Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

[Warren-Stride]

It's fine for G0-T0 to purchase anything he desires, and recruit every mercenary in the galaxy while equipping his forces with anything they could possibly desire....

 

I just want to point out that G0-T0, via the Exchange IS the Black Market. So really, he wouldn't have to buy anything, he already owns it and controls the market. That's kinda his thing. Remember, he's a economical power. Also, the Exchange already has plenty of mercenaries, the only reason we're arguing that he can hire others is that we have more details on those. And G0-T0's forces are already plenty equipt, it's not outrageous to say they'd suit up for facing a Sith army, where as usually they were fighting other criminals. Adapting to your enemy is key.

[Ventessel]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Super_tactical_droid

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/T-series_tactical_droid

 

Droids are definately capable of tactical thinking. Droids can have all sorts of upgrades, and combat-analysis software shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

These tactical droids?

They often issued conflicting orders due to their sense of superiority. When pushed, tactical droids would even order the destruction of their own allies if they got in the way[...]

 

This droid [TV-94] was later informed by Grievous that the approaching Republic forces led by Jedi would be a two-pronged attack; one aimed at distracting him and the other aimed at rescuing Eeth Koth. The cyborg General's predictions came true when Anakin Skywalker along with Adi Gallia arrived covertly on Grievous' Separatist destroyer. The tactical droid [...] admitted that Grievous's predictions had surprised it. [...]

 

Tano threw an explosive device at the droid and it attached itself to the super tank TX-21 was standing beside. The tactical droid laughed, stating that the super tank could not be damaged by such a device. He was correct; though there was no damage to the tank, TX-21 was destroyed by the explosion.

Sounds a lot like they were frequently surprised by the tactics of organics, and while capable of "calculations" they would frequently misunderstand the context of those variables.

 

"By around 20 BBY,[13] the Confederacy, considering standard tactical droids to be easily outmaneuvered by the Republic, manufactured the super tactical droid to compensate for the tactical droid's weaknesses."

Oh, so they made an upgraded version, I'm sure it was a brilliant commander...

"The droid seemed to dislike human tactics, seeing itself as superior to its flesh-and-blood counterparts. It focused only on the most likely attacks and refused to consider alternatives [...]

It was overly suspicious of any display of pity for the rebellion [...] Following a rebel victory"

 

Oops, looks like that droid lost because it couldn't keep up with the tactics of human enemies... Maybe another model had better success...

"another droid named Aut-O was commander of a small fleet of light destroyers and a dreadnought. He was decapitated by R2-D2 when the droid fell on his head"

Nevermind, I guess that super tactical droid didn't last long either.

 

So, you were telling me that G0-T0 would download these tactical programs? I think the results would be superbly hilarious, let him!

[Ventessel]

I just want to point out that G0-T0, via the Exchange IS the Black Market.

 

And I was pointing out that G0-T0 is not the Exchange. He is a planetary boss, he answers to a sector chief who in turn answers to the leader of the Exchange. So he's a few steps down the food chain.

 

So G0-T0 does not have unlimited, magical access to the entire black market. Nor does Traya necessarily have to purchase ammunition from the black market, and for special items like magnetic seeker missiles, they can either be purchased from corporations like Czerka (which are so large that their spending power easily exceeds that of G0-T0) or simply stolen.

[Warren-Stride]

And I was pointing out that G0-T0 is not the Exchange. He is a planetary boss, he answers to a sector chief who in turn answers to the leader of the Exchange. So he's a few steps down the food chain.

 

So G0-T0 does not have unlimited, magical access to the entire black market. Nor does Traya necessarily have to purchase ammunition from the black market, and for special items like magnetic seeker missiles, they can either be purchased from corporations like Czerka (which are so large that their spending power easily exceeds that of G0-T0) or simply stolen.

 

False. For the purposes of theis Kaggath, G0-T0 IS the Exchange. Either he is now the sole boss of the Exchange, or he controls all of it. Either way, he is still now the only major factor in the underworld, thus controlling the market.

 

Also, in the past debate with Xizor, I am almost positive Beni stated that G0-T0 had access to all the resources of the Exchange as a whole. In my opinion, retracting this statement now would be a crutch for Traya.

 

Czerka doesn't exist. To say otherwise would be hypocritical in the third degree. And who's she stealing them from? What other MAJOR POWER? Average citizens don't have this kind of tech.

