The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 04: Shaak Ti vs. Luminara Unduli

[Wolfninjajedi]

Look again: it says she's considered one of the finest duelists in the Order. I even bolded it.

 

Yes I know....being a fine duelist, doesn't make her an expert. Just that she has great skill with a blade, its stated as such that she is just well versed in saber combat, that isn't where her strength lies so it doesn't really matter that she needs to be an expert duelist.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Kilikaa]

Yes I know....being a fine duelist, doesn't make her an expert. Just that she has great skill with a blade, its stated as such that she is just well versed in saber combat, that isn't where her strength lies so it doesn't really matter that she needs to be an expert duelist.

 

Ti is an expert in saberr combat. She is well versed in ALL the forms, the exception being Vaapad. She is much better than you give her credit for. Her main forms are Makashi and Ataru. Plain and simple, she is one of the best duelists the Order had at that time.

[YoshiRaphElan]

Yes I know....being a fine duelist, doesn't make her an expert. Just that she has great skill with a blade, its stated as such that she is just well versed in saber combat.

 

I will accept that, but if you're falling on the old Tartakovsky interpretation of Luminara's skills, you must look at the Tartakovsky depiction of Shaak Ti, as well. She singlehandedly took on a team of MagnaGuards using her own lightsaber and, later, one of their own electrostaffs, even using both the staff and saber in tandem. While this show does exaggerate skill, I think the relative abilities remain the same. Sure, Shaak Ti didn't hold out long against Grievous in the show...but would Luminara have?

[Wolfninjajedi]

I will accept that, but if you're falling on the old Tartakovsky interpretation of Luminara's skills, you must look at the Tartakovsky depiction of Shaak Ti, as well. She singlehandedly took on a team of MagnaGuards using her own lightsaber and, later, one of their own electrostaffs, even using both the staff and saber in tandem. While this show does exaggerate skill, I think the relative abilities remain the same. Sure, Shaak Ti didn't hold out long against Grievous in the show...but would Luminara have?

 

I wasn't using Tartakovsky depictions at all. But no she wouldn't, Grevious was so stupidly OP in that show.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[YoshiRaphElan]

I wasn't using Tartakovsky depictions at all. But no she wouldn't, Grevious was so stupidly OP in that show.

 

Well, what are you going by then? She only fought in one episode of TCW and very few of the comics (and in the comics she fought only a few droids and mercenaries). Shaak Ti in TCW, on the other hand, only fought two droids. Total. That's not a fair judge of power. If Shaak Ti fought Ventress she'd ROFL-stomp her, IMO, based on her skill in the TFU novel. And IMO, Luminara can't adapt. She's dogmatic, as evidenced when she treated Ahsoka as more a Temple-grade youngling than a somewhat battle-experienced Padawan. Ahsoka even fought Ventress before and gave Luminara advice, yet Luminara ignored her and went in as if she knew best. Whereas Shaak Ti was known to be intelligent and adaptable. (Also, and this is just speculation, but if Luminara hadn't been in ROTS and the show hadn't been so kid-friendly in Season 1, I think Ventress would have killed Luminara–again, assuming Luminara wasn't in ROTS–just to show Ventress as a threat). So in a drawn-out fight, Luminara would likely continue dogmatically on doing the same thing, while Shaak Ti would adapt to Luminara's strategy and take her down.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well, what are you going by then? She only fought in one episode of TCW and very few of the comics (and in the comics she fought only a few droids and mercenaries). Shaak Ti in TCW, on the other hand, only fought two droids. Total. That's not a fair judge of power. If Shaak Ti fought Ventress she'd ROFL-stomp her, IMO, based on her skill in the TFU novel. And IMO, Luminara can't adapt. She's dogmatic, as evidenced when she treated Ahsoka as more a Temple-grade youngling than a somewhat battle-experienced Padawan. Ahsoka even fought Ventress before and gave Luminara advice, yet Luminara ignored her and went in as if she knew best. Whereas Shaak Ti was known to be intelligent and adaptable. (Also, and this is just speculation, but if Luminara hadn't been in ROTS and the show hadn't been so kid-friendly in Season 1, I think Ventress would have killed Luminara–again, assuming Luminara wasn't in ROTS–just to show Ventress as a threat). So in a drawn-out fight, Luminara would likely continue dogmatically on doing the same thing, while Shaak Ti would adapt to Luminara's strategy and take her down.

