The 2.0 feedback thread(s).

[glocklB]

PvE I think things are improving, but for pvp -

Lets look at a little history :

 

We have been nerfed directly and indirectly repeatedly sense the game launched.

 

All traited dammage increases were reduced

Force regen was nerfed for healer

Electrocute nerfed to 10m

Overload nerfed to directional cone

Dark Infusion cast time reduction nerf

Stat weights all changed to add a +20% DPS boost over healing

Dropping adrenals and just making relics have that much power/ surge all the time, but read above. - healing nerf

Changed expertice to cancel out the dammage boost on a player instead of players reducing another players dammage all the time, another healing nerf.

healing is already nerfed 40% by trauma

--- new nerfs----

Instant whirlwind gone "because of assasins"

Electric bindings moved to the almost top of the lightning tree

Bubble Stunn nerf " agree with this",but I think now it only AE blinds if you click it off if a player breaks it it dont do anything - why even bother now? not to sure about that last part.

Melee got more roots and snares on top of leaps and pulls

-25% armor

- 10% increase to traited static barrier @ 5% per point from 10% per point

 

What I would LOVE to see is somthing like this :

 

Force Barrier has been removed and sorcerers can now phase walk.

 

Static Barrier now scales with Willpower and Power and while static barrier is active the sorcerer is immune to Force Charge "leaps" and pulls." at least make melee beat it off me first not just leap from 30m away from the start it has a hard CD debuff and now all the new snares and roots this is needed."

 

Lightning Barrage can now be triggered by Lightning Strike critical hits as well as Affliction critical hits.

Electric Bindings has been moved and is now a T2 ability in the lightning tree.

Eletric bindings now also causes your Overload to knock back targets in 360 degrees.

The cooldown on Polarity Shift has been reduced to 1 minuite.

Polarity shift now also grants the ability to cast while moving for 10 seconds

Force Lightning is now considered a "periodic effect" as well as a channeled ability

replace the 2% defence increase per point in madness "sorcerer only" with

Pain mastery - All perodic effects are now hasened by 50% 25% per point allowing dammage over time effects to do their total dammage in 1/2 the duration, - near the top of the tree, and yes it effects force lightning.

Put back instant whirlwind

 

This would be a good start

 

LOL What? This would be a good start? :D I guess I should thank BW for keeping you away from balancing in this game

[Khalij]

My personal opinion on the blink is that Sorcerers should have gotten the teleport and Assassins should have gotten the barrier. The teleport along with root immune force speed as baseline would have been a godsend to Sorcerers and solved a lot of pvp issues, but it couldn't be that way and they decided to make us take MORE damage /sigh

 

Blink on a short cooldown, that removes stuns, slows, and roots, would be a godsend. Anything less wouldn't completely address the issue. 25% less armor??? I'm not touching my sorc again till we get more defensive abilities...

Edited April 3, 2013 by Khalij

[Kindran]

Blink on a short cooldown, that removes stuns, slows, and roots, would be a godsend. Anything less wouldn't completely address the issue. 25% less armor??? I'm not touching my sorc again till we get more defensive abilities...

 

If force speed had immunity as baseline then we wouldn't need such a blink as Force Speed is a 15sec (10sec in lightning) cooldown in 2.0. Having a selected teleport every now and then would be nice instead of a stupid delay death by 10sec ability. If you are talking about blink replacing force speed then that could work, but having both blink and speed would be a tad OP imo.

 

You are right on the defensive part though. It does suck big time.

[paowee]

If force speed had immunity as baseline then we wouldn't need such a blink as Force Speed is a 15sec (10sec in lightning) cooldown in 2.0. Having a selected teleport every now and then would be nice instead of a stupid delay death by 10sec ability.

 

Did you just call Force Barrier a stupid ability?

 

>_<...

 

Force Barrier is like Undying Rage but lasts longer (and unfortunately has a cooldown timer just as long). It acts as a "2nd life" wherein another healer can heal you back up to full and you wait for any cooldowns to come back up. when and If arenas ever come to this game, i sincerely doubt anyone will even entertain the thought that force barrier is a stupid ability. In operations it also has a lot of uses and has helped my healers a lot as well as saving my life a couple of times.

 

I would've preferred if it lasted shorter but has a shorter cooldownas well; just my 2c.

