Scripts in PVP

[Arlanon]

What neither of us knows, and it would be very nice to hear more from BW, is how to they measure their success.

 

Warhammer: Age of Reckoning had their "Banhammer" page with a bunch of banned players on it.

 

If this really was the same dev team why don't we have that? It was a great PR tool.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Arlanon

[MariaD]

If this really was the same dev team why don't we have that? It was a great PR tool.

 

It's a big thing with this crew not to call out players or guilds. It's against ToS here.

[Arlanon]

It's a big thing with this crew not to call out players or guilds. It's against ToS here.

 

well then i'm against the tos here

 

if i ran an mmo i would have public executions where i would log onto the character and make them say stuff about how they love buttsecks before i put them into some sort of compression chamber

 

my players would love me

Edited March 10, 2013 by Arlanon

[Crawelc]

Thank you for these details. I quoted the parts I thought relevant and factual (horrible rotations, bad decisions), so it was a deliberate choice. A good player disliked the script as it was, I thought.

 

People claim programming this or that is easy, then "this or that" turns out to be vaporware. I do not know if the claim the script could be modified in that way, easily, is true or not. Because it's very easy to underestimate how hard programming something would be.

 

Anyway, that script does not seem to do those things from the original post:

 

 

I am looking forward to learning more.

 

The script from the op was a modified version as well. I have never even been to the website for any of these programs. I have no idea how they work really. I have played in mmo's what I like to think is competitively since runscape beta/everquest and I have never even heard of programs like these. Maybe that is part of the reason I am so severly outraged now that I have found out how easy they are to use.

 

Edit: As I have said before the 600k with only using positioning was not an example of how best to use the program. It was seeing the extreme it could be taken to.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Crawelc

[KillaDeuce]

I support the OP, but am surprised this thread is still. Maybe a good sign that DEVs / MODs are discussing it. Hopefully it gets a response. It is Needed.

[Crawelc]

I support the OP, but am surprised this thread is still. Maybe a good sign that DEVs / MODs are discussing it. Hopefully it gets a response. It is Needed.

 

I have gone out of my way to make sure this thread stays withing the TOS and the new posting guidlines set out by Mr. Musco. Any posts here that anyone feels step outside those guidlines I would encourage you to report including any of my own.

[Crawelc]

Funny thought I just had. This is the true PTW in SWtoR. After all the concerns people had about FTP.

[Mr_Elotes]

Thread from Feb 2012 that has a DEV response to this subject matter. The OP got an email from customer service (posted in the first post of the thread, describes their take on razer and logitech products) and started the thread. I think what most are talking about is covered in the DEV response.

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=316728

[Crawelc]

Thread from Feb 2012 that has a DEV response to this subject matter. The OP got an email from customer service (posted in the first post of the thread, describes their take on razer and logitech products) and started the thread. I think what most are talking about is covered in the DEV response.

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=316728

 

I think you should reread the op, no one is talking about macros. In fact based on your post reread the whole thread please. Or at least the last 5 pages.

[Caeliux]

Well here is a post about from a customer service forum rep some while ago about questions about macros and such,

Greetings everyone,

 

When talking about anything macro related we would like to provide the following guidelines:

No automation

No delays or looped commands in macros

It is okay to bind a macro that performs abilities after each other as long as it still requires the user to press the button on the physical keyboard each time a new action is performed

These rules apply regardless of which peripheral you are using.

 

Hope this clears it up a bit, but if you have further questions regarding the topic please get back to us!

 

Beruthien| BioWare Customer Service – Forum Support

 

There is the rules, kinda odd they can't comment how the issue of scripts are being taken care of.

 

Don't they take it serious?

[cashogy_reborn]

i dont think they do. i dont think there is a script that takes over complete control of your character (movement, abilities, etc). you still have to move your toon around, the script just handles the button pressing. the difference between a skilled player and the computer controlled script would be negligible imo.

 

would something like this make bad players into above-average players? sure

would it make a skilled player into an unkillable god? highly doubt it.

 

its not like the skill cap in this game is exceptionally high.

[LenrocNewDawn]

. Humans are complex critters.

 

Condescending remarks like the one above could make a polite debate transform into a **** fling. But I'll let this one slide.

Every situation were one DPSes or heals unmolested would benefit from a script. Most of 1vs1 situations would benefit from a script. All executions that are dependable on procs (one or more) could benefit from a script. Beside the shorter reaction time there is another huge benefit that seems like nobody accounts for, and that such automation frees human brain resources. Somebody already stated that the benefit from using such a program is greater for a skilled player then for an unskilled one. I'm behind that.

Well I've made my position clear enough and the toddlers wants to drag me in the park so... have fun playing the game .

 

Lenroc out!!!

[MariaD]

Every situation were one DPSes or heals unmolested would benefit from a script. Most of 1vs1 situations would benefit from a script. All executions that are dependable on procs (one or more) could benefit from a script.

