DPS operatives in 2.0

[Fallenturtle]

Should have specified that it is not my parse but one that has come to my attention. BTW it is the 55 (resists chance that is nto on the 50 dummy). It could be inflated in other ways let me know if you spot one. Also isn't he UH boost for healing only?

 

After going through the entire log I'm noticing a few interesting things that might skew the results.

 

First off, How are you able to get 3 Stim boosts/Pugnacity off in a 5 minute fight when the cool down on it is 2 minutes? Same with Cool heads/Adrenal probe. the numbers aren't adding up.

 

Second, what's not shown in the logs is if any stim was used, nor what relic you used to get the power boost (that also seemed to activate 3 times in the 5 minute fight.. Nano-infused attack adrenal, that's the new one correct?

 

There's just too many variables like the ones I mentioned to really test that this is our "target damage" when other classes are getting just as much without the use of attack adrenals, new adrenals, etc. Not to burst your bubble but just what I'm seeing after going through the log and reading it.

[Syberduh]

The stim boost one I can answer. You use one at time = 0 one at time = 2min one at time = 4min for a total of 3.

[Ravashakk]

After going through the entire log I'm noticing a few interesting things that might skew the results.

 

First off, How are you able to get 3 Stim boosts/Pugnacity off in a 5 minute fight when the cool down on it is 2 minutes? Same with Cool heads/Adrenal probe. the numbers aren't adding up.

 

Second, what's not shown in the logs is if any stim was used, nor what relic you used to get the power boost (that also seemed to activate 3 times in the 5 minute fight.. Nano-infused attack adrenal, that's the new one correct?

 

There's just too many variables like the ones I mentioned to really test that this is our "target damage" when other classes are getting just as much without the use of attack adrenals, new adrenals, etc. Not to burst your bubble but just what I'm seeing after going through the log and reading it.

 

At 15 seconds, use stim boost. At 2:15 you use it again. At 4:15 you use it a third time. Am I missing something?

[Syberduh]

so finally logged myself onto PTS.....

 

Energy management is definately better, and more collateral strikes are nice.....but I see no buff in lacerate damage and collateral strike still hits pretty soft.

 

 

Changes to collateral strike average out to about 16% buff to lacerate damage.

 

 

Assume that collateral strike gives 25% extra damage on lacerate. So we'll pretend that lacerate does 100 damage and lacerate + collateral strike does 125.

 

Start with 2 TA and assume target is dotted up.

 

On live these scenarios are possible:

 

1) Lacerate (no proc) + lacerate (no proc) = 200 damage

2) Lacerate (proc) + lacerate (no proc) + lacerate (no proc) = 325 damage

3) Lacerate (no proc) + lacerate (proc) + lacerate (no proc) = 325 damage

 

Scenario 1) happens .5 * .5 = 25% of the time

Scenario 2) happens .5 * 1 * 1 = 50% of the time

Scenario 3) happens .5 * .5 * 1 = 25% of the time

 

Weighted average damage = [(200 * 25) + (325 * 50) + (325 * 25) / 100 = ~294

 

On the pts these scenarios are possible

 

1) Lacerate (no proc) + lacerate (no proc) = 200 damage

2) Lacerate (no proc) + lacerate (proc) + lacerate (no proc) = 325 damage

3) Lacerate (no proc) + lacerate (proc) + lacerate (proc) = 350 damage

4) Lacerate (proc) + lacerate (no proc) + lacerate (no proc) = 325 damage

5) Lacerate (proc) + lacerate (no proc) + lacerate (proc) = 350 damage

6) Lacerate (proc) + lacerate (proc) + lacerate (no proc) = 350 damage

7) Lacerate (proc) + lacerate (proc) + lacerate (proc) = 375 damage

 

At first seems like a minimal difference, but there's much lower chance that you'll get screwed with a double no-proc. Double no proc happens only .3 * .3 = 9% of the time. Triple proc happens .7*.7*.7 = 34% of the time.

 

Weighted average of this damage:

 

(200 *9) + (325 *6.3) + (350 *14.7) + (325 *6.3) + (350 *14.7) + (350 *14.7) + (375 *34) / 100 = ~ 341

 

341 / 294 = 1.16 = 16% damage buff on lacerate. Not too bad.

[Darth_Dreselus]

After going through the entire log I'm noticing a few interesting things that might skew the results.

