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lol bolster


LegendaryQuan

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Jesus, they could just turn bolster off at 55 and fix this crapfest in a second. But NOO.

 

Any serious pvp-player doesnt expect that their old PVP set is "best" after a expansion, so battlemaster/war hero gear ppl could just do what i did on a new char. PLAY 2 weeks and get the full 1st set. Give out a new blue pvp set at 55, disable bolster at 55 and LET US PLAY PVP.

 

Yes turn off bolster on lvl 55 please. And do it very fast kk

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... the idea of comparing a warzone to an operation is ludicrous. There is no warzone for people with lower gear in which to get better gear unlike being able to run story mode to prepare for hard mode and so on [...]

 

Agree with every word you said.. especially the bolded areas. [...]

 

 

You are both stunningly wrong and the comments indicate that you two have *no* idea what you are talking about.

 

The "warzone for people with lower gear in which to get better gear... [LIKE] being able to run story mode to prepare for hard mode and so on..." are the UNDER-CAP PvP brackets. *GASP*!!

 

Under cap, you are in WZs with other players who also are not yet wearing PvP gear. In addition, and most importantly, that is where you *learn* the fights and the dynamics of teamwork with others that are doing the same. That is also where you start stacking your commendations so that you can buy some Cap level gear when you hit that cap level.

 

**On that last point: you can start stacking regular War Zone Comms from the very beginning until you reach the storage cap. When/if you hit that storage cap, you can choose to buy PvP stims and adrenals which you can either use for yourself, or if you find yourself credit-strapped, they sell extremely well to other players. I venture to say that if you become a broker for those items, you will have NO credit issues when you hit cap so you can purchase all your skills and then some. At Valor Rank 40 -- which you can hit as early as level 40 -- you can then start stacking Ranked War Zone Comms. I personally have a level 48 scoundrel that is completely capped on both types of Comms with several stacks of stims & adrenals as well as stacks I have sent to alts with which I PvP. Basically, I'm flush... several times over.**

 

In fact, here is an incredibly useful guide (which I'll favorably refer to as a "survival guide" because it helps people positively cope with what we've got, at this point) that TonyDragonflame put together to help people plan what to get in what order to help people have the most favorable experience possible. Thank you for your work, TD!

 

http://bit.ly/13ucq4n

 

TLDR: The under-cap WZ brackets are the training grounds where people learn the fights, learn teamwork, learn communication, and start the process of acquiring PvP gear for the Cap level. In those regards, it is the De-Facto equivalent of "story mode" FPs & Ops.

 

After all, you wouldn't expect someone to out of the blue show up to a Hard Mode or Nightmare Mode Operation, with no gear, no experience, and not having done even the most basic of research into the fights to fare very well... would you?

Edited by BoushhDC
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If you're wearing top tier pve gear, or even second best pve gear, you now get expertise. So all the PVE stats are better than the actual PVP gear, but on top of that, now you get expertise in addition to that. That is very different from recruit gear. Recruit gear with equal expertise to partisan/conquerer, but less primary/secondary/tertiary stats would be a tier of gear "not as good" as partisan gear. That's the fundamental difference between recruit gear and bolster.

 

The idea of recruit gear is a good idea, but in practice was implemented poorly pre2.0 (NOT free for F2P players, awful stats). Bolster, however, is a bad idea in theory and in practice, obviously, as it has caused way more player frustration than recruit gear ever did.

 

The whole implementation of PVP in general for 2.0 has been a joke. They should have made the pvp gear tiers 72 conquerer, 69 partisan, 66 recruit. Instead, the best rating gear is 1 notch below Crafted pve gear? But yet they use bolster to try to make up for this by bolstering armor rating and weapon damage to underworld rating? Yeah, it's clear PVPers got the short end of the stick here.

 

As for the countless bugs, exploits that existed, exist, and will exist as more gear is introduced to the game, just a fundamental part of the bolster system as well. This is the garbage experience that pvpers have to look forward to.

 

It has now been a month of exploit laden bolstered pvp. They supposedly will fix the augment glitch on tuesday. Within a week, there will be yet more exploits revealed. And it will continue that way so long as this system is in place. So the question is, how many months do paying customers get screwed out of an even semi-enjoyable pvp experience due to bolster? I'm guessing probably about 6-8 months before they scrap it. That's their typical response time to Serious problems that the community is in an uproar about.