 

As said in my 1st post, not having well knowledge on either of these characters so am just going by what is posted on the wiki. Never even said who I thought would win.

[YoshiRaphElan]

As said in my 1st post, not having well knowledge on either of these characters so am just going by what is posted on the wiki. Never even said who I thought would win.

 

Oh, I know, I was just trying to gauge your reading on Luminara's abilities. I'm not trying to argue with you; I'm enjoying this debate. Just wondering.

 

Also, I am very surprised–as relatively obscure and unused as these two characters are, this is some seriously awesome debate going on.

[marcelo_sdk]

By wookieepedia and their reputation, the two are even, so we have to see what they done in battle.

 

Luminara was nearly killed by Asajj Ventress, a skilled Jar'Kai fighter, a powerful opponent no doubt.

 

Shaak Ti was nearly killed by Grievous, ok, but we know that his uncommon style gave trouble to almost all Jedi, including Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, all among the greates of the order at the time. And year later, obviously stronger and with a battleground that favored her greatly, needed to be pointed out. But his opponent was Galen Marek, the man who defeated Rahm Kota, Darth Vader and Darth Sidious, perhaps the most powerful Force-user of all times. That's just definitive for me to give the victory to the Togruta master.

[Wolfninjajedi]

By wookieepedia and their reputation, the two are even, so we have to see what they done in battle.

 

Luminara was nearly killed by Asajj Ventress, a skilled Jar'Kai fighter, a powerful opponent no doubt.

 

Shaak Ti was nearly killed by Grievous, ok, but we know that his uncommon style gave trouble to almost all Jedi, including Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, all among the greates of the order at the time. And year later, obviously stronger and with a battleground that favored her greatly, needed to be pointed out. But his opponent was Galen Marek, the man who defeated Rahm Kota, Darth Vader and Darth Sidious, perhaps the most powerful Force-user of all times. That's just definitive for me to give the victory to the Togruta master.

 

HELL NO. Galen never beat Sidious, and he certainly isn't the most powerful or even one of the most powerful force users at all. His actual canon self, is really just a good force user nothing really poor but nothing really special either.

[marcelo_sdk]

HELL NO. Galen never beat Sidious, and he certainly isn't the most powerful or even one of the most powerful force users at all. His actual canon self, is really just a good force user nothing really poor but nothing really special either.

 

How he did not beat Sidious? I don't understand that Sidiousmania that some people have. When Windu defeated him, he let him win to facilitate Anakin's fall (don't see the logic in that, but that's not the point). And with Marek, what's the excuse? You think he just kneel, so Marek could strike him down and join the Sith? The price of that would be his own life, do you think Palpatine would think like that?

Edited April 12, 2013 by marcelo_sdk

[YoshiRaphElan]

How he did not beat Sidious? I don't understand that Sidiousmania that some people have. When Windu defeated him, he let him win to facilitate Anakin's fall (don't see the logic in that, but that's not the point). And with Marek, what's the excuse? You think he just kneel, so Marek could strike him down and join the Sith? The price of that would be his own life, do you think Palpatine would think like that?

 

Read the Force Unleashed novel; novel trumps gameplay. In the novel all Galen did was knock Sidious over to stop him from lightning-ing Kota. He didn't even fight him, just gave him a smack on the rump and then cue his raising of his lightsaber blade and Kota says, "He's beaten, let it go," like in the cutscene. They never fought, not even once. So basically yes, he did just kneel (well not really, but basically), but he would have blasted Galen if Galen tried to kill him. Palpatine was never at risk, period.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Read the Force Unleashed novel; novel trumps gameplay. In the novel all Galen did was knock Sidious over to stop him from lightning-ing Kota. He didn't even fight him, just gave him a smack on the rump and then cue his raising of his lightsaber blade and Kota says, "He's beaten, let it go," like in the cutscene. They never fought, not even once. So basically yes, he did just kneel (well not really, but basically), but he would have blasted Galen if Galen tried to kill him. Palpatine was never at risk, period.

 

This.

[Aurbere]

Interesting to see how things progressed while I was busy doing FPs.

 

I guess I'll jump in here and say a few things.

 

1. If I ever want to do a 'tournament of THE best' it would end with Sidious winning. And if I removed Sidious, the winner would end up being Yoda or Jaina Solo. Such matches involving Yoda, Sidious, or any Solo Jedi are pretty easy to call.

