Mevan Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Feedback is all over the place. STOP PUTTING EVERYTHING ON THE CM! THIS GAME IS CENTERED AROUND THE CM NOW WHICH SUCKS. STOP RUINING THE IN-GAME ECONOMY THAT WAY. How about putting actual content in the game and make it a lively and cool experience? Too daring? Too bold? I've been defending this game from the start, right now I'm trying my best not to hate it. Makes me miss SWG tbh. They never added this kind of crap, and even at the end of the games life they were still adding new content on a regular enough basis. All for the price of a sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 So you are admitting that this game is being centered on the cash shop now eh? Gotcha. Interesting. I didn't realize there were players who believed that the game was centered around cosmetic items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mevan Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The Barber shop should be available to use for in game credits using the customization already available at start. New races, hairstyles, body types, sex changes and such should be on the CM. I would happily pay up to £20 to unlock a hairstyle like Shae Vizla's, and I would be even happier to pay up to £30 for Togruta as a playable species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWentz Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) This is a total joke right? Every other game that has this feature dont charge like this... People play F2P because they dont want to sub and they get punished with limits, but when you sub your also punished with having to pay more its a never ending story to the cartel market. I think they should rename the game expansion to "The rise of the cartel market" as it seems the only way to play this game or make changes which should all be free to subbers... What do we really get for our sub a month? I mean in 2.0 we have commendation limits coming in... Oh wait wont they charge cartel coins for extra weekly limits expands to that to? id not be surprised:mad:. Though i do agree species unlocks should be a CM thing Edited March 21, 2013 by SWentz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lent_San Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Interesting. I didn't realize there were players who believed that the game was centered around cosmetic items. Nice. Now Eric calls the barber shop "cosmetic" and everybody's buying it. How about calling it an RPG feature? How about calling it "content"? Edited March 21, 2013 by Lent_San Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lent_San Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Makes me miss SWG tbh. They never added this kind of crap, and even at the end of the games life they were still adding new content on a regular enough basis. All for the price of a sub. I hear ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grombrinda Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Interesting. I didn't realize there were players who believed that the game was centered around cosmetic items. And I wouldn't believe that there were people who would like their crafting skills to mean more than just making mods,Yes they are cosmetic,but wouldn't be nice if they dropped for a paying sub as a recipe??They might as well as remove all the other recipes as the have no purpose ( meaning armors and weapons), or perhaps yo can share to us when was the last time you sold an Elegant Custom Saber on the gtn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshenK Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 If you don't like it speak with your wallet and quit. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mevan Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 If you don't like it speak with your wallet and quit. It's that simple. No it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pytviper Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 BW doesn’t care what you have to say unless you are buying Cartel Coins weekly. The rest of us are 2nd class sub to them and we don’t have a say. Look at how they assign people. If you are creative designer you work on the Cartel Market. If you can’t color inside the lines you go to sub based content. Compare Cartel Market Items to in game items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 And I wouldn't believe that there were people who would like their crafting skills to mean more than just making mods,Yes they are cosmetic,but wouldn't be nice if they dropped for a paying sub as a recipe??They might as well as remove all the other recipes as the have no purpose ( meaning armors and weapons), or perhaps yo can share to us when was the last time you sold an Elegant Custom Saber on the gtn? The oranges don't sell, but then, they never really did except for the brief period of time when they could only be augmented by critting them. Stuff for twinks still sell fine. I think the primary issue is that its an enormous amount of effort to figure out all the items that belong to a "set" in crafted oranges. Sure there are plenty of orange schematics and what not, but who is going to spend the time to find all the pieces to one. Its really hard to piece together a crafted outfit outside of a vendor of some form. To create a decent cosmetic market we'd need a better way to advertise/distribute them. On top of that we need a UI update to crew skills and schematics. Frankly people are blaming the CM for destroying the cosmetic market, but there are good looking oranges available to craft and they never sold at the prices that CM weapons do. CM weapons also compete in an entirely different price bracket, so if there were people out there who knew relatively cheap good looking outfits were available, they'd sell. Changes need to be made to create a cosmetic market