Headaches with marauders..

[Datku]

Marauders are pure dps...they don't do anything other than beat things. That being said yes a smart marauder should know to lay back a bit in the beginning unless you are agro stacking (explained in a bit) and always be ready to use camo off cool down or when target of target changes to the marauder.

 

As for agro stacking. This comes from discussions on the tank forums and some theory crafting with our guild tanks. Every point of dmg done translates into an amount of agro on a target. If you are agro stacking you want your top dps (be it a marauder, merc, sniper etc) to lay into a boss hard and heavy in the beginning. The tank will use hate generating attacks but no taunts at the very start. Wait what you might be saying right. The idea is to have a marauder go in and burst dmg. Remember every point of dmg translates into an amount of agro. So the Marauder jumps in and bursts while the tank uses a couple attacks that generate additional hate but again they do not taunt just yet. The Marauder WILL pull agro. Once the Marauder pulls agro for a second or two, the tank then taunts (don't taunt going in wait for the top dps to build agro). Taunt will place the tank on the top of the agro list putting the tank higher in threat than the marauder. At that point the marauder needs to camo once the tank taunts and takes agro. This drops the marauders agro significantly. Then the tank can put guard on the marauder to reduce the agro gain the marauder gets attacking and helps the tank stay on top of the agro list.

 

Theory crafting is that if a tank goes in and taunts right off he is top of the agro list but the lack of dmg does't place the tank very high on the agro table. A tank taunts at the start and during that 6-8 seconds where the boss is on the tank the dps are racking up threat that quite possibly will exceed what small value the tank has from the initial taunt and thus pull agro. Picture a table from 0 to 100. At the start of a fight the tank taunts before any dps hits the boss. The tank is placed say 5 out of 100 on the agro table. Meanwhile the dps is climbing the table and at the end of the 6-8 second time where the boss is on the tank, dps could be around 15-20 out of 100. Result once the taunt runs out the boss turns on the dps that is higher on the table than the tank and then the tank must taunt back if able to or let the dps take a beating until the tanks taunt is back up.

 

But if you have a dps go in and the tank only use attacks that increase threat (no taunt yet) in the first few seconds the dps will climb to 10-20 out of 100 on the agro table for example. Yes the dps has agro and will take a hit or two. But if the tank waits for the burst to complete (say marauder ends up at 25 out of 100 on the agro table) then taunts...the tank moves to 26 on the agro table (since taunt moves the tank to the top of the agro list). At which point the marauder camo's (agro dumps) and drops down to say 12 on the table. Additionally after the taunt the tank then puts guard on the marauder to further reduce their agro generation so they can not exceed the tanks position on the agro table during the fight. What this does is places the tank high on the agro table and in most cases (baring agro dumps by the boss) should remain always higher on the agro table than any other member of the raid/group. This is why its easy to pull agro at the start of a fight (tank never climbs high on agro table by themselves) and harder to pull later in a fight (where the tank has taunted additional times to take the top spot on the table over the dps... especially if the dps is agro dumping often).

 

"Agro stackin" lets a tank climb higher on the agro table off their first taunt by letting dps build agro faster than a tank can on their own. Its a timing thing and when done right lets your dps pretty much go full out from start to finish without laying back while a tank builds good threat. This method the tank lets the dps build good threat then puts himself on top of their threat level to take control. Let a dps burst building agro at first and then have the tank taunt to propel themselves up the table while the dps agro dumps and you can pretty much guarantee the tank will keep and hold agro the rest of the fight while your dps goes full tilt from the get go. Just have your dps do one rotation then agro dump at the start of each boss fight and the tank taunt after the dps finish their rotations but before the top dps agro dumps (here is the timing issue) to take the number 1 spot on the agro table by a large margin. When done correctly the tank receives a huge boost to their position on the agro table and can keep control of the boss the rest of the fight while dps goes crazy.