 

2. Shaak Ti should be considered a master duelist. Despite her training in diplomacy and the path of the Consular, Shaak Ti did not shirk her training in lightsaber combat. We have seen this in several members of the Order. Jedi like Kit Fisto and Yoda trained to be consulars, but became incredibly skilled duelists. Jedi Masters like Plo Koon and Mace Windu took the path of the Jedi Guardian, but became incredible masters of the Force.

[marcelo_sdk]

First, I just to clear that I think Palpatine is, at least, the most powerful dark side user of all times, not that I think Marek is stronger than him. But things are not short-sighted like this in the real world. Any duel would have different situations, it's not like, "Anakin defeated Dooku, Kenobi defeated Anakin, so Kenobi will defeat Dooku", just to make an example of a real thing.

 

That's why think Palpatine is defeatable and we could do a torunament with everyone, analyzing each duel, not measuring the power of the combatant alone. And I'm not criticizing this tournament, on the contrary, I think you are absolutely the right to not throw everyone at once.

 

And just a curiosity, why the Solo twins would always win?

Edited April 12, 2013 by marcelo_sdk

[Beniboybling]

HELL NO. Galen never beat Sidious, and he certainly isn't the most powerful or even one of the most powerful force users at all. His actual canon self, is really just a good force user nothing really poor but nothing really special either.

Well he did defeat Vader... which is pretty impressive.

 

But either way, I still think Ti would win this. She has superior strength in the Force and is arguably a superior lightsaber duelist - given the fact that she was one of the finest duelists in the Order. Losing narrowly only to Galen Marek - a powerful Sith apprentice

 

On the other hand, Unduli preferred to refrain from using Force powers in battle, and was defeated by Asajj Ventress in pure lightsaber combat. Even though blinded, it would seem she recovered from this impairment quickly and should have done little to hinder her Force awareness, yet despite this Ventress broke through her guard and defeated her.

 

I think we can call this Aurbere, we do after all have 14 left to go!

 

P.S. I am also planning on releasing a new mini vs series today (not the Kaggath ) so more fun for everyone!

Edited April 12, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Ventessel]

I don't really have the time to read through all the arguments that have been put forward, but judging from the first and last pages, I'll just weigh in.

 

Shaak Ti is an aggressive and talented duelist, but Unduli has demonstrated an ability to fight through and endure pain and disability. Shaak Ti was worn down by Galen Marek, and ended up attacking him suicidally. She has also demonstrated a distinct tendency towards a lone wolf mentality, and doesn't appear to know how to back down.

 

Unduli is a methodical, practical fighter. Her flexibility and Soresu give her an incredible defense, and she is certainly powerful enough in the Force to contend with Shaak Ti. Her impressive defense would lead Shaak Ti to quickly wear herself out with her fancy acrobatics, and drive Shaak Ti to increasingly reckless and desperate attacks, much as during her duel with Marek.

 

I would have to say that unless Shaak Ti gets lucky and manages an early victory (unlikely given Unduli's concentration on defensive forms) then she will be worn out and killed when she makes desperate attacks.

[Beniboybling]

I don't really have the time to read through all the arguments that have been put forward, but judging from the first and last pages, I'll just weigh in.

 

Shaak Ti is an aggressive and talented duelist, but Unduli has demonstrated an ability to fight through and endure pain and disability. Shaak Ti was worn down by Galen Marek, and ended up attacking him suicidally. She has also demonstrated a distinct tendency towards a lone wolf mentality, and doesn't appear to know how to back down.

 

Unduli is a methodical, practical fighter. Her flexibility and Soresu give her an incredible defense, and she is certainly powerful enough in the Force to contend with Shaak Ti. Her impressive defense would lead Shaak Ti to quickly wear herself out with her fancy acrobatics, and drive Shaak Ti to increasingly reckless and desperate attacks, much as during her duel with Marek.

 

I would have to say that unless Shaak Ti gets lucky and manages an early victory (unlikely given Unduli's concentration on defensive forms) then she will be worn out and killed when she makes desperate attacks.

