Selecting need for loot

[Jonrobbie]

You truely are the rebel without a clue. Good luck on your ventures.

 

Thankyou

[ronniehenlau]

So would you say that .needing on 2 out of 13 items in the last flashpoint and passing on the rest was selfish? and can you please re-phrase your first question? Im not sure i follow what you are saying

 

Yes, I do think that's selfish, because you didnt need those two items. Your companion needed them.

 

My question was:

Is it fair that if you have done the same flashpoint over and over and over 30-40 times to get one item for your character, then when that item finally drops, someone needs it because they want to sell to vendor. You can't compare vendor to companion you say? Nonsense I say! Not having those credits from that item will put me at a serious disadvantage, therefore I can, by your logic, need on it. The fact that it will benefit you -way- more than it benefits me, needing items for credits is the exact same as needing for companion (I dont need it for my character, but I need it to make my gameplay easier). Do you see where Im going with this?

[Uvirith]

First flashpoint came across an item, i passed as neither i nor my companions needed it, Second one selected need for my tank. Got it. Third one, great for my tank, selected need, got it again. Then got told I was scum and voted off.

Second one, passed on two items, third one great for my tank, selected need and was told I had no right if it was for my companion and that I cant select need. I say why not? Out of 13 loot drops in that flashpoint i chose need on 2. How is that greedy?

 

you dont roll Need for companions. Its the ultimate rule of good behavior in The old Republic. So im sorry, but your behavior was indeed greedy.

[Jonrobbie]

Yes, I do think that's selfish, because you didnt need those two items. Your companion needed them.

 

My question was:

Is it fair that if you have done the same flashpoint over and over and over 30-40 times to get one item for your character, then when that item finally drops, someone needs it because they want to sell to vendor. You can't compare vendor to companion you say? Nonsense I say! Not having those credits from that item will put me at a serious disadvantage, therefore I can, by your logic, need on it. The fact that it will benefit you -way- more than it benefits me, needing items for credits is the exact same as needing for companion (I dont need it for my character, but I need it to make my gameplay easier). Do you see where Im going with this?

 

If i did the same flashpoint 30-40 times in the hopes of getting an item then i must clearly be stock raving mad when I could just go hunt for an item thats even more powerful or complete other missions that will allow me to purchase a more powerful item. Theres no way i would do the same mission that many times in the hopes of getting one specific item but each to their own.

However if it DID happen and someone else got it, yeah i would be upset in those circumstances, i would probably vote kick that person as well in those circumstances but i dont see how that gives me the right to believe that my needs outweigh the other persons considering I dont know the lengths that person went through to get it.

 

As for vendor vs companion, again who am I to decide that my needs outweigh another gamers? Who am i to say that my needs are more important than yours? Who am I to dictate to you what you can or cannot do? Clearly i would stating that you cannot do something because I want it to benefit ME and ME alone. NOT YOU. I would be telling you that I am more important, i am more worthy, that I have decided that my view and my needs outweigh yours.......but i DONT know your circumstances or reasons for doing so therefore who am I or anyone to dictate that I can roll on an item and you cannot? That I can have a chance but you cannot?

I would not tell you that I can need but you cannot.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Jonrobbie

[Never_Hesitate]

on my trooper I can roll need for my companions and nobody notices it *evil laugh* /sarcasm

 

in my groups (I mostly play as a tank) a ninja like the op would receive a warning if he did it once and a kick on the second time.

 

Needing for a companion is really poor etiquette, especially in group content where he isn't even present (fp's/ops)

 

But as in most parts of an mmo communication is key, if you ask if it's ok to take an item for your companion and everybody says it's ok, you will not get in trouble

Edited March 18, 2013 by Never_Hesitate

[ronniehenlau]

If i did the same flashpoint 30-40 times in the hopes of getting an item then i must clearly be stock raving mad when I could just go hunt for an item thats even more powerful or complete other missions that will allow me to purchase a more powerful item. Theres no way i would do the same mission that many times in the hopes of getting one specific item but each to their own.

However if it DID happen and someone else got it, yeah i would be upset in those circumstances, i would probably vote kick that person as well in those circumstances but i dont see how that gives me the right to believe that my needs outweigh the other persons considering I dont know the lengths that person went through to get it.

