It's great to PVE with no Damage Meters

[TradewindNQ]

A pvp player even in world of warcraft does not require a dps meter at all in their gameplay. And yet they perform well based purely on the fact that their opponent is dead and thats all that matters.

 

Pve should focus on that philosophy and shed the chains that are dps meters. They are an unnessary meter, they merely allow players to literally cheat the game by allowing them to perfectly analyse their rotations and in most cases allow the user to google search best builds to take the challenge out of the game.

 

Dps meters = IDDQD. (doom 1 godmode activated)

 

I want to play the instance.

 

except in pvp you don't have steep dps requirements, enrage timers, "adds-ecution" or control phases nor the need to coordinate a large scale of players on an encounter...most pvp encounters are the same formula...burst down X...kill Y Z afterwards.

 

As for "cheat the game"...your remedial understanding of anything to do with PvE success is just astonishing.

[MeanMartian]

Nope.

 

It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid.

 

What's that? No response? It's ok.

 

I feel compelled to tell you that text doesn't work that way. Just because you typed out your post, and sat there staring at your screen waiting for an answer, doesn't mean anyone else actually saw your post. In fact, nobody saw your post to give a response until after you hit the 'submit reply' button at the bottom of your screen.

 

I've been in guilds where the GM assigned individual high performance players to tutor/assist those who were under performing.

[harkain]

Please stop projecting your own deficiencies upon the rest of us.

 

Tell me how do you tell which person in your raid group is doing sub par dps without a dps meter?

 

 

he did not say subpar dps he said "afk" aka standing still.

 

personally i learn the dps rotation for every class out there as a raid leader then i pay attention to players as individuals testing them out before i let them raid with me so i know they can preform to normal standards, just like we did in the old and better days. Then we simply trust ppl can preform what they already showed us they can preform in a larger setting and knowing mmo fights and especially raids is far more often about the ropadope and less about the punch.

 

that your in a zerg guild/andor rely on pugging is your problem not the games, weak spam recruiting guilds are not meant to be the premier option.

[ddayyy]

For me it's the exact opposite. I LOVED damage meters in WoW, since I was usually doing very well. It was great fun competing against the top guys, especially when you had lower gear. Without damage/healing meters raiding isn't as fun. It takes out a lot of the competitiveness of raiding which makes it more of a grind.

[Mxconway]

Nope.

 

It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid.

 

What's that? No response? It's ok.

 

Bound

WoW; Eonar server. [TBC-WotLK]

[Colobulous]

what is funny is every dam time all through beta people who want a DPS meter would through up a poll to prove that the majority wanted it. Yet somehow the polls always showed that the pro dps meter people were always the minority and by a wide margin.

 

Actually the widest margin I saw was about 5% and that was a poll that closed early.

 

Most were in the 2-3% range.

[Colobulous]

I would like a DPS meter, one that can not be linked. I want to know if im doing my part or not.

 

That's a silly objection, anybody can type whatever they can see on screen.

[Biscuitninja]

That's a silly objection, anybody can type whatever they can see on screen.

 

that you can...but I wouldn't trust your word over the tool. You can write you are doing 40K dps...but there is no proof.

[ageNtreachery]

Mods just start an arms race between operation devs and the mod maker and you end up with the situation where the average player is forced to use them or he is dead in the water because of the ridiculous lengths the devs have been driven to.

 

Hopefully they give us a combat log as that will allow people to look at their dps and boss mechanics but no mods or realtime meters. I also hope they dont write the log to file until combat is over so that people cant start the war by building apps that read the logs in realtime.

 

Games can balanced around people having limited info and BW has made a good start. Hopefully they continue.

[SilverBladeSith]

fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag.

 

what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware!

 

I whole heartedly agree. I feel that there are a couple of things that are terrible for MMO's.

 

1. DPS meters . Which you dont need in flashpoints cause there not hard and you will know when someons afk when they dont click on conversation. You dont need meters.

 

2. LFD. people always say they want this, but I am against it, it ruiined my server on wow.

[toferlee]

my dps sucks and i like afking plz don't add damage metters Edited December 22, 2011 by toferlee

[qqemokitty]

Nope.

 

It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid.

 

What's that? No response? It's ok.

 

how ridiculous. no wow guild i was ever in (casual to competitive over the course of 7 years) ever straight up gkicked someone over a damage meter.

 

combat logs are invaluable. they are a learning tool. as are damage meters.

 

if some people choose to spam them, well, bully for them. people spam regular chat all the time, does that mean we should remove the tool of "chat" from the game so you don't have to see it? nay.

Edited December 22, 2011 by qqemokitty

[qqemokitty]

I am baffled by the sheer volume of posts in this thread from people who don't want damage meters so they can be terrible and no one (themselves included) will know it.

 

Especially people interested in group play, from flashpoints to nightmare mode or w/e it's called. You'd rather just not know how anyone was doing in any quantifiable way so you can preserve an illusion that flailing your face across the keyboard is fine and dandy?

 

As always, I am very put off by that end of the spectrum. That "I can do whatever I want even if it's terrible because I am having fun and it doesn't matter to me that others are negatively impacted by my fun!" attitude is just. BLARGH.

 

If you want to faceroll and learn nothing on your own time, that is great and I welcome you to it. But don't do it while others (aka a group) is depending on you.

[gallbi]

I am baffled by the sheer volume of posts in this thread from people who don't want damage meters so they can be terrible and no one (themselves included) will know it.

 

Especially people interested in group play, from flashpoints to nightmare mode or w/e it's called. You'd rather just not know how anyone was doing in any quantifiable way so you can preserve an illusion that flailing your face across the keyboard is fine and dandy?