[Warren-Stride]

These tactical droids?

 

*Shrug*

 

It still stands to reason that G0-T0, or his other droids, can download tactical data, and therefor put up a fight against Traya's fleet. That was the argument, and the point has been made. I'm not suggesting a complete replica of that certain droid. And even despite their flaws, they were still capable of commanding fleets. Something we have yet to see Traya's walking dead do.

 

Note that G0-T0 doesn't have the personality of the other droids, he's far more advanced and... mature.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Ventessel]

False. For the purposes of theis Kaggath, G0-T0 IS the Exchange. Either he is now the sole boss of the Exchange, or he controls all of it. Either way, he is still now the only major factor in the underworld, thus controlling the market.

 

Also, in the past debate with Xizor, I am almost positive Beni stated that G0-T0 had access to all the resources of the Exchange as a whole. In my opinion, retracting this statement now would be a crutch for Traya.

 

You are mistaken. Taken from the introduction of this Kaggath:

"Masquerading as an Exchange boss G0-T0 controlled his own planetary cell and a legion of elite HK-50 assassin droids and mercenary clans."

 

Xizor is a different case entirely. While Black Sun and the Exchange are similar criminal syndicates, Xizor had access to all of Black Sun's resources because he was the leader of Black Sun. G0-T0 is simply masquerading as a planetary boss. Totally different ballpark.

 

Czerka doesn't exist. To say otherwise would be hypocritical in the third degree. And who's she stealing them from? What other MAJOR POWER? Average citizens don't have this kind of tech.

I named Czerka because they are one of the major manufacters of the time period. Obviously some form of galactic infrastructure must exist, or else where is G0-T0's precious money coming from? There have to be freighters for him to raid, and people for his criminals to smuggle weapons and spice to. So it stands to reason that there must also be some form of manufacturing in the galaxy to produce generic weapons, ammunition, and other goods.

 

It's patently idiotic to claim that in these Kaggaths the black market becomes the only source of resources, since it is by nature a limited, secondary market.

[Ventessel]

*Shrug*

 

It still stands to reason that G0-T0, or his other droids, can download tactical data, and therefor put up a fight against Traya's fleet. That was the argument, and the point has been made. I'm not suggesting a complete replica of that certain droid. And even despite their flaws, they were still capable of commanding fleets. Something we have yet to see Traya's walking dead do.

 

Note that G0-T0 doesn't have the personality of the other droids, he's far more advanced and... mature.

 

And yet he lacks any kind of military programming. I'm maintaining that droids make terrible thinkers in warfare, and you have presented no evidence to the contrary.

[Warren-Stride]

And yet he lacks any kind of military programming. I'm maintaining that droids make terrible thinkers in warfare, and you have presented no evidence to the contrary.

 

Whelp, looks like I was wrong. G0-T0 doesn't need to download anything. There are upgrades designed for HK units that are the perfect match for him. Imagine that.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_warfare_upgrade

Edited March 13, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Wolfninjajedi]

Whelp, looks like I was wrong. G0-T0 doesn't need to download anything. There are upgrades designed for HK units that are the perfect match for him. Imagine that.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_warfare_upgrade

 

While that is nice, it has literally next to no information on it. Great...so G0-T0 can become a master general/tactician....ok, that doesn't mean a thing really, mistakes can still be made, he can still fail, there isn't any great feats that have any droid using said module to wage a battle and come out with a victory. Is that to say it won't be helpful? No...but its not an insta-win either.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Warren-Stride]

While that is nice, it has literally next to no information on it. Great...so G0-T0 can become a master general/tactician....ok, that doesn't mean a thing really, mistakes can still be made, he can still fail, there isn't any great feats that have any droid using said module to wage a battle and come out with a victory. Is that to say it won't be helpful? No...but its not an insta-win either.

 

I don't know why we're arguing this anyways, there will never be a space battle, I'm 72% sure. I was just disputing the fact that droids cannot be tacticians and generals. Don't underestimate droids. :<

Edited March 13, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Ventessel]

I don't know why we're arguing this anyways, there will never be a space battle, I'm 72% sure. I was just disputing the fact that droids cannot be tacticians and generals. Don't underestimate droids. :<

 

If anything, it appears that droid tacticians are the ones who consistently underestimate human fighters. Even HK-47 really had a pretty low opinion of "meatbags" who could easily destroy him.