Edited April 3, 2013 by paowee

[Kindran]

Did you just call Force Barrier a stupid ability?

 

>_<...

 

Force Barrier is like Undying Rage but lasts longer (and unfortunately has a cooldown timer just as long). It acts as a "2nd life" wherein another healer can heal you back up to full and you wait for any cooldowns to come back up. when and If arenas ever come to this game, i sincerely doubt anyone will even entertain the thought that force barrier is a stupid ability. In operations it also has a lot of uses and has helped my healers a lot as well as saving my life a couple of times.

 

I would've preferred if it lasted shorter but has a shorter cooldownas well; just my 2c.

 

force barrier is hardly like undying rage. UR allows you to use your abilities while basically immune to damage for 4sec. FB forces you to stand still and not able to do anything up to 10sec. UR >> FB. If you were in the pts you would have seen all the jokes about people just counting down when the sorc pops FB then killing the Sorc after.

 

FB is a stupid ability. If arenas do come out the strat will be force a Sorc to use FB and then switch till the Sorc can be killed again. The exact same strat as iceblock in WoW.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Kindran

[veyl]

If force speed had immunity as baseline then we wouldn't need such a blink as Force Speed is a 15sec (10sec in lightning) cooldown in 2.0. Having a selected teleport every now and then would be nice instead of a stupid delay death by 10sec ability. If you are talking about blink replacing force speed then that could work, but having both blink and speed would be a tad OP imo.

 

You are right on the defensive part though. It does suck big time.

 

My original post (If you click the link within it) makes "blink" replace force speed entirely for Sorcs. Essentially giving Sorcs a Blink and Assassins keeping Force Speed (since they can immunity while speeding with a CD).

 

The defensive thing is where the issues are and that has been repeated a lot. Blink helps a ton with that and I wish the development team would communicate with us about this. When I was playing my marauder on test, Sorc/Sages were even more destructible with rage then on live. Something has to happen, I doubt a lot of us want to shelve our sorcs for pvp.

[dscount]

My original post (If you click the link within it) makes "blink" replace force speed entirely for Sorcs. Essentially giving Sorcs a Blink and Assassins keeping Force Speed (since they can immunity while speeding with a CD).

 

The defensive thing is where the issues are and that has been repeated a lot. Blink helps a ton with that and I wish the development team would communicate with us about this. When I was playing my marauder on test, Sorc/Sages were even more destructible with rage then on live. Something has to happen, I doubt a lot of us want to shelve our sorcs for pvp.

 

Yup! I agree. I think the repeatable theme is loss of survival and group utility. Stun bubbles had to go, but giving us a self-stun bubble for 10 sec was silly.

 

Maybe instead of a NERF to our static bubbles we get a nasty BUFF to our own (Along with the instant heal option already included).

 

I do like the idea of swapping the self stun bubble with Shadow/Assassin class for Phase Walk. That would be more in line with what I thought was going to happen as well.

[Sartanis]

Great information and I agree totally with what you and others have stated. However, truth be known, the Devs will not reply. Of all the ACs, these Devs have done nothing to improve the QoL for the Sage/Sorcerer. As stated previously, none of them play this class. They simply do not care. It was made apparent when they went live with 1.2 and more so now with the coming of 2.0. Their willful silence speaks volumes as proof positive they will not do anything to bring these two classes inline as DPS classes with the others.

 

They willfully lied to us about giving us something to offset the loss of applying the bubble stun to other classes to improve viability and team support. They flat out lied. These developers cannot be trusted to do anything that will benefit these classes we have chosen to play. The only thing the did do was improve healing so either Sage/Sorcerer can be stronger in this area. DPS still languishes behind the other DPS classes. They nerfed our armor and other defensive capabilities (reduced absorption of our Force Armor/Static Barrier) among others. In my years of game developing I have never seen something as bad as I have seen from these specific developers. They are biased towards these two ACs plain and simple. Their actions or lack thereof in not addressing our concerns in any manner or doing anything to bring the DPS trees to the forefront as the glass cannons they are with the other classes and their nerfing of defensive capabilities is proof positive.

 

I was under the impression that we had no defensive capability left to nerf, but I suppose I as mistaken.