"…Shaak Ti's the most cunning Jedi I've met. She's even taught me a few tricks." ~ Obi-Wan Kenobi

 

I highly doubt Ti is going to resort to recklessness and desperation, if Ataru isn't working she'll adapt. Lets remember that Shaak Ti is skilled in several lightsaber forms, including Makashi - the form Ventress used to defeat Unduli - it would seem that a Makashi offensive its not entirely negated by Unduli's 'incredible defense'. Neither does it seem that incredible as Ventress broke through those defenses

.

 

Then we have to consider that Ti can break through those defenses with powerful Force based attacks. One things for sure, Ti won't keep up a constant Ataru offensive if its not working. She'll also smart enough to know that Ataru is best used in short bursts and in compliment with another form, like Makashi. A form that will not wear her out, and one she is very proficient in, more proficient than Ventress.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Ventessel]

"…Shaak Ti's the most cunning Jedi I've met. She's even taught me a few tricks." ~ Obi-Wan Kenobi

 

I highly doubt Ti is going to resort to recklessness and desperation, if Ataru isn't working she'll adapt. Lets remember that Shaak Ti is skilled in several lightsaber forms, including Makashi - the form Ventress used to defeat Unduli - it would seem that a Makashi offensive its not entirely negated by Unduli's 'incredible defense'. Neither does it seem that incredible as Ventress broke through those defenses

.

 

Then we have to consider that Ti can break through those defenses with powerful Force based attacks. One things for sure, Ti won't keep up a constant Ataru offensive if its not working. She'll also smart enough to know that Ataru is best used in short bursts and in compliment with another form, like Makashi.

 

Why would you doubt that Shaak Ti would get desperate? When she couldn't overwhelm Marek through Ataru and Makashi assaults, she resorted the suicidal tactics that allowed him to kill her. Marek was a patient, methodical fighter who flowed easily between using Shien and Soresu for defense and Juyo for attack.

 

Unduli is a tenacious fighter, who managed to fight Ventress to a draw despite being blinded. That duel went back and forth, leading me to believe that Unduli will rise to the occasion and match Shaak Ti strike for strike. Remember, Unduli is no slouch at saber combat, and is highly regarded by her fellow Jedi. If the fight drags on, Shaak Ti will begin to tire and start getting sloppy. Unduli's superb flexibility and Soresu will be more than enough to counter Shaak Ti's offense long enough to frustrate Shaak Ti.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well he did defeat Vader... which is pretty impressive.

 

Ya....only winning, by throwing an energy field generator at him which exploded on contact. At any point during the duel, Galen would have been seriously ****ed if it weren't for that, its pretty much stated in the novel one slip up and he was done for.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Ya....only winning, by throwing an energy field generator at him which exploded on contact. At any point during the duel, Galen would have been seriously ****ed if it weren't for that, its pretty much stated in the novel one slip up and he was done for.

Marek used his natural surroundings coupled with his impressive Force powers to his advantage, he didn't slip or falter, and he defeated Vader. Marek > Vader.

 

But either way, aren't the cutscenes supposedly canon? If so then the battle would be interpreted as follows:

 

However, the sheer weight of Vader's heavy armor and prostheses left him unable to physically compete with the agile Marek. Furthermore, the numerous cybernetic additions to his body considerably diminished his potential in the Force. Ultimately, the apprentice had surpassed the master—the irony being that this was the Sith way, yet Marek was never "officially" a Sith apprentice. With the Force on his side, Marek crushed Vader under a pile of heavy pipes and unleashed a furry of swift attacks that brought Vader to his knees. After pummeling away a few times at the last of Vader's defenses, Marek viciously sliced off the upper part of Vader's mask, then used the Force to brutally fling his former master through a glass pane and into the throne room. Darth Vader, damaged and no longer capable of defending himself, had finally been defeated. ~ Wookieepedia.

 

It would seem that Vader was simply overwhelmed. Which makes sense as Marek is more powerful in most, if not all, respects. Obviously it was a difficult fight, but he prevailed nonetheless.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Marek used his natural surroundings coupled with his impressive Force powers to his advantage, he didn't slip or falter, and he defeated Vader. Marek > Vader.

