Selecting need for loot

[Ratajack]

lol, why are you arguing with everyone, man? You came in here asking for people's opinion. You wanted to know if people felt like needing on items for companions was considered wrong. Well, you have your answer. So why are you arguing with everyone over this? Do you think you are honestly going to change anyone's mind?

 

Hey, there is a system in place set by MMO players that has been in place since the beginning of the loot system. Most MMO players abide by this rule. If you chose not to abide by this rule like everyone else does, fine. Be ready to be removed from your teams and in some instances cussed out. Be prepared to be humiliated. This is your choice and this is the ultimate consequence for your choice. You obviously do not plan to change your ways, so this is the MMO life you will be faced with, but be warned...players are quick to place people on ignore these days. You do this to enough people, the word that you are a ninja will quickly spread on your server, and you will be ignored by the whole server. Sounds like a bit much, right? Trust me, I have seen it done to a guy already in Age of Conan. The guy was forced to quit the server because he was unable to get in to a guild, unable to get in to a Raid and unable to progress. This could be you...if this is what you chose, so be it, but you will not convince us that what you are doing is fine and dandy.

 

Good luck.

 

Excuse me? I'm not the OP, I came in here asking for nothing. I am simply defending another player's right to benefit from their efforts. I am not one of the "entitled" generation who feels that I alone deserve the rewards someone else worked to produce.

[jedimasterjac]

But why is their character more important? I play with my companion beside me every second im not playing a flashpoint and my companion is critical in my winning each mission. So i dont understand why their gaming is more important than mine. I dont understand this sense of entitlement that someone else has over another gamer. If you pay for a game it should not be dictated on someone elses terms how you play should it? As long as you arent cheating.

 

Because this is an MMO. Not a singleplayer game. When somebody gets gear that can truly improve their character, and someone needs it for no apparent reason, they get pretty mad. I've gone in to 1 or 2 rages when it was the final boss of Hammer Station, and the only drop I got was needed and the other guy won it, when he wasn't even my class.

Edited March 18, 2013 by AmberGreen

[xAyahuaskax]

The problem Ratajack is that, at the end of the day, no one benefits from that set of rules which support needing for companion.

[Cernow]

Excuse me? I'm not the OP, I came in here asking for nothing. I am simply defending another player's right to benefit from their efforts. I am not one of the "entitled" generation who feels that I alone deserve the rewards someone else worked to produce.

 

Ah, argument not going so well for you, so you decided to trot out the entitlement line because you read it somewhere and thought it sounded cool?

 

If anyone is entitled its those like yourself and the OP who think they deserve extra for their 25% of the effort by also including their companion's needs in rolls as well as their own. Loving the hypocrisy.

 

Common courtesy. Manners. Politeness. Alien concepts to you?

[Ratajack]

The problem Ratajack is that, at the end of the day, no one benefits from that set of rules which support needing for companion.

 

So because you cannot benefit from allowing the dice to decide, that makes it ok to take away the rights of another so that only you can benefit?

[Ratajack]

Ah, argument not going so well for you, so you decided to trot out the entitlement line because you read it somewhere and thought it sounded cool?

 

If anyone is entitled its those like yourself and the OP who think they deserve extra for their 25% of the effort by also including their companion's needs in rolls as well as their own. Loving the hypocrisy.

 

Common courtesy. Manners. Politeness. Alien concepts to you?

 

Entitlement is when person A decides that they can take person B's rights away from person B just so person A can benefit. How does simply defending person B's rights to benefit from person B's efforts to produce loot make me entitled?

Edited March 17, 2013 by Ratajack

[xAyahuaskax]

I am saying that YOU, me and everyone else don't benefit from it, because in the next run the piece you need for your character can drop and the other member will need it for his companion, and next run the third member will need it. And then you have to do 4th run or more for your chance of roll to increase. So more runs => same reward.

[Drudenfusz]

Have you read all my posts? I'm guessing that you haven't. I do not generally roll need unless it is for my character, but I will defend another player's right to roll for any reason. I will vote no if someone attempts to vote kick a member of the group for rolling need, and maybe my one vote will make a difference, maybe not.

I play normally as a tank, and if you vote to keep someone who is needing on gear for a companion, then I would leave... good luck with finding your next tank or a tank who likes to be treated that way. I will get soon enough a group without anti-social people.

[Cernow]

Entitlement is when person A decides that they can take person B's rights away from person B just so person A can benefit. How does defending person B's rights to benefit from person B's efforts to produce loot make me entitled?

 

Let me make it clearer then:

 

Player A: rolling need for character

Player B: rolling need for character

Player C: rolling need for character

Player D: rolling need for character + companion

 

Who here is wanting more for their share of the effort?

[AlexDougherty]

Entitlement is when person A decides that they can take person B's rights away from person B just so person A can benefit. How does simply defending person B's rights to benefit from person B's efforts to produce loot make me entitled?