[Aetideus]

PVP looks like useless. If I wanted to play like Sniper I would roll a Sniper and get the Cover instead of this seek and hide. Edited April 5, 2013 by Aetideus

[Xeraz]

Sorc healers are still in a great place.. not sure why anyone would think otherwise. (Besides extremely negative theory-crafting)

[Kindran]

Sorc healers are still in a great place.. not sure why anyone would think otherwise. (Besides extremely negative theory-crafting)

 

Hardly anyone is talking about how healing is for PvP in this thread. It is mostly about dps that has everyone so uptight =p. Sorcerers will still be very good healers with a guard. That is the state with all healers though. They all need guard to do their job well.

 

Sorc healers lost some things like 25% less armor, bubble stun, 10% loss on Static Barrier, and Overload root. The turnaround? They gained things possibly more valuable like lowered force speed CD with longer duration (This is the BIG one), more healing, instant Revivification (can help a bit), sapped strength, and faster innervate.

 

In summery? Sorc healers are still in a good spot.

[Sosajoshua]

Im excited for my new Madness sorc but what will Lightnig Burn be like now that its not a periodic effect. Idky they changed that minor bucf

[Okod]

I'll probably give both DPS specs - and probably some hybrid - a go in PvP, but it's not looking promising. I might just go full Lightning and retire my Sorc to PvE stuff only. I have a couple other classes, and even started a melee char now, that I can continue to use for PvP.

 

It'd be nice, if nothing else, to hear from BW on what play style they actually think Sorc/Sage should have. I've heard other players say we're a kiteing class - but then BW take away out instant single-target mez, move our knock-back root high up one tree, turn team bubble-stun into a self bubble-MEZ (team to self, fine, needed to change, blah blah, stun to mez I think was too far). And of course give other class lots of ways to break roots/snares (but not us, at least not as a baseline ability).

 

Also heard from players saying Sorcs should 'LOS' if we want to win. This of course negates 95%+ damage from Lightning spec, and reduces Madness to 2 ~18s DoTs (Crushing Darkness has a cast time, unless you get the proc from FL which itself has a cast/channel time, neither of which work if you're 'LOSing'), and occasionally Death Field.

 

Not to mention this whole LOSing/hiding thing just isn't very Heroic - remember how we're all supposed to be playing 'Heroic' classes, which is part of why we have companions to run the 'menial' tasks such as crafting. I don't feel very Heroic hiding around a corner, occasionally peeking around the corner (but not too far, in case the enemy sees you and Leaps to you) to throw out a DoT, then hiding again until the bad person dies (or more likely walks off to find something more fun to do). Somebody quipped that if BW really do think we're a LOSing class then instead of the new Barrier they should just give us an ability to summon a pillar to hide behind!

[Sosajoshua]

I just think BW wants to make us Batman's utility belt. Generally, dps or healer sorcs have a fair amount of utilities to help themselves and their groups. In the most basic way, each has heals (and selfheal), friendly pull, force speed, enemy slow, cleanse, and shield. Pretty sure no other class (minus mirror class) can help out as much as a Sorc. Then as you go up in Lightning and Corruption you get further utility with minor root and bubble stun, almost omni-purge, more shield absorption, better heals (and aoe heal) etc. The only tree that only benefits from itself for itself is Madness with a minor pocket heal, now cast CC (though hybrids can access this), slight movement enhancement, defensive abilities (useless for the spec and/or class in reality), and its own minor root.

 

Granted, I love my Madness sorc and my sorc will never stop being my main but from what it looks we are supposed to be the "Holy utility belt, Batman!" to each raid or pvp group. And so, while 2.0 will indeed increase overall Sorc play we are still shown to be utility with a new (IMO useless) ability called Force Barrier. If it were me id make the effects of FB part of Static Barrier for healers or even healer/lightnings and have given Sorcerers a different ability entirely.

[Ilith]

Sorc DPS is not welcome in current (pre 2.0) progression raids in my experience. Sorcs simply Can Not Compete with snipers, mercs, and marauders. If you want to talk utility, snipers get shield, maras get bloodthirst, and commandos have much superior RDPS (with corresponding offheal utility, if you want to bother with it). Go look up torparse for the current endgame bosses and you will not see a single sorc DPS in the top 50. (If you run across one or two, pull up the log and you'll see they 'cheated' by hitting irrelevant targets with DOTs to inflate their numbers. And even so they're not even in the top 20.)

