So pubs can be lesbians but imps not?

[LordGarmaZabi]

FIrst of all, you suck.

Second of all, there are obvious romances that could work. Take Jaesa for example, there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to romance her as a female. The fact that there are no gay romances is just a reflection of standards. It's not common so it's not in the game, simple as that.

 

Except that the end of Jaesa's story arc is all about her wanting to have your babies...

[Tatile]

Except that the end of Jaesa's story arc is all about her wanting to have your babies...

 

We have genetic manipulation to allow inter-species breeding (regardless of how genetically viable you might think that to be) you really think shoving two ova together is that much of a big deal?

[StarMagus]

Except that the end of Jaesa's story arc is all about her wanting to have your babies...

 

Light side, I don't remember her ever saying she wanted to have my babies. I do remember my character encouraging her to have children some time, and her being happy with the idea of me training them.

[LordGarmaZabi]

Light side, I don't remember her ever saying she wanted to have my babies. I do remember my character encouraging her to have children some time, and her being happy with the idea of me training them.

 

She's unromancable LS, so I assume this was about DS.

[Lesaberisa]

LS Jaesa/children:

. It's very clinical and (in my opinon) icky - "let's have babies so we can have uber-LS Sith for the future" Edited November 8, 2013 by Lesaberisa

[Tatile]

LS Jaesa/children:

. It's very clinical and (in my opinon) icky - "let's have babies so we can have uber-LS Sith for the future"

 

LS-Sith eugenics?

[StarMagus]

LS Jaesa/children:

. It's very clinical and (in my opinon) icky - "let's have babies so we can have uber-LS Sith for the future"

 

I didn't get that dialog, it's clearly driven by suggestion something to her rather than something she brings up without you saying so in the first place.

 

I mean even watching it the Sith is the one that says they should have kids together, she then agrees from a logical point of view. What's interesting is that in that conversation my Sith character told her that she should consider having children some day and that when she did my guy would be happy to help train them and would consider them part of his family/clan just like she was. There was no suggestion from either side that they should have kids together.

[Lesaberisa]

If you flirt with Vette in any way, I think you get the other version of this conversation (where Jaesa will not have your children).

 

I was specifically referring to this version, though - I think it's a creepy how clinical/detached it is (although it's appropriate for a Sith, I guess). I was also just linking it because someone on the previous page seemed unaware the conversation existed.

 

Edit: And also what Tat said.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Lesaberisa

[Tatile]

I didn't get that dialog, it's clearly driven by suggestion something to her rather than something she brings up without you saying so in the first place.

 

I mean even watching it the Sith is the one that says they should have kids together, she then agrees from a logical point of view. What's interesting is that in that conversation my Sith character told her that she should consider having children some day and that when she did my guy would be happy to help train them and would consider them part of his family/clan just like she was. There was no suggestion from either side that they should have kids together.

 

This has got to be the only time when you don't romance a female companion, and yet still the "women=baby factory" thing holds. I swear, that bizarre instance on having children being the only way to adult is reaching obsessive levels in Austin.

[StarMagus]

If you flirt with Vette in any way, I think you get the other version of this conversation (where Jaesa will not have your children).

 

I was specifically referring to this version, though - I think it's a creepy how clinical/detached it is (although it's appropriate for a Sith, I guess). I was also just linking it because someone on the previous page seemed unaware the conversation existed.

 

It doesn't surprise me, Light Side Jaesa might as well be a droid.. no that's not fair to droids.. for all the emotion she displays. When you have no emotions about anything, why wouldn't child birth be a clinical choice as well?

[Tatile]

I was specifically referring to this version, though - I think it's a creepy how clinical/detached it is (although it's appropriate for a Sith, I guess). I was also just linking it because someone on the previous page seemed unaware the conversation existed.

 

It comes across that way, as it seems to be based in a consequentialist/utilitarian value system of amoral "goodness" judgements.

[Lesaberisa]

It doesn't surprise me, Light Side Jaesa might as well be a droid.. no that's not fair to droids.. for all the emotion she displays. When you have no emotions about anything, why wouldn't child birth be a clinical choice as well?

 

I'm not sure what your point is?

 

It makes sense (sort of) from a story point of view, I just find it icky they decided to throw in a scene where an otherwise chaste/uninterested character agrees to have babies so the warrior can create uber-Force users.

[Tatile]

I'm not sure what your point is?

 

It makes sense (sort of) from a story point of view, I just find it icky they decided to throw in a scene where an otherwise chaste/uninterested character agrees to have babies so the warrior can create uber-Force users.

 

*cough*institutionalised misogyny and the 'need' for women to be present in this game only for the satisfaction of men*cough*

[StarMagus]

I'm not sure what your point is?

 

It makes sense (sort of) from a story point of view, I just find it icky they decided to throw in a scene where an otherwise chaste/uninterested character agrees to have babies so the warrior can create uber-Force users.

