It's great to PVE with no Damage Meters

[Caelrie]

Dear person,

 

As you may or may not be fully aware this is a video game, meant to be played as leisurely enjoyment. Indeed, we are not actually fighting a war nor are we working.

 

Signed,

Sanity.

 

Actually, games are meant to be played however players want to play them, not only how you do.

[ironix]

THIS!!!

 

And you're right. Of WoW's 11.1 million subscribers less than 14% raid end game - many whom I have found possessing some insatiably greedy desire to own everything they see. The best raiders apply keen awareness, feel, timing, patience and teamwork. There is nothing digitally enhanced about it. So I too have enjoyed successful PvEing (through Hammer) without needing a damage meter.

 

You do realize it is possible to cater to both people like you AND end-game raiders. Damage meters will not prevent you from playing and enjoying the game in your own way.

[EllipticSmile]

As much as I used them in WoW I'm enjoying not having one. Hope it stays this way. And to the person claiming "How will you know when people are AFK?" how about you learn some awareness and pay attention to the people around you.

[Bigguyonarock]

Dear person,

 

As you may or may not be fully aware this is a video game, meant to be played as leisurely enjoyment. Indeed, we are not actually fighting a war nor are we working.

 

Signed,

Sanity.

 

Dear Sanity,

 

You're right. This is a game. But it's also one you're playing with other people. Other people want to have fun as well, and most of the time that doesn't include being sandbagged by people unwilling or incapable of playing the game properly.

 

We yelled at the kid who walked to the endzone with the ball during Flag Football in P.E. back in Elementary School. We'll probably do it again.

 

Sincerely,

Your Conscience.

[Viera]

Actually, games are meant to be played however players want to play them, not only how you do.

 

If at some point you are comparing a video game to working, you are doing it wrong. Sorry.

[Rhinoplat]

How can you optimize your damage output if you don't even know what it is. Damage meters are there to show slackers and baddies.

 

If you can kill something you know your damage is good, if you can't kill it, then you need to improve. It's way more simple that people are making it to be.

 

I hate the idea of damage meters. I've never played a game that has them (to my knowledge) and I would never want one in SWTOR. I would rather have 3 average DPS players that can think and act on their feet, compared to a high DPS that stands still and dies because they are too stubborn to flow with the fight.

 

Coordination between players is greater than knowing someones epeen high DPS.

[songofprecept]

I'd still like to know how well I am contributing to the group of people I play with... I trust them to hold themselves accountable, I'd like to do the same for myself.

 

Did boss die? Did you collect loot?

 

Accountability is for real life.

[Xolhardal]

Nope.

 

It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid.

 

What's that? No response? It's ok.

 

Mine....Turmoil, Sith Empire, Dreshdae Cantina

Edited December 21, 2011 by Xolhardal

[Caelrie]

If at some point you are comparing a video game to working, you are doing it wrong. Sorry.

 

That's how some people like playing. Who are you to tell them they can't play that way?

[Bigguyonarock]

If you can kill something you know your damage is good, if you can't kill it, then you need to improve. It's way more simple that people are making it to be.

 

I hate the idea of damage meters. I've never played a game that has them (to my knowledge) and I would never want one in SWTOR. I would rather have 3 average DPS players that can think and act on their feet, compared to a high DPS that stands still and dies because they are too stubborn to flow with the fight.

 

Coordination between players is greater than knowing someones epeen high DPS.

 

I'd rather have a high dps player who can think and act on their feet, rather just an everage one.

 

Being good at performing your role and being good at doing everything else aren't mutually exclusive.

[Viera]

Dear Sanity,

 

You're right. This is a game. But it's also one you're playing with other people. Other people want to have fun as well, and most of the time that doesn't include being sandbagged by people unwilling or incapable of playing the game properly.

 

We yelled at the kid who walked to the endzone with the ball during Flag Football in P.E. back in Elementary School. We'll probably do it again.

 

Sincerely,

Your Conscience.

 

Dear Conscience,

 

True. But if you are so concerned with playing with other people who are 'good' and who share the idea that a video game should be 'work' and that there is only one proper way to do anything. 'You' should join a guild full of likeminded individuals, and play with them, as opposed to trying to force your desires on everyone else and then telling them to suck it up or make a guild called 'casually casual'.

 

Contrary to belief, a majority of the games players are probably casual and probably honestly do not care how hard you are raging because they are not playing their class the way you want them too. That is the way the cookie crumbles, sadly. If you want hardcore raiders, find likeminded poeple and guild up. Prolly the only way you'll ever enjoy your game.

 

Signed,

Sanity

[Caelrie]

I dunno why this thread exists anyway. Metering tools for players are on the way, as SWTOR's lead dev loves them and thinks it's a good idea for players to have access to that data.

 

DPS meters are coming, whether you want them or not.

[Frostvein]

Dear person,

 

As you may or may not be fully aware this is a video game, meant to be played as leisurely enjoyment. Indeed, we are not actually fighting a war nor are we working.

 

Signed,

Sanity.

 

 

This is fine. However, my idea of fun is downing difficult encounters. I will not be able to down my difficult encounter if everyone isn't pulling their weight. I will not be able to know if I or others are doing what we/they are or are not supposed to be doing without a combat log/recount like addon.

 

Ergo, while you don't need one for your enjoyment of the game, I do. Why is your form of enjoyment more important then mine?

[Yfelsung]

Did boss die? Did you collect loot?

 

Accountability is for real life.

 

Do you understand the concept of pushing oneself to a state of excellent in all things?

 

When you do something, anything, do you not feel the need to dominate it? To be better than others at it?

 

Do you not feel the pull of the need of conquest, even in something as trivial as a game?

 

It's called having a competitive nature.

