Thekk Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yes and please keep the damage meters out! We don't need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilTikiBoy Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yes and please keep the damage meters out! I don't want them. fix'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noxveritas Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 People DO remember the high dps. In other MMO's I would always take the higher dps people over the others. I'm competitive and I like to down content as fast as possible. Like any other MMO, DPS is important and in high level progression content you will want the best you can get. Anyone who has wiped to an enrage timer knows this. Without some type of meter how will you know who is pulling their weight? If someone is slacking and holding up progression you need to know who it is so that the issue can be resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teront Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Nope. It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid. What's that? No response? It's ok. I was an officer/raid leader in a Heroic raid group. One of our people had major issues when we first started raiding. (how did we know? meters)I mean dps was lower than both tanks. Someone else in our guild with the same class took about 30 minutes with that person looking over spec rotation bla bla. That person is now and has been top 2 or 3 dps in our group for over 8 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yes and please keep the damage meters out! We don't need them. You're right, we don't need them, we want them. Just because you don't want something doesn't mean you should dictate that we also can't have it. Unless you'd like me to start applying that thought process to just about everything and we can discuss how terrible this world would be if no one could eat meat because vegetarians don't want it, or that no one can get married because "group x" doesn't want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dierepublic Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Yes its so much nicer without damage meters. No one is accusing me of standing around anymore and i can cast what ever i want now without people yelling at me. Edited December 21, 2011 by dierepublic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geotar Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 1. Though there's no dm to care about, i experienced that people still stand in the "fire" and die. -.- 2. When the story-part of the game is over and you played one or two alts, what will you do? Get the best gear for my spec and be happy, when i improve. How do you know that you got better without a damage meter? Ok, you managed to kill the boss or maybe did it faster than the last time, but maybe that was only the other players doing better? I want a damage meter. So far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terko_Koslah Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yes and please keep the damage meters out! We don't need them. For those that don't understand: We in this post means those people who don't want damage meters. Just to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilTikiBoy Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 For those that don't understand: We in this post means those people who don't want damage meters. Just to clarify. so because you dont want them, the rest of us cant have them? selfish much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPeterNorth Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I hope Bioware just let the game as it is. IN time addon addicts will desintoxicate (does this word exist?) and actually find it fun to play the game without 3rd party programs help. Give it a few months with the game in this situation and hey will achieve the same stuff in their raids. Then they will realize they just never needed those addons to succeed while it made them better players by thinking for themselves and overcoming obstacles. They will be able recognize a bad player just by watching how they play instead of doing math with recount and whatnot. It will create a much healthier place for everyone. Edited December 21, 2011 by DarthPeterNorth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noxveritas Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yes its so much nicer without damage meters. No one is accusing me of standing around anymore and i can cast what ever i want now without people yelling at me. ^This is exactly why we need meters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I hope Bioware just let the game as it is. IN time addon addicts will desintoxicate (does this word exist?) and actually find it fun to play the game without 3rd party programs help. Give it a few months with the game in this situation and hey will achieve the same stuff in their raids. Then they will realize they just never needed those addons to succeed while it made them better players by thinking for themselves and overcoming obstacles. They will be able recognize a bad player just by watching how they play instead of doing math with recount and whatnot. It will create a much healthier place for everyone. This is completely untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I hope Bioware just let the game as it is. IN time addon addicts will desintoxicate (does this word exist?) and actually find it fun to play the game without 3rd party programs help. Give it a few months with the game in this situation and hey will achieve the same stuff in their raids. Then