for crafters, but the CM didn't destroy an existing market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshenK Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) No it isn't. Yes it is. You can sit here and rant and rave like a 5 year old who didn't get a toy, making yourself look like a entitled spoiled brat. Or you can speak with your wallet and quit the game. And *gasp* maybe if they see the subs dropping they will change things. Or better yet you can ask BioWare, what is going to be in this Barber-Shop? How much is the coin cost going to be? Will you be putting new things into this system? Is it just I pay for a one time change or do I get it for X amount of hours in case I don't like how it looks. You know what am I getting with my money. Oh wait never mind lets just sit here and talk about how great and wonderful SWG was and how much we hate everything they do with TOR. Edited March 21, 2013 by AshenK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackavaar Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 If you don't like it speak with your wallet and quit. It's that simple. Already did, but the amount of a lost subscription apparently isn't as loud as the amount people are spending on cartel packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giolon Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer. We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market. As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback. -eric Can we not get something like that other popular MMO has where changing basic things that you'd normally expect a person to change (hair style, color, facial hair, piercings, etc.) cost in-game credits, but have a full-on character re-creation (race changes, skin color, face changes, etc.) cost Cartel Coins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palar Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The Barber shop should be available to use for in game credits using the customization already available at start. New races, hairstyles, body types, sex changes and such should be on the CM. Done and dusted - perfect solution, right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lent_San Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Oh wait never mind lets just sit here and talk about how great and wonderful SWG was and how much we hate everything they do with TOR.The writing's on the wall. It's clear to see that their only interest is to grab more and more money and tell us the cool stuff will come later. I've heard that for a year now. No more of that. Changes need to be made to create a cosmetic market for crafters, but the CM didn't destroy an existing market.Oh yes, it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 LvL 43 armor is totally Pay to Win, you so totally caught them! My point is they keep saying they won't do it. But they've never defined it. Either term. They should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relthar Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer. We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market. As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback. -eric This barbershop feature should not use Cartel Coins to pay for cosmetic character changes. Changes should be paid for with the in-game currency, credits, not a currency with a real world money equivalent (whether earned via subscriber stipend or not). I spent 6 years playing City of Heroes where at any time on any character I could change my appearance for in-game currency. When that game went F2P the stipend of points subscribers were given to use in the Paragon Market could pay for more cosmetic options for characters. And those purchases were an account wide unlock, not per character. I could see paying a certain allotment of Cartel Coins for access to the barbershop functionality on every character on my account as a reasonable one-time fee, but not as a tax for every change I want to make to the way any of my characters look. I already consider the price charged for the cosmetic gear on the Cartel Market to be Hutt galactic robbery, and that's just a purchase for one character. ----------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mevan Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yes it is. You can sit here and rant and rave like a 5 year old who didn't get a toy, making yourself look like a entitled spoiled brat. Or you can speak with your wallet and quit the game. And *gasp* maybe if they see the subs dropping they will change things. Or better yet you can ask BioWare, what is going to be in this Barber-Shop? How much is the coin cost going to be? Will you be putting new things into this system? Is it just I pay for a one time change or do I get it for X amount of hours in case I don't like how it looks. You know what am I getting with my money. Oh wait never mind lets just sit here and talk about how great and wonderful SWG was and how much we hate everything they do with TOR. I'm sorry, you're accusing me of ranting and raving with a rant of your own? Still amazes me how people like you are so unsympathetic to issues other people have with the game simply because your too self-centered to see past your own desires. To address the parts of your post that weren't attempting to belittle other people's issues- quitting will not change anything. I have supported this game since pre-launch and as such have invested a lot of time and money in it, which I'm not eager to waste by quitting, at least not until EAware does something that I can't let slide. As for asking them questions, it's pretty naive to think they are going to answer any question I ask. Besides, questions have been asked before and the answers given turned out to be lies. It's sweet that you still think they're going to answer things honestly