 

I don't even think it's that. She has the ability to do something that from a logical point of view only a small subset of the population can. Not only does somebody have to be female, but they have to be of a species that can have children with the sith in question. It's really no different than her offering to use her abilities to go find other light side sith. In fact it ties together as the Force has been shown to carry strongly in the blood line. From a non-emotional side of view having kids between two powerful force users makes 100% logical sense.

 

The problem is we as viewers aren't emotionless and having children in our culture has a huge amount of emotional baggage to it.

 

She has a certain set of skills/abilities/powers that some of them had nothing to do with her choice in the matter.. she didn't ask to be able to sense for light side sith, or to be born female, but because she has those abilities she can do certain things to help the cause.

 

It's like asking Broonmark? Gah.. I'm horrible with names to go stealth on a snow planet and kill somebody. His skills involve stealth, ((from the cut scenes he loses the power when he joins you)) and the fat that he's a killer warrior and pretty savage. It's not being speciest to ask him to do that, that's just one of his many abilities.

Edited November 8, 2013 by StarMagus

[LordGarmaZabi]

*cough*institutionalised misogyny and the 'need' for women to be present in this game only for the satisfaction of men*cough*

 

Woah, I think you are crossing the line into contrived controversy territory. LS Jaesa is still a Jedi, she even refers to herself as such, so within the context it's reasonable. While certainly a strange scene, given the detached nature of the Jedi Order, it's a very Jedi way to go about reproducing. The only thing to be offended over is how utterly dull she is.

[Tatile]

Woah, I think you are crossing the line into contrived controversy territory. LS Jaesa is still a Jedi, she even refers to herself as such, so within the context it's reasonable. While certainly a strange scene, given the detached nature of the Jedi Order, it's a very Jedi way to go about reproducing. The only thing to be offended over is how utterly dull she is.

 

I'm talking with reference to the game as a whole, when we take into consideration a number of factors. In vacuum, each and every incident might be explainable, but taken as a whole, we get an interesting trend. That's not to say that the decisions behind these incidents were necessarily conscious, nor that there is some nefarious, moustache twirling, monocled mastermind, but that doesn't mean we can't at least look at the differences. If I had the time (and the willing participation of Bioware, of course) it's something I'd like to examine in more depth, as the representation and use of women and femininity in games is interesting to me and, while under almost constant attack and query, nothing much seems to be changing (if it is, it is being done extremely slowly. Likewise with race.)

 

We have discussed it much in the SGRA thread, where such things are allowed, because of blindness

[Brittaany_Banks]

Or what?

 

(http://dulfy.net/2013/03/26/swtor-makeb-macrobinoculars-and-seeker-droids-preview/)

 

This is rather annoying. I was glad we finally got some SGR content with Makeb, but since I only play female characters in the empire... I'm out of luck, or what?

 

Why is it only homosexuals (well the majority are homosexual) care about ANY aspect of the in game romance options? Generally you ask any straight person what they think about the romances in SWTOR and you'll usually get the same answer...

 

"IDGAF about the romance in SWTOR. It's a joke anyway."

 

Your romance with companions/npcs does NOTHING for you in the game. It is fluff, filler, content to make you think the game has substance in that particular area of the story but it doesn't yet same gender oriented players care about it so much. Why?

[Tatile]

Because they don't have it? Because not having it in the game is just another way - in the multitudes and multitudes of ways - of saying "you don't belong"? Because this is a Bioware game and they're supposedly progressive? Because it's not fair?

 

And you don't need to be a lesbian to be interested in the companion romances, nor do you have to be gay to be interested in the class stories. I'm neither, and yet...

 

Not to mention you are out-of-hand dismissing a person's concerns about their game play, because it's not something you're interested in. Big freaking deal, you don't care? Wow, amazing! I don't care about PvP, but I don't hang around on the PvP boards telling them to get over their lack of World Arena Zones, or whatever it is they like.

[Brittaany_Banks]

This has got to be the only time when you don't romance a female companion, and yet still the "women=baby factory" thing holds. I swear, that bizarre instance on having children being the only way to adult is reaching obsessive levels in Austin.

 

What else can be a baby factory other than a woman? Do you understand how ludicrous your statement sounds? Paraphrased it sounds like this...

 

"Why do women always get portrayed as baby factories? We're not baby factories!"

 

Uh yes you are. You can make a baby hence you are a baby factory. If I made Popsicle stick houses with my bare hands (well with Popsicle sticks and glue) I'd be a Popsicle stick house factory.

[Tatile]

The level of your ignorance astounds me. What I am objecting to, is the objectification of women and our reduction to little more than our supposed reproductive functions. I cannot even begin to argue this with you, your misogyny is so apparent.

