Luke (post-GrandMaster) vs Revan (post-KotOR)

[Aurbere]

But that doesn't add up to the saying "Most powerful Sith ever", because basically he requires a clone after a time.

 

Lets try this: an Old man can't run a marathon (possibly could) but he would die doing so.

A young man can run a marathon without a problem.

 

if the darkside taxes him greatly means he doesn't posses that energy, because he never can use it.

 

laws of conservation of energy would not agree with this.

 

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

 

The physical body doesn't matter. Palpatine's strength in the Dark Side is greater than any Sith Lord before him. While his body is destroyed, his spirit remains and he can just transfer to another body to continue his reign of terror. He can still unleash the power that comes with being the most powerful Sith Lord ever.

[ZahirS]

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

 

The physical body doesn't matter. Palpatine's strength in the Dark Side is greater than any Sith Lord before him. While his body is destroyed, his spirit remains and he can just transfer to another body to continue his reign of terror. He can still unleash the power that comes with being the most powerful Sith Lord ever.

 

Still I pointed out how SW universe is flawed with darkside corruption

 

Yet

 

"The force is all around us, binds us, luminous beigns are we not this crude matter"

 

The force binds the galaxy together, so that means energy is shared, so no darkside nexus, no "most more powerful being"

Edited May 3, 2013 by ZahirS

[Aurbere]

Still I pointed out how SW universe is flawed with darkside corruption

 

Yet

 

"The force is all around us, binds us, luminous beigns are we not this crude matter"

 

The force binds the galaxy together, so that means energy is shared, so no darkside nexus, no "most more powerful being"

 

Flawed logic. There are several places in the galaxy that are stronger than others. Korriban was a nexus, as was Malachor (and so many other locations) Palpatine himself had become so powerful, so infused with the Dark Side, that he was a nexus of the Dark Side. So powerful was his corruption that he made Byss a nexus of the Dark Side simply by being there.

 

The Force is not equally spread across the galaxy. It is not a pie that is separated equally to every individual. Some are strong, others are not. Palpatine and Luke just so happen to be the strongest.

[adormitul]

I know is not the treads topic but can Palpatine still use force powers if he took non force users bodies? Edited May 3, 2013 by adormitul

[Wolfninjajedi]

I know is not the treads topic but can Palpatine still use force powers if he took non force users bodies?

 

Probably I don't see why not because he is transferring his entire being, power and all into someone and taking control over their body.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[seekerofpower]

Probably I don't see why not because he is transferring his entire being, power and all into someone and taking control over their body.

 

Except force power is determined my midi-chlorian count. Midi-chlorians are in the body, thus why a dna sample from Anakin could be analyzed to determine it.

 

It is why Vitiate uses force sensitives as his voices and children. They have to be, or he wouldn't be able to use force powers when he took over their bodies.

Edited May 3, 2013 by seekerofpower

[Wolfninjajedi]

Except force power is determined my midi-chlorian count. Midi-chlorians are in the body, thus why a dna sample from Anakin could be analyzed to determine it.

 

It is why Vitiate uses force sensitives as his voices and children. They have to be, or he wouldn't be able to use force powers when he took over their bodies.

 

As said speculation, cause we don't know what would happen if Palpatine transferred himself into a non-force user. It hasn't been done before.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[FuryoftheStars]

As said speculation, cause we don't know what would happen if Palpatine transferred himself into a non-force user. It hasn't been done before.

Yeah, and probably the reason that seekerofpower stated is exactly why it hasn't been done.

 

Although, really, we're trying to establish "real" rules on a fictional power. It's all up for interpretation (except for GL, of course )

[Wolfninjajedi]

Yeah, and probably the reason that seekerofpower stated is exactly why it hasn't been done.

 

Although, really, we're trying to establish "real" rules on a fictional power. It's all up for interpretation (except for GL, of course )

 

Well anything is possible in fiction. You wanna make flying cupcakes that can fire laser beams, then go for it!

[FuryoftheStars]

Well anything is possible in fiction. You wanna make flying cupcakes that can fire laser beams, then go for it!

