Darth_Vampirius Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Skill? Since when does operating a bar with 4 powers ib it take skill? Skill? Since when does "not having to allocate talents" take skill? Skill? Since when does "not having to choose appropriate stats" take skill? PVP in 2.0 is the opposite of skill. Just roll up naked with no talents and 1-2 skills on your whole bar, and own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) Anyone who thinks the new bolster brings skill to the table is blind and was most likely terrible at pvp. You underestimate the power of not having to worry about gear, and having to worry about being outplayed by guilds and premades outgearing the playing field.. Yes Bolster has provided a comfort for those that worried about being outgeared but midnight heros. All people have to do now from 10-55 is get better, and not make excuses why they lose games. So yes Skill > ALL. Edited April 11, 2013 by Caeliux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SystemProcess Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Actually, Bolster did not teach anyone how to pass the ball in huttball, how to stealth ninja the opposing Pylon in Hypergate at the end of each round, or how to successfully call incs BEFORE the pylon is capped in Civil War. In fact, the abundance of terrible in WZs since 2.0 definitely proves the fact that Bolster didn't give anyone 'skill'. it just gave you the ability to deathmatch and survive, even if you're terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) Actually, Bolster did not teach anyone how to pass the ball in huttball, how to stealth ninja the opposing Pylon in Hypergate at the end of each round, or how to successfully call incs BEFORE the pylon is capped in Civil War. I don't disagree and your taking what I am saying outta context. I only stress on the point that Bolster outweighs geared players from 10-55 now so no twinks no more. There is no excuses now until 55 to suck at dps, healing, and tanking. If you are bad with the comfort Bolster has given all the classes then nothing will change, it is 10 times easier than it ever was. People better take what Bolster has given us and get better, and get skilled. Edited April 11, 2013 by Caeliux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren_simp Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I find the whole skill gear argument to be a joke, I mean players with talent always come out on top Gear is just a tool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) I mean players with talent always come out on top Gear is just a tool I am afraid in most mmos ( like Warcraft), that has not been the case. Even SWTOR started that type mentality when this game began with a Valor grind. The leaps and bounds from then and now with Bolster is going to change the outcome outta players, from level 10-55 gear won't matter in PVP. That means skill and paying attention to objectives will win games, not gear. At 55 sure outgearing the other team will make a difference, and that is fine that is how it should be in competitive PVP. It will be up to people at 55 to get geared and ready for ranked, so yes progression still exist in this game at endgame. Edited April 11, 2013 by Caeliux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren_simp Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Gear still matters I'm level 50 havent bought the xpac yet and in order to reach the full benefit of bolster I had to replace all wh mods armouring and enhancments with blue 50 mods etc from the correlia fleet vendor I have higher stats now than the average 54 player I'm seeing in wz's Edited April 12, 2013 by Ren_simp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaSWolf Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) I have a hard time understanding how anyone thinks the bolster system as-is is a good idea. Look, I've benefited from bolster quite a bit. I live a lot longer with a fairly organized team, do a quite a bit more damage, and get more killing blows than I did prior to 2.0. I just got my 6th piece of WH. I would guess I'm middle of the road, gear-wise. With bolster, it's basically tossing all the time these high-geared players have spent and tossed it out the window. People like to be rewarded for their time invested and this basically removes that incentive. Good example of bolster's problems: I was on a WF last night. I'm level 52 with my WH gear. I check out a level 50 Sent (I'm a Sent too, btw). With no armor on he has almost 4k more HP than me. He was also top damage at over 600k. With no armor!! I agree, he might have been really skilled. But with level 30s talking about hitting for more than 7k, it's actually punishing higher leveled players. I don't think I've ever crit for more then maybe 5.5k on a single hit. I want a system that somewhat narrows the gap from lowbie gear to decked out players. Something that would give me a chance, A CHANCE, to kill a high geared player, but I think this is the wrong way to go. Maybe have different tiers at 55. Say, players less than X amount of resilience in a different tier then those over. If you guys don't think gear shouldn't matter, lets make that true for PvE as well. I know I'd like to check out some of the end-game Ops without having to work for it. Edited April 12, 2013 by PaSWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 Gear still matters I'm level 50 havent bought the xpac yet and in order to reach the full benefit of bolster You are doing it wrong, you don't need gear till 55. Unless you didn't patch the game you don't need gear, unless you have EWH, which you only need to wear 4 to get your set bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 I have a hard time understanding how anyone thinks the bolster system as-is is a good idea. Look, I've benefited from bolster quite a bit. I live a lot longer with a fairly organized team, do a quite a bit more damage, and get more killing blows than I did prior to 2.0. I just got my 6th piece of WH. I would guess I'm middle of the road, gear-wise. With bolster, it's basically tossing all the time these high-geared players have spent and tossed it out the window. People like to be rewarded for their time invested and this basically removes that incentive. Good example of bolster's problems: I was on a WF last night. I'm level 52 with my WH gear. I check out a level 50 Sent (I'm