 

So again, the best solution is a new set of recruit pvp gear, moddable, with GOOD stats. There would be absolutely no reason for people not to wear it. And if for whatever reason they chose not to, Again, it is their fault if they get their butt kicked. The benefit here, of course, is, if there is no bolster, there can be no gear exploits. That's the real reason why people are against bolster, myself included.

 

When are your stats not your stats? When they're bolstered!

+1

I can't agree more.

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You are both stunningly wrong and the comments indicate that you two have *no* idea what you are talking about.

 

I'm sorry, you seem to be confusing PvE content. Lowbie warzones are the equivalent of low level flashpoints. You don't have all your skills, everyone is learning their role and leveling up. You get some basic gear to get you started when you get closer to max level. At 50, you have to do some dailies and stuff to get gear good enough to begin 50 FPs, then HM FPs, then SM operations and continue getting into tougher content.

 

Last I checked, you get thrown straight into the fire in warzones. Sure, if you want to do nothing but warzones from 40-50 then you'll be maxed out when you hit 55 on comms and have some decent gear. But not EVERYONE wants to level straight through warzones even with the experience perks. You're basically saying, "do what I did because PvP is better or else you deserve to be terrible". PvP is missing the step between learning your role and facing the toughest fights you'll ever see in the game. Since there is no way to have this step, then you have to put the players on a similar gear level or their lack of skill will only be compounded by their inability to do anything or have any fun until they reach that level.

 

TL;DR your comparison is wrong and you should feel wrong.

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I'm sorry, you seem to be confusing PvE content. Lowbie warzones are the equivalent of low level flashpoints. You don't have all your skills, everyone is learning their role and leveling up. You get some basic gear to get you started when you get closer to max level. At 50, you have to do some dailies and stuff to get gear good enough to begin 50 FPs, then HM FPs, then SM operations and continue getting into tougher content.

 

Last I checked, you get thrown straight into the fire in warzones. Sure, if you want to do nothing but warzones from 40-50 then you'll be maxed out when you hit 55 on comms and have some decent gear. But not EVERYONE wants to level straight through warzones even with the experience perks. You're basically saying, "do what I did because PvP is better or else you deserve to be terrible". PvP is missing the step between learning your role and facing the toughest fights you'll ever see in the game. Since there is no way to have this step, then you have to put the players on a similar gear level or their lack of skill will only be compounded by their inability to do anything or have any fun until they reach that level.

 

TL;DR your comparison is wrong and you should feel wrong.

 

Again, you are mistaken. Under cap WZs are like unto "story mode to prepare for hard mode and so on..."

 

Why? Because the under-cap PvP and cap-level PvP is the *same* content. Under cap Civil War has the same map and mechanics as cap level Civil War. Sub-cap & cap level Voidstar both take 8 seconds to plant a door. The ways points are accumulated in Ancient Hypergate sub-cap is exactly the same ways they are in cap level AH. The difference is how tough the fights are, i.e. how tough your competitors are... they themselves have a couple additional damage/resistance/escape abilities vs. the lower level brackets, and more HPs. Not too unlike the differences between SM boss fights and HM/NiM boss fights, no?

 

In fact, when BW explained their reasoning behind the PvP bracket changes, they expressly stated that "by level 30, most classes have their main rotations." To BW (and because of bolster, which has always existed in one form or the other in this game) lvl 30 can be just as effective as level 54 in PvP even if they don't have every single "extra" skill (those abilities not part of the main rotations) that they added to the game. This is why I say that the under cap brackets of PvP are the training grounds for not just the maps and learning teamwork & roles, but also prepares people for when the difficulty scales, for various reasons. This is also where the process of gearing starts.

 

Prior to 2.0, BW even gave players a base set of PvP gear for free to get them started. There was no "thrown straight into the fire" about it. Basically, even newbies to PvP (those that never stepped foot into a WZ before hitting cap -- which yes, is going to have a steeper learning curve those first couple of fights, if you've never done it before) were coddled and catered to as much as they could be; after all, there's no replacement for experience. What BW couldn't do was make people wear it -- so those players were having a "harsh" PvP experience as a result -- so BW had to "idiot-proof" the system for them.