 

DPS need to remember to agro dump off cool down to help the tank maintain top spot or even better if in vent have the tank call out taunt and then have all dps dump agro to maximize the tanks spot on the agro table. Also for those that don't know...in PvE guard does not add additional dmg to the tank from aoe or direct dmg against the one being guarded. The dmg reduction/transfer is only in PvP not PvE. Most times when I pug a group I always laugh and take a bet how many pulls will it take to get the tank to change his guard from the healer to my marauder Usually only takes one pull or even mid pull I will see guard get swapped to me. Only time guarding a healer might be useful is if you have a group of mobs and can't aoe taunt enough to hold them all to the point healing could pull agro but in general guarding a healer only shows to the group that the tank is a noob. You got a mid to well geared tank, a mid to well geared healer, a low to mid geared dps, and a well geared dps. You would be surprised how many times the healer gets guard at the start instead of the well geared dps. Then the tank has to scramble to keep control until he changes guard to the real threat to his control.

 

So either the dps has to hold back at the start of a fight while the tank works to build threat, or you agro stack and let dps build the tanks threat for him. Once the dps takes agro for a second or two and then the tank taunts the placement on the agro table soars for the tank and usually the tank wont loose agro for the rest of the fight (again as long as no agro dump mechanics by the boss and dps keep on top of their dumps). Our raid tank used to have issues keeping agro from my marauder until he started to work with me to maximize his threat. Once we started working together we have been able to maximize dps from the start of a fight through the end of the fight and apart from the start of the fight the tank never looses agro. So either lay back and use weak attacks till your tank feels he has enough agro before you open up, or use the agro stacking trick to propel your tank up the agro list and keep up max dps throughout a fight.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Datku

[uziforyou]

Very well geared DPS (mostly sentinels/marauders) tend not to wait for tanks for stuff that doesn't requires any (i.e. flashpoints).Also I would hardly call sentinels/marauders squishy...

 

Then go without one (a tank). Sent/Mara's (or any class) that does this are very annoying. As a tank, I have a role to fill. If you're not going to allow me to fulfill that role than don't bring me along. The excuse that they're 'very well geared' as a reason for constantly usurping the tanks role is BS with a capital B.

 

I don't care how well geared you are. You have a role to play like everyone else. Play it or don't group, period.

[Datku]

Then go without one (a tank). Sent/Mara's (or any class) that does this are very annoying. As a tank, I have a role to fill. If you're not going to allow me to fulfill that role than don't bring me along. The excuse that they're 'very well geared' as a reason for constantly usurping the tanks role is BS with a capital B.

 

I don't care how well geared you are. You have a role to play like everyone else. Play it or don't group, period.

 

Or as a tank you can go one step further and utilize the dps to propel you up the agro table. I always wait and see how smart the tank is in a group and decide if I can go get a drink of water at the start of a fight to give a tank the time to gain agro, or if the tank uses me to place himself in control and hold agro like a champ.

[SalBasss]

(snip)

 

So either the dps has to hold back at the start of a fight while the tank works to build threat, or you agro stack and let dps build the tanks threat for him. Once the dps takes agro for a second or two and then the tank taunts the placement on the agro table soars for the tank and usually the tank wont loose agro for the rest of the fight (again as long as no agro dump mechanics by the boss and dps keep on top of their dumps). Our raid tank used to have issues keeping agro from my marauder until he started to work with me to maximize his threat. Once we started working together we have been able to maximize dps from the start of a fight through the end of the fight and apart from the start of the fight the tank never looses agro. So either lay back and use weak attacks till your tank feels he has enough agro before you open up, or use the agro stacking trick to propel your tank up the agro list and keep up max dps throughout a fight.

 

Only if you have a bad tank should you need to do this ridiculous strategy. If both roles are played properly, dps can go all out from the first second in the fight and never pull aggro off the tank.

 

Hint: Taunt multiplies your own threat too. Using a vanguard as an example, you can easily Storm > Stockstrike > Energy Blast (off GCD) > HIB > taunt (off GCD), and very rarely will any dps class generate more threat than that - any that do generate that much threat know when it will happen and can threat drop early and be fine the rest of the fight. By the time the taunt wears off, you are 11-12 seconds into the fight and should be rolling fine by then.

 

Edit: Ugh, I can't find enough misinformation in your post. There is no "picture a table from 1 to 100," that's not how threat works. Your arbitrary numbers are made up and do not relate to actual mechanics within the game.

Edited March 25, 2013 by SalBasss

[hooty]

Nice post Datku!

