Are Sorcerers weak?

[foxmob]

It's not fair to say that if they are healers they are "asking for a carry". That's not true at all. How can any healer be asking for a carry when it's his task to keep his teammates alive? Teams absolutely need healers, it's very difficult to win without one. And any sorc who's good knows that a sorc can carry his team to victory in Huttball with right use of the pull.

yes. healers are essential. re-read what you quoted. I said gunnery commandos are carries. they're bad snipers. and w/o putting that ridiculous bubble stun on everybody in the op, so are lightning spec (that's dps, btw) sorcs.

Edited March 14, 2013 by foxmob

[Rincewend]

Yeah, funny enough that a sorc has to go scientific and spend millions of credits and go PvE for the right mods for outputting 4.5K dmg in PvP once in a while, while others spam 7K styles in standard war hero gear and without even knowing that there's something like min maxing gear.

 

That pretty much says it, tried my Sorc on PTS and guess what, he still hits for next to nothing. If fact you can say it is worse now, with the added HP everyone has gotten.

[Rincewend]

yes. healers are essential. re-read what you quoted. I said gunnery commandos are carries. they're bad snipers. and w/o putting that ridiculous bubble stun on everybody in the op, so are lightning spec (that's dps, btw) sorcs.

 

That pretty much covers it all. I would add Mercs in with commandos (both could use some love). As for the bubble it goes away in 2.0 so lightning sorcs will be carries after that too. But hey they gave us a channeled ability that keeps us alive for 10s. So as someone above posted aleart the med center I will be 10s late.

[Solarenergy]

yes. healers are essential. re-read what you quoted. I said gunnery commandos are carries. they're bad snipers. and w/o putting that ridiculous bubble stun on everybody in the op, so are lightning spec (that's dps, btw) sorcs.

 

Sorry I read it too fast and didn't realize it. You were talking about lightning sorcs. Gotcha.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Solarenergy

[dscount]

Oh the sorc gets a bubble. Quick, someone call the Med Center and tell em the sorc will be 10 seconds late !

 

OMG - Thzt is funny! Completely true, sad and funny at the same time.

 

I had someone (Smashmonkey) on PTS sit and wait for me to finish my bubble the other day.

>>>> He sat and actually WAITED for me.. <<<<

"Hello? BW? Please set aside one more in the rez zone.. yea.. 10 seconds from now. TY"

Edited March 15, 2013 by dscount

[Rincewend]

OMG - Thzt is funny! Completely true, sad and funny at the same time.

 

I had someone (Smashmonkey) on PTS sit and wait for me to finish my bubble the other day.

>>>> He sat and actually WAITED for me.. <<<<

"Hello? BW? Please set aside one more in the rez zone.. yea.. 10 seconds from now. TY"

 

I had one go threw his emotes waiting for me. As PVP is objective based it's better not to use this abilty and speed up your return time.

 

I can see this being the new QQ ability from Smashers "BW do something about the bubble I had to wait 10s to kill this sorc, this is worse than the 4s stun I used to get from bubble stun."

Edited March 15, 2013 by Rincewend

[tsedav]

I had someone /say "10... 9... 8,,, 7,,,,".

[TherealDUKE]

To the OP

 

50 pvp hurts. Bad. Its not a forgiving class. If your spending more than 3 GCD in the same spot your going to be in trouble.Your gear has to be right. You have to hit your instants while your running to the next place your gonna cast. You can 1v1 if you don't play by their rules. But the best strategy is to let someone else get hit. Smashers like absurd hits. Don't be in a group.

 

I think we are one of the hardest AC's to play, but also the most fun.

 

War zones are not the only place to pvp. Group open world pvp is where our niche really is.

[dscount]

I had someone /say "10... 9... 8,,, 7,,,,".

 

Yup.. not even in LIVE yet and we are already the laughing stock... (I mean more than before 2.0 and after 1.2)

 

I still think we need an INVISO for 8 sec after the bubble is done or more Force Speed with root/cc break built into.

[biowareftw]

Yes Sorc's are the only class in the game with one "best spec in rated's", which also happens to be the most stupidly OP thing I have ever seen in a game (team bubble stun). Poor sorcs only get a freakin iceblock that makes them IMMUNE TO FOCUS FIRE DMG next patch. How will they ever cope! Oh yeah they got the burst/offhealing they wanted with lightning/TK, but that isn't enough.

 

Let's see what other classes are best at ranked with only one spec atm.

 

Sin/shadow. Hybrid tank. They sit at a node and defend it. FUN!

 

Merc/commando. Not invited (everyone runs sorc/op healers), but it is heal or go home and they are WAY behind sorc/sage/op/scoundrel.

 

Scoundrel/op. Heal or go home.

 

Sniper/gunslinger. Lethality > everything atm.