 

Regarding your statement about having to purely PvP from 40-55, in order to save up enough comms to get to the storage cap, you must have failed to read the section of my post where I talk of my level 48 scoundrel (seven levels below cap, and just hit 48 at that) who is maxed on all comms with multiple stacks of stims & adrenals to boot. If people don't want to PvP, then by all means, no one is making them, so just don't. If you want to, then do. It's really not that hard. Do whatever you want, but if you don't want to do the work, learn the fights, do the absolute minimum to make yourself useful, don't expect an easy time.

 

TLDR: I stand by my statement that Under cap War Zones are the entry level to cap-level (now 55) War Zones, because it's dead-on accurate. Let me explain it this way... I'm not saying that under-cap PvP is exactly like story mode operations. I'm saying that under-cap War Zones are to cap-level War Zones what SM Operations are to HM Operations. Remember the S.A.T.? That is why my statement is correct and I hope I've explained it a little better to you as to why (but for that you will have to read the preceding paragraphs, if you haven't already, sorry.)

Edited by BoushhDC
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The gap between recruit gear and WH/EWH gear was too wide. Even in the lowbie bracket, one could get to lvl 49 and twink his character in purple mods/enhancements. Facerolling (as in 2-3 shotting an opponent) an opponent because of a gear advantage is not what I call good pvp. Would it be wise if someone would try to do nightmare Ops with HM flashpoints gear? Nope. Before 2.0, pvp wasn't good because a newcomer who didn't have their full BM/WH/EWH set were getting destroyed by the veterans wearing their full pvp gear. That newcomer was like that guy in HM flashpoint gear trying to do a nightmare op. There are people who left the game because of the gear gap between recruit gear and WH/EWH but for some reason the anti-bolster people forgot about that detail.

 

With the bolster, BW gave us the choice of either maxing your comms by doing only warzones (which can be tedious after a while), get to lvl 55 and farm your comms or do both PVP and PVE while leveling. There is nothing wrong with having more choice. PVErs have the choice of what PVE content they wanna do. PVPers had little to no choice pre 2.0: tt was either max your comms before lvl 50 until you die of starvation or die 523455345 times in WZs because of the wide gear gap.

 

What Jadescythe said make a lot of sense. We all know that the bolster is bugged but it doesn't keep us from pvping. I wish they could've fix the augment glitch sooner too it should be fixed next week I hope. But overall BW made one of their best decision since launch by implementing the bolster system. It is totally acceptable to complain about the bugs but I know that some of you guys have a big ego and aren't happy that more people can enjoy pvp. The more the merrier imo!

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The gap between recruit gear and WH/EWH gear was too wide. [...] Before 2.0, pvp wasn't good because a newcomer who didn't have their full BM/WH/EWH set were getting destroyed by the veterans wearing their full pvp gear. [...]There are people who left the game because of the gear gap between recruit gear and WH/EWH but for some reason the anti-bolster people forgot about that detail.

 

That's an interesting narrative, and one I would have previously been inclined to believe. Maybe that's why I was surprised and dismayed at what BW ACTUALLY said:

 

Hey everyone, I have seen a lot of questions about why Bolster exists at 55 given the issues we have been having. I talked to Rob Hinkle and here is his explanation on why Bolster exists as a system at level 55.

 

...Before 2.0 we gave free sets of PvP gear, the Recruit (and Recruit Mk-2) sets, to players as they reached the max level of the game. This gear was intended to set the minimum power level of players inside Warzones, making sure that regardless of what gear you’ve managed to obtain as you were leveling, you were at “X” power level at the worst.

 

[...]Unfortunately, giving away physical gear ran into a number of problems: ...some players simply sold the gear for an immediate cash gain, and a large number of people either didn’t ever acquire the Recruit gear or simply didn’t wear it while inside PvP. The result was a rather harsh introduction to PvP for fresh level 50 players....

 

 

Okay, so lolbolster is upon us (and still with us), as flawed as it is, because players that either vendored their free pvp gear or refused to wear it, gave themselves a "harsh" pvp experience thereby causing a drop-off in WZ participation. Nope, ya can't make this stuff up. That's the official reason. :(

 

I wish they could've fix the augment glitch sooner...