 

But either way, aren't the cutscenes supposedly canon? If so then the battle would be interpreted as follows:

 

However, the sheer weight of Vader's heavy armor and prostheses left him unable to physically compete with the agile Marek. Furthermore, the numerous cybernetic additions to his body considerably diminished his potential in the Force. Ultimately, the apprentice had surpassed the master—the irony being that this was the Sith way, yet Marek was never "officially" a Sith apprentice. With the Force on his side, Marek crushed Vader under a pile of heavy pipes and unleashed a furry of swift attacks that brought Vader to his knees. After pummeling away a few times at the last of Vader's defenses, Marek viciously sliced off the upper part of Vader's mask, then used the Force to brutally fling his former master through a glass pane and into the throne room. Darth Vader, damaged and no longer capable of defending himself, had finally been defeated. ~ Wookieepedia.

 

It would seem that Vader was simply overwhelmed. Which makes sense as Marek is more powerful in most, if not all, respects. Obviously it was a difficult fight, but he prevailed nonetheless.

 

Here is what actually happened in the duel though..

 

Despite himself, he was as surprised as his former Master clearly was. For a moment, the only sounds were the twin humming of the lightsabers and the wheezing of Darth Vader's respirator. Then the Dark Lord laughed. It was an awful sound, empty of humor and full of mockery. In it, the apprentice heard a decade and a half of torture and abuse. Anger flared. He lunged forward. His former Master barely blocked the blow. A second scored a deep wound across his black-clad shoulder. A third stabbed deep into his thigh.Darth Vader reeled backward, servos whining in his injured limbs and lightsaber shaking. The apprentice gripped his lightsaber in both hands and held himself back. Anger was familiar and powerful; it also clouded his eyes when he most needed to see clearly. Vader prepared for combat again. His power over the apprentice, however,was gone. His lightsaber went skittering and sparking across the floor, twisted out of his grip by telekinesis. The Force wrenched him into the air, as he had once lifted the apprentice's father, and a barrage of missiles struck at him with increasing strength. He raised his gloved hands to defend himself, but the battery continued until, with a crash, the apprentice ripped the energy field generator in the center of the room right out of the floor and hurled it at his former Master. The generator exploded with greater force than he had expected, throwing him and everyone else to the floor. The transparisteel dome shattered. Debris rained everywhere. The sound of the explosion rang in his ears for an unnaturally long time afterward. He was the first to his feet, striding across the rubble to where Darth Vader lay face-forward, gravely wounded and stripped of his armor in places. Flesh and machinery showed through the gaps. Finally, some real blood was flowing. The apprentice stood over him with his lightsaber upraised and ready to strike. His former Master was trying to stand, feebly willing his massive bulk to move as it was supposed to. Servomotors whined and strained. When he rolled over, the apprentice froze. Darth Vader's helmet had been ripped away by the blast. Beneath was the face of the man who had stolen and enslaved him, a pathetic, hairless thing covered in wrinkles and old scar tissue. Only the eyes showed the slightest signs of life: blue and full of pain, they stared up at him with undisguised weariness.

 

So he didn't simply just overpower Vader, he used an environmental advantage yes but that was his only saving grace.

 

But anyway were getting off topic here, back to the matter at hand.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

So he didn't simply just overpower Vader, he used an environmental advantage yes but that was his only saving grace.

Wait, what? I'm confused how you drew that interpretation from this. Marek owned Vader. I'm not sure if Vader had been weakened already by that point but he may as well have not had a lightsaber. Just like it said on Wookieepedia, Marek unleashed a flurry of attacks, scoring deep wounds in his shoulder and thigh. At this point Vader seems barely able to stand, let alone kill Marek. Then Marek rips his lightsaber from his grip (at this point it would seem the battle is pretty much over) and proceeds to pummel him with the Force. Lifting him off the floor in a telekinetic grip! That move alone basically means: its over. Forget the energy field generator, forget environmental advantages, if Marek had wanted to he could have implaled Vader there are then, and Vader would be helpless to resist. There is no way Vader could have won at that point. No way.

 

Let me stress the importance of Marek lifting him up in a Force grip. This basically means Vader has lost, he is took weak to keep his Force resistance up and Marek can easily break through those shields and do whatever he likes. At this point Marek is free to toss him about like a ragdoll. Rarely, if ever, have I seen a battle were the lifted defeats the lifter, that is basically a cornerstone for a KO. I would assume that before that happened, Marek pretty much defeated Vader in combat, otherwise he wouldn't have been that weak.

 

Wow, it would seem that when people quote the book saying 'Vader was disinterested' they were really clutching at straws. Does no one else interpret this in the same way?