 

Marauder/sent. You bring one. Carnage/combat for group sprint. All other specs need not apply. Rage/focus is garbage in ranked as a marauder/sent compared to a jug/guardian.

 

Pt/vanguard. Pyro PT or go home.

 

Guardian/jug. This is the only freakin class in the game that is the best at two things. Guarding healers/huttball carrier, and rage/focus (smash since you people never play more then one class, but complain about it).

 

Amazing how all classes have one viable pvp spec except for one huh? Sorry if I shattered the reality which you have created for yourselves. Enjoy the pity party!

 

We need more threads on how sorcerers are soooooo weak and bad. Cus you know, there is ONE IN EVERY SINGLE RANKED MATCH ROFL. You are never going to get an MMO where every tree is good for pvp. It doesn't happen. If they are the best or share the best slot at one thing? That is all you can ask for.

[Lalainnia]

Imo atm sorcs have 2 specs that can go into rateds and thats really just 2 specs for healing the bubble pooper and full heals (which is kinda stupid). Dps sorcs really have no place in rateds due to the fact that they die faster then any class when focused.

 

In 2.0 the bubble pooper spec is gone while the full healing tree got a massive buff and is the best healing ( imo) out of the 3 healing ACs. Both dps trees got buffed, but really cant make it into a rated wz, Lighting sorcs are going to be crazy in normal warzones and maybe if a team wouldnt mind dishing out extra heals somewhere they could take a lighting sorc for rateds (meh maybe alot of better choices). From the changes to Madness it looks like that was suppoed to be the spec that lives longer but in fact with the changes to ever other class( specifically the hard hitters (maras/powertechs/snipers/jugguernauts) sorcs die fast period, unless its a healer.

 

The new move force barrier which makes you invunerable to damage but keeps u in place also while acting as a second cc breaker is crazy for healing sorcs but kinda falls short for dps sorcs. I feel like somewhere high up in both dps trees they add a bonus to force barrier like something that allows sorcs to take 50% less damage for x amount of secs after force barrier ends. they should also bring back the insta whirlwind for sorcs only was to easy for assassin hybrids that would sap cap insta whirlwind unless they moved it higher up in the tree.

 

Madness perodic dot crits should give back more hp with the parasite talent and this could be seen somewhat as a defensive passive ability something like 25-30% of the dot damage that crit back as hp.

 

For Lighting its actually a glass cannon I just feel like force barrier should be on a short cooldown for specifically this spec and thats what special like a 1min 20sec cc or 2mins and it can be reduced from damaging abilites by 3 secs every 3 secs.

 

Overall sorcerers as a class are lacking in terms of defensive cds for the dps tress otherwise they're great.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Lalainnia

[TwitchWINs]

The new move force barrier which makes you invunerable to damage but keeps u in place also while acting as a second cc breaker is crazy for healing sorcs but kinda falls short for dps sorcs.

 

I don't see how this falls short for dps sorcs, Also i don't think dps specs for sorcs are going to be falling short in pvp for quite a while as there are 3 specs in particular which are already viable enough to put out either good sustain damage, high burst or a combination of both. I prefer playing full lightning as it has the highest burst potential in the game at the moment(12-15k combos) which makes hard swaps on targets in RWZs the easiest.

[Lalainnia]

I don't see how this falls short for dps sorcs, Also i don't think dps specs for sorcs are going to be falling short in pvp for quite a while as there are 3 specs in particular which are already viable enough to put out either good sustain damage, high burst or a combination of both. I prefer playing full lightning as it has the highest burst potential in the game at the moment(12-15k combos) which makes hard swaps on targets in RWZs the easiest.

 

O Ik the burst is crazy just felt like they were to squishy and i think the barrier is on a 2min and 30sec cd for lighting sorcs? was just saying for rated they're going to get targeted pretty fast and really don't have the means to survive outside of the barrier and maybe if u count a healer and guard jumping to peel or keep em up,but even then they drop fast. Really just felt as tho they needed an actually clicky that did something around the lines of u take x less damage for y secs. Then again I really don't know if that would make cause them to get an unwarranted nerf.

 

But ya glass cannons are what they are now and ur right the burst potential is pretty much the highest in the game and some of it cant be migatied.

[TwitchWINs]

yes we are the squishiest class in the game but now with defensive cds like the one we have immunity for 10sec at a time, It doesn't matter if it has a long cooldown. If your a competent sorcerer, RWZ is not a single player thing its about the team and how every1 works together. What im getting at is that you shouldn't need to use ur force bubble every 30-60s if your know ur class and your team is good.

[warstory]

Anyone here play on Pts and get interrupted yet? From what I seen no one even tried to shutdown my tk sage or lightning sorc. I shutdown 2 in matches when I used my juggernuant. So from my experience the spec can be shut completely down still.