 

As my guildleader says, "Show me the parse". If sorcs could put down the numbers, they'd be welcome. But they can't. So a sniper or a commando gets the invite.

I just think BW wants to make us Batman's utility belt.

 

This is a weird statement considering how little raid utility sorcs actually have in endgame PVE. Most of the 'utility' you listed is irrelevant in boss fights. Here I define 'utility' to mean skills aside from DPS that are useful in a raid setting.

• Force Bubble? Too expensive, use it and go force negative -> DPS loss -> Go home.
  
• Heals? Too slow and too expensive. Having the ability to give yourself spotty self heals is irrelevant and hardly unique: medpacks are universal. I heard all mercs get a group heal in 2.0. That sounds like actual utility to me.
  
• Force Barrier in 2.0 provides no utility at all. At best it's just a cooldown.
  
• Force Pull is the only actual utility I can think of, and it's plainly not worth dropping a mara or a sniper for.
  

 

Whether this will change in 2.0 I don't know, but I do know that sorc 'utility' will have nothing to do with whether I get an raid invite in 2.0. Will DPS improve enough to make this class viable in 2.0 endgame progression PVE? Based on veyl's comments, no. Enjoy your self-only so-called 'utility' while soloing, because that and lower tier Ops are what we're going to be stuck with for another year.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Ilith

[Kindran]

Sorc DPS is not welcome in current (pre 2.0) progression raids in my experience. Sorcs simply Can Not Compete with snipers, mercs, and marauders.

 

TBH Sorcs had a few niche areas in operations. One instance that comes to mind is Kephess in EC NiM. Lightning Sorcs are amazing for this fight, especially on clearing the trandoshians. Kephess in TFB also favors Madness Sorcs quite a bit; grabbing the white orbs, pulling members to pillar if need be, phase 3 movement with DoTs, shock and Death fieldl.

 

There are a few areas for them, but ya overall they were down near the bottom tier for dps.

[veyl]

Whether this will change in 2.0 I don't know, but I do know that sorc 'utility' will have nothing to do with whether I get an raid invite in 2.0. Will DPS improve enough to make this class viable in 2.0 endgame progression PVE? Based on veyl's comments, no. Enjoy your self-only so-called 'utility' while soloing, because that and lower tier Ops are what we're going to be stuck with for another year.

 

All of my posts are mostly PVP related and I've consistently said that Sorc's would be in a good place for raiding // PVE. I did state that in the opening post. The buffs that sorcs did receive brought them way higher on the damage charts (Snipers are still doing way too much though) and there shouldn't be any reason to NOT bring one. (My internal dummy testing with no debuffs ranged from 2600 - 2700 with Madness // lightning respectfully and full biochem.)

 

What you stated is absolutely true on live though. Everyone else can easily replace the class... in 2.0, raiding should be a lot more viable without feeling like you're bringing the raid down.

 

PVP though... Complete different ball game since you aren't alive long enough to do damage and madness dots are just too slow in the fast pace kill environment.

 

Hope that clarifies. Majority of this thread is PVP related as PVE, I feel sorcs are in a good place. (I just don't like madness because they didn't include the "execute" range ability which would bring madness up to par with lightning)

[Chemic_al]

Well it only remains to thank Bioware for nerfing sorcs in pvp AGAIN and let's not forget, also refusing to respond to any feedback.

 

Cheers!

[tomwaitsern]

I've been thinking about going back to my sorc as my new main in 2.0 and I was wondering about something when it comes to pvp. I've noticed ppl saying that sorcs are nerfed when it comes to pvp but I was wondering how sorcs fare in normal pvp, not ranked warzones. I'm not interested in ranked pvp but are we viable in when it comes to random warzones? The skill cap is generally lower in these...

I'm not taking personal skill into consideration as that is random from player to player but are we generally weaker then most classes?

[Chemic_al]

I'm not taking personal skill into consideration as that is random from player to player but are we generally weaker then most classes?

 

Yes. Have been for ages, and remain so.

