Quitting in middle of WZ and consequences

[Jabrunn]

I do not believe there should be a penalty for quitting a warzone.

First, Bioware must adopt a ZERO tolerance policy for cheaters/hackers. It completely ruins the experience for other players, especially in pvp warzones. Until Bioware does this, there shouldn't even be a discussion on penalizing players for leaving warzones early in my opinion.

 

Second, the queing system for SWTOR pvp needs to be revamped. It too often pits pug groups of undergeared players against premades in full WH/EWH gear. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for an instant win in every wz. I just want to be able to comptete. After all, this is a game and a game is meant to be enjoyed. I DON'T enjoy being burned down in a matter of seconds with every encounter in the wz (even though I'm in full WH/EWH). PVP should be enjoyed, not endured.

 

I know many people believe there should be penalties for leaving a wz and many excellent points have been made to support that argument. However, until the above mentioned items have been seriously addressed by Bioware, I do not believe a penalty should be implemented.

[Drudenfusz]

From the expirience on my server I have to say that I am glad that people leave my team, because mostly only losers do that and often enough they get replaced with players who actually can help to still win the game. So, let the losers leave without penalty, helps me to win those games (they already have an penalty, they have to queue anew and get not commentations for the game they left).

[Jabrunn]

I don't think that most people leave a warzone because they are losing. The queue time is to long for that to be an effective strategy. Instead, I think they leave because they see the team is exhibiting zero teamwork...and they know they aren't going to have any fun.

 

I agree. I don't leave warzones because my team is losing. That's a part of the game. I leave when I know there isn't a chance of even competing. That isn't fun. As I said before, PVP should be enjoyed, not endured.

[Defecter]

When the WZ starts and I see that my team is composed of 4-5 level 10-19 players, I quit. As a healer (alt I'm lvling atm), I just can't stand healing lowbies that don't have any defensive cooldowns of their own and bring virtually nothing of use to a WZ. I routinely see lowbies like that drop from 100% to the danger zone before I can even get a single cast-time heal off. It's just not worth the hassle.

 

I also quit a WZ when people are retarded. A few examples;

 

- I, as a healer, am somehow solo-guarding a capture point instead of helping our team survive. On top of that, nobody comes when I call incoming.

- When the entire team in Voidstar decides to only defend the left door while even non-stealth enemies are heading to the right (happens more often then I held possible).

- When the Ancient Hypergate match starts and more than half of the team runs to capture the first gate instead of just the sorcerer plus maybe a healer if you are facing a semi-smart opposing PUG team.

 

And it's not like I don't stick with losing battles. I don't mind losing. As long as it isn't a loss infested with stupidity. Hell, I don't even expect a very high win:loss ratio when I'm pugging stuff on either my lowbie alts or my 50 toons. But I do expect a modicum of common sense. And that goes doubly so when I play the extremely thankless job of a healer in PvP. Good god, before I played a healer in this game, I never knew how utterly thankless it feels being a healer in a pug.

 

So yeah, if we're losing because people are simply running around being complete idjits, I will quit. If we're losing simply because the opposing team is better, I can thouroughly enjoy the match regardless of the outcome.

 

That all being said, it's usually perfectly clear what kind of team your on from the first 1-2 minutes into a game. So, I barely ever quit when I'm already halfway through a match.

 

People can call me a quitter all they want, but I simply don't care. I won't let idiots waste my time in this game which I want to enjoy. Luckily the matches I finish, far outweigh the amount of matches I quit.

[Jabrunn]

The only thing that irks me is when people quit and the result is still reasonably in doubt.

I mean, I quit the occasional warzone after it starts, but typically not because we started losing initially.

 

I'll stick around until I am annoyed by my teammates stupidity, or I just get zerged so hard and often (maybe because I'm of only two people on the team doing DPS worth a crap) that I just have enough of it.

I don't mind hard fought defeats. You can learn from those on a personal level.

There's nothing to be learned from getting zerged/stunned/smashed over and over though.

 

I can't agree with you more. There is nothing fun about being smashed over and over again in a wz. There's nothing to be learned there.

[Jabrunn]

And what about people who quit WZ's because of things happening in real-life i.e. children, people knocking at the door, phone ringing etc etc. Punish those people for that? Wow...just....wow......

 

That's another great reason why there should not be a penalty. Should a player have to answer questions as to why they left a wz after they quit in order to avoid the penalty? Should the mother or father be penalized for leaving to attend to a sick child or to take an emergency phone call? There is no one-size-fits-all solution to this.