Edited April 12, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wait, what? I'm confused how you drew that interpretation from this. Marek owned Vader. I'm not sure if Vader had been weakened already by that point but he may as well have not had a lightsaber. Just like it said on Wookieepedia, Marek unleashed a flurry of attacks, scoring deep wounds in his shoulder and thigh. At this point Vader seems barely able to stand, let alone kill Marek. Then Marek rips his lightsaber from his grip (at this point it would seem the battle is pretty much over) and proceeds to pummel him with the Force. Lifting him off the floor in a telekinetic grip! That move alone basically means: its over. Forget the energy field generator, forget environmental advantages, if Marek had wanted to he could have implaled Vader there are then, and Vader would be helpless to resist. There is no way Vader could have won at that point. No way.

 

Let me stress the importance of Marek lifting him up in a Force grip. This basically means Vader has lost, he is took weak to keep his Force resistance up and Marek can easily break through those shields and do whatever he likes. At this point Marek is free to toss him about like a ragdoll. Rarely, if ever, have I seen a battle were the lifted defeats the lifter, that is basically a cornerstone for a KO. I would assume that before that happened, Marek pretty much defeated Vader in combat, otherwise he wouldn't have been that weak.

 

Wow, it would seem that when people quote the book saying 'Vader was disinterested' they were really clutching at straws. Does no one else interpret this in the same way?

 

From TFU unleashed novel, the Vader being disinterested part was the 2nd not the 1st. Also while yes Vader was gripped, that wasn't the end of the fight he could have gotten out of it, he was raising his arms. Impaling Vader? Please...Vader has survived impalments with a saber before. The generator was what ended the fight.

 

But yes Marek won, so lets just move on already with the fight going on now.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Why would you doubt that Shaak Ti would get desperate? When she couldn't overwhelm Marek through Ataru and Makashi assaults, she resorted the suicidal tactics that allowed him to kill her. Marek was a patient, methodical fighter who flowed easily between using Shien and Soresu for defense and Juyo for attack.

 

Unduli is a tenacious fighter, who managed to fight Ventress to a draw despite being blinded. That duel went back and forth, leading me to believe that Unduli will rise to the occasion and match Shaak Ti strike for strike. Remember, Unduli is no slouch at saber combat, and is highly regarded by her fellow Jedi. If the fight drags on, Shaak Ti will begin to tire and start getting sloppy. Unduli's superb flexibility and Soresu will be more than enough to counter Shaak Ti's offense long enough to frustrate Shaak Ti.

That would be making the assumption that Unduli is more powerful, or as powerful as, Marek. Which I do not accept as the case. It would seem from her fight with Ventress that her defences were far less difficult to penetrate than Marek's. Nor is there any evidence that Ti is not patient or methodical, and able to flow easily between Ataru and Makashi. She only resorted to a desperate attack (which wasn't that desperate) as a very last resort. Before that she was graceful and fluid. If Ti will be forced to make desperate attacks in this battle, then she's lost before its even begun. She simply wasn't strong enough to defeat Marek.

 

And again, why would Ti tire and Unduli not? Ti can easily switch to Makashi which focuses on economy of movement and is one of the least tiring of the forms, and whose to say, given the not so impenetrable nature of Unduli's defense, that Ti could not break through with a burst of Ataru. Your making the assumption that the fight will drag on, and considering her brief duel with Ventress (which ended in her sound defeat) and Ti's power and regard as one the greatest duelists of her age, and her ability to unleash powerful Force based attacks, I don't think it will.

 

Also note that Unduli was not blinded, one of her eyes was damaged and she quickly recovered.

[Beniboybling]

From TFU unleashed novel, the Vader being disinterested part was the 2nd not the 1st. Also while yes Vader was gripped, that wasn't the end of the fight he could have gotten out of it, he was raising his arms. Impaling Vader? Please...Vader has survived impalments with a saber before. The generator was what ended the fight.

Raising his arms in a feeble attempt to block his attacks, which certainly wasn't doing anything. If he hadn't had the generator, he could have just flung Vader about the room, flung him out of the window, flung some heavy objects at him, struck him with Force lightning, or dismembered and beheaded him.

 

One thing's for sure, Vader was in no position to fight back or kill Marek, he couldn't even keep hold of his lightsaber. He couldn't deflect any of Marek's saber attacks. He was beaten.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Beniboybling