 

As for vendor vs companion, again who am I to decide that my needs outweigh another gamers? Who am i to say that my needs are more important than yours? Who am I to dictate to you what you can or cannot do? Clearly i would stating that you cannot do something because I want it to benefit ME and ME alone. NOT YOU. I would be telling you that I am more important, i am more worthy, that I have decided that my view and my needs outweigh yours.......but i DONT know your circumstances or reasons for doing so therefore who am I or anyone to dictate that I can roll on an item and you cannot? That I can have a chance but you cannot?

I would not tell you that I can need but you cannot.

 

So.. you think its unfair, but you're fine with it? Just to ensure we're on the same page.

Also: Why would you vote kick that person seeing as your belief says that what he did is completely ok? If you ask him 'Why did you need on it, I really wanted that item', and he replies 'I need to vendor it because im low on creds LOL', you should in theory be completely fine with it. If you're not, you want to dictate what he can and cannot need on (clearly marked by you vote-kicking him). So which is it? You're fine with people needing on stuff that you really really want for your own character, when all they want is to vendor it for credits? Or you're not?

[ronniehenlau]

But as in most parts of an mmo communication is key, if you ask if it's ok to take an item for your companion and everybody says it's ok, you will not get in trouble

 

Also, this. If I see somethign that I could use for my companion, I wait until everyone has either hit greed or pass. If they do, I ask 'Can i need for comp?'. If everyone says 'yeh, go for it *brofist*', I need. If 2/3 replies 'Yes', but the third person doesnt reply, I greed.

[JPryde]

To the OP: If you'd do that in my group, you would get a warning then a kick as well. If you'd however ask, if you could roll for need for your companion or twink or whatever (provided, the item can be traded), you are about 90% sure to get a "go ahead" as long as noone else got "real" need.

 

In my books, the need of a char for themselves is always more important than the need for a companion or twink or even for the "other role". That said, I am running a sage-healer most of my time and I never roll need on DD items my char could use, before asking first, even if there is no other sage in the party.

 

And to the guys, who claim, that after a FP you should have 25% of the loot... there is a looting option for that, called round robin. No rolling at all, everything is equally distributed between the party members. Use that option and then please don't blame the healer for getting your bis-DD-item.

 

And at the end of the day, all these kind of prblems can be solved by a one-liner right BEFORE the start of the killing. just drop a "May I use need on companion stuff ?" after the all-time-consuming "hi" and you are mostly done, as many people are running daily HMs purely for the black hole coms anyway.

[XuShaBi]

This convention that you speak of, is there somewhere that I can read this convention of etiquette that is expected of players or are we all to assume that every person who plays SWTOR are seasoned mmo players who are well versed and familiar with unwritten rules of social convention? And who decided upon these conventions? Was it the developers or gamers?

 

If you are dressed up as a Nazis to a bar mitzvah then the chances are you are going to offend everyone regardless to whether you know reasons or not. As a mature adult, it's your responsibility to learn the norms of a social event before offending others. Grouping up with other players is just another social event. It's really hilarious that you wish talk to about maturity when you lack this basic common sense.

 

 

 

Far from it. What im stating is that I find it immature that others would tell me that I have to forgo that right. If anything Im more than happy for others in my group to roll on it, let the dice fall where it may, if they win it, good for them, if i win it, sweet.

 

If you don't understand that in a group you alone don't make the decision for the entire group then I am afraid you really need to understand what maturity is about. What drops in a group is actually the group's property and not yours hence it requires a group decision if you don't wish to offend anyone.

 

Is not allowing each person roll for it if they so choose to do the fair and equal thing to do rather than saying you cant roll on this or this or this because of some unwritten rule that shall be enforced?

 

No, your decision is far from fair and equal since you forced a decision onto your group. If you think dictatorship is fair then I don't know what to say. You need to understand that the key is not about existence of such rule but that your group member decide to implement this rule and you just didn't give much damn to what they thought.

 

The difference between me and them and seemingly some posters in this forum is that there are some that are more entitled than others based on some unwritten rule that was probably put in place in the forums of some WoW forums.

 

LOL... how hypocritical can you get. You are the real one with entitlement issues. Your entitlement mentality automatically made you think you deserve what you want from a group regardless what other people think.

 

Come back when you have real maturity.

[Jonrobbie]

So.. you think its unfair, but you're fine with it? Just to ensure we're on the same page.

Also: Why would you vote kick that person seeing as your belief says that what he did is completely ok? If you ask him 'Why did you need on it, I really wanted that item', and he replies 'I need to vendor it because im low on creds LOL', you should in theory be completely fine with it. If you're not, you want to dictate what he can and cannot need on (clearly marked by you vote-kicking him). So which is it? You're fine with people needing on stuff that you really really want for your own character, when all they want is to vendor it for credits? Or you're not?

