Please no Flashpoint Finder

[Systam]

Quoting this post for truth. The dungeon finder was a great addition to WoW but it DID kill a lot of atmosphere. In vanilla wow I LOVED seeing two raids crash into each other on their way to black rock mountain. I loved doing quests and discovering the throne of tides.

 

But flash points here are done from a fleet station. You are sitting in a town spamming for group. And once you get one you don't head to the dungeon you take a shuttle. An LFG tool would significantly improve this games grouping system. Make a new character and do the Esseles flash point. Right now on LAUNCH DAY it takes a good 5-10 minutes to get a group together.

 

I actually got mine by sitting in front of the portal to the instance so I could whisper everyone I saw run near it. What happens when most the player base is higher level and not around to even do this? People will just stop doing that flash point all together and take the small shuttle. At least with an LFG system they will be able to get to the fleet, sign up for the flash point and while they are waiting for a possible group to form they can focus more on their trade skills and advanced class and less about spamming a chat.

 

anything pass the Esseles takes a good chunk of time to find imo

[acheros]

sometimes its not being "too lazy" but some times your server just doens't have what you need at that time. If my server doesn't have any tanks looking to do black talon, why should i have to skip doing it? I get that alot of people are afraid that operation finders "kill the community", But if the community was strong enough to begin with, a simple tool like a operation finder won't break it.

[Kirjava]

It's cross server flashpoint I'm worried about... So far I'm loving the fact you have such a tight knit community of people, where you see familiar faces regularly. Really hope that doesn't get messed around with.

 

But yeah, I'd with the OP here. Definitely don't want a dungeon finder.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Kirjava

[ShikyoEnzeru]

I agree, a Flashpoint Finder would indeed set this game down a dark path from which it would never recover. Why? There are so many reasons, but it can be summed up into 3 MAJOR issues." So, with WoW as a very good example of the effects of a dungeon finder, you can see why it's considered the bane of every MMO.

 

1) The Dungeon Finder killed the social aspect of the game. I don't care if you were "antisocial" before the DF came out, it made it so that you didn't friend anyone or even join a guild in order to get a run out of a dungeon that you had quests for. This lead to people who would normally keep the game fresh and alive by helping out other players or getting together regulars from their guild to them just queuing for a random dungeon and standing around in a town. This destroyed the presence of higher level characters in zones and killed the ability to group up for group quests. Which is why group quests either no longer exist in WoW or are soloable.

 

2) The Dungeon Finder made gear way too easy to get. Sure, you could buy gear in BC or early Wotlk, but there was a limit to how many marks you could get a day, and getting that max (once again) almost required you to have a group of players who were geared, experienced, and had the time on their hands to waste. Now, with DF, you can get all of your gear in 2 days, and be all ready to raid (and remember, you can get to this point without a guild or a person in your friends list). So you wonder why the game is "so easy" when the reason for it is not because classes are overpowered or that gear is overpowered, but because it's too easy to group up.

 

3) The Dungeon Finder made the game boring. Yes, boring. Why? Because most players (especially tanks and healers) did the Dungeon Shuffle where they wouldn't quest and just did the same dungeons over and over and over. Granted, before you might end up doing something very similar, but the number of times you did the dungeons were spread so far out (Your max 30 min dps queue is nothing compared to 3 hours just to get 1 run in), that it didn't make them stale. Dungeons also promised nothing in terms of gear, where as now the random LFG gives you a powerful random blue and there are quests in the dungeons that are guaranteed to give you a powerful blue that's geared towards your class and spec. This lead to players being quite overgeared even for instances that should be challenging for them. The fact that boss fights don't even last a minute any more should be a VERY big indicator that the game has turned south.

 

Let it be known without a doubt that if TOR adopts a flashpoint finder, it would mean the end of this game. Whether it be quick or extremely slow, the feature would eventually be the original cause of it's death.

[mazeri]

A server only lfg system IMO is still light years better than chat spam.

 

The key is to make finding a flash point group possible without having to stop having fun to do it.

 

I see alot of people pointing at community building... but I don't see how flash points are the tool to do this. After a few times running a flash point you will get to a point where everyone just knows what to do and no longer does much chatting. I am already seeing this in the first 4 flash points.

