Give Tanks and Healers a reason to que

[Jossajus]

I'll agree on one thing op, they definitely need to get rid of the legacy/birthright gear that doesn't do anything but give an extra boost in stats that could easily be achieved through proper gearing. I feel like gaining legacy xp is just part of the norm now and not something to actually look forward to, especially since damn near everything in the legacy panel can be bought through cartel coins. Why would I waste my time getting my legacy to level 50 to get something if I can buy it when my level is at 15 for like 200 cc's?

 

On the topic at hand, I don't know what server you're on or when you're queuing up but I know when I had my scoundrel healer, I was finding groups for fp's so *********** quick I wouldn't even have time to take a sip of my drink.

 

I'm on Jedi Covenent (BIGGEST MISTAKE EVER! SO MANY SENTINELS) and when I queue as a tank it's literally instantaneous for HM's. I hit queue and it pops, no matter what time it is.

[platinumruggo]

On JC as well, and my friend runs a trooper tank whilst I gun sling and because he's a tank, we find queues instantly. Although I do agree there are FAR too many sent's.

[Lasica]

I'm not sure about everyone else but I generally only play tanks or healers.

 

At the moment I have 2 level 50 healers (smuggler + sage), 1 level 50 tank (assassin) and I'm levelling a Vanguard and and Guardian as tanks.

[Jossajus]

On JC as well, and my friend runs a trooper tank whilst I gun sling and because he's a tank, we find queues instantly. Although I do agree there are FAR too many sent's.

 

I guarantee you that 9/10 times the other DPS in the FP is a sent. Am I right?

[HSFOverlord]

I play mostly DPS, but I have a few Heals as well, so I am most familiar with those rolls, and I am currently trying to level a Tank spec'd Jugg. As a healer my pet peeve with DPS players is they don't pick up the stray mobs that the Tank can't hold, or that were outside his taunt range, or that happened to wander into the combat, and start attacking me after I throw a few heals. If the mob is a silver or less, I can usually burn it down by myself, but the DPS characters will be getting no heals untill after it's down. If it's a gold and my cc is off cooldown, he gets cc'd, otherwise I move up next to the Tank, so he can deal with it. When I DPS, if I'm ranged, I position myself to the side, and slightly behind the Heals, so I can keep an eye on them, and if I'm melee, I try to pay attention to the Heals' life bar so I can disengage and attack anything that is attacking the Healer. As DPS, I also work my way from the bottom up, taking out the small stuff first, while the Tank holds the big stuff. I think that if more DPS followed that example, the Tanks and Heals would be more willing to que, and get more enjoyment out of running FPs.

 

I once saw someone, can't remember who, post their motto as a Healer: "If the Tank dies, it's the Healer's fault. If the Healer dies, it's the Tank's falut. If the DPS dies, it's your own damb fault." As a Healer myself I would only change the second line to "If the Healer dies, it's the DPS fault." as the Tank is busy holding onto the big stuff and the DPS should be picking up the strays.

[iEuthanasia]

I guarantee you that 9/10 times the other DPS in the FP is a sent. Am I right?

 

It's either a Sent or a Shadow because someone saw a Shinarika PvP video and think they're going to be the worlds best Shadow DPS. -.-

[CKHelseth]

GF will always be a sorry substitute for an active guild and good relationships with other players.

[LordRahlik]

Absolutely not!

 

The group finder is a very very bad idea to begin with and should never be implemented in any game.

 

To add an "incentive" to useless players to accept roles they cannot handle is even worse.

 

Do NOT do this. Absolutely not.

Remove the LFG all together, that would be a better idea.

[HSFOverlord]

The GF is a useful tool, but it could be better. If they remove it, they would need to add something else, perhaps an LFG channel, filtered by level a la AO along with a QT option for FPs/Ops.

[stockmks]

Group finder is awesome. Better i think would be to add real consequence to dungeons.. e.g.

 

If a dps decides to pull and the tank can't/doesnt pick it up, the dps should get 2-4 shotted very quickly.

If a dps pulls a second group by aoe actually cause a wipe unless some extremely good gameplay/well geared players are present.

Lay out mobs and corridors so that its hard to do this by accident/avoidance of another group.

 

The lack of wiping consequence is probably what causes the sad behavior in dungeons. Wow's speed dungeoning culture isn't the nicest way to play for many reasons.. but dps dont pull in wow.. not unless they absolutely know what they're doing.

[Lasica]

Certainly good finder tonight doesn't seem to be getting any bites (as a healer). 2 hours without finding a group so far.

 

And as I say that I get a group.... always the way isn't it.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Lasica

[LarryRow]

Leveling as a tank or healer isn't as fun as dps. I leveled a sawbones and it was excruciating healing Risha while she pew-pewed, and throwing occasional pew pews of my own.

 

Anyone that queues as dps and healer should get two free field respec tokens. Tanks are harder because the gear is different. I say just convert all their stats. Power -> Defense, Crit -> Shield, Surge -> Absorb. And they get the respec tokens too.