 

I am saying that in those circumstances if i had been crazy enough to do the same mission 30 or 40 times i would probably vote kick someone

But just because my emotions come into play does not make it right

Just like if someone did something to me that hurt me badly. That might make me want to murder them in a scenario but that does not make it my right to do so.

[VukMarkov]

the OP is a troll,he fooled you all so i'm going to give him a 8.5/10

 

yep, thought the same

too obvious

[BaronV]

If you are dressed up as a Nazis to a bar mitzvah then the chances are you are going to offend everyone regardless to whether you know reasons or not. As a mature adult, it's your responsibility to learn the norms of a social event before offending others. Grouping up with other players is just another social event. It's really hilarious that you wish talk to about maturity when you lack this basic common sense.

 

---

 

If you don't understand that in a group you alone don't make the decision for the entire group then I am afraid you really need to understand what maturity is about. What drops in a group is actually the group's property and not yours hence it requires a group decision if you don't wish to offend anyone.

 

---

No, your decision is far from fair and equal since you forced a decision onto your group. If you think dictatorship is fair then I don't know what to say. You need to understand that the key is not about existence of such rule but that your group member decide to implement this rule and you just didn't give much damn to what they thought.

 

---

 

LOL... how hypocritical can you get. You are the real one with entitlement issues. Your entitlement mentality automatically made you think you deserve what you want from a group regardless what other people think.

 

Come back when you have real maturity.

 

AWESOME response. Quoted for truth

[jovianus]

And as for need over greed for a companion, I am YET to see any links or quote from the developers saying that is what greed was designed for. If I can get a response from the designers stating that greed is what companions are for then i will go with that because that is the game design

 

You're not likely to get a response from them because it's up to each group to decide what is acceptable etiquette for looting. And this is hardly something unique or shocking about SWTOR, pretty much every MMO community in existence with a priority looting system follows the same etiquette: Need if for the character you are currently playing, not for alts, not for money, and not (in SWTOR's case) for companions.

 

In any case, given that you've all ready been called out on it in game, and having seen the response here, wouldn't the mature thing to do be to ask your group beforehand what is acceptable to roll need for? And wouldn't the mature thing to do be to abide by whatever the rest of the group decides? And if you don't like their decision, wouldn't the mature thing to do be to drop out of that group and find another one more suitable to you? Or do you feel that the truly adult course of action is to say screw everybody else and do what you want?

[Jonrobbie]

If you are dressed up as a Nazis to a bar mitzvah then the chances are you are going to offend everyone regardless to whether you know reasons or not. As a mature adult, it's your responsibility to learn the norms of a social event before offending others. Grouping up with other players is just another social event. It's really hilarious that you wish talk to about maturity when you lack this basic common sense.

 

 

 

 

 

If you don't understand that in a group you alone don't make the decision for the entire group then I am afraid you really need to understand what maturity is about. What drops in a group is actually the group's property and not yours hence it requires a group decision if you don't wish to offend anyone.

 

 

 

No, your decision is far from fair and equal since you forced a decision onto your group. If you think dictatorship is fair then I don't know what to say. You need to understand that the key is not about existence of such rule but that your group member decide to implement this rule and you just didn't give much damn to what they thought.

 

 

 

LOL... how hypocritical can you get. You are the real one with entitlement issues. Your entitlement mentality automatically made you think you deserve what you want from a group regardless what other people think.

 

Come back when you have real maturity.

 

 

NOT going to a mitzvah in a Nazi costume is common sense. Its the real world. Something I would not do.

It has real world effects. It has real world consequences. I would not seek to offend someone for the sake of offending them so your comparison is asinine.

 

 

How is choosing to roll a decision forced on the entire group? Im not forcing them to click need or greed or pass. The roll makes the decision, not me, i only choose to roll for a chance for the item which means i have an equal chance same as anyone else does who chooses to roll need for it.

 

I think its damning to attempt to enforce some standard or principle on someone else that restricts their freedom of choice. You say its about the group and yet only one person benefits from that item. Not all 4 so stating that one person in particular cannot roll on the item because of some unwritten rule that the others believe is their right and not the other persons is blatant double standards. You say im forcing it onto others by stating that I believe in my freedom of choice? I believe its YOU who are forcing your beliefs onto me by restricting my freedom of choice

 

You say its far from fair and equal? The roll of the die makes the choice, and everyone has a chance. Thats fair, thats equal, not someone throwing their weight around saying "I deserve this more than you!"