 

I saw big hits of around 6k or so for my sorc. Smashies are hitting for 8-10k. It is unbelievable that Bioware didn't change anything.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Chemic_al

[Soxbadger]

The biggest hit I took was about 6-7k damage (that I can remember). I only ran as healer so I cant really tell you how hard sorcs were hitting.

 

I wouldnt take a lot away from warzones right now, especially pre-55. Bolster is doing some really odd things.

[Kindran]

The biggest hit I took was about 6-7k damage (that I can remember). I only ran as healer so I cant really tell you how hard sorcs were hitting.

 

I wouldnt take a lot away from warzones right now, especially pre-55. Bolster is doing some really odd things.

 

Odd things? No, it is doing exactly as was reported in PTS and Bioware/EA just doest care about PvP.

[Larry_Dallas]

TBH Sorcs had a few niche areas in operations. One instance that comes to mind is Kephess in EC NiM. Lightning Sorcs are amazing for this fight, especially on clearing the trandoshians. Kephess in TFB also favors Madness Sorcs quite a bit; grabbing the white orbs, pulling members to pillar if need be, phase 3 movement with DoTs, shock and Death fieldl.

 

There are a few areas for them, but ya overall they were down near the bottom tier for dps.

 

Lightning spec sorc is basically the dream class for fighting Kephess in EC. One will probably be responsible for half of all damage done to a trandoshan pack...they have an offensive cooldown up for every single burn phase...there's little range adjustment to be made when Kephess leaps...they can force speed out of the big circle and pull a bounty hunter with them...pull the bomb planter to make the healers' life easier. The spec is just great for that fight.

[Larry_Dallas]

I've been thinking about going back to my sorc as my new main in 2.0 and I was wondering about something when it comes to pvp. I've noticed ppl saying that sorcs are nerfed when it comes to pvp but I was wondering how sorcs fare in normal pvp, not ranked warzones. I'm not interested in ranked pvp but are we viable in when it comes to random warzones? The skill cap is generally lower in these...

I'm not taking personal skill into consideration as that is random from player to player but are we generally weaker then most classes?

 

On the PTS, pure lightning seemed a truckload stronger, hybrid slightly weaker and madness a lot weaker (due to other classes' buffs).

 

With TB now proccing lightning storm, you'll see a lot of free chain lightnings after you use TB. Big 1-2 punch if the second one crits.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Larry_Dallas

[TwoLekku]

Sorc DPS is not welcome in current (pre 2.0) progression raids in my experience. Sorcs simply Can Not Compete with snipers, mercs, and marauders. If you want to talk utility, snipers get shield, maras get bloodthirst, and commandos have much superior RDPS (with corresponding offheal utility, if you want to bother with it). Go look up torparse for the current endgame bosses and you will not see a single sorc DPS in the top 50. (If you run across one or two, pull up the log and you'll see they 'cheated' by hitting irrelevant targets with DOTs to inflate their numbers. And even so they're not even in the top 20.)

 

As my guildleader says, "Show me the parse". If sorcs could put down the numbers, they'd be welcome. But they can't. So a sniper or a commando gets the invite.

 

Pfft. A lightning or hybrid (i run a hybrid) sorc delivers unparalleled AOE - I top every parse on 3+ enemies (force storm, deathfield, procced chain lightning, rinse/repeat, oh God I just broke the parse). A guild leader who only cares about the parse on a single boss isn't leading any guild that i want to be a part of. Evaluating playability and value based on boss parses alone is so obtuse. The mara lighting up Kephess during EC is only alive because i roasted the Trandoshans.

 

Also, I absolutely compete with mercs - i run with a great merc and we're neck-and-neck in most encounters. Snipers and mara's, played well, can do higher single-target dps, sure, but when things hit the fan and you want a quick extricate, heal, or bubble...show me where that is in the parse. You don't bring a well-played sorc to top dps on a single boss...you bring a well-played sorc to help you get to the boss. And when there are two bosses, you may find that your sorc tops ranged dps anyway. I know I do. (FWIW, dotting Stormcaller while on Firebrand, dotting Toth while on Zorn, dotting the fugly beaver while on the Jealous Male...that's not cheating, that's Learning To Play. And it counts.)

 

Granted, i may go full lightning now in 2.0 because of the skill tree and other changes, but this whole business of only evaluating single-target dps is just. so. terribly. shortsighted.