Selecting need for loot

[ZionHalcyon]

Instance bosses do not drop loot for which there is no class present. It doesn't take into account what companions are available to those classes, only the classes themselves.

 

This was fixed at some point, but is broken again - I've seen it happen on occasion still, although not as often as it was before the fix.

[CelCawdro]

This was fixed at some point, but is broken again - I've seen it happen on occasion still, although not as often as it was before the fix.

 

The intent is still clear. I've only really encountered non-class gear when running without a full group - the empty slot might be randomized or something. But in any case, situations in which gear that doesn't suit the classes present (even if it fits their companions) are not intended.

[Never_Hesitate]

This was fixed at some point, but is broken again - I've seen it happen on occasion still, although not as often as it was before the fix.

 

I remember my first ev hc run, my andronikus was better equipped than me after it ^^

no agents in the group but only agent drops

[CelCawdro]

I remember my first ev hc run, my andronikus was better equipped than me after it ^^

no agents in the group but only agent drops

 

Early situations like that were precisely the reason why the system was "rigged" to ensure that loot would drop for classes present. This wasn't a launch feature, although it was discussed before it.

[SWGEvictee]

Instance bosses do not drop loot for which there is no class present. It doesn't take into account what companions are available to those classes, only the classes themselves.

 

This is incorrect. Bosses drop items all the time with stats no one in group but a companion can use. Not saying it takes companions in mind when factoring the loot roll but it can drop loot for classes which are not present.

[Never_Hesitate]

Early situations like that were precisely the reason why the system was "rigged" to ensure that loot would drop for classes present. This wasn't a launch feature, although it was discussed before it.

 

And it's good that they implemented it

[ZionHalcyon]

This is incorrect. Bosses drop items all the time with stats no one in group but a companion can use. Not saying it takes companions in mind when factoring the loot roll but it can drop loot for classes which are not present.

 

It can, and will, but it isn't that common, and it seems to occur more on certain bosses in certain flashpoints than anything else.

[SWGEvictee]

As for the topic as a whole, at end game content where companions are no longer integral to a players advancement I agree need should not be rolled for a companion. But the system is lacking as gearing a companion should always take precedence over simply vendoring or REing.

 

However while leveling a players companion is vital to their ability to advance through the content. The companion simply is the player as much as their avatar. Therefore at that point needing on gear for the companion is no different from needing on gear for the player's avatar. Both are an immediate upgrade for the player as a whole.

[ZionHalcyon]

As for the topic as a whole, at end game content where companions are no longer integral to a players advancement I agree need should not be rolled for a companion. But the system is lacking as gearing a companion should always take precedence over simply vendoring or REing.

 

However while leveling a players companion is vital to their ability to advance through the content. The companion simply is the player as much as their avatar. Therefore at that point needing on gear for the companion is no different from needing on gear for the player's avatar. Both are an immediate upgrade for the player as a whole.

 

You are using a faulty premise. Gearing a companion is NOT vital to their ability to advance through content. Indeed, the PRESENCE stat affects companions more than gear will. Just gearing up your companion in level-appropriate green gear is enough to advance through content, as I and others have done so a number of times. I have 6 level 50's and almost all my comps are "undergeared" by player standards. The key word here is "level-appropriate". I am not talking about taking a comp into a level 50 class story instance with level 10 gear. But just the cheapest level 50 green gear does the job just fine.

 

So enough of this bullcrap of "I need to gear my comp to do content" - you can do that off the GTN with cheap stuff. Its just a crutch, and excuse, and a poor and inaccurate one at that. Not to mention, just by doing class quests and side quests, you can pick comp gear as rewards that will enable your comp to be fully geared until the next planet, which will have its own comp gear rewards.

 

So there is no reason to buck the social convention and need on comp gear without asking permission first other than to be a selfish arrogant self-entitled jerk. And if you are that, then buck up when you reap the whirlwind of consequences instead of whining that no one likes you.

Edited March 19, 2013 by ZionHalcyon

[Elyssandra]

I know full well that when I choose to roll greed because the item is not a direct upgrade for my character, that one of the other players may choose to roll need. By rolling greed, I am CHOOSING to take my chances, not ASSUMING that the rest of the group will roll greed. We all know what happens when you assume.