 

I think the real community building will come from guilds, raiding and maybe in game events. Beyond that how often do most peaple interact with the "community" out side your guild?

[HonktonkGigolo]

I agree, a Flashpoint Finder would indeed set this game down a dark path from which it would never recover. Why? There are so many reasons, but it can be summed up into 3 MAJOR issues." So, with WoW as a very good example of the effects of a dungeon finder, you can see why it's considered the bane of every MMO.

 

And I'll reply to each of your "major" issues individually.

 

1) The Dungeon Finder killed the social aspect of the game. I don't care if you were "antisocial" before the DF came out, it made it so that you didn't friend anyone or even join a guild in order to get a run out of a dungeon that you had quests for. This lead to people who would normally keep the game fresh and alive by helping out other players or getting together regulars from their guild to them just queuing for a random dungeon and standing around in a town. This destroyed the presence of higher level characters in zones and killed the ability to group up for group quests. Which is why group quests either no longer exist in WoW or are soloable.

 

I've read through this issue a couple of times, but I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean by this, so I'll answer it based on how I interpret it. You're saying that a dungeon finder caused high level players to not want to help low level players through other dungeons/group quests? You do realize the dungeon finder spans from level 10 through 85 in WoW, right? Also, they have a separate tab you can use to put yourself into a server-wide LFG for group quests. I'm not sure how this is an issue? It actually helps both sides by allow the higher leveled player continue on their path while grouping the lower level person with individuals suited for the content.

 

2) The Dungeon Finder made gear way too easy to get. Sure, you could buy gear in BC or early Wotlk, but there was a limit to how many marks you could get a day, and getting that max (once again) almost required you to have a group of players who were geared, experienced, and had the time on their hands to waste. Now, with DF, you can get all of your gear in 2 days, and be all ready to raid (and remember, you can get to this point without a guild or a person in your friends list). So you wonder why the game is "so easy" when the reason for it is not because classes are overpowered or that gear is overpowered, but because it's too easy to group up.

 

You just said it yourself. Badges/tokens were available pre-dungeon finder. Blizzard/Activision made a decision to allow for end bosses of dungeons to drop tokens/badges in WotLK. This does not have a direct correlation with a dungeon finder. They had already began experimenting with this project by introducing tier equivalent gear in TBC. Blizzard had positive feedback on it and took it a step further. Also, just a heads-up, gear is not equal to skill. Just another EPEEN meter.

 

3) The Dungeon Finder made the game boring. Yes, boring. Why? Because most players (especially tanks and healers) did the Dungeon Shuffle where they wouldn't quest and just did the same dungeons over and over and over. Granted, before you might end up doing something very similar, but the number of times you did the dungeons were spread so far out (Your max 30 min dps queue is nothing compared to 3 hours just to get 1 run in), that it didn't make them stale. Dungeons also promised nothing in terms of gear, where as now the random LFG gives you a powerful random blue and there are quests in the dungeons that are guaranteed to give you a powerful blue that's geared towards your class and spec. This lead to players being quite overgeared even for instances that should be challenging for them. The fact that boss fights don't even last a minute any more should be a VERY big indicator that the game has turned south.

 

Wait, so a game is boring because a person other than you chooses to play a tank or a healer and decides to level solely on dungeons? You should send this person a freaking medal. They just made it that much easier for you to get into a dungeon. There's one more tank or healer now in the queue, primed and ready for you to join their group! You should be ecstatic that people enjoy playing the game they pay for this way. It only benefits you. Also, you do realize Blizzard added a random "blue" to each goodie bag because people were complaining that they weren't receiving anything from a dungeon run, right? They felt as though running an early-level dungeon netted them nothing that questing couldn't.

 

Let it be known without a doubt that if TOR adopts a flashpoint finder, it would mean the end of this game. Whether it be quick or extremely slow, the feature would eventually be the original cause of it's death.

 

Of course it'll be the end of the game. Because lord knows that if anything changes, it spells doom. Convenience and leisure shouldn't be allowed in a hobby such as gaming. Infringement is being brought down upon those who live, eat and breath this game. Honestly, a Flashpoint Finder will not be the end of this game just like the dungeon finder hasn't killed WoW. Everyone around you is adapting and that scares you. It's ok. New things aren't as scary as they appear, I promise.