they will realize they just never needed those addons to succeed while it made them better players by thinking for themselves and overcoming obstacles. They will be able recognize a bad player just by watching how they play instead of doing math with recount and whatnot. It will create a much healthier place for everyone. How can you recognize a bad player just by watching? Apart from the player standing around and doing NOTHING, explain how you'd see this? Of course there's the 'don't stand in fire' thing, but that's simply obvious to anyone who watches the group's health (i.e. the healer). So again, if I, as say a Concealment Operative, were to simply spam corrosive dart on the boss until I'm completely out of energy and throw in some rifle shots now and then, how could you tell? You'll see my character doing stuff, moving around, casting abilities, but you won't know WHAT I'm casting (they're mostly all instant). No. There is nothing about damage meters that will hamper your ability to have fun in this game. You can group with people who don't use them! Form a guild <Casually Casual> and enjoy the content at your own pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallowyr Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Combat log = unofficial skada/recount type of addon. The end. Depends. Most combat logs I've seen only record your own personal damage meaning it is not the same as a Recount style damage meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malkosha Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 How can you recognize a bad player just by watching? Apart from the player standing around and doing NOTHING, explain how you'd see this? Of course there's the 'don't stand in fire' thing, but that's simply obvious to anyone who watches the group's health (i.e. the healer). So again, if I, as say a Concealment Operative, were to simply spam corrosive dart on the boss until I'm completely out of energy and throw in some rifle shots now and then, how could you tell? You'll see my character doing stuff, moving around, casting abilities, but you won't know WHAT I'm casting (they're mostly all instant). No. There is nothing about damage meters that will hamper your ability to have fun in this game. You can group with people who don't use them! Form a guild <Casually Casual> and enjoy the content at your own pace. That's just it. There is no way to tell if a player is bad or not. No way to tell if a player lives up to your expectations or not. No way to blame a wipe on someone. No way to take control of a players char by telling them how to play, how to spec, what to do. For every elitist out there, I'm willing to wager there are many MANY more who are so disgusted with the mini-generals who try to control you that they simply stopped playing end-game content. Luckily, with SWTOR, it not an issue. Lets hope BW doesn't cater to these people and bring the game down to their level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) That's just it. There is no way to tell if a player is bad or not. No way to tell if a player lives up to your expectations or not. No way to blame a wipe on someone. No way to take control of a players char by telling them how to play, how to spec, what to do. For every elitist out there, I'm willing to wager there are many MANY more who are so disgusted with the mini-generals who try to control you that they simply stopped playing end-game content. Luckily, with SWTOR, it not an issue. Lets hope BW doesn't cater to these people and bring the game down to their level. You don't raid anything even moderately difficult, nor do you ever plan to, do you? EDIT: You do know if you're in a guild with people who's company you enjoy, it is actually possible to analyze combat log data AND have fun while raiding? Not everyone's raid experience is as horrible as yours obviously was. Edited December 21, 2011 by ironix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 That's just it. There is no way to tell if a player is bad or not. No way to tell if a player lives up to your expectations or not. No way to blame a wipe on someone. No way to take control of a players char by telling them how to play, how to spec, what to do. For every elitist out there, I'm willing to wager there are many MANY more who are so disgusted with the mini-generals who try to control you that they simply stopped playing end-game content. Luckily, with SWTOR, it not an issue. Lets hope BW doesn't cater to these people and bring the game down to their level. Having that guy standing behind you with the gun against your head must make it hard to play. Having a guy demanding you play with people who don't fit your play style must really be distracting. Plus that uncomfortable feeling of cold metal against your skull. Must be terrible having that guy always there, always forcing you to join guilds that use dps meters and such. It's too bad you couldn't get rid of that guy and just play with people who share your play style. Too bad indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Having that guy standing behind you with the gun against your head must make it hard to play. Having a guy demanding you play with people who don't fit your play style must really be distracting. Plus that uncomfortable feeling of cold metal against your skull. Must be terrible having that guy always there, always forcing you to join guilds that use dps meters and such. It's too bad you couldn't get rid of that guy and just play with people who share your play style. Too bad indeed. /giggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 That's