[Jonrobbie]

You're not likely to get a response from them because it's up to each group to decide what is acceptable etiquette for looting. And this is hardly something unique or shocking about SWTOR, pretty much every MMO community in existence with a priority looting system follows the same etiquette: Need if for the character you are currently playing, not for alts, not for money, and not (in SWTOR's case) for companions.

 

In any case, given that you've all ready been called out on it in game, and having seen the response here, wouldn't the mature thing to do be to ask your group beforehand what is acceptable to roll need for? And wouldn't the mature thing to do be to abide by whatever the rest of the group decides? And if you don't like their decision, wouldn't the mature thing to do be to drop out of that group and find another one more suitable to you? Or do you feel that the truly adult course of action is to say screw everybody else and do what you want?

 

I absolutely agree with you. I think that is the right choice because at least in that instance I have and the rest of the group have beforehand, complete knowledge as to how we want to go about the flashpoint. So in that case I have an informed choice as to whether or not i want to go ahead with it rather than assuming that some unwritten law will hold up without prior knowledge as to whats acceptable and not for that fp.

It IS all about choice and if the others decide thats how they want to go about it im happy to accept that rather than find out in the middle of the flashpoint when theyre calling me kindergarten names

[Beansoup]

I absolutely agree with you. I think that is the right choice because at least in that instance I have and the rest of the group have beforehand, complete knowledge as to how we want to go about the flashpoint. So in that case I have an informed choice as to whether or not i want to go ahead with it rather than assuming that some unwritten law will hold up without prior knowledge as to whats acceptable and not for that fp.

It IS all about choice and if the others decide thats how they want to go about it im happy to accept that rather than find out in the middle of the flashpoint when theyre calling me kindergarten names

 

Look, you are asking for anarchy. Sure some might provail with that set of thought but it's not generally accepted, and as for you, it's not even working for you at all.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Beansoup

[Ratajack]

OP, why not ask yourself the question why do you think you are entitled to others accepting your behaviour of ignoring convention agreed by other players? What makes you so special that your entitlement mentality argues that others should forgo their rights and tolerate your nonsense?

 

If we allow rolling need for companions, in pugs, then we might as well remove greed option in pugs. There is no way I can tell if you are lying or not about needing for a companion in an op. However, if you are needing for your own character then a quick inspection of your gear can verify your claim. Given how greedy players can be in pugs, I really don't expect people telling truth when they can lie and get loots off easily. Hence, the social convention is quite important.

 

There is no way you can tell if a player is lying about needing for his character either, since there are at least several classes which would switch character's gear for a companion's. If a player swaps his character's gear for companion's gear for that new shiny would appear to be an upgrade when in actuality it is for his companion. A trooper's companions all use aim, so any gear the trooper might use could be for almost any one of his companions, the exceptions being M1-4X, the ship droid and possibly HK-51. A smuggler could swap gear with Risha, or an agent could swap gear with Kaliyo. We have no way of knowing if a player is lying. You could say "we could just trust", but then why not trust if a player admits that it is for his companion?

[jovianus]

There is no way you can tell if a player is lying about needing for his character either, since there are at least several classes which would switch character's gear for a companion's. If a player swaps his character's gear for companion's gear for that new shiny would appear to be an upgrade when in actuality it is for his companion. A trooper's companions all use aim, so any gear the trooper might use could be for almost any one of his companions, the exceptions being M1-4X, the ship droid and possibly HK-51. A smuggler could swap gear with Risha, or an agent could swap gear with Kaliyo. We have no way of knowing if a player is lying. You could say "we could just trust", but then why not trust if a player admits that it is for his companion?

 

Huh, maybe I'm just too trusting, but it has honestly never occurred to me to inspect another player to make sure that whatever they're rolling on is an actual upgrade for them. I just normally operate under the standard that 'appropriate classes can roll on any gear with their primary stat.'.

 

The only time I've ever actually bothered to inspect another player is if A. They performing particularly poorly, or B. I like how whatever they're wearing looks.

Edited March 18, 2013 by jovianus

[Never_Hesitate]

but then why not trust if a player admits that it is for his companion?

 

we trust him, but he has to ask first, not just ninja it

[jgelling]

Came across two flashpoints yesterday where I was verbally talked down to by a gamer each time for winning loot for my companion.

You don't select need for companion gear.

 

Companions are not real characters.

 

Despite any fantasies some may have, you are not actually married to your companions.