Actually entitlement is the feeling that you are entitled to something regardless of whether you've earned it, and in this case you should select greed for nonessential stuff, if the people who need it select greed too, then it's above reproach.

[AsheraII]

This is one of the most hypocritical OPs I have ever seen.

You should look up the definition of hypocritical

[Ratajack]

Let me make it clearer then:

 

Player A: rolling need for character

Player B: rolling need for character

Player C: rolling need for character

Player D: rolling need for character + companion

 

Who here is wanting more for their share of the effort?

 

Player A chooses to roll need for character

Player B chooses to roll need for character

Player C chooses to roll need for character

 

All three have the right to roll need for character and companion, but choose to roll need for character. Their choices do not, in any way, obligate player D from exercising his right to roll need for character and companion.

 

Hypothetically, 4 people work for the same company, and earn the same amount. Three of those four people choose to give 10% of their paychecks to charity, thereby giving up their right to 100% of their checks. Does the fourth person have to give 10% to charity in order to avoid being accused of wanting more for their share of the effort?

[Cernow]

All three have the right to roll need for character and companion, but choose to roll need for character. Their choices do not, in any way, obligate player D from exercising his right to roll need for character and companion.

 

Yes indeed. It's all about choice. Being courteous and considerate is a choice, as is being rude and inconsiderate.

 

Player D can excercise his right to be inconsiderate and Players A, B and C can excercise their rights to vote kick Player D from the group if they aren't happy about it. Player D shouldn't be surprised if they do and then come to the forums expecting sympathy.

[WildbloodX]

As many have said it is a given rule that when everyone is working on an instance for loot companions or secondary and primary is your toon.

 

Should go in this priority order for Need:

1. Your main toon needs it as an upgrade to current gear

2. Your team member's main toon needs it as an upgrade to current grear

3. Your companion needs it as an upgrade to current gear

 

Then if you are not sure type:

Anyone mind if I need this for my comp?

 

Following these simple rules will prevent you getting the ninja rep.

 

I know it is tempting to need gear to improve your soloing ability, but most of us like to run in a grp and in that case your companion is useless.

 

And remember, it's not just you working to complete it, but the entire grp / team. I mean, if you were in a group trying to survive lost in the mountains and you came by some food, would you split the food so all party members could survive longer until you found more food, or save it until all were dead so you could last longer and not have to hunt for food as soon?

[Ratajack]

Yes indeed. It's all about choice. Being courteous and considerate is a choice, as is being rude and inconsiderate.

 

Player D can excercise his right to be inconsiderate and Players A, B and C can excercise their rights to vote kick Player D from the group if they aren't happy about it. Player D shouldn't be surprised if they do and then come to the forums expecting sympathy.

 

So, it's inconsiderate for player d to exercise his right to roll on loot he helped produce, but it's perfectly reasonable for players A,B and C to want to deny another player the right to benefit from their efforts?

 

If I'm in that group, player D gets my vote to remain, and no player D will not be me. As I said, I choose to roll need for my character, but I will back the player who chooses to exercise his right to roll. I do not expect the rest of the group to make the same choice that I make, and I am not offended or upset if they don't. Losing a roll is not the end of the world, nor the end of the game.

[Ratajack]

if you were in a group trying to survive lost in the mountains and you came by some food, would you split the food so all party members could survive longer until you found more food, or save it until all were dead so you could last longer and not have to hunt for food as soon?

 

I find it ironic that you use this as an example since you are advocating denying someone the benefits of the fruits of their labors.

 

When you solo that boss that drops the nice shiny you want, then and only then do you have the right to tell someone that you are the only one who can roll need on it. If you are relying on the efforts of others to kill that boss, then those others have just as much right as you to reap the rewards. You can disguise it any way you want. It still boils down to a false sense of entitlement if you feel you deserve that shiny any more than another member of the party who helped produce that shiny.

 

Call me old fashioned, but consideration goes both ways. It is considerate to roll need for character only, but it is just as considerate to allow the rest of your party the right to roll as they see fit, since there would be no roll without the entire party.

[Levity]

I am going to put this politely. Once you are in raids, it is extremely bad ettiquette to ever role on something you don't need. It's not a big deal in lower lvls because you are always swapping gear, but when you take 3 hours out of your night with 7 other people to role through an operation, it's not fair to sit there and roll need on everything your companion "needs."

 

Learn that now, or you will never find yourself in an ops group willing to deal with that bs.

[Aebrynis]

be ready to see this bump to 10/10 for strentching it out to at least 10 pages.

 

And we're at 10/10.

 

The last time I had someone Needing on things he couldn't use (a Gunslinger), I remarked "Ah, okay, so we're all rolling Need on all the drops now. Cool."

 

Well, I wasn't actually cool with it, but everyone started rolling Need, so it was fine. If I came away with something a Smuggler could use, I handed it over to the Scoundrel who was doing our heals. I won the roll, so I get to decide what to do with it. I was fortunate (?) there were no Consular drops that trip through, thus insuring that I didn't get anything I actually needed, but the Scoundrel reciprocated by handing me the Aim chest armor she got, and said "For Qyzen". I was particularly amused when the Guardian won the much-coveted handgun drop...and also handed it to the Scoundrel.