[LordGarmaZabi]

Because they don't have it? Because not having it in the game is just another way - in the multitudes and multitudes of ways - of saying "you don't belong"? Because this is a Bioware game and they're supposedly progressive? Because it's not fair?

 

And you don't need to be a lesbian to be interested in the companion romances, nor do you have to be gay to be interested in the class stories. I'm neither, and yet...

 

Not to mention you are out-of-hand dismissing a person's concerns about their game play, because it's not something you're interested in. Big freaking deal, you don't care? Wow, amazing! I don't care about PvP, but I don't hang around on the PvP boards telling them to get over their lack of World Arena Zones, or whatever it is they like.

 

And you could make that point were we to ignore most every Bioware release in rec ent history (KOTOR, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 1, and 3, and even Rise of the Hutt Cartel.) I assume you think gays should have equal rights, which is all well, and good, I agree, however, not including gay characters in a game is not discrimination, and it seems fairly clear, as evidenced by the games above, that Bioware is not anti gay. You don't get to go around, demanding they include SGRA, or what else they are bigoted, esp. after they actually include it. They don't have to include anything. The anti Bioware slander in many of the threads like this are frankly nerve grating.

[Tatile]

There are a lot of things game companies don't "have" to do, from a legal sense, or even from the multitude of relative moral stances (morality is, after all, entirely relative), but there's a growing school of thought that inclusion and diversity are just better suited for the positions that the current zeitgeist would wish we find ourselves in. Yes, Bioware is "better" at this than many other games companies of their ilk (as I mentioned "supposedly progressive"), they are by no means perfect, but if Bioware considered any of my observations particularly libellous, I'm sure they would have done something about it.

 

They are very hetero-centric a lot of the time, I should say, and while that's not quite the same as being homophobic, one tends to end up with similar results. If you find me grating, pop me on your ignore list, I don't mind.

[AelixVII]

Why is it only homosexuals (well the majority are homosexual) care about ANY aspect of the in game romance options? Generally you ask any straight person what they think about the romances in SWTOR and you'll usually get the same answer...

 

LOL because we get shafted when it comes to choice? oh wait... I forgot, we didn't even get 1 SGR option given to us when the game launched by a company that is known to provide them in their other RPG games. We had to wait until Makeb to get a sub-par, temporary one.

 

I'm pretty damn sure if they decided to make this game with 100% SGR only options the majority would moan like buggery about not being able to pick anything else.

 

OH WAIT.

 

When Makeb launched and you could only romance a male NPC with a male imp, look how many people complained!

 

You are trivializing the issue by targeting it as something that 'shouldn't be considered important to the overall gameplay'. That completely sidesteps what the problem is.

 

We don't give a damn that it's about the romance options, we are making a fuss about it because of the way they have handled a whole demographic of players and what they expected to be able to choose.

 

How ridiculous would it be if they decided from launch that players who pick body type 4, every female character or heaven forbid, a darker skin colour would be locked out of Warzones completely. How much of an uproar would there be by angry, confused players who just couldn't see WHY they did that?

 

What else can be a baby factory other than a woman? Do you understand how ludicrous your statement sounds? Paraphrased it sounds like this...

 

"Why do women always get portrayed as baby factories? We're not baby factories!"

 

Uh yes you are. You can make a baby hence you are a baby factory. If I made Popsicle stick houses with my bare hands (well with Popsicle sticks and glue) I'd be a Popsicle stick house factory.

Factories are about mass production, like sperm, for instance... Do you see what I did there?

 

http://i.qkme.me/3tjhhk.jpg

Edited November 9, 2013 by AelixVII

[Seireeni]

Why is it only homosexuals (well the majority are homosexual) care about ANY aspect of the in game romance options? Generally you ask any straight person what they think about the romances in SWTOR and you'll usually get the same answer...

 

"IDGAF about the romance in SWTOR. It's a joke anyway."

 

Your romance with companions/npcs does NOTHING for you in the game. It is fluff, filler, content to make you think the game has substance in that particular area of the story but it doesn't yet same gender oriented players care about it so much. Why?

 

Hi. A straight person here, and I love the romances in SWTOR. If I had to choose between a new, romancable companion and a new operation, it would be the companion. You may not think it's real content, but there are people (like me) who think it IS real content. They add a little drama to the stories and make them more interesting. Of course, a deep friendship with a npc would probably do the same thing, but I haven't yet found a npc I could develop such a friendship with (outclueding companions, of course). So it's either a professional relationship or romance, and I have to say, romance is way more interesting.

 

Also I have to admit, I love to watch/read when two characters I like are in love with each other (Or even being sweet to each other), no matter if it's in a movie, a book or a game. And since I more or less like all my characters, all I need for my special "awwww, they are so cute!"-moments is another cute character.

[markcymru]

I'm pretty damn sure if they decided to make this game with 100% SGR only options the majority would moan like buggery about not being able to pick anything else.

Nice one, Aelix ! !