 

IMO it's all about communication and teamwork, and there is usually more than one way to skin a cat. Speaking of cats did they announce when Cathar are arriving yet?

[RandomXChance]

Only if you have a bad tank should you need to do this ridiculous strategy. If both roles are played properly, dps can go all out from the first second in the fight and never pull aggro off the tank.

 

Hint: Taunt multiplies your own threat too. Using a vanguard as an example, you can easily Storm > Stockstrike > Energy Blast (off GCD) > HIB > taunt (off GCD), and very rarely will any dps class generate more threat than that - any that do generate that much threat know when it will happen and can threat drop early and be fine the rest of the fight. By the time the taunt wears off, you are 11-12 seconds into the fight and should be rolling fine by then.

 

Edit: Ugh, I can't find enough misinformation in your post. There is no "picture a table from 1 to 100," that's not how threat works. Your arbitrary numbers are made up and do not relate to actual mechanics within the game.

 

As someone who now runs 4 tanks I could not agree more that the logic in the previous post is absurd. Obviously coming from someone looking to justify their own bad habit of pulling before the tank. Two main issues with the logic.

 

While building aggro for the tank to build on then using aggro dump sounds decent in theory, the VAST majority of Sentinels/Marauders are incapable of pulling this off effectively. When I am in a regular ops group with my guild this is possible, but still not done. When I go in first and the melee DPS immediately follow and I use my big/high threat attacks and then taunt there are no aggro issues the whole fight. When the melee pull first, I am having to struggle against their threat the entire fight. This does not help the group as a whole.

 

Secondly, melee DPS do not have the abilities or as much awareness to group the enemies properly. When I start the fight I use a KB to push one group into another, taunt the melee enemies to me as I start attacking the ranged. This puts the mob in a nice tight group for AOE nukes.

 

What is this whining about your resource pool? I run a Sentinel and a Jugg. Throw saber, leap in and pool is about 2/3 full. This is not an issue. Yes, watching your procs/stacks wear off is annoying but screwing with group mechanics because you are losing potential DPS is not the way to go. Look up the word "group" please.

[soulseekerr]

I would like to add that as a Shadow tank running SM and HM Ops (for now), I tend to put guard on certain players in the following priority:

 

Gunslinger/Sniper>Sentinel/Marauder>Healer

 

Reason for this is pretty simple. Slinger/Sniper and Sent/Mara have the highest potential to pull aggro early in the fight. Healers always target 1 for any adds (until something else draws their attention).

 

I also want to point out that I tend to save my actual taunt abilities for certain situations on some boss fights (ie tank swaps) and will stick to a certain high-threat ability rotation to start off with.

 

Also I don't pull at all until I am sure that:

1. The healer is prepared

2. The majority of the group knows the fight mechanics

3. Necessary CC targets are marked and pre-combat cc's are in place

 

People not dying is almost always more efficient than zerg-rushing any FP or Ops.

 

Just my 2 creds worth.

[Qvasar]

Then go without one (a tank). Sent/Mara's (or any class) that does this are very annoying. As a tank, I have a role to fill. If you're not going to allow me to fulfill that role than don't bring me along. The excuse that they're 'very well geared' as a reason for constantly usurping the tanks role is BS with a capital B.

 

I don't care how well geared you are. You have a role to play like everyone else. Play it or don't group, period.

 

You know what the problem is? We don't mind going without a tank but LFG doesn't allow us to and we want the BH commendations because it translates to molecular stabilizers and that into credits.

 

I usualy LFG queue with another Sentinel and a Scoundrel healer and we can clear any flashpoint very fast with just the three of us but the LFG requires a tank, so one of two things happens:

1. We wait for a tank (hours even) and when we get into the flashpoint we just want to chain pull everything start to finish.
   
2. We randomly spam invite players who can queue as tank until one accepts and hit the queue button immediatly and get an insta-pop.
   

 

EDIT: And when the tank is merely a DPS who queued as tank to get na insta-pop? Or when the tank is Tionese and can't hold aggro except for the 6s of the taunt? Should we vote-kick him? We don't do that, because it makes no difference whatsoever. The problem here is that the healer role is a necessity, the tank role is an option (on some content) but the LFG seems to no grasp this an queue 3 DPS if there are no tanks available.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Qvasar

[Datku]

Edit: Ugh, I can't find enough misinformation in your post. There is no "picture a table from 1 to 100," that's not how threat works. Your arbitrary numbers are made up and do not relate to actual mechanics within the game.