 

Well, right... I guess what I meant to say is that we're trying to apply real rules to a fictional thing that is someone else's creation. After all, we're not actually going to see flying cupcakes shooting laser beams in SW, no matter how much one wanted it because it is "unrealistic" in the SWU. Unless of course you take it as a play on words and give a targeting drone an exterior shell that looks like a cupcake....

 

EDIT: The Jedi Master walked into what appeared to be a droid work shop. He could feel a sense of danger in the Force, but all he could see around him were rows upon rows of cupcakes. He reached out with the Force to try and isolate where the danger was. As his sense in the Force passed over the cupcakes he paused, aware that something was wrong.

 

"Those aren't cupcakes...," he said to himself.

 

Suddenly the cupcakes flew up into the air and started circling around him, letting loose with laser bolts.

 

"Those are Battle Drones!"

 

 

Edited May 3, 2013 by FuryoftheStars

[ZahirS]

Flawed logic. There are several places in the galaxy that are stronger than others. Korriban was a nexus, as was Malachor (and so many other locations) Palpatine himself had become so powerful, so infused with the Dark Side, that he was a nexus of the Dark Side. So powerful was his corruption that he made Byss a nexus of the Dark Side simply by being there.

 

The Force is not equally spread across the galaxy. It is not a pie that is separated equally to every individual. Some are strong, others are not. Palpatine and Luke just so happen to be the strongest.

 

Not really flawed, a nexus in the darkside requires energy to be a nexus, assuming the darkside is the absense of life then no "single beign" can be a nexus, hence the corruption of the darkside.

 

Note Im using SW universe rules now, the flawed logic is your aurbere keep using your dogmatic George Lucas views lets see where it takes you.

[FuryoftheStars]

Not really flawed, a nexus in the darkside requires energy to be a nexus, assuming the darkside is the absense of life then no "single beign" can be a nexus, hence the corruption of the darkside.

 

Note Im using SW universe rules now, the flawed logic is your aurbere keep using your dogmatic George Lucas views lets see where it takes you.

 

Actually, I don't think Darkside is the absence of life. If you remember from Ep V, Yoda sends Luke into a cavern, stating that it was strong in the Darkside of the Force, yet we clearly see that there are still critters and what not in the area. EU suggests that Yoda picked Dagobah to hide because this Darkside presence would mask his own to Sidius and Vader. I would think, in order for that to happen, the Darkside presence would have to be phenomenal and as such we shouldn't see any creatures anywhere near it (like, probably that whole quadrant of the planet).

[Aurbere]

Not really flawed, a nexus in the darkside requires energy to be a nexus, assuming the darkside is the absense of life then no "single beign" can be a nexus, hence the corruption of the darkside.

 

Note Im using SW universe rules now, the flawed logic is your aurbere keep using your dogmatic George Lucas views lets see where it takes you.

 

So wrong on so many levels... Here we go, I guess.

 

Malachor V= Dark Side nexus. Inhabited by Storm Beasts and Sith.

Korriban= Dark Side nexus. Inhabited by various creatures and Sith.

Byss= Dark Side nexus. Inhabited by millions of people.

 

Just these three planets alone prove your logic wrong. Not only that, but Palpatine's corruption was so powerful that he transformed Byss into a Dark Side nexus. Plus he has been stated to be the most powerful Sith Lord ever. You simply have no argument.

 

And dogmatic George Lucas view? I think it's called obeying the law of the Star Wars universe. Try it sometime.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Aurbere

[ZahirS]

Actually, I don't think Darkside is the absence of life. If you remember from Ep V, Yoda sends Luke into a cavern, stating that it was strong in the Darkside of the Force, yet we clearly see that there are still critters and what not in the area. EU suggests that Yoda picked Dagobah to hide because this Darkside presence would mask his own to Sidius and Vader. I would think, in order for that to happen, the Darkside presence would have to be phenomenal and as such we shouldn't see any creatures anywhere near it (like, probably that whole quadrant of the planet).