 

Penalizing people for leaving a wz early for attending to real-life issues may only stop people from pvp'ing and possibly cause some to stop playing the game completely. I don't think, at this point, Bioware can afford that.

[Jabrunn]

YES there must be stiffer penalties though i have seen incoming players turn the whole thing around and into a win. I will personally not leave no matter what, fight on till the bitter end and its not like you aren't going to get anything as the rewards, however small, can still be used to get better gear until youre full elite and full holding entitlement.

 

Its bad form indeed............people should be more about enjoying the pvp environment, its not only about winning and i for one enjoy it and have a good laff doing so too

 

I see your point and you are free to stick around in any warzone, no matter what the outcome. However, where is the fun in being smashed to oblivion within seconds each and every time you and/or teammates attempt to capture an objective? That may be fun for you and that's fine, but it's not fun to me nor is it fun to some others. Everyone is different.

 

What if the other team is using hacks/cheats to dominate the play? Should I still be penalized for quitting a match I have no chance of competing in (unless I cheat myself)?

 

I see your point and definitely understand your frustration as I have been on the losing end of people leaving a wz too early. I simply think there are too many variables that need to be addressed before Bioware attempts to penalize players for leaving early. Besides, the punishment is built in. You're missing out on comms and valor when you quit early.

[mrekxxx]

That's another great reason why there should not be a penalty. Should a player have to answer questions as to why they left a wz after they quit in order to avoid the penalty? Should the mother or father be penalized for leaving to attend to a sick child or to take an emergency phone call? There is no one-size-fits-all solution to this.

 

Penalizing people for leaving a wz early for attending to real-life issues may only stop people from pvp'ing and possibly cause some to stop playing the game completely. I don't think, at this point, Bioware can afford that.

 

like ...

[Virilot]

I would opt for some posite incentives (rewards) instead of negative ones (punishment), so my suggestion would be to reward the team that suffers from quitters with one medal per quitter and give the replacing players one medal for free (doing those 1-2minutes wz isnt rewarding as it is). My reasons for this are:

 

1. Not all quitters quit on purpose, e.g. yesterday from the 8 wzs i played, two times i crashed to desktop and one i was send back to the fleet after one minute (the match was not finished). My Net is fine (swtor only uses up to 15% of my bandwith and its pretty stable) so i blame biowares programing/servers. For me it was frustrating enough to requeue and wait again to play. If i would be punished for someone elses fault on top of that would not add any good imho.

 

2. The people suffering from this would get a little bonus makeing up for the lower chances winning the map/getting comms/wins. Maybe it could build a more "we fight against the odds" mentality (something a lot of players in this game are lacking imo).

 

3. I really prefeer someone whos not satisified with the matchup/team to leave the team instead of being flamed/qqed the whole match, makeing opschat something i ignore.

 

4. For us humans positve incentives are more persistent and have a stronger impact on changeing behaviour than negative ones and games are for fun after all.

[Jabrunn]

I would opt for some posite incentives (rewards) instead of negative ones (punishment), so my suggestion would be to reward the team that suffers from quitters with one medal per quitter and give the replacing players one medal for free (doing those 1-2minutes wz isnt rewarding as it is). My reasons for this are:

 

1. Not all quitters quit on purpose, e.g. yesterday from the 8 wzs i played, two times i crashed to desktop and one i was send back to the fleet after one minute (the match was not finished). My Net is fine (swtor only uses up to 15% of my bandwith and its pretty stable) so i blame biowares programing/servers. For me it was frustrating enough to requeue and wait again to play. If i would be punished for someone elses fault on top of that would not add any good imho.

 

2. The people suffering from this would get a little bonus makeing up for the lower chances winning the map/getting comms/wins. Maybe it could build a more "we fight against the odds" mentality (something a lot of players in this game are lacking imo).

 

3. I really prefeer someone whos not satisified with the matchup/team to leave the team instead of being flamed/qqed the whole match, makeing opschat something i ignore.

 

4. For us humans positve incentives are more persistent and have a stronger impact on changeing behaviour than negative ones and games are for fun after all.

 

 

I forgot about disconnects and crashing to desktop. I agree. Excellent points. There are just too many variables involved for Bioware to punish people who leave warzones early. Besides, there's no way for Bioware to know exactly why a person left the wz early.

[sumuji]

People leave when the first encounter works against them as anyone that plays WZ can attest so I doubt it's people giving the team a chance and deciding it's hopeless. There prob are exceptions but I feel most are just simple sore losers or people worried about their win/loss numbers. Exactly the reason you're penalized in other games for leaving and why this game needs that feature as well.