 

But that is probably too complicated and would cause too much qq. Meanwhile, if you give people extra rewards for queuing as tank, you are going to get 4-button smashers and Pyro PTs queuing as tanks, and that is no better.

[Themanthatisi]

I'm on Jedi Covenent (BIGGEST MISTAKE EVER! SO MANY SENTINELS) and when I queue as a tank it's literally instantaneous for HM's. I hit queue and it pops, no matter what time it is.

 

Ironic, if I can change my sentinel into a guardian, I would tank on the Rep side but I am not into leveling another knight to 50 on that side (I started to, but motivation is low), so I stay on the IMP side. The day they allow AC changes, is the day I tank on the Rep side and there will be one less sentinel. The reason I made a sentinel, is I was new to MMO's and did not know better... Now, that I have a 50 Jugger, I rather tanks.. to me, its fun.

[NoFishing]

As a healer, I will immediately votekick a tank in dps gear, or at the VERY least request that be get a tanking set. I would rather heal a recruit tank set player than a dread guard deeps set player. Sorry if you get thus ****** end of the stick but tanks need defensive stats in pugs. Making my job more difficult because you can't be bothered is something I will not stand for. I'll pull out my xalek if I have to.

 

For HM FPs? Really? I play mostly healers, and when a DPS comes in as a tank, and says "one sec I need to re-spec", I tell him don't bother and just ask him to put on his tank stance and a shield. Even SM EV doesn't require a lot of mitigation from the tank.

 

You could possibly make a case for more mitigation in SM KP if you are planning on single-tanking a couple of the bosses. But generally, I'd rather things die faster so the FP/OP gets done quicker.

[TralyanSavo]

As a tank, I don't need any extra rewards or any extra anything to queue for flashpoints. Even as it is, flashpoints and class quests seem to be the fastest way for a tank to level because we get very quick queues when we want them.

 

I queue all the time. But not with pugs. I queue with guildmates and friends that I know are competent players.

 

As a tank, there are way too many times when I have had pug DPS pulling mobs, saying they know the boss fights when they don't (I'll explain it to you with no problem, just don't say you know something when you don't), pug healers who are still in DPS spec, pug healers who stand around literally not healing while I have aggro on a whole mob, players who stand in AOE and expect to either not die or to get healed through it, people who don't understand that certain mobs are going to pick random players to attack at times and hold me responsible for that, plus DPS who ninja loot tank gear (if you're a merc, leave the defense/absorb/shield gear for the powertech), people who pull extra mobs, don't stack for AOE heals, don't spacebar, aren't geared for HM's and expect strangers to carry them (again, shouldnt be an issue with free Tionese/Recruit gear given at 50 but apparently it is) or are otherwise generally incompetent and/or fail to take directions. I'm sure there's other things but who knows.

 

FPs and HM FPs in this game is easy enough that I really do not want to spend repair fees because of derpy pugs. This issue has gotten a bit worse since the double xp weekends when people leveled their mains way too fast and haven't had much time to learn how to play.

 

I can either put up with all of that or I can queue with people I know, enjoy playing with, and know will be able to get through without much issue. Queuing with a pug is really always a last resort.

 

This is a social game. If you make friends with a healer and/or a tank, demonstrate to them that you're a good player, they will want to group with you for FPs and you'll have faster queues.

[AlaricSevGirl]

I do not do DPS. I tank or heal but I also don't do pugs. It's such a pain to have a DPSer rush through a FP without stopping to heal, etc, and aggro'ing a ton of mobs. I only tank or heal for my guild. In PvP, the healers rarely get kudos. In FPs, tanks and healers are a rare breed, tank is rarer, but there is no incentive at all to pug. Edited April 8, 2013 by AlaricSevGirl

[uziforyou]

Except abuse - I hated doing pugs on my tanks so much I only run with my guild now - I am not saying I didn't make the odd mistake but when you have some arse of a dps running ahead of the group and pulling aggro from 2 groups of mobs at once then giving out crap to the tank for not taunting them away from him is just too much to bear!

 

True enough but I don't put up with this. Maybe other tanks do. When DPS pulls once I chalk it up to being unintentional. If it happens again I simply drop group. And if anyone wants to give abuse they've got 30 seconds while the clock counts down after I've dropped group. I play the game for fun and refuse to deal with jerks. That sucks for the others in the group that weren't being jerks but I'm willing to live with that. In this case yes, it's about me.

[DarthTHC]

The solution is simple. If you think there aren't enough tanks, you can roll a tank!

 

Come, join us. Be one of us. Understand why we rarely queue for pure random groups.

 

As a tank, that is actually the best advice I can give you if you don't like queue times. Roll one and be part of the solution rather than just another complainer.

 

The second best advice I can give is to teach people the right way to play the game in a group.

 

I couldn't give 2 sh...akes of a dog's tail about extra incentive to tank random groups. Nothing the devs would be willing to offer will overcome the garbage that random groups pile on me. If the players were to make the activity more positive than frustrating, I'd queue more.