 

Yes in the cave there were critters and what now, but the movie tries to make them "intimidating" like the lizards outside the cave in dagobah roars like a dinosaur literally if you see that scene again.

 

Im assuming only darkside creatures can live in darkside places, just like in Korriban or Malachor V you see strange creatures that feed on the darkside.

 

Note I say feed on the darkside, not walking darkside (Palpatine) I just doesn't make sense in SW rules.

Edited May 3, 2013 by ZahirS

[Aurbere]

MORE Force nexuses:

 

The Jedi Temple on Coruscant- inhabited by Jedi.

Vjun- inhabited by, well, people.

Dark Side Cave on Dagobah- inhabited by various creatures.

 

Note I say feed on the darkside, not walking darkside (Palpatine) I just doesn't make sense in SW rules.

 

What is so difficult to get? He's not a manifestation of the Dark Side. He's simply so powerful that his corruption corrupts others. A nexus of the Force is simply an area that is extremely (unusually so) strong with the Force.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Aurbere

[FuryoftheStars]

Yes in the cave there were critters and what now, but the movie tries to make them "intimidating" like the lizards outside the cave in dagobah roars like a dinosaur literally if you see that scene again.

 

Im assuming only darkside creatures can live in darkside places, just like in Korriban or Malachor V you see strange creatures that feed on the darkside.

 

Note I say feed on the darkside, not walking darkside (Palpatine) I just doesn't make sense in SW rules.

 

Oh, ok. But really, when it comes to a creature, anything that is drawn to the light will obviously be repulsed by the dark, and vice versa. Or, the dark could've "corrupted" those creatures that were within its influence.

[Aurbere]

And here's something else:

 

The dark side could also center itself around people and objects. The Sith Lord Darth Sidious was so powerful in the dark side that a nexus of darkness followed him wherever he went

 

Hmm...

[ZahirS]

Oh, ok. But really, when it comes to a creature, anything that is drawn to the light will obviously be repulsed by the dark, and vice versa. Or, the dark could've "corrupted" those creatures that were within its influence.

 

True fury, I think those creatures that live in a darkside enviroment would likely become twisted because of it or feed on the darkside either way seems like natural life is greater in scale to darkside.

 

Now on Palpatine, a walking darkside nexus, how does he get all that energy that can could planets entirely, I mean a fragile Old man can't sustain it he needs clones...yet he does...I got a simpler definition of palpatine:

 

He is the star wars devil, the darkside nexus noone can ever explain because just is...which is stupid.

Edited May 3, 2013 by ZahirS

[FuryoftheStars]

True fury, I think those creatures that live in a darkside enviroment would likely become twisted because of it or feed on the darkside either way seems like natural life is greater in scale to darkside.

 

Now on Palpatine, a walking darkside nexus, how does he get all that energy that can could planets entirely, I mean a fragile Old man can't sustain it he needs clones...yet he does...I got a simpler definition of palpatine:

 

He is the star wars devil, the darkside nexus noone can ever explain because just is...which is stupid.

 

I think it's more likely that the EU has completely blown out of proportion what the Force is or capable of and thus if you tone it down/consider certain EU as being impossible (such as Dark Empire, I believe... the one with Palpatine clones), then it all makes much better sense (IMO).

I think Vader was hinting at something else, not just raw destructive power.

[Wolfninjajedi]

True fury, I think those creatures that live in a darkside enviroment would likely become twisted because of it or feed on the darkside either way seems like natural life is greater in scale to darkside.

 

Now on Palpatine, a walking darkside nexus, how does he get all that energy that can could planets entirely, I mean a fragile Old man can't sustain it he needs clones...yet he does...I got a simpler definition of palpatine:

 

He is the star wars devil, the darkside nexus noone can ever explain because just is...which is stupid.

 

That is pretty much what Lucas was going for, making Palpatine the devil.

[Aurbere]

True fury, I think those creatures that live in a darkside enviroment would likely become twisted because of it or feed on the darkside either way seems like natural life is greater in scale to darkside.