 

Was trying to dumb it down for people to understand...apparently I didn't go far enough

 

Table, chart, meter whatever you want to call it. Each point of dmg equals a point of threat. The whole idea is against well geared dps (talking 63 gear level) a tank generally can not generate enough threat by themselves to preventing a dps from pulling. I have ran ops with many guilds on my server. As a full 63 geared Marauder I can and have pulled agro against every single tank I have worked with if in the beginning I do a standard rotation. A tank simply can not generate enough threat vrs the threat I generate per point of dmg. I MUST camo many times before I even get halfway through a burst rotation (target of target switches to me). Only pain is I can dump my agro as soon as I see myself get targetted by the boss and when I dump the second dps tends to get destroyed because they are higher than the tank and if they dump it goes to our third top dps before the tank can get control again. By doing our "ridiculous strategy" none of our tanks have agro issues after the start of any fight. I pull agro, pop a defensive cool down finish my rotation during which I get hit maybe once, tank finally taunts, I camo, and none of our other dps pull and we can all go full out max dps without the tanks ever loosing agro again.

 

Otherwise if I am guarded at the start of a fight it can help keep me from pulling but if I get a couple good crits I still pull even guarded. Again I have raided with many of the guilds on my server and its not just my guilds tanks that I have to watch but pretty much any tank I have worked with. In the beginning of a fight I can and will pull agro pretty much on demand unless I slack off so is it better I just hit assault (not even battering assault) for the first 10-15 seconds of a fight just to avoid pulling every time there is a phase change or tank swap or do our Micky Mouse method to set the tank on the top of the threat so the rest of us can full burn. While you might not agree...the method works if you are coordinated enough to pull it off.

[DesmoLegacy]

I'm a marauder that hates it when the PvE tanks can't keep up with me.

 

That's why I stopped playing PvE, got sick of running into Ops with my WH gear showing the clicking PvE heroes how it's done. It's like dayum brah, i'm here to win not to teach people how to play. Training classes are over, it's time for me and I love me some me!

Edited March 25, 2013 by DesmoLegacy

[Datku]

As someone who now runs 4 tanks I could not agree more that the logic in the previous post is absurd. Obviously coming from someone looking to justify their own bad habit of pulling before the tank.

 

Oh I am very cognizant of my agro. Target of target is your friend. I often use camo to dump and stay below a tank but I also am ready in the case I do pull to camo once I see the change in target of target. Now I have let a tank go in first and take a couple swings. Then I charge, assault, battering assault to max out rage and holy cow I pulled agro even before I did any real burst And that was after letting the tank go in first wait a 3 count before leaping in. Maybe a lazy tank no clue but with a leap and assault/battering assault I SHOULD NOT PULL Agro...yet I do sometimes. So for me I always expect to pull so have a finger hovering over my camo just in case or go get a drink of water and hope by the time I come back I can finally join the fight and dps However, since we started doing the "Micky Mouse" method...our tanks have NEVER lost agro to ANY dps. Maybe its our guild tanks and I might agree with you if I hadn't ran ops with 5 or 6 other guilds on the server and had similar issues...unless all tanks suck in general which seems to be your assertion if a tank looses agro to a dps.

[SalBasss]

Was trying to dumb it down for people to understand...apparently I didn't go far enough

 

Table, chart, meter whatever you want to call it. Each point of dmg equals a point of threat. The whole idea is against well geared dps (talking 63 gear level) a tank generally can not generate enough threat by themselves to preventing a dps from pulling. I have ran ops with many guilds on my server. As a full 63 geared Marauder I can and have pulled agro against every single tank I have worked with if in the beginning I do a standard rotation. A tank simply can not generate enough threat vrs the threat I generate per point of dmg. I MUST camo many times before I even get halfway through a burst rotation (target of target switches to me). Only pain is I can dump my agro as soon as I see myself get targetted by the boss and when I dump the second dps tends to get destroyed because they are higher than the tank and if they dump it goes to our third top dps before the tank can get control again. By doing our "ridiculous strategy" none of our tanks have agro issues after the start of any fight. I pull agro, pop a defensive cool down finish my rotation during which I get hit maybe once, tank finally taunts, I camo, and none of our other dps pull and we can all go full out max dps without the tanks ever loosing agro again.