just it. There is no way to tell if a player is bad or not. No way to tell if a player lives up to your expectations or not. No way to blame a wipe on someone. No way to take control of a players char by telling them how to play, how to spec, what to do. I blame this kind of response on society. The "Everyone wins, no one loses, and the people who lose didn't do anything wrong" mantra is part of the reason why we are becoming soft as a nation. You need to learn in early life that in everything you do, you need to carry your own weight. If you aren't doing your job in an acceptable manner, then its not ok. Some form of Recount/Combat logs are for those who want to ensure that they are doing everything they possibly can to ensure the raid is successful. If you aren't willing to change what you want to do or how you want to do it for the greater good of the group, then you shouldn't be in that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songofprecept Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Do you people only ever group with total strangers? Group with ppl you know dps meters dont matter then. Unreal, mmo go out socialise , what are you lepers?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viera Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I blame this kind of response on society. The "Everyone wins, no one loses, and the people who lose didn't do anything wrong" mantra is part of the reason why we are becoming soft as a nation. You need to learn in early life that in everything you do, you need to carry your own weight. If you aren't doing your job in an acceptable manner, then its not ok. Some form of Recount/Combat logs are for those who want to ensure that they are doing everything they possibly can to ensure the raid is successful. If you aren't willing to change what you want to do or how you want to do it for the greater good of the group, then you shouldn't be in that group. Dear person, As you may or may not be fully aware this is a video game, meant to be played as leisurely enjoyment. Indeed, we are not actually fighting a war nor are we working. Signed, Sanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) That's just it. There is no way to tell if a player is bad or not. No way to tell if a player lives up to your expectations or not. No way to blame a wipe on someone. No way to take control of a players char by telling them how to play, how to spec, what to do. For every elitist out there, I'm willing to wager there are many MANY more who are so disgusted with the mini-generals who try to control you that they simply stopped playing end-game content. Luckily, with SWTOR, it not an issue. Lets hope BW doesn't cater to these people and bring the game down to their level. THIS!!! And you're right. Of WoW's 11.1 million subscribers less than 14% raid end game - many whom I have found possessing some insatiably greedy desire to own everything they see. The best raiders apply keen awareness, feel, timing, patience and teamwork. There is nothing digitally enhanced about it. So I too have enjoyed successful PvEing (through Hammer) without needing or wanting a damage meter. Edited December 21, 2011 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigguyonarock Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Do you people only ever group with total strangers? Group with ppl you know dps meters dont matter then. Unreal, mmo go out socialise , what are you lepers?! I'd still like to know how well I am contributing to the group of people I play with... I trust them to hold themselves accountable, I'd like to do the same for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigoldbear Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I want a damage meter. It has nothing to do with linking it so that everyone knows i'm the best, and everything to do with knowing who which of our 4 raid healers isn't healing, so we can teach him. Nightmare mode raiding will be rough Yes, of course it is. Nothing at all to do with dick swinging and bullying other players. Oh no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Do you people only ever group with total strangers? Group with ppl you know dps meters dont matter then. Unreal, mmo go out socialise , what are you lepers?! Their usual excuse is "I try, but no one responds to me." What this means is that their "attempt" was "LFG (dungeon)" and when they got in the group they said "hi" and then probably followed up with the grammatical equivalent of a 3rd term abortion. Something like "Hai guyz did u c dancing with stars last nite lol". Or some equally asinine comment about some sports team I don't care about. It's amazing that I've seen people claim an MMO is antisocial while I've had to make an alt to hold extra friends as my friend list would fill up. But you'll find the above kind of person are the ones AGAINST damage meters, as they're the social equivalent of a rock, so their only value is their number output. As a social person, I love damage meters to test my skills and if I do bad, I'm not defined by my damage output in an MMO. Yeah, some 14 year old might insult me for having low damage. I could crush their throat with a single hand until the life faded from their eyes, their opinion on my damage output is of little concern to me. Generally, the opinion of someone that you can kill with your bare hands isn't worth the words it took to speak the opinion. Opinions only matter when you can beat them into someone. Edited December 21, 2011 by Yfelsung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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