 

And the exact description of the droid warfare package only states that it was intended to create master tacticians. We have no evidence that it worked well at all, and since we've seen only mediocre examples of droid generals, we can only assume that no one has successfully created programming that can teach droids to be good strategists.

 

And it won't come to a space battle, because Traya is the only one with a fleet.

 

Why don't we address the other, more important points for now. Namely, how is G0-T0 going to keep spending money like a sailor in a whorehouse if he is not longer raiding freighters for their cargoes? That was a large chunk of his discretionary income, and set him apart from the other Exchange bosses.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Ventessel

[Warren-Stride]

Why don't we address the other, more important points for now. Namely, how is G0-T0 going to keep spending money like a sailor in a whorehouse if he is not longer raiding freighters for their cargoes? That was a large chunk of his discretionary income, and set him apart from the other Exchange bosses.

 

No... it wasn't.....

 

G0-T0's motivations for hijacking Vogga's frieghters were not even close to having to do with personal profit.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vogga

The intentions of "Goto," – G0-T0 – were simple: he thought that any deals with the Hutts would bankrupt the Republic. He therefore made sure that the Telosian Restoration Project and Citadel Station relied on Peragus for obtaining fuel. Even after the Peragus Mining Facility had been destroyed, G0-T0 continued disrupting Vogga's business: he thought that, as tragic as the supposed destruction of Telos and Citadel Station could be, it was still a lesser evil for the Republic than striking a deal with a Hutt.

 

The Peragus Mining Facility wasn't even under G0-T0s control. And Vogga wasn't carrying fortunes on those frieghters, for sure after the first few times they disappeared. In actuality, there is no evidence G0-T0 was making any credits off his hijacking at all. In G0-T0's wookieepedia page it doesn't even mention Vogga by name.

 

Oh, and apparently credits don't matter too much anyways, because G0-T0 can't hire more thugs. And he already has access to the goods of the Black Market.

 

But, for the sake of argument, how does G0-T0 make his credits? Well firstly, he has a ton already. He's kinda rich. But he also plays global economics, runs a smuggling ring, taxes citizens like those in the Refugee Sector, sells slaves, runs spice, basically all the illegal activities to be expected of a crimelord.

 

Those frieghters of Vogga's he captures? Yeah, he has hundreds of those who work for him.

[Ventessel]

No... it wasn't.....

 

G0-T0's motivations for hijacking Vogga's frieghters were not even close to having to do with personal profit.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vogga

 

His freighters were stolen and their cargo used to bolster economically unstable Republic worlds

The hijacked freighters were used as part of G0-T0's economic endeavors. But yes, they only represent a portion of his income.

 

Eventually building a jet-black orb of a body, G0-T0 began to set up as a smuggling ring on the moon Nar Shaddaa [...] G0-T0's actions, while illegal, did aid the Republic in rebuilding itself. Its smuggling ring caused the deaths of destabilizing persons or organizations, developed unofficial profits for entire sectors, and strengthened Republic worlds that would otherwise be poor and ignored.

 

But, for the sake of argument, how does G0-T0 make his credits? Well firstly, he has a ton already. He's kinda rich. But he also plays global economics, runs a smuggling ring, taxes citizens like those in the Refugee Sector, sells slaves, runs spice, basically all the illegal activities to be expected of a crimelord.

Where is the evidence that G0-T0 is independently wealthy? He is a rogue planning droid, it's not like he inherited an estate. His startup capital came from the smuggling ring he organized on Nar Shaddaa. Most of his smuggling income ends up getting spent rebuilding Republic worlds

 

The rest of that income, the spice, slaves, and refugee taxes are all part of the Exchange's income that he simply controls. Cut that off and he runs out of money in a hurry. His power base is quite fragile in fact, since the Sith can start interdicting his smuggling and spice shipments.

 

How to find them? Simply send Assassins and Sith Lords to infiltrate Exchange bases on Nar Shaddaa. Use Drain Knowledge to learn when and where shipments are expected, and then use the Interdictors to take them. Certainly they won't find every smuggling ship, but they'll put a dent in his operations.

 

Refugees are paying him taxes? Kill his enforcers in the Refugee sector like the Jedi Exile did. While they're at it, kill his slaves. Intercept those transports as well, and either recruit the slaves as cannon fodder or vent them into space. Destroy his income sources and the Exchange will be very unhappy, and his underlings will be more than willing to overthrow him because now the money's running out and they're barely getting paid.