[Akash]

Keep in mind if you're a tank and dps is acting all crazy and not respecting your role you can always just vote kick or drop. It will take you a lot less time to find a new group than it will the dps. Let that happen a few times and they'll either change the way they operate or stop doing flashpoints altogether.

[DarthTHC]

True enough but I don't put up with this. Maybe other tanks do. When DPS pulls once I chalk it up to being unintentional. If it happens again I simply drop group. And if anyone wants to give abuse they've got 30 seconds while the clock counts down after I've dropped group. I play the game for fun and refuse to deal with jerks. That sucks for the others in the group that weren't being jerks but I'm willing to live with that. In this case yes, it's about me.

 

Generally when someone in the group behaves badly, either by repeatedly pulling or rolling Need on something they don't once, I'll say something in group chat and initiate a vote kick. Only if the vote kick fails do I drop.

[Andryah]

No, it isn't the developer's problem. Try speaking to all those alpha-male wannabes , marauder/sentinel-jumping-before-the-tank-into-a-mob-and-pulling-another-3-in-the-process kids

 

Hehe... yeah... sums up the real issue (which is a socio-behavioral issue) that simply cannot be solved by the developers.

 

Why not you say OP? I'm glad you asked. As far as I can determine, there is no arse-2-hat filter on the account creation screen... so the above mentioned alpha-male wannabes proceed to join the game, and wear keester for hats every chance they get. Not a problem you say? Really? Thinking this is not a core problem as to why people do not queue for FP is in fact part of the problem in the player base. People play to have fun. Yeah, some people play to make it some kind of faux-job, and some people play to make the game less fun for others. Hence the general aversion to wasting time on FPs in this game.

 

OP... join a guild that likes to run guild-only FPs on a regular basis. Problem solved... and it did not require the developers to install any keester-2-hat filters in the game.

 

/2-cents

Edited April 8, 2013 by Andryah

[LordSkyKnight]

I will agree with a lot of the other posters, it all comes down to people being idiots. Some days the groups run smooth and other days, people seem to go out of their way to be idiots on purpose. I have no problem with people making mistakes, its the ones that are bad on purpose that I get tired of grouping with.

 

Just the other day I was running the heroic in the black hole area and I had two pvpers being idiots in my group. The healer sage was punting everything from me as often as he could. He also started the pull right away when he showed up in the instance, we didn't even have everyone there yet. The other guy was a derpsmasher in pvp gear. He would just leap ahead and attack without waiting. He also liked to force push crap away from me as well while I was tanking it. I have recently changed my shadow to the tanking spec because of got tired of trying to tank with a jedi guardian because of all the idiots that make it 10x harder to play.

 

The tanks and healers don't need additional incentive to queue, the players of dps need to grow up and stop being douchebags.

Edited April 8, 2013 by LordSkyKnight

[Darth_Moonshadow]

I tank because I like the "toughened hero who is really hard to kill" playstyle. Not everyone does. So why should we bribe people to play a style they don't personally enjoy? This just seems selfish, IMO. Is your need for orange gear so insatiable that you have to resort to petty tactics just to get a run?

[Kazyon]

-SNIP-

so what is the solution? the only one I can think of is increasing the group size to allow for more dps. but that would require extensive rebalancing of every single flashpoint in a game. not to mention the 4 man size in part was meant to allow leveling people (and to be honest, I've done that with some of the hardmodes as well - with enough presence and decent gear, companion tanks are not much different to heal than actual tanks. easier in some ways) to fill in the gaps with companions if needed and not be so dependant on finding an entire group anymore.

-SNIP-

I've been saying this since before launch... A group size of 4 is stupid, because you need 1 tank for every 2 DPS. I guarantee if you look at the actual ratio of DPS to tanks in this game, it's a lot higher than 2:1.

 

My main is a tank, so my queue pops immediately, but I'd still be thrilled if they raised the group size up to at least 5. Current story modes already self-adjust for more people (bring a third person into one of your class quests and see what happens... get a free elite with every pull! ), so I'm sure they could easily do that for the Flashpoints. Since companions don't count towards getting extra mobs like that, you could still do the FP with your companions and get the current 4-person version.

 

Or just bump up the HP of every mob by about 20% to account for the extra DPS.

 

Either way, I don't think it would be a difficult change at all, and it would drastically improve the queue times for anyone who's not a tank.

[Jeweledleah]

huh... I didn't realize that about class quests and story modes, I've never done any of those with more than 2 people at the time. usually I just do them solo. but if the system is already in place, then I think they might want to consider changing the flashpoint group size and making it flexible. correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it how it works in DnD online?

 

that said - this is a minor gripe, but what would get me personally to tank more often is removal or at least drastic reduction of knockbacks - at least on trash. nothing quite like trying to position and built threat, when mobs your are trying to tank, are bouncing you all over the place like a football >_>