 

Otherwise if I am guarded at the start of a fight it can help keep me from pulling but if I get a couple good crits I still pull even guarded. Again I have raided with many of the guilds on my server and its not just my guilds tanks that I have to watch but pretty much any tank I have worked with. In the beginning of a fight I can and will pull agro pretty much on demand unless I slack off so is it better I just hit assault (not even battering assault) for the first 10-15 seconds of a fight just to avoid pulling every time there is a phase change or tank swap or do our Micky Mouse method to set the tank on the top of the threat so the rest of us can full burn. While you might not agree...the method works if you are coordinated enough to pull it off.

 

lol... it's not that I didn't understand you, it's that the information is not right.

 

A proper tank rotation ensures dps won't be pulling, period... and no wall of text will change that. If your dps is guarded and still pulling based on a couple crits, then your tank is playing suboptimally (95% sure this is the case since you're apparently pulling with battering assault, lol), or he/she is undergeared.

 

You do understand that taunts multiply the highest current threat by a certain percentage right? You mentioned your dps will pull if there is a tank swap... if there is a tank swap, there should be no concern of dps pulling adds because both tanks just multiplied their threat, likely by 130%, unless there is a boss threat drop mechanic involved.

 

From a threat perspective, your strategy is obviously something that is going to work due to the multiplier mechanic on taunt. Don't make me laugh by implying you have be a certain level of "coordinated" to do it though. The bottom line is that it is not necessary.

[SalBasss]

Oh I am very cognizant of my agro. Target of target is your friend. I often use camo to dump and stay below a tank but I also am ready in the case I do pull to camo once I see the change in target of target. Now I have let a tank go in first and take a couple swings. Then I charge, assault, battering assault to max out rage and holy cow I pulled agro even before I did any real burst And that was after letting the tank go in first wait a 3 count before leaping in. Maybe a lazy tank no clue but with a leap and assault/battering assault I SHOULD NOT PULL Agro...yet I do sometimes. So for me I always expect to pull so have a finger hovering over my camo just in case or go get a drink of water and hope by the time I come back I can finally join the fight and dps However, since we started doing the "Micky Mouse" method...our tanks have NEVER lost agro to ANY dps. Maybe its our guild tanks and I might agree with you if I hadn't ran ops with 5 or 6 other guilds on the server and had similar issues...unless all tanks suck in general which seems to be your assertion if a tank looses agro to a dps.

 

Yes, your problem is 100% that your tank plays extremely suboptimally.

[Emencie]

Yes, your problem is 100% that your tank plays extremely suboptimally.

 

Or that the DPS is all over the place... on 1 even 2 targets I can deal but especially in OPs when DPs just starts shooting and leaping at whatever target they first tabbed to It is almost impossible to hold all that aggro on myself (trooper)

 

I personally don't care if a marauder jumps in like an idiot. If the team was ready I will take aggro off the idiot and continue on the fight. If the team wasn't ready I watch the idiot die.

 

But When 2+ jump in on separate targets (especially on non high priority targets) and the team doesn't know the encounter, or whatever other problems that crop up. It seems to translate to their impatience literally costing the team time rather than making anything faster.

 

I wont say only sents are guilty of this, I feel it's just more noticeable because of the leaping. But it can be annoying.

[JimG]

It has nothing to do with the class.....it's the player. First of all, many people play more than one character so they are not a marauder or a gunslinger or a powertech or whatever the case may be. So that person playing a marauder may play a tank or healer as much or more often than their marauder. A good player is a good player. A bad player is a bad player. It is plenty easy to play a DPS class without unnecessarily making the tank or healer's job more difficult. If they do, then it has more to do with them being a bad team player than any issues with the class itself.

[killmaimburn]

I just wrote a thesis on group mechanincs.

 

I understand tanking very well. I just had taken a break for awhile and was playing as dps or heals. All MMO's are essentially the same set up. I understand it. It's just that marauders.... it's like they can't help themselves. I vary between the extremes of hating them and feeling bad for them because they just don't know any better.