[Warren-Stride]

Destroy his income sources and the Exchange will be very unhappy, and his underlings will be more than willing to overthrow him because now the money's running out and they're barely getting paid.

 

Uhh.....

 

They don't get paid if they betray their boss and die...

 

In fact, if G0-T0 loses his income sources, the entire planet will start to suffer. When the Visionary was destroyed last time, (aka G0-T0 was removed from the equation) crime and the economy in the system were disrupted for years due to the power vaccum. But if Traya's the one causing this economic downturn, the Exchange members are only going to hate her more, because she's bad for business. And she can claim all she wants to that she'll leave as soon as G0-T0 is dead, but

 

a.) Underworld people hate other factions

b.) Sith don't have a great track record with the underworld, look at Taris

c.) The bosses have no way to overthrow him even if they wanted to

 

Okay, expanding on b. Are you telling me that Exchange bosses are going to be stupid enough to ally with the very same evil back-stabbing force that blew up Davik Kung's entire planet? No. No they will not. The Exchange is NOT a fan of the Sith, nor will they ever be.

 

If Traya starts undermining G0-T0, the Exchange and everyone else on the Smuggler's Moon will only rally against her. "She's the one bad for business, not G0-T0. And we hate it when some force-user messes up our sweet gig. FOR SURE on the Smuggler's Moon, which is supposed to be our haven. "

Edited March 13, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Ventessel]

Uhh.....

 

They don't get paid if they betray their boss and die...

 

In fact, if G0-T0 loses his income sources, the entire planet will start to suffer. When the Visionary was destroyed last time, (aka G0-T0 was removed from the equation) crime and the economy in the system were disrupted for years due to the power vaccum. But if Traya's the one causing this economic downturn, the Exchange members are only going to hate her more, because she's bad for business. And she can claim all she wants to that she'll leave as soon as G0-T0 is dead, but

 

a.) Underworld people hate other factions

b.) Sith don't have a great track record with the underworld, look at Taris

c.) The bosses have no way to overthrow him even if they wanted to

 

Okay, expanding on b. Are you telling me that Exchange bosses are going to be stupid enough to ally with the very same evil back-stabbing force that blew up Davik Kung's entire planet? No. No they will not. The Exchange is NOT a fan of the Sith, nor will they ever be.

 

If Traya starts undermining G0-T0, the Exchange and everyone else on the Smuggler's Moon will only rally against her. "She's the one bad for business, not G0-T0. And we hate it when some force-user messes up our sweet gig. FOR SURE on the Smuggler's Moon, which is supposed to be our haven. "

 

You are assuming, quite idealistically, that there is indeed honor among thieves. Criminals, the Exchange included, are not some honorable fraternity who will rally together to defend Nar Shaddaa. Quite the opposite, under the threat of a "second Taris", they will immediately look for some way to keep the Sith off their back. And if G0-T0 is the key to that, then he will be betrayed in a heartbeat by the same people who already are looking to depose him and take his job. It just gives them a convenient excuse.

 

The spectre of Taris will cast a very long shadow over Nar Shaddaa, and every single member of the Exchange will be thinking first and foremost about their survival. They're already ready to betray each other, this is just an extra incentive. Criminals aren't fans of the Sith, but the Sith have always tolerated the underworld and its slave and spice trades. Furthermore, the Exchange will be terrified of the Sith after Taris. They view the Sith as dangerous and insane, and will avoid conflict with them first and foremost.

[Warren-Stride]

You are assuming, quite idealistically, that there is indeed honor among thieves. Criminals, the Exchange included, are not some honorable fraternity who will rally together to defend Nar Shaddaa. Quite the opposite, under the threat of a "second Taris", they will immediately look for some way to keep the Sith off their back. And if G0-T0 is the key to that, then he will be betrayed in a heartbeat by the same people who already are looking to depose him and take his job. It just gives them a convenient excuse.

 

The spectre of Taris will cast a very long shadow over Nar Shaddaa, and every single member of the Exchange will be thinking first and foremost about their survival. They're already ready to betray each other, this is just an extra incentive. Criminals aren't fans of the Sith, but the Sith have always tolerated the underworld and its slave and spice trades. Furthermore, the Exchange will be terrified of the Sith after Taris. They view the Sith as dangerous and insane, and will avoid conflict with them first and foremost.