 

Not the only bug we've had to endure. So far the "Greatest Hits" have additionally included:

 

The Naked Bolster Bug

The Relic Slots Bug

The Empty Modification Slots Bug

The Arkanian/Underworld being superior to Conqueror Bug

and "many" other Unspecified bugs they have worked on behind the scenes with bolster.

 

Nope, not imagining that last part either:

 

In addition to these changes we fixed many underlying bugs in the Bolster system ....

 

So, what were you saying?

 

...BW made one of their best decision since launch by implementing the bolster system.

 

Hmm. I'm going to have to say that the chasm between "idea" and "implementation" (i.e. the reality of the situation) is still too vast for that to be close to being true. I am happy, however, to see positive posts such as this "survival guide," as I call it, to help cope with what we've gotten thrust upon us (bugs and all) regardless of bolster's dubious origins.

 

http://bit.ly/13ucq4n

 

It's a good read. You might like it.

Edited by BoushhDC
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Indeed. How does one make it fair, is the question. Do you punish some people for doing some things intentionally, but not others for doing different things equally as intentionally? What criteria would you come up with to draw the distinction, I wonder?

 

Since all of the above mentioned unintended bugs were BW's fault (they broke their own game), and not the product of players utilizing 3rd party software to "hack" the game to unfair advantage, I predict they will handle it similarly to how they did the mega-levelling bug on Ilum during the Gree Event.

 

They call that "precedence."

 

See your problem is you are hung up on this idea that punishing people without punishing everyone is "unfair". It's not - this is how most law works. If you get caught and they feel like punishing you, they punish you. Or they let you go. But no one cares about whether it is 'universally applied' - which is a very immature and naive way of measuring "fair". No one is going to shed tears for people cheating, who were warned, continued to do it, then caught a suspension for it.

 

Precedence? This isn't a court of law. They can choose to enforce as much or as little as they want and again, if you're warned not to exploit something and you keep going, you have no right to complain and no one will feel sorry for you.

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See your problem is you are hung up on this idea that punishing people without punishing everyone is "unfair". It's not - this is how most law works. If you get caught and they feel like punishing you, they punish you. Or they let you go. But no one cares about whether it is 'universally applied' - which is a very immature and naive way of measuring "fair". No one is going to shed tears for people cheating, who were warned, continued to do it, then caught a suspension for it.

 

Precedence? This isn't a court of law. They can choose to enforce as much or as little as they want and again, if you're warned not to exploit something and you keep going, you have no right to complain and no one will feel sorry for you.

 

lol.

 

My question was, all things being equal, by what criteria would you make the distinction?

 

Put simply: If BW issues someone a warning about something specific telling them that continuing that activity will result in "X" and that person continues to engage in that activit anyway, and BW then chooses to follow through, I think that's fair. That would certainly satisfy the concept of a "fair warning." But that doesn't really answer the question I posed. I'll point out to you, however, that the scenario you gave was entirely different than the opinion of the person I was initially addressing.

 

The precedence I cited was a prediction about how BW will choose to handle it. Nothing more. What's your prediction?

 

Btw, saying that the way "most law works" is to paint it in almost every single case as unapologetically arbitrary, is more cynical than factual. The Law aside, in a gaming environment, if there is no difference between person A and person B, then why shouldn't the rules be equally applied? Do you have a problem with that, or are you more of the "shooting a hostage" school of thought (making an example out of one randomly selected individual)? Just curious.

Edited by BoushhDC
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See your problem is you are hung up on this idea that punishing people without punishing everyone is "unfair". It's not - this is how most law works. If you get caught and they feel like punishing you, they punish you. Or they let you go. But no one cares about whether it is 'universally applied' - which is a very immature and naive way of measuring "fair". No one is going to shed tears for people cheating, who were warned, continued to do it, then caught a suspension for it.

 

Precedence? This isn't a court of law. They can choose to enforce as much or as little as they want and again, if you're warned not to exploit something and you keep going, you have no right to complain and no one will feel sorry for you.

 

Sorry, they warned people? As I recall, they basically admitted this was a bug/glitch/exploit/whatever about 3 weeks ago and said they were gonna fix it ASAP!!....in about 3 weeks.