 

When they first added the group finder you could que for both WZ and PvE and if PvE popped while in a WZ you were whisked out of there. Bioware obviously realized this was not a good thing and now a WZ takes you out of the finder so that should tell you they are aware of players leaving a WZ is a bad thing. They even penalize people who drop out of groups after using the finder with a cooldown timer before requeing so why something has never made it to WZ I haven't a clue.

[yauhen_pt]

They even penalize people who drop out of groups after using the finder with a cooldown timer before requeing so why something has never made it to WZ I haven't a clue.

 

May b u have to hear other ppl.. It cam give u the clue.

[Blockk]

I undestand some thought is being put into punishment for quitters

 

60 Min standown and Negative Comms sounds fair

 

if your teams weak or your getting smashed by smashers, harden up, take up the challenge, even though you know its a loss

[Jabrunn]

People leave when the first encounter works against them as anyone that plays WZ can attest so I doubt it's people giving the team a chance and deciding it's hopeless. There prob are exceptions but I feel most are just simple sore losers or people worried about their win/loss numbers. Exactly the reason you're penalized in other games for leaving and why this game needs that feature as well.

 

When they first added the group finder you could que for both WZ and PvE and if PvE popped while in a WZ you were whisked out of there. Bioware obviously realized this was not a good thing and now a WZ takes you out of the finder so that should tell you they are aware of players leaving a WZ is a bad thing. They even penalize people who drop out of groups after using the finder with a cooldown timer before requeing so why something has never made it to WZ I haven't a clue.

 

You can't lump everyone into the same category. I don't leave if the first encounter works against me. If after a while it becomes apparent that I will not even be able to compete, I may leave. This isn't life and death here. It is a game. If you choose to stay in warzones where you have no chance of competing then that's fine, it's your choice. If it's one of those warzones where the entire imp team may have 1 or 2 deaths total, then I don't think my leaving is going to make much of a difference anyway. I think it should remain my choice, penalty free. Besides, I wonder how many people who support punishment would be the first to complain about the punishment if you got disconnected (through no fault of your own) in the middle of a warzone? Just curious.

[Jabrunn]

I undestand some thought is being put into punishment for quitters

 

60 Min standown and Negative Comms sounds fair

 

if your teams weak or your getting smashed by smashers, harden up, take up the challenge, even though you know its a loss

 

Again, it's a game. A game is meant to be fun. Where is the fun in being smashed repeatedly? This isn't about me being soft, cowardly, stupid, ignorant, incompetent, undergeared, etc... You just said you may know it's a loss. So, if you know it's a loss and there's no chance of winning, why should I be punished for leaving early? If there's no chance to win, then my leaving doesn't hurt you anyway. I'm already missing out on the valor and wz comms just for leaving, isn't that enough?

[kjng]

warzone quitters should have a 2 hour debuff. if the player decides to queue again with the debuff, he will be placed on top of the queue and cannot queue as a group, but can only join on-going warzones and not new warzones until the debuff wears off or if there arent any on-going wz with empty spots available.

 

so if a player quits a warzone, he will most likely end up in an on-going warzone him/herself. hopefully the same one he quit in the first place...

[Brimmer]

Things would get much worse if there were consequences for leaving a warzone.

 

If people got punished for leaving this world only add to the issue. It would promote stacked premades groups filled with all the FOTM classes. Or they might stay and help the enemy win so the match ended sooner; such as in huttball passing the ball to the enemy or something annoying like that.

 

Over all give them a reason to stay and we won't see as many quitters.

 

_____________________________________

 

Possible fixes:

 

1.) Weekly quest being 9 wins or 18 matches played

2.) Ability to pick which warzone you queue for

3.) separate queues for premades and solos

4.) balance the classes

5.) +5% valor buff for your next warzone, after finishing a warzone. Leaving a warzone removes the buff.

6.) get rid of ranked gear

7.) block the use of nades , stims, and medkits use in warzones

8.) remove the ability to jump and use run buffs such as force speed while carrying the huttball.

[PanVandemar]

Funny thing that these quiters are so often the reason, why their team is losing. There are arguments, that are absolutely false. The truth is that quiters are what is absolutely ruining the pvp here. Most of these players leave at the begining when enemy takes 2 from 3 towers they leave, so the rest mostly loses because it takes some time before replacement comes. These quiters say here, that the team is ruining their fun - so they leave to ruin the Wz for all others ? 10 minute penalty is absolutely needed. Arguments that you must answer telephone call and you get 10 minutes penalty to join WZ bothers you ? Are you playing in work at a call centre or what ? Undergeared players are on both sides. Its just bad luck if you have more of them. Still, you were undergeared once before as well. I believe that by this penalty the warzones would be so much better.