 

First off, How are you able to get 3 Stim boosts/Pugnacity off in a 5 minute fight when the cool down on it is 2 minutes? Same with Cool heads/Adrenal probe. the numbers aren't adding up.

 

Second, what's not shown in the logs is if any stim was used, nor what relic you used to get the power boost (that also seemed to activate 3 times in the 5 minute fight.. Nano-infused attack adrenal, that's the new one correct?

 

There's just too many variables like the ones I mentioned to really test that this is our "target damage" when other classes are getting just as much without the use of attack adrenals, new adrenals, etc. Not to burst your bubble but just what I'm seeing after going through the log and reading it.

 

Others have explained the relic and adrenal, it is possible to use 3 in 5 minutes, in fact it is possible to use 3 in 4 minutes 1 second. Nano-infused is the new one and I do not think there is a step between Exotech and nano-infused.

 

As I have not seen a higher parse yet (seen some 2300 and such) I would have guessed that the nano-infused stim was used, they are very easy to get a hold off as the schems can be obtained from the trainer (the green one, have to RE it). Another thing that is not evident is the presence of an armour debuff. Questionable as to how this skews parses, in a raid there will be a debuff provided you have Jugg/Sniper/Merc in the group.

 

Should anyone spot anything else wrong please do highlight it.

 

This is from the person who made the parse:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5942454

 

Another interesting DF parse: http://www.torparse.com/a/152223/time/1362314706/1362315007/0/Damage+Dealt

Edited March 3, 2013 by Darth_Dreselus

[Fearine]

By first look these new abilities makes DPS Operatives the counter class of Rage Marauders.

Their two most damaging skills (Ravage, Smash) are hard countered by Operatives in 2.0.

 

They are countered in live too but only when we have the required cooldowns. This new roll brings us out of danger zone whenever we want.

 

Of course time will tell.

[Syberduh]

Can't roll while rooted by the leap, so we still need a stun to get away from smash.

[Fearine]

Yes but we usually don't fight Marauders outside 10 mt (not without cover at least) and the root of Obliterate is 1 second (I think).

 

So unless they they got us in the open and with coooldowns (in this case we are almost screwed by any class ) I think we gonna have more chances now to avoid Smashes.

 

Anyway I don't know the smashbot spec so good.

 

Time will tell.

[Coldin]

Won't help much against marauders that root during ravage either. That really hurts when you have to take the full damage from it.

[Coplann]

Well, you could use the roll to get into a skirmish, use Acid Blade + Backstabb on a target (maybe also Shiv, Lacerate and Explosive Probe), then roll out again to wait on the cooldown of backstabb (and EP) to recycle. Melees without a jump-ability (or if its on cooldown) will have a hard time to get a lock on you and get in range to hit you.

You could also use it to LoS someone and heal up until he ran back up to you.

 

Lethality of course prospers the most from it. I can see the spec now perform as intended (as a nice DOT / Kite spec). DOT people up (slow them), roll in to Cull a few times, roll out to regain Energy and/or heal up, or keep rolling/running to stay out of Smash range ^^

[Coplann]

Won't help much against marauders that root during ravage either. That really hurts when you have to take the full damage from it.

 

Lethality/Countermeasure (slow / root removal)?

[Coldin]

Lethality/Countermeasure (slow / root removal)?

 

That doesn't work too well when you're concealment.

 

I think Lethality will be much better for staying alive than Concealment, due to some of it's perks.

[AngelofCain]

Won't help much against marauders that root during ravage either. That really hurts when you have to take the full damage from it.

 

evasion removes the root, and negates the attack.

 

So you shouldn't be eating a full ravage anyways.

[Fearine]

That doesn't work too well when you're concealment.

 

I think Lethality will be much better for staying alive than Concealment, due to some of it's perks.

 

Well, DoT based classes are killing melees at 1vs1 in almost every MMO. But they are countered by healing classes and range burst.

While Concealment against these two manages somehow better.

[Coldin]

evasion removes the root, and negates the attack.

 

So you shouldn't be eating a full ravage anyways.

 

Ravage is a much shorter cooldown than Evasion though.

 

I'm not saying that I eat it everytime. But we don't have a reliable counter to it everytime it's used. Especially in back to back marauder fights.

[AngelofCain]

Ravage is a much shorter cooldown than Evasion though.

 

I'm not saying that I eat it everytime. But we don't have a reliable counter to it everytime it's used. Especially in back to back marauder fights.