 

Bioware is a for profit company, it would be a very very poor business decision to ban somebody for exploiting bugs that they created, acknowledged, and neither discouraged/encouraged in any way whatsoever.

 

For the amount of people exploiting this bug, including members of top ranked pvp guilds, if bioware to send out mass bans, they'd kill the populations on all their servers. This is especially true in how they'd carry it out, likely in a heavyhanded fashion, "what? you have an empty augment slot on your lvl 40s green implant?! BAN!!" "But I bought it off the gtn with the empty slot and was too poor to buy an augment!" "BAN!!!!!!!" Yeah, that would work out really great.

 

I mean honestly, if they supposedly just give 1-week bans to ACTUAL cheating hackers who use 3rd party software, why on earth would they permanently ban people simply exploiting their broken system by removing a mod here or an augment there? It's laughable.

 

If removing an augment is considered "hacking" then the bar for hacking has really plummeted. =/

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Hey everyone, I have seen a lot of questions about why Bolster exists at 55 given the issues we have been having. I talked to Rob Hinkle and here is his explanation on why Bolster exists as a system at level 55.

 

 

 

so why not give everyone a basic unchangeable boster ... where everyone is guaranteed the same stats .... and once they have x amount of pvp pieces and suppase the bolster then they gain

 

i find it hilarious u halted the patch of 2.0.1 because of a "game breaking bug" which was the white ness of the global cooldown not working yet released bolster like it is ....

 

i know i personally reported all the bolster issues when i was testing on pts

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**On that last point: you can start stacking regular War Zone Comms from the very beginning until you reach the storage cap. When/if you hit that storage cap, you can choose to buy PvP stims and adrenals which you can either use for yourself, or if you find yourself credit-strapped, they sell extremely well to other players. I venture to say that if you become a broker for those items, you will have NO credit issues when you hit cap so you can purchase all your skills and then some. At Valor Rank 40 -- which you can hit as early as level 40 -- you can then start stacking Ranked War Zone Comms. I personally have a level 48 scoundrel that is completely capped on both types of Comms with several stacks of stims & adrenals as well as stacks I have sent to alts with which I PvP. Basically, I'm flush... several times over.**

 

Just curious, but do you totally skip your class story or what? The 2 most recent characters I levelled up before RotHC did only class story quests after Hoth and PvP to level. Neither finished their class story or hit max comms before hitting 50. They had enough for weapons and a couple pieces of WH/EWH, but neither was able to cap ranked comms before level 50. In both cases I had maxed WZ comms when I hit 40/40.

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Just curious, but do you totally skip your class story or what? The 2 most recent characters I levelled up before RotHC did only class story quests after Hoth and PvP to level. Neither finished their class story or hit max comms before hitting 50. They had enough for weapons and a couple pieces of WH/EWH, but neither was able to cap ranked comms before level 50. In both cases I had maxed WZ comms when I hit 40/40.

 

No, I've done my class story, but haven't finished it yet on the level 48 scoundrel. I'm pretty much on par with my level so far and can send 5 of my companions out on crew skills missions, if that's any indication. I did shelve it and another character during double XP weekends, though. Bear in mind, however, that you additionally have until lvl 55 now before you can buy the PvP gear, so you have even more time. On an earlier character, I had maxed Ranked and regular WZ comms just under the wire before 50 (when that was cap) because I hadn't thought about stacking the ranked until almost mid 40s. I planned a bit better on the scoundrel and started stacking ranked right after hitting 40.

 

*EDIT* Oh, and I forgot, from about 45 on, I quit taking the PvP dailies because they granted XP and by my calculations would get me to level cap before Comms storage cap.

Edited by BoushhDC
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It should definately be better now, it's really only practical for alts though. First time through I would expect most players to want to sample more of the game. Edited by Draekos
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Half naked Guardians running around doing 1,031,475 dmg while a real DPS with half conq and half partisan fully augmented is only pulling 500,000 to 700,000 dmg? Thats just frustrating to deal with on a regular basis.
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That's an interesting narrative, and one I would have previously been inclined to believe. Maybe that's why I was surprised and dismayed at what BW ACTUALLY said:

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, so lolbolster is upon us (and still with us), as flawed as it is, because players that either vendored their free pvp gear or refused to wear it, gave themselves a "harsh" pvp experience thereby causing a drop-off in WZ participation. Nope, ya can't make this stuff up. That's the official reason. :(

 

 

 

Not the only bug we've had to endure. So far the "Greatest Hits" have additionally included:

 

The Naked Bolster Bug

The Relic Slots Bug

The Empty Modification Slots Bug

The Arkanian/Underworld being superior to Conqueror Bug

and "many" other Unspecified bugs they have worked on behind the scenes with bolster.