 

I got destroyed by a eng sniper and marksmen in duels and wz matches anyone beat one solo yet? (Not talking about baddies)

Edited March 15, 2013 by warstory

[biowareftw]

Anyone here play on Pts and get interrupted yet? From what I seen no one even tried to shutdown my tk sage or lightning sorc. I shutdown 2 in matches when I used my juggernuant. So from my experience the spec can be shut completely down still.

 

I got destroyed by a eng sniper and marksmen in duels and wz matches anyone beat one solo yet? (Not talking about baddies)

 

Kind of like a sniper can shut down a melee huh? Or a stealth can shut down a sniper. You people act as if the sorc/sage is unique in having counters to dps specs. Everyone has a counter 1 v 1 except a tank hybrid shadow/sin and they are complaining about the tank changes.

 

Also a duel vs a MM sniper is flawed from the start. Why? You can LOS/heal in a WZ, run to a different level and not be in LOS. Knock them off a ledge. I can give a very good duel to a sniper with all cooldowns on a marauder/sent. It doesn't mean that the class doesn't counter me hard in a WZ.

 

I pointed out that everyone in this game atm (cept one class) only has one good ranked spec a few posts back. In 2.0 that may change a bit. Sorc/sage looks like they might have 2. Asking for more and thinking that the sorc/sage is the only class where all 3 specs aren't viable just makes the whole class playerbase look like idiots.

 

Class respecs are free. Lightning/TK is going to be VERY VIABLE for leading dps in pugstomping/solo queuing. As ranked? You will probably be heals, just like mercs, scoundrels will be heals. Marauder/sents will be pigeonholed into carnage/rage and on and on and on. If you are exceptional in a non cookie cutter ranked spec? You will always be viable as dps. It just makes it a little harder on the team not playing in the penciled in, scoundrel healer, sorc healer, carnage marauder, shadow tank (guard node), jug (guard healers). 3 spots are up for grabs in 2.0, just like they are now. Nothing has changed except maybe PT, can be as good a healer guarder in non huttball (jug is best ball carrier).

Edited March 15, 2013 by biowareftw

[Cretinus]

Kind of like a sniper can shut down a melee huh? Or a stealth can shut down a sniper. You people act as if the sorc/sage is unique in having counters to dps specs. Everyone has a counter 1 v 1 except a tank hybrid shadow/sin and they are complaining about the tank changes.

 

Also a duel vs a MM sniper is flawed from the start. Why? You can LOS/heal in a WZ, run to a different level and not be in LOS. Knock them off a ledge. I can give a very good duel to a sniper with all cooldowns on a marauder/sent. It doesn't mean that the class doesn't counter me hard in a WZ.

 

I pointed out that everyone in this game atm (cept one class) only has one good ranked spec a few posts back. In 2.0 that may change a bit. Sorc/sage looks like they might have 2. Asking for more and thinking that the sorc/sage is the only class where all 3 specs aren't viable just makes the whole class playerbase look like idiots.

 

Class respecs are free. Lightning/TK is going to be VERY VIABLE for leading dps in pugstomping/solo queuing. As ranked? You will probably be heals, just like mercs, scoundrels will be heals. Marauder/sents will be pigeonholed into carnage/rage and on and on and on. If you are exceptional in a non cookie cutter ranked spec? You will always be viable as dps. It just makes it a little harder on the team not playing in the penciled in, scoundrel healer, sorc healer, carnage marauder, shadow tank (guard node), jug (guard healers). 3 spots are up for grabs in 2.0, just like they are now. Nothing has changed except maybe PT, can be as good a healer guarder in non huttball (jug is best ball carrier).

 

If what you're talking about is the PTS, why do you post this here? "Sorcs will be this, sorcs will be that" I don't care. All this will change a couple of times before it goes live. The topics in this forum are about the live servers and there, DPS sorcerers are ridiculous at the moment. Ridiculous burst paired with halfways decent kiting tools means we go WZs not to make dmg, but only to run around and kite without any particular purpose other than not to get killed. That's how it is at the moment and that's what needs fixing. The momentary situation on the PTS doesn't help people playing WZs on the live servers.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Cretinus

[biowareftw]

If what you're talking about is the PTS, why do you post this here? "Sorcs will be this, sorcs will be that" I don't care. All this will change a couple of times before it goes live. The topics in this forum are about the live servers and there, DPS sorcerers are ridiculous at the moment. Ridiculous burst paired with halfways decent kiting tools means we go WZs not to make dmg, but only to run around and kite without any particular purpose other than not to get killed. That's how it is at the moment and that's what needs fixing. The momentary situation on the PTS doesn't help people playing WZs on the live servers.

 

On the test center they are still one of the two healers brought to ranked. As far as DPS, lightning can often lead dps in pugs. Respeccing is free.

 

If you want to ONLY be dps, here is an idea...