 

If this were some backwater, you would be correct. But the is Nar Shaddaa. The center of business and profit for people such as these, and the seat of the most powerful Exchange boss. You see, this is where the credibility factor comes in. G0-T0 says "Fight back the Sith or you know they'll just blow you all up" and Traya says "We'll only blow you up if G0-T0 doesn't die."

 

...

 

Let me remind you that things are pretty good for smugglers and other underworld people at this point. There are no rules, no other governing powers. It's almost anarchy. Almost. One factor stands in their way to the ultimate free market: Traya and her rag-tag beat-up Sith goons. They are the only force left who can control them, and now they're already dictating the Exchange's internal affairs? So not only will fighting back Traya be profitable because working for G0-T0 tends to pay off, but in the long run the underworld will suddenly rule the galaxy.

 

And if what you say is true, there is no reason for them to betray G0-T0. They would want to avoid contact with the Sith altogether, and therefor not become their pawns. So why would they ally themselves with them? They wouldn't. If anything, they would fly off to a distant part of the galaxy to not get involved. If that happens, G0-T0 might lose part of his powerbase, but he won't be betrayed.

 

 

 

Also, you keep talking of betrayal. How exactly will these other Exchange members betray G0-T0?

 

EDIT: But we are trying to predict how people will react. Which doesn't make too much sense, seeing as we are not them and (hopefully) don't have the mindset of a criminal. Odds are there will be a split. Some stay loyal, some attempt to betray G0-T0, and some just leave. However, my money is on most remaining loyal.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Ventessel]

If this were some backwater, you would be correct. But the is Nar Shaddaa. The center of business and profit for people such as these, and the seat of the most powerful Exchange boss. You see, this is where the credibility factor comes in. G0-T0 says "Fight back the Sith or you know they'll just blow you all up" and Traya says "We'll only blow you up if G0-T0 doesn't die."

 

Traya would never say that explicitly, but the thought would obviously linger in the back of their minds. They'll know what happens when the Sith get impatient. And there will be no public declaration, Traya's assassins and agents will move in quietly and only approach those people who have a lot to gain if G0-T0 is destroyed, his immediate subordinates in the Exchange.

 

And if what you say is true, there is no reason for them to betray G0-T0. They would want to avoid contact with the Sith altogether, and therefor not become their pawns. So why would they ally themselves with them? They wouldn't. If anything, they would fly off to a distant part of the galaxy to not get involved. If that happens, G0-T0 might lose part of his powerbase, but he won't be betrayed.

 

Also, you keep talking of betrayal. How exactly will these other Exchange members betray G0-T0?

They would betray him by revealing his plans and shipments to the Sith, who would interdict them and give the lion's share of the profits to those who provided the information. Instead of G0-T0 profiting from his smuggling, his rivals and subordinates would.

 

Eventually, his yacht will be compromised. His communications cannot remain secret forever, and the Sith can very easily "convince" experts like the Bith technician who discovered G0-T0's signal to help them triangulate the position of G0-T0's yacht.

 

EDIT: But we are trying to predict how people will react. Which doesn't make too much sense, seeing as we are not them and (hopefully) don't have the mindset of a criminal. Odds are there will be a split. Some stay loyal, some attempt to betray G0-T0, and some just leave. However, my money is on most remaining loyal.

While this is true on a large scale, it's not the mass betrayal of his people that Traya is looking for, but rather the calculated betrayals of a few individuals in a position to harm G0-T0 and benefit from his demise. Rather than trying to divide the Exchange, Traya would simply look to facilitate a smooth transition of power to G0-T0's subordinates, or specifically the ones who figure out where he is and leak that info to the Sith.

 

This is the problem with a criminal organization, they're motivated first and foremost by profit, and the higher up the food chain they climb, the larger an appetite for wealth they'll acquire. They have everything to gain by betraying G0-T0, but the worst that could happen is that he finds out and kills them... which is what will definitely happen if they help him fight the Sith. It becomes a matter of taking a risky bet versus a suicidal bet.

[Beniboybling]

OK, first of all, lets all just chill - I sense a flame war coming on and as much as I like debate boosters its probably not a good idea.

 

But anyway, time to give this debate some focus. To avoid as going round in circles and remaking points I'm going lay down some ground for this debate (this is not K-Canon, just an summary of events from my perspective)

 

In the opening stages of the Kaggath each combatant will be enacting their own preliminary schemes:

 

 

• Traya will be scouting out Nar Shaddaa for Exchange bases and hideouts, then proceed to shadow strike them and sow fear throughout the Underworld.
   