[TipsyDrow]

Copied and pasted my reply from another thread on same topic.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flovius

/bump

 

right on OP

 

People need to stop crying about running pugs with a quest finder. Don't use it then. simple

 

I m tired of yelling in general chat to run flashpoints or Heroics.

 

DDO used a lfg app and it worked perfectly. And if leroy Jenkins wanted to join, we didnt let him.

 

LEEEROOOOOY JENKINSSSSS!!!

 

Oh dear *ahem* sorry bout that. But yes this ^ What Flovius said. DDO simply had a tab, you clicked on it, you picked oyur quest the lvl range and classes you wanted and put up a lfg. people then clicked on your lfg and from there, you could talk to them, accept them or make them go away, very easy, very efficient. I for one am all for something like that.

[ThanosTitan]

Where does everyone get the idea that the LFG tool hurt WoW? The lfg tool has been inplemented a long time, and WoW has only seen growth until very recently. No ones forcing you to use it. Want to be an text spammer? You still can! I would rather not have to spend 20 minutes sweet talking you just to find out how bad you are or listen to you lie to me about how good your gear is, when I could just vote kick you and hope the next guy isnt as bad as your sorry ***.

[RachelAnne]

Where does everyone get the idea that the LFG tool hurt WoW? The lfg tool has been inplemented a long time, and WoW has only seen growth until very recently. No ones forcing you to use it. Want to be an text spammer? You still can! I would rather not have to spend 20 minutes sweet talking you just to find out how bad you are or listen to you lie to me about how good your gear is, when I could just vote kick you and hope the next guy isnt as bad as your sorry ***.

 

People like you are the reason why a LFG tool ruins an MMO. Thanks for pointing that out!

[belialle]

I am fine with an LFG tool.....but only if it is server-specific. I don't want to group with people from other servers. For one thing, I like meeting new people on my server. Sometimes they are nice, and it's always fun to make new friends and acquaintances.

 

Sometimes I'd actually meet great people in the WoW dungeon finder, and we'd chain dungeons together and have a great time chatting and doing our thing.....and it was always a bummer that I could never group with them again or add them to my friends list.

 

The dungeon finder didn't ruin WoW.....not exactly. It was really the fact that it was multi-server, so there were no social consequences for bad behavior. It also diminished the sense of community.....but if it had been server specific, it might have been very different.

Edited December 21, 2011 by belialle

[Ohaiguis]

Spamming in fleet is not = to community, however... The LFG system IS SERVER WIDE but ppl don't know how to use it yet... If you got into "who" it automatically searches what planet ur on, clear the name and search and it's everyone. If ppl would pay attention and lrn2lrn, you could go around and quest. Bioware, sticky a thread about how to use the social tab and eliminate the ignorance... Sick of it

 

 

Edit: Did you also know that if you include the instance name also in ur lfg comment and someone searches that name (i.e. "Hammer Station") in the social tab your lfg will come up? Information is magical isn't it?

Edited December 21, 2011 by Ohaiguis

[HonktonkGigolo]

Spamming in fleet is not = to community, however... The LFG system IS SERVER WIDE but ppl don't know how to use it yet... If you got into "who" it automatically searches what planet ur on, clear the name and search and it's everyone. If ppl would pay attention and lrn2lrn, you could go around and quest. Bioware, sticky a thread about how to use the social tab and eliminate the ignorance... Sick of it

 

It truly everyone? Or is it capped at a max of say 50 or 100 people? Because right now, if it is capped, it's not really helping all that much. I would test in game, but I've logged out for the night.

[belialle]

Spamming in fleet is not = to community, however... The LFG system IS SERVER WIDE but ppl don't know how to use it yet... If you got into "who" it automatically searches what planet ur on, clear the name and search and it's everyone. If ppl would pay attention and lrn2lrn, you could go around and quest. Bioware, sticky a thread about how to use the social tab and eliminate the ignorance... Sick of it

 

 

It would also be nice if they added better filters and let us search server-wide, rather than merely planet-wide.