[Gankstah]

You can make the penalty as stiff as losing 10 valor levels and it won't make any difference. You can even REMOVE THE ABILITY TO QUIT WZs and it will still make no difference.

 

PvP penalties have never produced positive results.

 

Never.

 

In any game.

 

Ever.

[PanVandemar]

That's another great reason why there should not be a penalty. Should a player have to answer questions as to why they left a wz after they quit in order to avoid the penalty? Should the mother or father be penalized for leaving to attend to a sick child or to take an emergency phone call? There is no one-size-fits-all solution to this.

 

Penalizing people for leaving a wz early for attending to real-life issues may only stop people from pvp'ing and possibly cause some to stop playing the game completely. I don't think, at this point, Bioware can afford that.

 

What a parent you are if 10 minutes penalty is too much for you for attending to your sick child :-) You get 50 emergency calls a day so you wont be able to play WZ with 10 minutes penalty? You see your arguments are false. People may more likely stop going WZ because notoric quitters that quit imediately every match they are not winning from the start than by having 10 minutes penalty if they get a call.

[MRSA]

quiters are not the problem the undergeared solo he-man wondering off from the pack is. lack of leadership and people following instructions is. lack of team work is. letting your healer get ganked over and over then complain "were is the heals" is. people not able to learn and adapt is. so many factors are the problem not the quiters. I know by inspecting your gear while i wait to start and the 1st min into the match if its a win or lose situation. I play/pay to have fun. if you want to force your belief system on me and pentalize me 10-15 mins its well worth it then to deal with the trama you put me through.....or i will just invis and move the required steps to not get booted and go have a smoke or something. either way you havent fixed anything with that logic.

[PanVandemar]

quiters are not the problem the undergeared solo he-man wondering off from the pack is. lack of leadership and people following instructions is. lack of team work is. letting your healer get ganked over and over then complain "were is the heals" is. people not able to learn and adapt is. so many factors are the problem not the quiters. I know by inspecting your gear while i wait to start and the 1st min into the match if its a win or lose situation. I play/pay to have fun. if you want to force your belief system on me and pentalize me 10-15 mins its well worth it then to deal with the trama you put me through.....or i will just invis and move the required steps to not get booted and go have a smoke or something. either way you havent fixed anything with that logic.

 

Maybe instead of leaving Wz you should try to fight better to make up for those undergeared. If you are affraid to lose so you have to quit when you see undergeared players dont you mind that you spoil the warzone for other 7 players of your team more than undergeared player ever could ? This coward attitude is the reason why so often WZ sucks because playing with undergeared is tought but playing with 7 players is almost impossible to win or even have fun from the game. And to be honest even those 10-15 minutes are enough to prevent you to ruin more games you could quit in that time.

Edited February 28, 2013 by PanVandemar

[montreau]

Maybe instead of leaving Wz you should try to fight better to make up for those undergeared.

 

When all your teammates are dancing around smasher and you are the only one who tries to kill enemy healers there is no way you can win because you will fight better.

 

I`m a professional leaver. I leave almost every warzone. Why? I don`t need gear I already have it. The only reason i play warzones is fun. Leaving is like scrolling down. When you visit this forum you skip threads you don`t like and scroll down to find better stuff. Warzones are the same.

 

About undergeared. I got my merc to 50 yesterday Now i have full augmented warhero set. 20k+ hp. I was top dps even in half recruit gear and was melting down smashmonkeys looking for "easy" merc targets. Just L2P.

[PanVandemar]

When all your teammates are dancing around smasher and you are the only one who tries to kill enemy healers there is no way you can win because you will fight better.

 

I`m a professional leaver. I leave almost every warzone. Why? I don`t need gear I already have it. The only reason i play warzones is fun. Leaving is like scrolling down. When you visit this forum you skip threads you don`t like and scroll down to find better stuff. Warzones are the same.

 

About undergeared. I got my merc to 50 yesterday Now i have full augmented warhero set. 20k+ hp. I was top dps even in half recruit gear and was melting down smashmonkeys looking for "easy" merc targets. Just L2P.

 

A fine example for Bioware how one selfish player can ruin so many warzones for others because lack of some penalty for leaving.

[montreau]

A fine example for Bioware how one selfish player can ruin so many warzones for others because lack of some penalty for leaving.

Please read the first line of my post again. People ruin these warzones themselves, however they always need someone to blame. So they blame leavers, smashers and gear gap to hide their unability to master their own class.