 

You don't owe them anything, green gear is fine for them (they're very environmentally-friendly that way, making do with green crap), and the most obnoxious thing you can ever do in the history of the world is roll "need" for your tank/healer companions as though their gear actually matters.

Edited March 18, 2013 by jgelling

[DarthSylar]

Ran across this last night running black talon on a new character I made. First boss, the tank disconnected, and everyone rolled correctly. Next boss, the assassin tank needed on some agent gear but loss. I pointed it out to the group and kept going. Bonus boss, he rolls on the bounty hunter gear (so did another agent). So for the rest of the flashpoint I just stood there without fighting and refused to space bar through cut scenes, despite his pleading.

 

And on the final boss, I needed on the lightsaber that dropped

[Tachenko_Yuri]

Need on stuff that toon actually needs.

 

Should some bit for an alt or companion show up, i ask before needing, and will greed if denied it... how hard is it?

[itsmymillertime]

There is no way you can tell if a player is lying about needing for his character either, since there are at least several classes which would switch character's gear for a companion's. If a player swaps his character's gear for companion's gear for that new shiny would appear to be an upgrade when in actuality it is for his companion. A trooper's companions all use aim, so any gear the trooper might use could be for almost any one of his companions, the exceptions being M1-4X, the ship droid and possibly HK-51. A smuggler could swap gear with Risha, or an agent could swap gear with Kaliyo. We have no way of knowing if a player is lying. You could say "we could just trust", but then why not trust if a player admits that it is for his companion?

 

agent = cunning

kaliyo = aim

 

agent can swap with doctor or temple

[Lung_Tien_Lien]

How are players A,B and C asking for equal chances for everyone when they won't let, or don't want, player D to roll? How is denying, or attempting to deny, player D a chance to roll asking for equal chances for everyone?

 

As for my mindset, I've explained before, I generally roll need for my character only, but that is my choice. I do not expect everyone to do so. I will not ever tell a player they cannot, or should not, roll need if they helped produce the item in question. I've watched items my character can equip go to other players for their companions, and congratulated them on their roll. It's not the end of the world or my gaming, and at the end of the day, I have made more friends and have more people with whom to group than I ever thought possible.

 

How does refusing to disallow a player a chance to roll for loot he helped produce equate to an entitled attitude?

 

Players A, B and C don't want player D to pass on the roll, they want him not to simply take the item, which is what happens if he rolls need and everyone else greed. So he's denying them their chance at the item. If they don't want that to happen, they all have to roll need. Which leads to the scenario I described in my first post.

 

Everything you just said you've said before and it doesn't answer my questions to you. I accept that you don't always roll need and yet seem to think it's fine if someone does, but then why wouldn't everyone always roll need? Why do we have the system of need/greed in the first place?

 

Of course it's not the end of the world. It's an item in an MMO. It's utterly insiginficant, but if none of us cared, we wouldn't be playing this game, would we?

[Galbatorrix]

Came across two flashpoints yesterday where I was verbally talked down to by a gamer each time for winning loot for my companion. I dont understand the big deal. Why the sense of entitlement over another gamer? If I see an item that would be needed for my companion to equip im going to roll for it. If someone else wins it, cool, good for them as far as im concerned. If i win it f, suddenly there are problems.

First flashpoint came across an item, i passed as neither i nor my companions needed it, Second one selected need for my tank. Got it. Third one, great for my tank, selected need, got it again. Then got told I was scum and voted off.

Second one, passed on two items, third one great for my tank, selected need and was told I had no right if it was for my companion and that I cant select need. I say why not? Out of 13 loot drops in that flashpoint i chose need on 2. How is that greedy?

 

As far as im concerned, im a paid subscriber. Why should some other gamer dictate to me what I can or cannot do to benefit them? If someone wants help on a mission or flashpoint and asks me, ill have no problem helping them but if i see something my tank needs, im selecting need. Im certainly not going to cry over it if someone else wins it. This sense of entitlement over someone else is baffling. There is no rulebook in the game that states that you cant do it and everyone who rolls for it has an equal chance

 

 

Honestly, it's called social etiquette. And although you are right in that there are no official rules prohibiting you to need on things that aren't for your PC, it is a drama inducing issue. Since you obviously know that most people frown upon it, then you should also be aware of the consequences. If you're not ready to be talked down to/kicked, don't do it. If being placed on ignore lists and kicked is your thing, by all means, need away. But, just as you have the right to be selfish and need for your companions, others also have the right to decide that you needing on loot for your companion over their actual PC is worthy of a vote to kick.