Edited December 21, 2011 by belialle

[JogelBolla]

if they put in a flashpoint finder they can limit it to each server. that way your still meeting people you would meet anyway if you spent half an hour traveling from planet to planet looking for anyone interested in doing the flashpoint. Edited December 21, 2011 by JogelBolla

[JogelBolla]

Spamming in fleet is not = to community, however... The LFG system IS SERVER WIDE but ppl don't know how to use it yet... If you got into "who" it automatically searches what planet ur on, clear the name and search and it's everyone. If ppl would pay attention and lrn2lrn, you could go around and quest. Bioware, sticky a thread about how to use the social tab and eliminate the ignorance... Sick of it

 

 

Edit: Did you also know that if you include the instance name also in ur lfg comment and someone searches that name (i.e. "Hammer Station") in the social tab your lfg will come up? Information is magical isn't it?

 

if this is true then its not working for me. i can type in anything and i still get the same results over and over again

 

Is there a way to expand the social tab? the last column is always cut off.

Edited December 21, 2011 by JogelBolla

[Astron_]

I agree, a Flashpoint Finder would indeed set this game down a dark path from which it would never recover. Why? There are so many reasons, but it can be summed up into 3 MAJOR issues." So, with WoW as a very good example of the effects of a dungeon finder, you can see why it's considered the bane of every MMO.

 

1) The Dungeon Finder killed the social aspect of the game. I don't care if you were "antisocial" before the DF came out, it made it so that you didn't friend anyone or even join a guild in order to get a run out of a dungeon that you had quests for. This lead to people who would normally keep the game fresh and alive by helping out other players or getting together regulars from their guild to them just queuing for a random dungeon and standing around in a town. This destroyed the presence of higher level characters in zones and killed the ability to group up for group quests. Which is why group quests either no longer exist in WoW or are soloable.

 

2) The Dungeon Finder made gear way too easy to get. Sure, you could buy gear in BC or early Wotlk, but there was a limit to how many marks you could get a day, and getting that max (once again) almost required you to have a group of players who were geared, experienced, and had the time on their hands to waste. Now, with DF, you can get all of your gear in 2 days, and be all ready to raid (and remember, you can get to this point without a guild or a person in your friends list). So you wonder why the game is "so easy" when the reason for it is not because classes are overpowered or that gear is overpowered, but because it's too easy to group up.

 

3) The Dungeon Finder made the game boring. Yes, boring. Why? Because most players (especially tanks and healers) did the Dungeon Shuffle where they wouldn't quest and just did the same dungeons over and over and over. Granted, before you might end up doing something very similar, but the number of times you did the dungeons were spread so far out (Your max 30 min dps queue is nothing compared to 3 hours just to get 1 run in), that it didn't make them stale. Dungeons also promised nothing in terms of gear, where as now the random LFG gives you a powerful random blue and there are quests in the dungeons that are guaranteed to give you a powerful blue that's geared towards your class and spec. This lead to players being quite overgeared even for instances that should be challenging for them. The fact that boss fights don't even last a minute any more should be a VERY big indicator that the game has turned south.

 

Let it be known without a doubt that if TOR adopts a flashpoint finder, it would mean the end of this game. Whether it be quick or extremely slow, the feature would eventually be the original cause of it's death.

 

The most ridicolous thing I've ever heard. People like you are living in complete denial and think that if you set the MMO-genre back 8 years, everything will be sooo much better.

 

A properly made LFD-tool is way better than spamming a chatchannel for a group. Spamming a chat-channel has got absolutely nothing to do with building a community.

[evildestroyer]

I like how fools are against a LFG finder. I dont like spamming chat looking for a party for an hour its a waste of my damn time. A LFG finder that is cross server is perfect like the type that is in Rift.

 

Example in Rift it takes minutes or seconds at times (if you are a tank or healer) to get in a party for a dungeon, so what the hell is wrong with it. People have a life they dont want to spend 1 hour spamming chat. maybe you guys like it but i for one support a LFG finder.