 

26 pages of people saying otherwise and then there's you & OP. Sounds like you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Let' get this over with.

 

Ratajack What server do you play on?

Ratajack what are you char names?

 

OP Jonrobbie what server do you play on?

Jonrobbie what are your toon names?

[Ratajack]

26 pages of people saying otherwise and then there's you & OP. Sounds like you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Let' get this over with.

 

Ratajack What server do you play on?

Ratajack what are you char names?

 

OP Jonrobbie what server do you play on?

Jonrobbie what are your toon names?

 

Even if you found yourself grouped with me, you'd probably never even know it, as I do choose to roll greed if it is not a direct upgrade for my character.

[Emencie]

Surprising that there is 27 pages of this let me help you out OP

Came across two flashpoints yesterday where I was verbally talked down to by a gamer each time for winning loot for my companion. I dont understand the big deal. Why the sense of entitlement over another gamer?

Because You were told not to do it seemingly unanimously by your party. The group as whole decided on the rules of the run and you broke them.

 

If I see an item that would be needed for my companion to equip im going to roll for it. If someone else wins it, cool, good for them as far as im concerned. If i win it f, suddenly there are problems.

The problem isn't that you won, the problem is that you didn't follow the rules of the group.

 

First flashpoint came across an item, i passed as neither i nor my companions needed it, Second one selected need for my tank. Got it. Third one, great for my tank, selected need, got it again. Then got told I was scum and voted off. Second one, passed on two items, third one great for my tank, selected need and was told I had no right if it was for my companion and that I cant select need. I say why not? Out of 13 loot drops in that flashpoint i chose need on 2. How is that greedy?

It's not about greed, rather it is about your disregard for your fellow party members, and the rules set forth by your party.

 

As far as im concerned, im a paid subscriber. Why should some other gamer dictate to me what I can or cannot do to benefit them?

in a group the party comes first than yourself. Because of this there are certain unwritten rules that people follow to ensure everyone has a good time and equal chance at getting loot. This means that we all have to take concessions but are all better rewarded for it.

 

If someone wants help on a mission or flashpoint and asks me, ill have no problem helping them but if i see something my tank needs, im selecting need. Im certainly not going to cry over it if someone else wins it. This sense of entitlement over someone else is baffling. There is no rulebook in the game that states that you cant do it and everyone who rolls for it has an equal chance

There is no official rulebook only a customary one. Just like there is no official rulebook that says you have to wait in line at the bank, grocery store, post office or for a ride at the amusement park. And while you may not cry over someone moving to in front of you, and you can certainly argue that they all have the same ability to cut in front of line and say that they have no reason for entitlement to that position in the line, it is socially accepted that you do not do that. If you chose to ignore those social rules it is not uncommon or unfathomable that you will be removed from the bank, grocery store, post office, or theme park.

 

That is what your group did to you. Removed you for not following the socially acceptable practices, even after you were told what they were. Next time I suggest asking what the group wants then following whatever the group as a whole decides, rather than saying "screw them I only care about what is best for me"

Edited March 19, 2013 by Emencie

[uziforyou]

As to your question, and how it fits in with my personal views on the loot system, here is my answer. The need roll is for a direct upgrade-either for your character or your companion, while the greed roll would apply if the item dropped is not a direct upgrade for your character or your companion. You may not agree with it, but it does answer your question.

 

An example would be if a shadow is running Esseles and a cunning chest piece drops. Neither the shadow nor Qyzen (likely the shadow's only companion, at that point) use cunning as a primary stat. The shadow rolls greed. The next boss drops a pair of boots with aim. The shadow rolls need because the boots are an upgrqade for Qyzen.

 

This thread is great. I can write down names of those supporting the OP's non-sense and put them on my ignore list (if they're on the same server).

 

And yes, I disgree with you. You're flat out wrong no matter how many ways you try to justify it as you've tried throughout this thread. The fact that the vast majority of people see your view as heretical should hit home with you. It won't because you've already so much as stated that your view is the correct one and nobody or nothing is going to alter that view.