WoW API allows some macros for procs, at least, and a lot of raiders use those. Thank you for the list of examples. It reminded me of a story I wrote about my trooper. He met a resistance cell on Balmorra, some twi'lek teens sabotaging the Empire through slicing. Every meeting, before the revolutionary work, they played a PvP space game with alternating rounds. They modified their ships with scripts for a round, then fought for a round. In the next scripting round, they exchanged all their scripts (within teams). They also used the huge library of past scripts, shared by the whole group, and updated after each game.

 

I think some servers for FPS games work pretty much like this? I can't imagine scripts doing well in a large MMO though. But I like what WoW does with macros and open API.

Edited March 10, 2013 by MariaD

[Crawelc]

WoW API allows some macros for procs, at least, and a lot of raiders use those. Thank you for the list of examples. It reminded me of a story I wrote about my trooper. He met a resistance cell on Balmorra, some twi'lek teens sabotaging the Empire through slicing. Every meeting, before the revolutionary work, they played a PvP space game with alternating rounds. They modified their ships with scripts for a round, then fought for a round. In the next scripting round, they exchanged all their scripts (within teams). They also used the huge library of past scripts, shared by the whole group, and updated after each game.

 

I think some servers for FPS games work pretty much like this? I can't imagine scripts doing well in a large MMO though. But I like what WoW does with macros and open API.

 

Thanks for the story Maria, ill read that one to my son at bedtime tonight.

[Crawelc]

I like the open API as well and wish this game would implement a limited version of it, but i dont think the macros you can use in WoW are <if proc then cast x, if no proc cast y

[BambulaGTS]

Lol I use Nostromo keypad + naga both allowing scripts but I definitely won't use scripts FOR ROTATIONS cause it is just so dumb, considering characters in this game have so powerfull defensive cooldowns which can mitigate nearly all damage from my scripted rotation.

 

So i launched my super duper script and target just pressed 1 button and ruined my day

[MariaD]

I like the open API as well and wish this game would implement a limited version of it, but i dont think the macros you can use in WoW are <if proc then cast x, if no proc cast y

 

The rule in WoW is: one in-game action = one button push or one click or one mouse-over. It does not say they must be DIFFERENT buttons or clicks on different icons. You can write a conditional macro or an addon that will go like... "When you click 1, IF proc A, cast X, IF proc B, cast Y, IF procs C AND D, cast Z". You can then keep clicking 1. I don't remember if conditional targeting is allowed, for example, for healers "When you click 2, IF a group member is under x%, target and cast Instant Heal" - but I think the legal addon HealBot has something like that configured.

Edited March 11, 2013 by MariaD

[Crawelc]

Well that is interesting. I only used base addons when I played wow, some ui and cast bar modifiers and then dbm of course. I was both happy and sad to see swtor not support addons. Happy because I feel some of them cheese up the game, but sad because there are some good utility ones as well as the cheeseballs

[Crawelc]

Hello monday afternoon. Sure could use a dev response here.

[Arlanon]

Hello monday afternoon. Sure could use a dev response here.

 

I'll respond on their behalf:

 

L2P

[Crawelc]

I'll respond on their behalf:

 

Rude

/5char

[Arlanon]

Rude

/5char

 

hamburgers

(10 char)

[DharmaPolice]

How many times have you died in a fight when only 1 button press away from winning?

I can certainly imagine a script helping a player with certain tasks, the issue is what level of control you'd give to a program without it causing an issue elsewhere in your play. Some abilities don't affect the global cool down and don't consume resources - they would work well. But most abilities aren't like that, and something independently carrying out commands doesn't sound like it's the overwhelming advantage the OP (and others) are making out.

 

Imagine a second person controlling your character with you. It'd have advantages, certainly - there's lots of things I miss in the middle of fights (e.g. to activate an AOE taunt). But even if the second person had vastly superior reactions to mine, and we had a strict agreement about what he should do it's easy to picture how we'd get in each others way - I'd like to switch targets to prevent a cap in voidstar, he'd like to finish off the person I'm fighting as their health is below a certain %.

 

Moreover, a lot of decisions aren't easy to reduce to simple rules. One thing I often find happen is I die before I have a chance to apply a medpac. Computer level reflexes would be great there, except I'm not sure what rule there should be to decide when to apply it.. It's certainly not when health drops below a certain % because there are times I know healers have got my back and other cases where it's pointless because I know that I'll be killed in 2 seconds anyway. So something as simple as an "auto medpac" isn't without problems - you can imagine how more complex decisions would be really difficult to script.

 

Again - I think scripts certainly have some scope for use in PVP, but some of the claims being made here sound dubious at best. Can you make a script that gives you the optimal rotation. Sure - you could probably break all records on the Ops dummy using such a thing (if you had a good connection). But PVP is much more than that.

Edited March 11, 2013 by DharmaPolice

[Rolander]

why would anyone get mad that this was brought up?

[Crawelc]

I agree with you that pvp is more than can be scripted to a certain extent. But I think you are underestimating the extent to which scripts can be utilized. Especially well written ones.