[Hytamo]

I don't like carrying baddies that do not want to learn. If I give them advice after I notice them doing blah and they tell me I'm dumb, they're out. That is why I want meters. Also they provide a way for me to better myself. ATM I don't know if I am good or bad!

[ironix]

Yes, of course it is. Nothing at all to do with dick swinging and bullying other players. Oh no.

 

Given this is the general sentiment of the against crowed, you must have all had bad raiding experiences or something. You must have mostly run with random pugs, the dregs of the server.

 

In my raids, we use damage meters as a simple analysis tool. We don't post them, we feel no need. We enjoy each other's company and have a lot of fun progressing through heroic content. When we bring a new applicant into the group, we use the meters and detailed log analysis to assess their performance and offer advice as to how they can improve if they need to. If they don't improve, they aren't accepted to the group.

 

There's no yelling at them or bullying involved. It's a rather civil and logical process. Please stop using your experience with jerks and douche-bag raid leaders as an excuse to dump on those of us who want access to a reasonable tool.

[Viera]

That's how some people like playing. Who are you to tell them they can't play that way?

 

I never said that they can't play that way.

 

But keep in mind these are people dictating to others, demanding they play their class the way they want them too. So you argument to me is ironic, because you're chastising me for the exact same thing they're just going to do with their meters and rambling on about why this nation is soft and hold people accountable.

[Caelrie]

I never said that they can't play that way.

 

But keep in mind these are people dictating to others, demanding they play their class the way they want them too. So you argument to me is ironic, because you're chastising me for the exact same thing they're just going to do with their meters and rambling on about why this nation is soft and hold people accountable.

 

You're misrepresenting their position. They're telling you that you have to be good in order to be in their group. Being in their group is optional, and thus nobody is dictating anything to you.

[Yfelsung]

I never said that they can't play that way.

 

But keep in mind these are people dictating to others, demanding they play their class the way they want them too. So you argument to me is ironic, because you're chastising me for the exact same thing they're just going to do with their meters and rambling on about why this nation is soft and hold people accountable.

 

But you do not have to play with those people.

 

So why limit their gameplay? Give them DPS meters, then just don't group with people who use them.

 

Problem solved.

[Bigguyonarock]

Did boss die? Did you collect loot?

 

Accountability is for real life.

 

Yea... which you're still in. You know those avatars moving around and killing the boss for you while you pick your nose?

 

Yea those are real people who come home after school/work and want to relax.

 

I get it though. You want to play the game how you want to play it. You like those talents the way you put them, you like spamming that one ability until you run out of energy in the first 8 seconds of the fight.

 

Good man, play however you want. But you shouldn't act surprised when other people don't want to play with you.

 

Me? I'm going to play with the same people I've been playing with for years. I like those guys, they're cool. So when we do group stuff together, I'd like to make sure I'm not being an ******e to my friends and making them compensate for any underperformance on my part.

[Viera]

But you do not have to play with those people.

 

So why limit their gameplay? Give them DPS meters, then just don't group with people who use them.

 

Problem solved.

 

Why limit everybody elses gameplay by adding DPS meters? Why add a feature that just caters to a certain group of people when a bunch others dont?

 

 

Boy it'll be so much fun once SWTOR becomes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04

 

And by that logic, why can't they just group with other HARDCORE RAIDZ people, instead of demanding a DPS meter? Seriously. That argument is two ways.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Viera

[Yfelsung]

Why limit everybody elses gameplay by adding DPS meters? Why add a feature that just caters to a certain group of people when a bunch others dont?

 

 

Boy it'll be so much fun once SWTOR becomes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04

 

But YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE THAT FEATURE.

 

So having it DOESN'T LIMIT YOUR PLAY.

 

Letting someone have something they want that you don't want is NEVER a limitation to you.

 

You may not like alcohol, I do, if I drink that's not limiting your lifestyle choice.

 

Similarly, if I use DPS meters, that IN NO WAY limits you.

 

Come on guys, a little common sense and decency here.

[ironix]

If you can kill something you know your damage is good, if you can't kill it, then you need to improve. It's way more simple that people are making it to be.

 

I hate the idea of damage meters. I've never played a game that has them (to my knowledge) and I would never want one in SWTOR. I would rather have 3 average DPS players that can think and act on their feet, compared to a high DPS that stands still and dies because they are too stubborn to flow with the fight.

 

Coordination between players is greater than knowing someones epeen high DPS.

 

First of all, you do realize that saying "high DPS that stands still and dies" is an oxymoron right? If they die, they will NOT TOP THE BLOODY DAMAGE METERS ANYHOW.

 

Secondly, if your metric is only "did it die? Good." then why have any numbers displayed at all? Lets get rid of the numbers that appear when you damage something. Replace them with "Hit" and "Crit!" You can also replace a healer's output with "Healed!" and "Crit Healed!" Would that make you happy?

[Caelrie]

Why limit everybody elses gameplay by adding DPS meters? Why add a feature that just caters to a certain group of people when a bunch others dont?

 

 

Boy it'll be so much fun once SWTOR becomes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04

 

And by that logic, why can't they just group with other HARDCORE RAIDZ people, instead of demanding a DPS meter? Seriously. That argument is two ways.

 

Your argument doesn't actually make any sense. A DPS meter is required for their playstyle because they want to streamline their characters to the maximum potential. You don't have to use it, and you don't have to group with them. Nothing is being forced on you.

[SooperDaive]

I dunno why this thread exists anyway. Metering tools for players are on the way, as SWTOR's lead dev loves them and thinks it's a good idea for players to have access to that data.

 

DPS meters are coming, whether you want them or not.

 

Source on this? I saw the video where the devs were indicating that addons and their implementation were being discussed internally and whatever the result ended up being, it would be post launch before changes were made. I haven't seen anything else (but would like to) if metric tools were discussed specifically.