[SWGEvictee]

You are using a faulty premise. Gearing a companion is NOT vital to their ability to advance through content. Indeed, the PRESENCE stat affects companions more than gear will. Just gearing up your companion in level-appropriate green gear is enough to advance through content, as I and others have done so a number of times. I have 6 level 50's and almost all my comps are "undergeared" by player standards. The key word here is "level-appropriate". I am not talking about taking a comp into a level 50 class story instance with level 10 gear. But just the cheapest level 50 green gear does the job just fine.

 

So enough of this bullcrap of "I need to gear my comp to do content" - you can do that off the GTN with cheap stuff. Its just a crutch, and excuse, and a poor and inaccurate one at that. Not to mention, just by doing class quests and side quests, you can pick comp gear as rewards that will enable your comp to be fully geared until the next planet, which will have its own comp gear rewards.

 

So there is no reason to buck the social convention and need on comp gear without asking permission first other than to be a selfish arrogant self-entitled jerk. And if you are that, then buck up when you reap the whirlwind of consequences instead of whining that no one likes you.

 

How about enough of your bullcrap! Presence is great and dandy if you have those 6 50s with full companion affection on all companions, but what about the new player who doesn't have multiple 50s yet?

 

God I get so sick of the high handed bull***** that gets posted on this topic. I can understand if someone us snagging stuff they can not use. But to continually tell players that they have no right to roll on items that they can use and will directly benefit from just because you have deemed that they can do without it.

 

I heartily wish BW had just put the comps in auto leveling gear or allowed them to only equip comp specific gear. If they had I wouldn't have to repeatedly hear the cries of,"NO NO NO THAT'S MY GEAR!!! HOW DARE YOU TRY AND TAKE THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN USE IT!!!". Honestly that is the far more greedy and selfish attitude. To tell other players that they have no right to equip themselves as best they can because you want a higher chance at snagging something for yourself.

[Lostpenguins]

How about enough of your bullcrap! Presence is great and dandy if you have those 6 50s with full companion affection on all companions, but what about the new player who doesn't have multiple 50s yet?

 

God I get so sick of the high handed bull***** that gets posted on this topic. I can understand if someone us snagging stuff they can not use. But to continually tell players that they have no right to roll on items that they can use and will directly benefit from just because you have deemed that they can do without it.

 

I heartily wish BW had just put the comps in auto leveling gear or allowed them to only equip comp specific gear. If they had I wouldn't have to repeatedly hear the cries of,"NO NO NO THAT'S MY GEAR!!! HOW DARE YOU TRY AND TAKE THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN USE IT!!!". Honestly that is the far more greedy and selfish attitude. To tell other players that they have no right to equip themselves as best they can because you want a higher chance at snagging something for yourself.

It doesn't matter how angry you are. The general consensus it that companions are not on the same priority as your actual toon. You can rationalize all you want, but in the community, the majority viewpoint wins. You're going to get backlash and a possible kick from a group if you take an item for your companion over someone who actually needs it on their toon they're playing.

 

Fair warning.

[CelCawdro]

How about enough of your bullcrap! Presence is great and dandy if you have those 6 50s with full companion affection on all companions, but what about the new player who doesn't have multiple 50s yet?

 

God I get so sick of the high handed bull***** that gets posted on this topic. I can understand if someone us snagging stuff they can not use. But to continually tell players that they have no right to roll on items that they can use and will directly benefit from just because you have deemed that they can do without it.

 

I heartily wish BW had just put the comps in auto leveling gear or allowed them to only equip comp specific gear. If they had I wouldn't have to repeatedly hear the cries of,"NO NO NO THAT'S MY GEAR!!! HOW DARE YOU TRY AND TAKE THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN USE IT!!!". Honestly that is the far more greedy and selfish attitude. To tell other players that they have no right to equip themselves as best they can because you want a higher chance at snagging something for yourself.

 

You have every right to access to that gear using the tools provided.

The group has every right to deal with players who are being discourteous with the tools provided.

 

How is a "SW:G Evictee" so blind to the power of community? That was SW:G's one redeeming quality.

 

Edited March 19, 2013 by CelCawdro

[Ratajack]

This thread is great. I can write down names of those supporting the OP's non-sense and put them on my ignore list (if they're on the same server).