 

Nope, not imagining that last part either:

 

 

 

So, what were you saying?

 

 

 

Hmm. I'm going to have to say that the chasm between "idea" and "implementation" (i.e. the reality of the situation) is still too vast for that to be close to being true. I am happy, however, to see positive posts such as this "survival guide," as I call it, to help cope with what we've gotten thrust upon us (bugs and all) regardless of bolster's dubious origins.

 

http://bit.ly/13ucq4n

 

It's a good read. You might like it.

 

Like I said, the bolster system is good but the implementation went poorly. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Yes they should've fix the annoying bugs before implementing it but now it's too late. Eric clearly didn't explain all the reasons why they implemented the bolster in his post here. I do know that they also wanted pvp to be more skill based than geared but I'm too lazy to find the post where they said that. I see that you have a problem with the implementation of the system, not with the bolster itself.

 

The link you provided is already in my sig since yesterday :p Everyone should read this!

 

Half naked Guardians running around doing 1,031,475 dmg while a real DPS with half conq and half partisan fully augmented is only pulling 500,000 to 700,000 dmg? Thats just frustrating to deal with on a regular basis.

 

Screenshots please :)

Edited by Darkshadz
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It should definately be better now, it's really only practical for alts though. First time through I would expect most players to want to sample more of the game.

 

I definitely agree. (Also note an Edit I added at the end, for what it's worth). I'd PvP'd in beta and had decided to wait a while to PvP in live because there was just one bracket in the beginning so it mixed level 10s with fully PvP geared level 50s. Oh what a special kind of Hell that was!

 

With my main, I was a guild officer, helping lowbies, experiencing every molecule of content in the game until I started gravitating back to my main calling: pvp. (Mostly PvP'd in multiple other MMOs including personal pvp server firsts in Rift, was in several main PvP guilds in Aion in addition to spending the majority of my hours "rifting" in that game). It was a matter of time, really as I had already experienced most of the pve game. hehe. Although I quite relate to a humorous number of the items in the post I'm about to link, #37 is particularly germane to our discussion. :)

 

http://bit.ly/10cCu3A

 

I also think you'll appreciate the humor of it all. :D

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i find it hilarious u halted the patch of 2.0.1 because of a "game breaking bug" which was the white ness of the global cooldown not working yet released bolster like it is ....

 

one was a simple fix that just needed a small delay the other is a major fix that was tied to an expansion that required a deadline. I'm sure you and the others that reported the issue on the PTS helped get the ball rolling a lot sooner than it would have been ignored by the players. instead of fixing in may this coming tuesday, could be june or july instead.

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Like I said, the bolster system is good but the implementation went poorly. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Yes they should've fix the annoying bugs before implementing it but now it's too late. Eric clearly didn't explain all the reasons why they implemented the bolster in his post here. I do know that they also wanted pvp to be more skill based than geared but I'm too lazy to find the post where they said that. I see that you have a problem with the implementation of the system, not with the bolster itself.

 

The link you provided is already in my sig since yesterday :p Everyone should read this!

 

I appreciate your post very much. I also recall that the devs posted that they didn't want to abandon the gear progression entirely, but rather strike a balance. I'll try to look up that post tomorrow. It sticks in my mind because, although I have posted frequently on this subject, you will find that in some of my earliest posts after the x-pac, I wondered why, if they wanted to favor skill over gear, they didn't implement something akin to GW2's SPvP model, which I recounted in detail. The answer to that was the dev's subsequent post I mention, not in answer to me specifically, of course.

Edited by BoushhDC
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Half naked Guardians running around doing 1,031,475 dmg while a real DPS with half conq and half partisan fully augmented is only pulling 500,000 to 700,000 dmg? Thats just frustrating to deal with on a regular basis.

 

skilled one :D:D:D

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