though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grombrinda Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 The oranges don't sell, but then, they never really did except for the brief period of time when they could only be augmented by critting them. Stuff for twinks still sell fine. I think the primary issue is that its an enormous amount of effort to figure out all the items that belong to a "set" in crafted oranges. Sure there are plenty of orange schematics and what not, but who is going to spend the time to find all the pieces to one. Its really hard to piece together a crafted outfit outside of a vendor of some form. To create a decent cosmetic market we'd need a better way to advertise/distribute them. On top of that we need a UI update to crew skills and schematics. Frankly people are blaming the CM for destroying the cosmetic market, but there are good looking oranges available to craft and they never sold at the prices that CM weapons do. CM weapons also compete in an entirely different price bracket, so if there were people out there who knew relatively cheap good looking outfits were available, they'd sell. Changes need to be made to create a cosmetic market for crafters, but the CM didn't destroy an existing market. Ahh..thank you for answering my question.So thus lets remove said said recipes as they aren't worth crap compared to the cash shop items. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueArab Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer. We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market. As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback. -eric This basically means that you will have to pay extra for anything that doesn't give you a performance upgrade. Nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grombrinda Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Yes it is. You can sit here and rant and rave like a 5 year old who didn't get a toy, making yourself look like a entitled spoiled brat. Or you can speak with your wallet and quit the game. And *gasp* maybe if they see the subs dropping they will change things. Or better yet you can ask BioWare, what is going to be in this Barber-Shop? How much is the coin cost going to be? Will you be putting new things into this system? Is it just I pay for a one time change or do I get it for X amount of hours in case I don't like how it looks. You know what am I getting with my money. Oh wait never mind lets just sit here and talk about how great and wonderful SWG was and how much we hate everything they do with TOR. I would agree with you , but I have a feeling they are making more on the cartel bundles than subs now, so a drop in subs probably won't hurt them and you would never know until one day you see this on the forums. "Old republic shutting down, thank you so much for your support" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) I'm sorry, you're accusing me of ranting and raving with a rant of your own? Still amazes me how people like you are so unsympathetic to issues other people have with the game simply because your too self-centered to see past your own desires. I loathe going off topic, but sometimes this sort of comment warrants comment in return. Having read his posts for some time now, and yours as well, I'm pretty sure you are mistaking "unsympathetic" with "distaste for your attitude". Your attitude that comes across in your posts does not endear people to feel somehow sympathetic to your issues with the game unless they share your exact concerns. You are dismissive of anyone who disagrees with you, but expect them to sympathize and empathize with your ill feelings about this MMO. In that context, personally, I find your use of the term "self-centered" to be ironic. /2-cents Edited March 22, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I would agree with you , but I have a feeling they are making more on the cartel bundles than subs now, so a drop in subs probably won't hurt them and you would never know until one day you see this on the forums. "Old republic shutting down, thank you so much for your support" You're more right than you realize. The success of a F2P game, like TOR, isn't measured by the number of active subs, like WoW is measured. The success of a F2P game is measured by quarterly revenue. Sub numbers for TOR have become utterly irrelevant as a gauge of success, though they 'do' mention that the game has gained thousands of active players and 'millions' of new accounts...Though, since accounts are 'free', that's something to take with a grain of salt. The old tried-and-true threat of canceling subscriptions is no longer a threat worth listening to, for them. The 'only' thing that'll get their attention is enough people quit playing the game and damage their quarterly income at the same time. Because, in their eyes, if the quitting 'subbed' community is only replaced by eager F2P players who don't mind coughing up a few extra bucks for an 'almost subbed' account, then where's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I would agree with you , but I have a feeling they are making more on the cartel bundles than subs now, so a drop in subs probably won't hurt them and you would never know until one day you see this on the forums. "Old republic shutting down, thank you so much for your support" Nobody but them knows the revenue splits between sub and cartel coin purchases. The fact is... it does not matter. I know that old time subscribers want it to matter, but it does not. What matters is average revenue earned per month per active player. None of which has anything to do with content exclusive to subscribers (which we have, and will continue to receive) vs the mob revolt of a minority of forum membership regarding cartel coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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