 

And yes, I disgree with you. You're flat out wrong no matter how many ways you try to justify it as you've tried throughout this thread. The fact that the vast majority of people see your view as heretical should hit home with you. It won't because you've already so much as stated that your view is the correct one and nobody or nothing is going to alter that view.

 

What I have stated time and time again, is that I do not force my views on other people, nor do I expect everyone to make the same choices that I make. I respect both sides of this discussion, which is why even though I choose to roll greed if it is not a direct upgrade for my character, I will defend another player's right to roll need if they so choose.

[Emencie]

How about enough of your bullcrap! Presence is great and dandy if you have those 6 50s with full companion affection on all companions, but what about the new player who doesn't have multiple 50s yet?

 

God I get so sick of the high handed bull***** that gets posted on this topic. I can understand if someone us snagging stuff they can not use. But to continually tell players that they have no right to roll on items that they can use and will directly benefit from just because you have deemed that they can do without it.

 

I heartily wish BW had just put the comps in auto leveling gear or allowed them to only equip comp specific gear. If they had I wouldn't have to repeatedly hear the cries of,"NO NO NO THAT'S MY GEAR!!! HOW DARE YOU TRY AND TAKE THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN USE IT!!!". Honestly that is the far more greedy and selfish attitude. To tell other players that they have no right to equip themselves as best they can because you want a higher chance at snagging something for yourself.

 

Hey buddy it has nothing to do with rights. It has to do with compromise for the sake of the team.

 

A simple fact is everyone can use everything. Even if you cannot equip an instance drop All enhancements are useable by everyone, and so taking the enhancement out is a use. Also everyone needs credits, and everything in a flashpoint can be sold. So everyone in the group agrees to forgo upgrading their pets or gaining a bit more money unless the drop in question is not needed by another player. Every single person makes that concession in the group, when 1 member decides to forgo that and just need on whatever they want, they are breaking the social rule the group put in place. This causes chaos in the group and I have personally seen it lead to everyone rolling need on everything and no one getting any items they actually did want.

 

The social rule is in place so everyone gets the best chances at getting an item in the run. Also if you talk to your group you would learn that most people are OK with you needing for your companion as long as no one else needed that Item. So you can get your upgrade for your companion without pissing everyone off. Just ask "Hey ______ Class player, Can I roll need on that for my Companion?" sometimes They may actually need the upgrade and say so. you should respect that and know that when loot drops for your class, they will do the same. but often you will find the person just says "sure, I don't need it go ahead."

 

Doing that instead of just hitting need goes along way. Like saying please and thank you, it's just good manners.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Emencie

[SWGEvictee]

It doesn't matter how angry you are. The general consensus it that companions are not on the same priority as your actual toon. You can rationalize all you want, but in the community, the majority viewpoint wins. You're going to get backlash and a possible kick from a group if you take an item for your companion over someone who actually needs it on their toon they're playing.

 

Fair warning.

 

Excuse me but where did I ever state that I take items for my comp in game? I haven't because I don't. I understand the majority view point on the topic and I don't buck it in game.

 

However I do expect to be able to discuss it rationally here on the forums without all the attitude from people who get all offended because I happen to gave a different viewpoint. You want to disagree with me thats fine go ahead but drop the I'm holier than tho because you don't automatically agree with my unwritten rules!

[ZionHalcyon]

It doesn't matter how angry you are. The general consensus it that companions are not on the same priority as your actual toon. You can rationalize all you want, but in the community, the majority viewpoint wins. You're going to get backlash and a possible kick from a group if you take an item for your companion over someone who actually needs it on their toon they're playing.

 

Fair warning.

 

Agreed, and on top of it, the emotional response proves that he didn't have a logical one to come back with.

 

These jerks are in the wrong and they get mad when they are cornered by facts. And the idea of manners when rolling for loot seems to be beyond them.

 

I liken it to this - the internet creates an air of anonymity that makes jerks feel entitled to act like selfish jagbags online. This of course carries over to an MMO where they think they can still behave like reprehensible jerks without consequence. So usually it comes as a complete and total shock that those who do play MMOs aren't all as selfish as they are, have some degree of societal understanding, and have established rules in place, and when these jerks decide to be "cute" and fly in the face of those rules and commit MMO taboo, they get punished for it, which is a shock to them as there is no real way to punish these internet-muscle-flexing jerks over the net.