 

You reap what you sow.

[SithKoriandr]

Came across two flashpoints yesterday where I was verbally talked down to by a gamer each time for winning loot for my companion. I dont understand the big deal. Why the sense of entitlement over another gamer? If I see an item that would be needed for my companion to equip im going to roll for it. If someone else wins it, cool, good for them as far as im concerned. If i win it f, suddenly there are problems.

First flashpoint came across an item, i passed as neither i nor my companions needed it, Second one selected need for my tank. Got it. Third one, great for my tank, selected need, got it again. Then got told I was scum and voted off.

Second one, passed on two items, third one great for my tank, selected need and was told I had no right if it was for my companion and that I cant select need. I say why not? Out of 13 loot drops in that flashpoint i chose need on 2. How is that greedy?

 

As far as im concerned, im a paid subscriber. Why should some other gamer dictate to me what I can or cannot do to benefit them? If someone wants help on a mission or flashpoint and asks me, ill have no problem helping them but if i see something my tank needs, im selecting need. Im certainly not going to cry over it if someone else wins it. This sense of entitlement over someone else is baffling. There is no rulebook in the game that states that you cant do it and everyone who rolls for it has an equal chance

 

While I don't do this, because basically it's known as bad form, unless I ask the group AHEAD of time. Like when I do a Black Talon, but what I want is one specific piece from that FP (like the Black Talon Marauder Tunic)...I agree with you.

 

The other players should get over it. Instead of booting you, they should let you either select need/greed as you see fit, or quit themselves. You joined the FP, you helped them get that far, instead of kicking you, they should have quit themselves or continued on.

[Levity]

I find it ironic that you use this as an example since you are advocating denying someone the benefits of the fruits of their labors.

 

When you solo that boss that drops the nice shiny you want, then and only then do you have the right to tell someone that you are the only one who can roll need on it. If you are relying on the efforts of others to kill that boss, then those others have just as much right as you to reap the rewards. You can disguise it any way you want. It still boils down to a false sense of entitlement if you feel you deserve that shiny any more than another member of the party who helped produce that shiny.

 

Call me old fashioned, but consideration goes both ways. It is considerate to roll need for character only, but it is just as considerate to allow the rest of your party the right to roll as they see fit, since there would be no roll without the entire party.

 

No that is not how it works. And it is not being entitled. And may I tell you how? It doesn't matter if a smuggler item drops, I guarantee if a non smuggler guy rolls need on it and wins he will hear something from every class in the group. Rolling need on something that doesn't benefitt you in anyway is an entitled attitude. Companions don't change the name of the loot game in MMO's. It is rude to group up with people who are taking the time just like you to do a FP/Ops, whatever it may be, and roll on possible upgrades for your other group members. What so if 3 peices of gear dropped that your companion could use and a guy in the group also could use it and you won all three. How does that sound right or fair? You are entitled to be a rude ******* in the game for sure. But don't expect to continue to be able to do group content.

[Lung_Tien_Lien]

So, it's inconsiderate for player d to exercise his right to roll on loot he helped produce, but it's perfectly reasonable for players A,B and C to want to deny another player the right to benefit from their efforts?

 

I'm still wondering if you're trolling. I know this is annoying to hear if you aren't, but I've been reading your posts and have no idea how someone can come to the conclusions you've arrived at.

 

Look, players A, B and C aren't denying player D the loot at all - they're asking for equal chances for everyone. Why is player D more entitled to the loot than the other players? Because they "choose" not to need? "For charity" presumably (going by the example in one of your other posts)?

 

Where does this mindset that you're defending lead? When are people supposed to select greed then? When they're feeling generous? This would lead to most people always rolling need. I know I would. Why select greed if they guy needing the item might just sell it anyway? Fair enough, but then why do we have this system at all? Why not give everyone equal chances to begin with?

[Wraiven]

Funny how he is the one with the self entitlement attitude, while all while telling everyone else they are the ones have the issue. It's like the towel calling all the normal people who clearly are not towels....a towel.

[river_of_Gem]

Funnily enough while some guy like Rataja ( sould like Ratatta lol ) etc can keep arguing over and over to show how dangerous they are ( sad i know ) i can just vote kick a ninja and he will end up on several tank's ignore list ( me and my guild )

 

Keep debating !

[Elyssandra]

...so you decided to trot out the entitlement line because you read it somewhere and thought it sounded cool?

 

lol

 

BTW Ratajack, after some complaints, the loot was 'fixed" so only loot for classes that are present in the FP drop.

So for eg if an aim piece drops, it is because a trooper player is actually in your flashpoint.

 

When you need on a piece for your companion you're effectively denying it to the class that can use it.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Elyssandra

[Akash]

Need is for you (and then only if it is an upgrade), greed is for companions. Vote kick incoming for violations. End of story.