 

As always, I am very put off by that end of the spectrum. That "I can do whatever I want even if it's terrible because I am having fun and it doesn't matter to me that others are negatively impacted by my fun!" attitude is just. BLARGH.

 

If you want to faceroll and learn nothing on your own time, that is great and I welcome you to it. But don't do it while others (aka a group) is depending on you.

 

Well said. Except any logical explanation doesn't go the distance considering 90% of the idiots on these forums are teens.

[Revonx]

Probably said 1000 times already

 

I want damage meters cause:

 

I don't want to play with bums

I want people to play the game and not AFK

I don't want bad people raiding

As a tank it will make my job easier to tank mobs that are dead faster

 

Damage meter = Mobs dead faster

 

Many people out there think they're putting out some good damage.

[Aryzyra]

Soloing without damage meters is ok, though it would be more interesting if I could see what my abilities are actually doing. Soloing without a combat log is.. ok as long as there's nothing challenging.

 

Grouping without a damage meter or log feels wrong. Huge knowledge void.

[Skeelol]

he did not say subpar dps he said "afk" aka standing still.

 

personally i learn the dps rotation for every class out there as a raid leader then i pay attention to players as individuals testing them out before i let them raid with me so i know they can preform to normal standards, just like we did in the old and better days. Then we simply trust ppl can preform what they already showed us they can preform in a larger setting and knowing mmo fights and especially raids is far more often about the ropadope and less about the punch.

 

that your in a zerg guild/andor rely on pugging is your problem not the games, weak spam recruiting guilds are not meant to be the premier option.

 

That's the recipe for a subpar guild. Plenty of those out there.

[Petyl]

Nope.

 

It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid.

 

What's that? No response? It's ok.

 

It's each persons personal responsibility to learn their class... if they don't care to take the time to learn, then why should others care to want them in their raid?

[Skeelol]

It's each persons personal responsibility to learn their class... if they don't care to take the time to learn, then why should others care to want them in their raid?

 

Exactly.

 

Even without dps meters you can still see how bad some people are.

 

Example : tanked mandalorian raiders on my alt and barely managed every fight because it took ages for mobs to die (Clearly the dps thought they were doing a good job!)

 

After which i respecced back to assassin dps, invited my sorc friend and got in another group. Needless to say stuff died so fast it was unreal.

 

Imagine the number differences between the dps in those 2 groups.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Skeelol

[ecint]

I will toss this into the void, not that it will do any good at all...

 

Damage meters have their plus and minus sides. Most of the plusses are game-mechanic aids. Most of the minuses are social in nature. Both sides have valid points, though neither seems willing to recognize that.

 

True: It is quite possible to play well without a damage (or heal, or threat) meter. However, if used properly, it is easier to improve your play with one.

 

Once upon a time, it was actually unheard of for people to group (and guild) with folks for more difficult content with whom they had not already grouped for 'easier' stuff. By the time you were doing the hard content, each and every person on the harder effort had been tested, approved, and/or vetted on numerous occasions. There was never a question or worry of anyone not doing their job, those who didn't measure up had long since been weeded out.

I will suggest that when you do smaller group content, a single group dungeon (flashpoint) for example, it is VERY easy to figure out who is screwing up, and then that person either learns, or never gets into the guild.

I will refrain from commenting on what is and is not difficult content (or a difficult game).

 

These days, most guilds recruiting policy seem to be either an unsolicited and spur-of-the-moment guild invite, or a quick tell asking if somebody would be interested. Some, admittedly, do make screening their invitees a higher priority, but most do not.

 

And yes, I've raided in multiple games, mostly WoW and DAoC.

Edited December 22, 2011 by ecint

[WarTornPanda]

The simple fact that you can choose not to use damage meters makes it so that there is absolutely no reason not to include them.

 

Not liking damage meters and demanding they not be in the game is just as stupid as not liking PvE and asking it to be removed from the game or vice versa.

[ITSAmeee]

an MMO without combat logs? really? Maybe I should go back to WoW, but you guys should go back to play Pong. Just saying.

[Canuck_TwnTNN]

What are these damage meters you speak of?

 

Is it purely a WoW thing?

 

I've got active accounts in EvE and AoC and CO and STO and ... but aside from some information when you hover over items that tell you what your DPS will be, I have no idea what people are talking about.

 

Cheers!

Inquisitive_Canuck

 

ps - I am beginning to be more and more happy with the fact that I have never WoWed and therefore, am baggage free coming into SWTOR.

[ITSAmeee]

What are these damage meters you speak of?

Is it purely a WoW thing?

 

Combat Log parsers. They can be ingame or out of game. The ingame ones would require Addons.

 

What they do is to read the combat log, check damage (and MANY other things that happen around you) and calculate it (sums) constantly, giving you an idea (more or less accurate) of your damage output.

 

You cast Skill1

You do 558 dmg to Enemy1

You cast Skill4

You do 274 dmg to Enemy 1,2,3

You cast

you do dmg

 

bla bla

 

sums up the dmg and tell you how much dmg you are doing. DPS = Damage per Second (so you divide damage output / time).

 

Damage is only one minimal part of what the Combat log in theory shows, so Combat Log parsers can show you in a more convenient way (usually colored bars) what a combat log shows in plain (wall of) text.

 

 

EDIT: basically the combat log, if activate and if it is a good one, shows you in a text format EVERYTHING that happens on a fight. A good parser would show that VERY SAME info to you in a less spammy way. Just imagine the combat log as an Excel sheet, and a parser as a Graph created with all those cells and numbers. Roughly this.

Edited December 22, 2011 by ITSAmeee

[LordSatoh]

an MMO without combat logs? really? Maybe I should go back to WoW, but you guys should go back to play Pong. Just saying.

 

Go back to wow and I'll stay here cause I like it a lot.

 

Kthxbye.