   
  
• G0-T0 will be outfitting his army for an invasion of Malachor i.e. equipping vessels with stealth tech, producing/shipping HK units, outfitting them with advanced weaponry, tracking down Bao-Dur and enlisting his support.
  

 

By the time G0-T0 is ready, Traya would likely have done some significant physical and psychological damage to his powerbase on the Smuggler's Moon, though nothing to hinder his impending invasion which will commence as scheduled. After bypassing the interdiction fleet G0-T0 will invade the planet in a two pronged assault and may or may not succeed in destroying the planet. Although really, success is more likely than failure.

 

However its also a high possibility that Traya would have fled the planet upon learning of the invasion, expecting a reactivation of a weapon that she has no means to prevent (she does not know where the weapon is, or how G0-T0 plans to reactivate it.) However losses will be minimal, and she'll likely capture some HK units for further study.

 

Traya will retreat to Korriban and G0-T0 may very well assume Traya is dead, however as Warren has proven, this will only provide Traya time to prepare and attack/regather her forces, rather than an opportunity to kill G0-T0. G0-T0 will sit idle, while Traya will learn the location of the HK factory and invade. Destroying this asset by revealing her survival to G0-T0.

 

G0-T0 will go back on the offensive, searching for Traya's new location and planning a means of attack, (and also attempting to counter Traya's shadow strikes on his powerbase) while Traya will re-bolster her assault on G0-T0's powerbase, sowing further fear and doubt in the Exchange and prompting his forces to desert him, and possibly impart information in exchange (pun not intended) for immunity from her assassins.

 

Where the battle would go from here, I am not sure. But at least we now have some foundations, feel free to dispute them if you which. But a few further points that need addressing:

 

 

• The Exchange is not the mafia, betraying your superiors does not mean death. As others have pointed out betrayal in the Exchange was commonplace. Loppa Slusk was betrayed by Luxa and Davik Kang was betrayed by Canderous Ordo. And Visquis betrayed G0-T0. Lets remember that underling crime lords such as Visquis and Saquesh are by no means excluded from this Kaggath. But of course we have to consider how much damage these people can actually do.
   
   
  
• The Exchange don't give a damn about each other, and I certainly not going to be angry at the Sith for destroying the Exchange presence on Taris. All these guys care about are credits, influence and their own skin. And if Traya forces them to join her on punishment of death for refusal, they might just accept.
   
   
  
• Let me reitirate, G0-T0's yacht is locked down tight. He will be recieving no visitors, no one will be 'meeting' with him at all. However a holotrace device could be used, but that depends on G0-T0 staying put and how untraceable his transmissions would be, mind you Lux Bonteri used it against Dooku...
   
   
  
• G0-T0 will never break, simply because it is his nature not too. He is an infrastructure planning droid designed specifically to handle the immense amount of data a droid would have to process when single-handedly governing an entire system. I think G0-T0 can manage a Kaggath.
   
   
  
• Canino points out the problem of ammo, but this is not a problem. It would be if Traya were engaging in a full scale war but she is not, in fact the Sith Commandos will rarely be used at all, likely only in defense. Its the Sith and the assassins which will be carrying out all major operations.
   
   
  
• However Traya cannot actually resupply her forces at all, Czerka previously supplied the Sith Empire with weapons etc. but broke off that deal after they lost the Jedi Civil War. Therefore Czerka are not apart of Traya's powerbase and not in the Kaggath, I doubt she had any suppliers during the Dark Wars either, so she can't make any deals etc. as these suppliers do not exist. The same applies to any companies G0-T0 is unaffiliated with, they do not exist.
   
   
  
• G0-T0 needs a battleship to orbitally bombard Korriban, he does not have one and has no means of procuring one.
   
   
  
• The 'Second Battle of Malachor V' is by no means an assured win for Traya, the last couple of pages have only proven that Traya would repel the Academy invasion, but seeing as this is a decoy for the reactivation of the MSG the this is largely irrelevant.
   
   
  
• Its been confirmed that Traya has access to this weapon, as it is effectively a repeating blaster on a mount. And Traya possess many repeating blasters as well as basic military strategy. K-Canon.
   