a Sent too, btw). With no armor on he has almost 4k more HP than me. He was also top damage at over 600k. With no armor!! I agree, he might have been really skilled. But with level 30s talking about hitting for more than 7k, it's actually punishing higher leveled players. I don't think I've ever crit for more then maybe 5.5k on a single hit. I want a system that somewhat narrows the gap from lowbie gear from decked out players. Something that would give me a chance, A CHANCE, to kill a high geared player, but I think this is the wrong way to go. Maybe have different tiers at 55. Say, players less than X amount of resilience in a different tier then those over. If you guys don't think gear shouldn't matter, lets make that true for PvE as well. I know I'd like to check out some of the end-game Ops without having to work for it. I am not trying to be mean, but man the wall of text and lack of space bar is killing me. I won't read it until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren_simp Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) You are doing it wrong, you don't need gear till 55. Unless you didn't patch the game you don't need gear, unless you have EWH, which you only need to wear 4 to get your set bonus. With my current set up all 50 blue mods etc i have 26k hp 2300 main stat and 2008 expertise If I put my wh set on I have 20k hp 1800 main stat and 1300 exp Naked gives me 24k hp 1990 exp and 2100 main stat Edited April 12, 2013 by Ren_simp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 With my current set up all 50 blue mods etc i have 26k hp 2300 main stat and 2008 expertise If I put my wh set on I have 20k hp 1800 main stat and 1300 exp Instead of explaining it too ya, here is what Bioware has said about the current Bolster. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=622259 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaSWolf Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I am not trying to be mean, but man the wall of text and lack of space bar is killing me. I won't read it until then. Lack of space bar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariusCalera Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 That means skill and paying attention to objectives will win games, not gear. It was always like this, always. If you think it wasn't, then you were using the gear excuse to cover for inadequacies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren_simp Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Bolsters broken I'm just saying what I did to improve my stats from warhero By downgrading to blue mods etc, hopefully when its fixed I can go back to my wh set. But right now your gimping yourself by wearing anything with expertise in it. Edited April 12, 2013 by Ren_simp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 It was always like this, always. If you think it wasn't, then you were using the gear excuse to cover for inadequacies. Have you ever played PVP when people had BattleMaster and you had Champion gear? Have you had Recruit Gear where others had Warhero? Fact is there has always been a gear gap in this game, so now there is no excuses for that until 55. I don't have PVP inadequacies, I am talking about skill vs gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 the same people that were doing well pre 2.0 will keep doing well post 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 the same people that were doing well pre 2.0 will keep doing well post 2.0 I agree, I do think some will rise as good players will the comfort of this amazing Bolster powerup lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I agree, I do think some will rise as good players will the comfort of this amazing Bolster powerup lol. new to the game people, maybe. but anyone that was bad before is going to be bad now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Its going to change soon anyway so nice wasted thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripamorame Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) I do agree it is working on certain aspect i mean the bolster seems to be spot on for tanks low damage high mitigation high health but i do think 4k leaps and 8k finishers are a bit ott for low end pvp. It could be worse it could be frost mages in cata. Edited April 12, 2013 by ripamorame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren_simp Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I do agree it is working on certain aspect i mean the bolster seems to be spot on for tanks low damage high mitigation high health but i do think 4k leaps and 8k finishers are a bit ott for low end pvp. It could be worse it could be frost mages in cata. I'm liking it my scrapper would be worse than a frost mage none can escape, i don't even get a full rotation off before most players are dead Shoot first back blast sabotage charge and dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren_simp Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Edit double post phone lag :/ Edited April 12, 2013 by Ren_simp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akuryu Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) There are people right now testing and figuring out the exact gear combinations to get the most out of bolster. How is that any different from stat optimizing and min/maxing? Gear still matters. The only true way to eliminate gear as a consideration is just have everyone enter the warzone with the same exact stats, no matter what (ie 2000 of your main stat, 2000 expertise, etc). Not that I'm advocating this, I'm just saying that your point falls apart when there are others in the warzone with significantly lower stats than you. Edited April 12, 2013 by Akuryu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 There are people right now testing and figuring out the exact gear combinations to get the most out of bolster. How is that any different from stat optimizing and min/maxing? Gear still matters. The only true way to eliminate gear as a consideration is just have everyone enter the warzone with the same exact stats, no matter what (ie 2000 of your main stat, 2000 expertise, etc). This^^^ its the only way these clowns can say its about skill not gear until then these are just people exploiting a bug really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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