 

Now on Palpatine, a walking darkside nexus, how does he get all that energy that can could planets entirely, I mean a fragile Old man can't sustain it he needs clones...yet he does...I got a simpler definition of palpatine:

 

He is the star wars devil, the darkside nexus noone can ever explain because just is...which is stupid.

 

He needs clones to remain in the physical world. His spirit holds his power, not his clones. His younger clones just allow him to use the power his frail old body could not. Plus they serve as his method for immortality.

[ZahirS]

He needs clones to remain in the physical world. His spirit holds his power, not his clones. His younger clones just allow him to use the power his frail old body could not. Plus they serve as his method for immortality.

 

yet that doesn't add up like I said earlier

 

If he needs clones to sustain "his power", he doesn't have it because not even his clone can sustain him for long.

 

If his "spirit" can have all this power might aswell convert to a force ghost and have "ULIMIIIITED POWAR"

 

you see Palpatine is NOT the most powerful darkside user in existance, he is master mind and is responsible of the jedi purge but HE IS NOT the most powerful entity in Star Wars, just doesn't add up.

[FuryoftheStars]

yet that doesn't add up like I said earlier

 

If he needs clones to sustain "his power", he doesn't have it because not even his clone can sustain him for long.

 

If his "spirit" can have all this power might aswell convert to a force ghost and have "ULIMIIIITED POWAR"

 

you see Palpatine is NOT the most powerful darkside user in existance, he is master mind and is responsible of the jedi purge but HE IS NOT the most powerful entity in Star Wars, just doesn't add up.

 

According to GL, Palpatine and Luke were the most powerful. Like I said, I believe the EU blew this out of proportion.

[Wolfninjajedi]

According to GL, Palpatine and Luke were the most powerful. Like I said, I believe the EU blew this out of proportion.

 

How so? GL never said anything specifics on how big they could increase their power. Though honestly, Sidious/Luke never really seemed to do anything huge. Yes Force Storms is a big thing, but really...that was pretty much it for Sidious in terms of doing something on a big scale the other things he done are rather small in comparison or things he has doneso before his cloned bodies.

 

With Luke...he has done some big stuff sure, but those things are really just big applications of just Force Powers. IE: Making himself immoveable, walking on lava and so on. It isn't like other Jedi if they devoted their time to study and everything, wouldn't be able to do similar things...I mean hell the Dark Woman(who was once a Jedi Master) could teleport/phase through objects, if you want an example.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

yet that doesn't add up like I said earlier

 

If he needs clones to sustain "his power", he doesn't have it because not even his clone can sustain him for long.

 

If his "spirit" can have all this power might aswell convert to a force ghost and have "ULIMIIIITED POWAR"

 

you see Palpatine is NOT the most powerful darkside user in existance, he is master mind and is responsible of the jedi purge but HE IS NOT the most powerful entity in Star Wars, just doesn't add up.

 

He doesn't insta-die after using a Force Storm (I believe it did once, but that was because he couldn't control it). His body just decays rapidly. Not only that, but his feats prior to Dark Empire show him as most powerful Sith (like defeating Yoda, who is the most powerful Jedi pre-Luke). Plus, George Lucas has said that Sidious is the most powerful Sith. Until that statement is retracted or changed, he is the most powerful Sith Lord.

 

Palpatine has shown incredible power before Dark Empire. He just becomes more powerful when placed in a clone body. His clone bodies just decay when his spirit inhabits them. This alone speaks of his strength in the Dark Side.

 

Palpatine had the "uber" power in his old frail body, it just wouldn't be able to handle such tremendous displays for a great deal of time. I believe that is one of the reasons his clones don't last long. I have a theory regarding that, but we'll save that for later.

 

I think you're just going to have to face facts. Palpatine is the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Multiple sources state this ranging from C-canon to G-canon. It may not make sense to you, but the fact of the matter is, Palpatine is the most powerful Sith. Not because of Dark Empire, but because of his actions prior to that. IIRC, George said that he was the most powerful Sith Lord prior to Dark Empire being released.

 

But really, if you need proof, check out a few sourcebooks featuring Palpatine. They will tell you everything you need to know.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Aurbere