[ElitehunterDS]

My mara has some 24k health, defo not squishy And i always wait till the tank made his first move befoe i leap in...don't wanna die

Really? 24k?

With the amount of Defensive CD you get you shouldnt need to have 24k hp and i do fine with 21.8k in Nightmare EC.

[Kubernetic]

I always let the tank go first and pull aggro - that's very much a no-brainer - and then I use force leap.

 

Have you played a Sith Warrior yourself? As opposed to other classes, they start with an empty resource pool (rage) that builds up during fighting and diminishes when out of combat. So they're in a hurry to start the fight quickly because they're constantly losing rage while out of combat.

 

I find myself getting impatient with tanks that wait too long between trash mobs, too. But even though it's frustrating to watch my rage bar gar down to zero just before the tank start the fight, I still wait and then do whatever I can to get some damage in. Force leap generates a basic amount of rage, so it helps us to get into our rotation. Also, when the tank started the fight, we're all slowed down and the leap gets us to our targets.

 

Ranged dps is much more comfortable in that regard, they can start dps with a burst the moment the fight starts while maras and sents have to get to their target and build up their resource pool.

 

 

(Not defending dps going in before the tank or neglecting their defensive abilities, but offering my perspective on why we have and need force leap.)

 

I'm not sure how it is on Marauders, but on Sentinels, I know that there is a combination of Force Leap as well as a Zealous Slash that fills your Force/Rage bar with enough energy to get started in the fight in earnest.

 

"My energy is disappearing while I stand here" seems like a very poor justification for screwing up the fight by not understanding how to let the tank grab aggro and keep it. And even then, it's the responsibility of each player to understand their own situation, and learn when they have to dial it back so they don't pull aggro.

 

I know that when playing my Commando in an operation, because I've got him tweaked so much, I have to intentionally slow down from using some of the heavier abilities and use Hammer Shot more than usual. I do this because I know if I don't, pretty soon the boss is going to start hammering me. Similarly on my Scoundrel, if there isn't another tank in the group, I'm often going to wind up doing enough burst damage at the start of the fight that I'm going to end up BEING the tank for a few rounds... and have to adjust accordingly.

 

People just need to be more aware of what they're doing.

[Kurokage]

I've seen good Marauders and bad Marauders. I've also seen good players and bad players of just about every other class, though.

 

I wrong a long, very rambling rant where I probably repeat myself several times, so I'm putting it in a spoiler.

 

 

The problem with Knights and Warriors is that they are the only classes who lose all of their resources over time, rather than regaining them like all of the other classes. They begin a fight with access to only a small fraction of their abilities, and gain access to the rest of them only by staying constantly on the offensive. And when they are out of combat for too long, they start to lose access to those abilities. Rage/focus isn't that bad, since it's quick and easy to build back up, but then there's fury/centering, which takes FAR longer to build up than their resource bar, and is only useful when you have a full stack of 30. It sucks to end a fight with a full stack of fury or centering, and have to wait and watch it all disappear before the start of the next fight, knowing that it'll take a while to build up again. I know that's not a justification, but it's an explanation at least.

 

Honestly, I believe all Knight and Warrior players play more or less the same way, but it's only noticeable when it's a Sentinel or Marauder jumping ahead, because Guardians and Juggernauts can soak up damage pretty well even when they're not specced as tanks. And it's pretty much how they're supposed to play when they're solo. Unlike other dps classes, Marauders and Sentinels are designed to be constantly on the offensive. They lose access to most of their abilities if they wait too long between fights, so stopping to recharge like other classes do isn't worth it unless you're low on health. For first-time players of these classes, usually it takes a long time before it begins to sink in that watching a full stack of fury/centering disappear and the resource bar drop to zero before the tank starts the next fight isn't as bad as trying to use it up and getting killed for it.

 

As for Force Leap, it's actually a really important skill for Marauders and Sentinels. The problem is that a bad player will use it too early. Use it at the right time (i.e. right after the tank draws aggro) and it takes you from outside of aggro range straight to melee range, a vital skill for a melee dps class. It also does some damage and builds some resources to start your rotation.