 

So like any spoiled brat, when finally given their come-uppance, they take to the forums and start to complain that they can't get away with their brand of anti-social bullcrap in-game.

 

And to them, I say, tough. Deal with it and grow up.

Edited March 19, 2013 by ZionHalcyon

[SWGEvictee]

Agreed, and on top of it, the emotional response proves that he didn't have a logical one to come back with.

 

These jerks are in the wrong and they get mad when they are cornered by facts.

 

I was holding a rational discussion on the topic. You pop in and tell me to drop the bullcrap and mire or less accuse me of being a selfish greedy bastich even tho I never claimed to have needed for a comp in game regardless of my opinions on it and I'm the jerk?

 

You know Zion I used to respect you. These days I'm wondering how you so completely pulled the wool over my eyes.

[Lostpenguins]

Excuse me but where did I ever state that I take items for my comp in game? I haven't because I don't. I understand the majority view point on the topic and I don't buck it in game.

 

However I do expect to be able to discuss it rationally here on the forums without all the attitude from people who get all offended because I happen to gave a different viewpoint. You want to disagree with me thats fine go ahead but drop the I'm holier than tho because you don't automatically agree with my unwritten rules!

It's not a holier than thou attitude. I'm telling you how it is.

 

You can discuss this until you're blue in the face, but you're not going to change people's mind. Nothing in my post that you quoted is telling you that you're wrong, or "here's why I'm right". I'm just telling you how the the community works in this game. I'm neither condoning nor supporting your viewpoint. You need to ease up a bit. I'm telling you what will happen whether you're right or not.

[Datku]

General Loot Etiquette when in a group (for the life of me I don't understand why this is still an issue for people unless they just haven't played MMO's before):

 

Need: Need is when an item is an upgrade for the character you are currently on and will be equipped as soon as possible.

 

Exceptions: (using need to over-ride greed rolls after asking permission)

 

1.) The item will be an upgrade in a level or two. Generally considered nice to state that the item will be an upgrade once you obtain level and ask the group if anyone has a problem with you needing it. This is done in case there is someone in your group at level that can equip the item now. They may respond they don't care if you need or not meaning they are willing to roll against you for the item. Or they may say they can use now meaning they would prefer if you can not use the item now then let someone that can get it first. You can still need on it but you risk upsetting the balance or offending someone and could get kicked from group.

 

2.) You see others have rolled greed for an item that you can use in a level or two or could use for a companion. You first ask the group if anyone would mind if I need that for and give reason. Example: For when I reach level or for my companion. Generally asking the group they will say sure or go for it. If someone contests it by saying I can use that for my companion too but they have already selected greed then Etiquette would dictate that you should greed as well to keep things fair and peaceful. Needing after asking and having someone challenge the item is a good way to tick off others in group and cause extra drama that could get you kicked from group. If the item is for your class in a level or two generally that would be seen as a need over giving it to a companion and people should let you need it since it is for the character you on currently on. (Example a piece of heavy armor drops and no one else in group uses heavy armor but it is 2 levels higher than you. You can need for the item since it will be an upgrade for your current character and should not cause any issues with others in the group even if they are wanting for a companion. Companions are seen as a greed option 99% of the time but asking the group you can sometimes need for a companion as long as the group has no problem with it. Don't assume that the group saying sure no problem for one item gives you the right to need on anything for the same reason the rest of the run. Be fair. )

 

3.) A Bind on Equip item drops and you do not need for your current character. You can ask the group if you can need on the item for an alt or companion. Group will say either sure or will say no because with it being BoE anyone in the group could use it for an alt or companion or even to sell in which case all should roll greed and let Random chance decide.

 

4.) An item completes a set. Again good thing to do is to ask the group. Hey can I need on this its a piece of a set I am collecting. Group will say no problem and you can roll need or if they do have any issues will expect you to roll greed and take your chances like everyone else.

 

**Generally by communicating with your group you can avoid situations where others get upset over drops. Its a social decision. You can either cooperate and have a good time or be a jerk and get booted, called a ninja, or get a bad rep on your server.

 

Greed: The item is not an upgrade but could be an upgrade for an alt, companion, or just to vendor for coin.