   
  
• G0-T0 has pretty extensive access to the Black Market, that's not to say he IS the Black Market. But he can pretty much by anything he wants from it, after all all its takes is credits and influence. It's not exactly exclusive.
   
   
  
• The smugglers and the bounty hunters are not even third parties, they are fourth parties, the rules of the Kaggath and the Kaggath set up as a whole does not affect them. They are just smugglers and bounty hunters, same as they always are.
  

[Wolfninjajedi]

Also Beni help clear something up, G0-T0 has the entire Exchange or just his planetary area? I noted that was something was argued about, so just for clarification.

[Beniboybling]

Also Beni help clear something up, G0-T0 has the entire Exchange or just his planetary area? I noted that was something was argued about, so just for clarification.

G0-T0 controls a planetary cell, being Nar Shaddaa. He does not have access to the resource, influence etc. of other Exchange bosses of other planetary cells such as Davik Kang and Loppa Slusk. This is because G0-T0 is not the leader of the Exchange, but one of many subordinates.

[Warren-Stride]

Traya will retreat to Korriban and G0-T0 may very well assume Traya is dead, however as Warren has proven, this will only provide Traya time to prepare and attack/regather her forces, rather than an opportunity to kill G0-T0. G0-T0 will sit idle, while Traya will learn the location of the HK factory and invade. Destroying this asset by revealing her survival to G0-T0.

 

So wait, the assult on the HK factory is a confirmed win for Traya?

[Wolfninjajedi]

G0-T0 controls a planetary cell, being Nar Shaddaa. He does not have access to the resource, influence etc. of other Exchange bosses of other planetary cells such as Davik Kang and Loppa Slusk. This is because G0-T0 is not the leader of the Exchange, but one of many subordinates.

 

Alright then.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Warren-Stride]

The Exchange is not the mafia, betraying your superiors does not mean death. As others have pointed out betrayal in the Exchange was commonplace. Loppa Slusk was betrayed by Luxa and Davik Kang was betrayed by Canderous Ordo. And Visquis betrayed G0-T0. Lets remember that underling crime lords such as Visquis and Saquesh are by no means excluded from this Kaggath. But of course we have to consider how much damage these people can actually do.

 

Visquis died.

 

If you betray G0-T0, you will get killed. Maybe not by other minor figures like yourself, but G0-T0 has an extensive reach. He basically out-hired Visquis to have his own bodyguards turn against him. I'm sure he does this for others as well. And let's not forget, G0-T0 has HK-50 droids he'll be using to a much larger extent. Traya has her Sith, G0-T0 has HKs. So either way, they'll get killed by some kind of assassin, be it droid that is infamous for killing people or by Sith assassins that are more of a myth. Not exactly a tough choice.

 

And all G0-T0 has to do is make an example (even if it's a flase one) out of a few of his underlings to keep the rest in line.

[Warren-Stride]

Where is the evidence that G0-T0 is independently wealthy? He is a rogue planning droid, it's not like he inherited an estate. His startup capital came from the smuggling ring he organized on Nar Shaddaa. Most of his smuggling income ends up getting spent rebuilding Republic worlds.

 

The bounty placed on live Jedi/Sith was enough to buy a planet, apparently (according to G0-T0's wookieepedia article). So yes, he is plenty rich and has tons of credits on-hand.

[LadyKulvax]

Visquis died.

 

If you betray G0-T0, you will get killed. Maybe not by other minor figures like yourself, but G0-T0 has an extensive reach. He basically out-hired Visquis to have his own bodyguards turn against him. I'm sure he does this for others as well. And let's not forget, G0-T0 has HK-50 droids he'll be using to a much larger extent. Traya has her Sith, G0-T0 has HKs. So either way, they'll get killed by some kind of assassin, be it droid that is infamous for killing people or by Sith assassins that are more of a myth. Not exactly a tough choice.

 

And all G0-T0 has to do is make an example (even if it's a flase one) out of a few of his underlings to keep the rest in line.

 

1.Visquis and probably everybody else in the Exchange wouldn't know about it, which leads to 2. Betray G0-T0 and probably gain his powerbase or definitely be killed by the oncoming storm. 3.It only takes one screwing him over for the Sith to find out where he is. Which means 4.Your point that they'd be too scared after a certain boss is killed is moot and really, who'd you fear more, the Sith who are breathing down your neck or assassins you could be protected from by the Sith's own forces.

Edited March 13, 2013 by LadyKulvax