 

okay... so the second mara you stun during ravage. simple as that.

[Fearine]

That new skill of Lethality: Toxic Regulators.

 

According to its description DoTs are not ticking on sleeping targets.

This means you can sleep a target, load him with DoTs, pop Stim Boost and wake him up with Weakening Blast and a full damaging Cull?

(Or Shiv and Cull... I don't know Lethality's good rotations)

Edited March 5, 2013 by Fearine

[Darth_Dreselus]

Yes but we usually don't fight Marauders outside 10 mt (not without cover at least) and the root of Obliterate is 1 second (I think).

 

Juggs now have a 0.5s GCD slow and Maras have an auto slow after Charge/Obliterate. Ravage also follows the target for something like 7m (dunno exactly but it is out of melee range)

[ktkenshinx]

That new skill of Lethality: Toxic Regulators.

 

According to its description DoTs are not ticking on sleeping targets.

This means you can sleep a target, load him with DoTs, pop Stim Boost and wake him up with Weakening Blast and a full damaging Cull?

(Or Shiv and Cull... I don't know Lethality's good rotations)

Yes, that new talent definitely makes Lethality a whole lot better at the 1v1 on off-nodes. It doesn't work nearly as well in the 1v2 setup, because the Dart --> Grenade --> Probe setup has to be done from out of stealth, but it still gives Lethality an awesome 1v1 burst option. It can also be used mid-combat off of a Flashbang, which gives yet another tactical option.

[Coplann]

Well, DoT based classes are killing melees at 1vs1 in almost every MMO. But they are countered by healing classes and range burst.

While Concealment against these two manages somehow better.

 

Actually since patch 1.2, my Op is burning through healers much faster and easier with Lethality than with Concealment (especially if you are unlucky with your crits on HS/BS/EP as Conc). Most healers wont notice your DoTs and WB and not even regard you as a threat. Then stun and triple Cull -> dead healer. This will be faster and easier in 2.0.

 

Concealment is too crit dependant and crit ratings are nerfed by >10% on pts. And all that Alacricity wont help much when everything worthwhile is on cooldown. I also still wonder why they put the crit damage bonus on HS (ok), BS (ok), AB (ok) and Sever Tendon (<- what!?!). If Sever Tendon had a base damage similar to Shiv or Lacerate fine, but this bonus is so misplaced, it would be much better if it included Shiv or Lacerate instead...

One of the many logical flaws in the Concealment Tree....

 

Too bad in euro-time yesterday there were no warzones going on pts, would have loved to test the new Lethality...

[Fearine]

Ravage also follows the target for something like 7m (dunno exactly but it is out of melee range)

 

Bad maded game mechanics.

 

If you stay in range of Ravage to about 75-80% then you will recieve the third strike even if you run outside the warzone.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Fearine

[WaldoA]

I just wish there was an ability something along the lines of making Knife crit attacks lower the CD on Cloaking Screen by like 1 second so I could stealth more often during fights resulting in more Hidden Strikes. I hate only being able to use HS once per fight (twice if have CD) it's such a nice looking ability Edited March 7, 2013 by WaldoA

[JabulDFR]

So has anyone tested concealment in the past couple days in wz's?

[Ravashakk]

Yes, that new talent definitely makes Lethality a whole lot better at the 1v1 on off-nodes. It doesn't work nearly as well in the 1v2 setup, because the Dart --> Grenade --> Probe setup has to be done from out of stealth, but it still gives Lethality an awesome 1v1 burst option. It can also be used mid-combat off of a Flashbang, which gives yet another tactical option.

 

I'm looking forward to setting up some insane burst. Here is how I see it going down.

 

I'm fighting some guy and a power tech jumps me. I finish the guy off and flash bang the pt. assuming his break isn't up, corrosive dart/nade, explosive probe, orbital strike, stim boost, WB then start culling when first tick of OS blows up. Prob 100% to nothing in 3 secs.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Ravashakk

[Haystak]

I'm looking forward to setting up some insane burst. Here is how I see it going down.

 

I'm fighting some guy and a power tech jumps me. I finish the guy off and flash bang the pt. assuming his break isn't up, corrosive dart/nade, explosive probe, orbital strike, stim boost, WB then start culling when first tick of OS blows up. Prob 100% to nothing in 3 secs.

 

If everything crits....Good luck with that though. if it doesnt well hes sitting at half health and your out of energy.