 

Having played a Sorc healer a lot recently, I've seen both bad and good Marauders. The thing is, even a bad Marauder will probably still listen if you tell him to stop charging ahead. And if he doesn't, kick him or quit. Nobody's forcing you to stay grouped with a bad player.

 

Or you could just stop healing him at all until he stops drawing aggro.

 

[DonkeyGobbler]

You know what's worse than DPS pulling? The healer chain pulling. Yes, I had that the other day

 

As a full 63 geared Marauder I can and have pulled agro against every single tank I have worked with if in the beginning I do a standard rotation. A tank simply can not generate enough threat vrs the threat I generate per point of dmg. I MUST camo many times before I even get halfway through a burst rotation (target of target switches to me). Only pain is I can dump my agro as soon as I see myself get targetted by the boss and when I dump the second dps tends to get destroyed because they are higher than the tank and if they dump it goes to our third top dps before the tank can get control again.

 

You've got THREE DPS who are higher in the threat table than the tank? The problem is your tank. Also, a tank CAN generate more threat than you, regardless of your output. If I'm tanking and you hit the sweetest rotation you can, crit on everything and throw down massive damage, you may pull threat off me. A simple taunt will multiple that threat by (likely) 130% and then you have no chance of getting it back. At worst, you'll have aggro for a couple of seconds. Tanks who waste their taunts to pull at the beginning of a fight are doing it wrong.

 

You've mentioned target of target several times like it's in an insider secret. Ideally you'd be dumping aggro before you pull threat, although it's hard to judge (unless you're familiar with the tank's threat levels/abilities). I've been in fights before where I dumped threat halfway through my opening rotation and then religiously on cool down. Doesn't make me an uber dps machine, just that the tank was bad.

 

I wont say only sents are guilty of this, I feel it's just more noticeable because of the leaping. But it can be annoying.

 

This ^

 

It has nothing to do with the class.....it's the player. First of all, many people play more than one character so they are not a marauder or a gunslinger or a powertech or whatever the case may be. So that person playing a marauder may play a tank or healer as much or more often than their marauder. A good player is a good player. A bad player is a bad player.

 

And this ^

[Chiramu]

OP... don't blame a class just because of a few players. Those players could play any class, just at that point in time they were Marauders...

 

Bad players play every class badly.

[killmaimburn]

OP... don't blame a class just because of a few players. Those players could play any class, just at that point in time they were Marauders...

 

Bad players play every class badly.

 

Oh I'm blaming all marauders. You're all bad people. And further more, the only reason people roll marauders is they nerfed my precious tracer missles so no one wants to be a mercenary anymore.

[NogueiraA]

My mara has some 24k health, defo not squishy And i always wait till the tank made his first move befoe i leap in...don't wanna die

 

Sir, please: http://i46.tinypic.com/er0sj6.jpg

[river_of_Gem]

the issue is no matter what all melee will take some damage in OPs its the nature of melee... the problem is most bad melee are too stupid to take the talent that reduces AoE damage by 30% if they do not have that then remove then from your ops and tell them to L2P simple as that.

 

 

All the DPS in the world doesn't mean crap when you are dead. On top of that no good marauder/sentinel would go into an OPs without that talent... they might claim they are good but in reality they are simply stupid.

 

Imo you should "think" before you post. Ani mara can't spec into 30% aoe reduction but they bring in self-heal and group-heal - i have cleared both TFB HM and EC NiM as both carnage and ani without any trouble and our healer seem to love my ani more than my carnage. I have also cleared TFB HM with my madness assassin ( no 30% aoe reduction ) without any trouble as well.

 

You like use the word "stupid" and "L2P" but it seem it's more suitable for you.

 

OP... don't blame a class just because of a few players. Those players could play any class, just at that point in time they were Marauders...

 

Bad players play every class badly.

 

Also this ^

Edited March 26, 2013 by river_of_Gem

[DawnAskham]

Sir, please: http://i46.tinypic.com/er0sj6.jpg

 

LOLOLOL

 

I've meet so many fail endurance stacking dps asking why my health is low compared to them as though I must have really bad gear, when the fact is I remove every endurance heavy mod and replace it with low endurance / high offensive stat mods.