 

You can ask your group if you can need on a greed item and most times groups will not have a problem as long as you ask. Otherwise most situations if its not an upgrade for the character you are on then you should just greed anything else and take your chances like everyone else. Greed is the easiest choice to avoid any group drama. You are taking a chance like everyone else so it feels more fair and less likely to offend or make others upset. Some will even say even if you can use for an alt or companion you should still greed and if someone else wins ask them privately if you can have or buy the item from them (more so now that even Bind on Pickup items can be traded to eligible group members for 2 hours). Again the biggest key is communication. You will find most people are easy going and as long as you ask they have no problem with you needing in a greed situation. But if you need in a greed situation without communicating with your group you run the risk of offending or ticking someone off which could get you kicked from group, and or a bad reputation.

 

 

Pass: Easy one...you have no need in an item, really don't care who gets it, not even interested in vendoring for coin.

 

Generally people that are already geared out or financially comfortable will pass on most things so that those that could use the item can get it. I often run flash points just to pass time. There is nothing that I need or could even use and maybe I am grouped with new to lvl characters or less financially secure players so will often pass on everything so that others can get the items to use or vendor to help them out. Personal choice and a social choice.

 

 

Again the main thing is communication. Most players are pretty laid back and if no one else has a greater need for a drop will have no problem letting you pick up the drop for other use. If someone else has a greater need then you should greed/pass (Say the tank in your group needs an item you should not need roll for your tank companion as well...quick way to tick someone off). If someone has an issue with you needing when they could also claim need then generally both agree to need or everyone just greed's and let fate decide. If you just need willy nilly then you are bound to offend someone and risk getting kicked, or a bad reputation. Some people don't care and only think of themselves and will need every thing because they are in the flash point and feel entitled or just being jerks to be a jerk. These are the loot ninja's people often comment about and the cause why some people are less tolerant of others needing items their character can not use regardless if its for an alt or a companion. Most people will say Need only for the character you are on, greed for alts and companions as a flat rule. But again if you communicate with your group you can need in other situations and not tick anyone off.

 

TLDR: Need for your current character only if you can equip right away. Greed for anything else (alt, companion, vendor, GTN). Communicate with your group if you want to do something different and abide by the consensus.

[SWGEvictee]

It's not a holier than thou attitude. I'm telling you how it is.

 

You can discuss this until you're blue in the face, but you're not going to change people's mind. Nothing in my post that you quoted is telling you that you're wrong, or "here's why I'm right". I'm just telling you how the the community works in this game. I'm neither condoning nor supporting your viewpoint. You need to ease up a bit. I'm telling you what will happen whether you're right or not.

 

 

I was eased up. Until undeserved crap was hurled my way then I answered in kind. To address your point here civilly I may not change anything by discussing it. But I guarantee that there is no chance of it ever changing if I accept it when people tell me that's just the way it is you'll just have to deal with it.

[Ratajack]

It's not a holier than thou attitude. I'm telling you how it is.

 

You can discuss this until you're blue in the face, but you're not going to change people's mind. Nothing in my post that you quoted is telling you that you're wrong, or "here's why I'm right". I'm just telling you how the the community works in this game. I'm neither condoning nor supporting your viewpoint. You need to ease up a bit. I'm telling you what will happen whether you're right or not.

 

You want to use the "this is how the community works in this game" argument. This may only be a game, but here's a real life example of how "this is how society works and don't buck it or you can expect consequences" attitude can be wrong, just as that same attitude in game may not always be right.

 

60 years ago, African Americans weren't allowed to eat at certain establishments, drink from certain fountains and in general had almost all of their rights as human beings taken away from them because that was how society worked. If you chose to buck society's convention, you did so at your own risk. There would be consequences, some of them fatal to the offender. The fact that "everyone does it, that's just how it is" makes it no less wrong.

 

I know there will be massive amounts of "you can't compare that real life situation with a dumb video game" outcries, but each and everyone who threatens consequences for a person exercising his right to roll on loot he helped to produce in favor of "the social convention" is attempting to take away the rights of another. I know that the vast majority of players will flame me, but that does not change what is. If the players threatening consequences actually took a step back and looked the situation objectively, they might see the forest instead of just the trees.