[Baleur]

Please do not make a Flashpoint finder if people are too lazy to find a group they don't need to do one. When I played the MMO that shall not be named and they implemented the dungeon finder it screwed everything up. Yes it was easier to get into dungeons and faster but it took away the whole point of an MMO to meet new people and play with them. When you grouped with someone through the dungeon finder from another server, or even from the same server, it took away the whole sense of a community of players trying to accomplish something in game. It made people unaccountable for how they treated people and acted. At least on a server people have a better chance to put together a group of people that want to work together and not just quit at the first sign of a problem because they can reque in 15 minutes if they drop group. Keep group finding the way it is now don't make it anonymous.

 

Yes, i much rather see "LFG Hammer. LFG Hammer dps. LFG Hammer tank!! PLZ!!! LFG Hammer LAST SPOT PLZ HEALER. LFG HAMEMR HEALER NOW!"

Spammed in General. Every single minute. every single day. every single week.

 

No, please let us get flashpoint finders. This has to stop, we can't even chat in General.

[pheuno]

Yes, i much rather see "LFG Hammer. LFG Hammer dps. LFG Hammer tank!! PLZ!!! LFG Hammer LAST SPOT PLZ HEALER. LFG HAMEMR HEALER NOW!"

Spammed in General. Every single minute. every single day. every single week.

 

No, please let us get flashpoint finders. This has to stop, we can't even chat in General.

 

I agree, I hope general spam gets as high as it was in WoW before lfg tool(atleast in my server). There you got 0.1sec time to read lfg writing before it was gone and you had to scroll up. Maybe then people will realise that flashpoint finder is needed.

[Ohaiguis]

It truly everyone? Or is it capped at a max of say 50 or 100 people? Because right now, if it is capped, it's not really helping all that much. I would test in game, but I've logged out for the night.

 

I edited my post to Include more specifics. If ppl would set a note regarding their lfg like "hammer station" you can search that too... You can so search level ranges and look for ppl that way... And it shows the top 100 ppl but you can organize the result by prioritizing ppl that are lfg to show up first... It's like a search engine online ppl ... Car = Alot of results. Red Car = fewer. Red dodge car = fewer yet. Red 2011 dodge charger 4.7 liter v8 = bingo!... Only problem is it requires PEOPLE to understand what's needed to be input to be found

Edited December 21, 2011 by Ohaiguis

[ThanosTitan]

People like you are the reason why a LFG tool ruins an MMO. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

Translation: I am the baddy that wastes your time and lies about my gear level.

[Nemestine]

I believe that what destroyed the community in wow was the cross server nature of the group finder and not the tool itself. Especially if you are coming from a roleplaying server. If they add something like this in TOR i hope it will be server restricted

[Seltron]

Carriage return, can you use it?

[Orisai]

I believe that what destroyed the community in wow was the cross server nature of the group finder and not the tool itself. Especially if you are coming from a roleplaying server. If they add something like this in TOR i hope it will be server restricted

 

The only way it could be server restricted and also quick so you don't have to wait for more than 30min on queue, is that they add a Bolster mechanic to it, so everyone, no matter what level they are, can use it like in the Warzones. Of course, it just simply doesn't work in PvE.

[Nitewolfe]

Please do not make a Flashpoint finder if people are too lazy to find a group they don't need to do one. When I played the MMO that shall not be named and they implemented the dungeon finder it screwed everything up. Yes it was easier to get into dungeons and faster but it took away the whole point of an MMO to meet new people and play with them. When you grouped with someone through the dungeon finder from another server, or even from the same server, it took away the whole sense of a community of players trying to accomplish something in game. It made people unaccountable for how they treated people and acted. At least on a server people have a better chance to put together a group of people that want to work together and not just quit at the first sign of a problem because they can reque in 15 minutes if they drop group. Keep group finding the way it is now don't make it anonymous.

 

This game is in bad need of a lfd system!

I disagree with your reasons for the community in wow going down hill. The community went down hill due to the massive population increase not the lfd.

When you have as many players as these games have now you get more bad apples!

If the lfd is cross server with a server only option and set so you can never be grouped with some one on your ignore list we all win!

 

If you do not like using t he lfd to form a group you STILL have all the old tools to do so. Chats, friends list and guilds would not go away. Use your outdated system while the rest of us use the better one!

 

It is just a matter of time before a lfd gets put in. Every major mmo today now has a lfg system. Its common place and one of those things players are going to expect when they buy swtor.