 

How about rolling a pure dps class. Oh yeah, about that...Sent/marauders are pigeonholed into ONE SPEC as a pure freakin dps class in ranked. I mean seriously, you people are a JOKE. I swear the mage class rolls cloth just for a built in excuse now days in MMO's.

 

You are not the first kill target in 2.0. A pyro PT is. You aren't the worst kiting ranged class. You are between merc and sniper (depending on spec).

 

The sorc/sage isn't a pure dps class. It is the ONLY class that can offheal. Op/scoundrel self kites from their kill target, and can't restealth when they heal someone. Merc/commando's just blow as dps, so why bother offhealing or even speccing dps in WZ. Add to that bubbles are an instant heal. There is no offensive dispel in this game (I imagine you would QQ even harder if you played WoW where there is one).

 

There are NO VALID COMPLAINTS that sorc/sage has. None. Zero. You are viable as raid healing/dps. You are viable as pug dps. You are viable as a ranked healer. Respeccing is free. End of story. Period. Do not pass go. Stop making these stupid threads and taking up half the pts forum and pvp forum with sorc/sage pity parties (sages seem to be more stable, sorry that they get a bad name from sorcs).

Edited March 15, 2013 by biowareftw

[Lelvannia]

You are not the first kill target in 2.0. A pyro PT is. .

 

LOL. No, it's not. People avoid them because they don't want to end up being served extra crispy. Sage? Z**** FREE KILL HERE MUST GET HIM BEFORE MY TEAMMATE DOES!!!

[biowareftw]

LOL. No, it's not. People avoid them because they don't want to end up being served extra crispy. Sage? Z**** FREE KILL HERE MUST GET HIM BEFORE MY TEAMMATE DOES!!!

 

One of the silliest posts I have ever read. Sage/sorc can go immune which you shouldn't need in every fight because you SHOULD be standing at max range.

 

The PT is standing within 10 yards to do good dps and to stun/cc. The PT can't go immune to jack. Once their def cooldown is gone? They are history.

 

Add to that they can aoe taunt, which always makes them a higher priority target.

 

Sage/sorc dps is not a bad 1 v 1 class at all. There are far worse ones in the game. If you are losing 1 v 1's to every spec? You are simply not as good at the class as you think you are.

[Lelvannia]

The PT is standing within 10 yards to do good dps and to stun/cc. The PT can't go immune to jack. Once their def cooldown is gone? They are history.

 

the point is moot, because whoever they're fighting is history even faster. And how many classes can keep a PT beyond 10 meters?

[foxmob]

LOL. No, it's not. People avoid them because they don't want to end up being served extra crispy. Sage? Z**** FREE KILL HERE MUST GET HIM BEFORE MY TEAMMATE DOES!!!

 

to be honest, I kill sages for two reasons: healer (dur) and bubbler (grr). they're very easy to identify. the healer casts heals and is stationary. the bubble targets his own teammates and doesn't cast anything (it's an instant).

 

the perception that ppl go after them simply cuz they're easy kills is somewhat mistaken. If I have to fight a tank and dps sorc or a dps sorc and another dps, of course I'm going to try to burst down the sorc first. especially if he's lightning. that's just common sense: eliminate the enemy you think you can burst down quickest.

 

but if there's a sorc tossing lightning in the back of a fight? dude. there are far more important priorities. even in pug wz's, I don't see a lot of ppl going at the madness dude or even the lightning who isn't bubbling.

[biowareftw]

the point is moot, because whoever they're fighting is history even faster. And how many classes can keep a PT beyond 10 meters?

 

The fact you think a PT has no counter shows how far off base you are. MM snipers kill them without losing more then half their health, and if they open up on them at range they will lose damn near NO health. Marauders annihilate them with ease in 2 out of 3 specs. Sins/shadow kick their head in. A sage/sorc who knows how to LOS can kill them. A scoundrel/op can rip them apart in seconds when their cooldown is over and they can vanish when it's up.

 

The only thing OP about a Pyro PT is that average players can do extremely well on one. Seeing that you are having a problem on a slightly harder class (but nowhere near as hard to play as other ac's, which includes shadow). might I suggest you play one?

[FodderofCannon]

Dps sorcs are weak. Everyone knows it.

 

BW wants Sorcs to be healers.

 

/thread

[MotorCityMan]

Sage/sorc dps is not a bad 1 v 1 class at all. There are far worse ones in the game. If you are losing 1 v 1's to every spec? You are simply not as good at the class as you think you are.

 

 

The 'ole win the argument by trolling them with L2P.

That silliness aside, I don't think Bioware has figured out the impact that LOS breaks, pushbacks, stuns, and dmg interrupts has on a casting class vs an insta-cast class. The insta cast class always gets a tempo advantage and the rest is just a formality.