Thank you for the responses. I have been watching damage and comparing the two. And the fact VS hits twice would make up the fact it does more damage in the long run. Now if lacerate hit twice...think it would be a different story.

Are you really gimping yourself on damage by not?

So I switched back to deception last night just to test out my dps Vs. my hatred spec to see the differences. I noticed in the top tier of the perks there is one called 'Lambaste' which increases the damage of Lacerate by %25. I thought to myself "Huh..." So I selected it and compared VS to Lacerate. Lacerate had approximately 250 more damage over VS in the tool tip. Now I know VS hits twice, but compared to the damage done lacerate hits harder as I tested both out in HM FPs. I was not force starved either because of the fact that Lacerate and VS share the same force cost and the fact Lacerate does proc Surging charge.(And looks cooler to use than the yoyo guy from 'Startropics'.) Any more insight to this would be appreciated; definitely interested in hearing what others think and or may say on this.

You could use Lacerate with the lambaste perk.(25% increase to lacerate damage) About 250 more damage than VS and it still procs both voltage and induction along with the surging charge. Only thing it only hits once but i have noticed it hits harder than VS.

Force scream was rather ugly looking in my opinion. The Blade storm looked better. (Along with Master Strike) I think the new devastating blast is better on the eyes. I think they should have made the sith classes more acrobatic and flashy anyway, but thats just me.

I agree with this guy.

I honestly tried reading this entire thread to get some sort of feedback for my Assassin play style but sadly was utterly turned off by how egotistical and retarded Evo is. I am pretty sure I am not the only one who thinks this.

Lazy in my opinion. Does not seem like they even tried/cared to even try to make the class better. Way to fail yet again Bioware.

I must agree, some sort of leap, charge or shadow step would be highly appreciated for the Assassin class. Even if they replaced Phase Walk with it or gave Phase Walk an alternative usage IE a Shadow Step to use in combo with Maul/Shadow Strike. It definitely fits the class, and would definitely be pretty bad*****. The additional mobility it would give is MUCH needed.

Mad Maul is a great hybrid build for PvE on live FYI.

I still don't understand why people in their dps specs don't grab Thrashing Blades and Charge Mastery. The 9% damage boost to Thrash and the bonus to accuracy and crit% is a definite yes in my book. Not by any means a waste of skill points. I have noticed in in many hybrid builds that was the case. And there are also those that say the damage increase in not significant enough and I have tried them both out and yes there IS indeed a generous damage boost. with both talents.

Pretentious much? Yes! Bull*****r!? Yes!

We shouldnt have to go 'Full' specs. The game was made so you can be fully customizable and still be viable provided your customization is legit and actually works. And by them taking away our 'Hybrids' they are taking away from customization thus the fun. nobody wants to run a run of the mill cookie cutter full spec and they need to deal with that by making the trees so they work with each other allowing for said customization.

I like your thought process, its practically the same build I put together for the 2.0 trees. My only question is why did you go without Thrashing Blades and Charge Mastery? Extra damage to Thrash and extra crit percentage is something I dont think anyone should say no to. In my opinion of course. Course there is that argument that the extra damage on Thrash is not worth it but in actuality it is. That extra 9% damage ti Thrash is noticeable and a bit considerable if you ask me. I have tried with and without and going without is definitely out of the question for me.

I really dont know what to add, you guys are all making valid points that I whole heartedly agree with especially considering how irked I am about them making hybrids completely shunned. Your pvp specs seem to be in order but I have seen nothing about PvE wise. This is the build I have constructed from the new trees trying to mimic something like the mad maul build. http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=002200000000000000000000000000000320230021110020000000000000000003022302012220010122000000000000&ver=20 I always say Thrashing Blades and Charge Mastery are a must in any build, it just makes since. Extra Crit%, armor pen, and damage reduction. Why wouldn't you want any of that in any of your builds regardless of what spec you are.

I agree with you guys but still, I am tired of seeing everything about assassins is about PvP. Not everyone PvP's maybe if you incorporate PvE and more damage output for that then you might get a bit more fanfare. Singling out PvP is definitely not the way to go.

Sorry about that, here you go. http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=002200000000000000000000000000000320230021110020000000000000000003022302012220010122000000000000&ver=20

Phase Walk usage out of stealth is going to be pretty nifty Probably going to be using this build. http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/

holy ****...im excited but...im a bit upset at the fact they are getting rid of the ability to properly implement the Deception / Madness hybrid I.E: Mad Maul....

Thank You and yes I have seen that, I think thats what I originally saw which inspired my 2nd talent build on actually using Surging Charge with the talent UK(Unearth Knowledge). Just wanted to see what other people thought and if it was worth the damage I was dealing with Trash and Maul.

points are dually noted. but i apologize if i haven't stated it earlier. I was speaking specifically for PvE. I dont know if that alters the answer but yes specifically for PvE. And yes Trash and maul damage is pretty phenomenal with both specs.

Ahh, alright. So pretty much go full deception or full madness for maximum dps? But what about UK? Isnt that a worthwhile talent?

1st - http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bMZfhbRzZcrcRrMkb.2 2nd - http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bcZfhMRzZfbcRrR0b.2 Here are my current build(s) : 4/14/23 - 5/14/22 The first one is one I found in the vastness of the interwebs and was described as a sustained burst using the damage bonus on maul from induction along with UK(Unearthed Knowledge) would not be a bad idea. Obviously using lightning charge and its discharge in order to proc Raze. Damage out put actually isnt that bad from what I have seen during my trial runs. Damage from Maul is outrageous while the constant ticking of your DoTs I realized this is indeed a "Sustained Bursty" build. Happy with the build I got a bit antsy with seeing surging charge sitting there on my skill bar and decided to modify the talents in order to use surging charge plus the 9% armor pen you get from charge mastery and made up the second one. I was thinking with the 9% armor pen, the crit damage bonus on Trash from Claws of Decay along with the UK(Unearthed Knowledge) buff it would hit a lot harder than Voltaic slash. My findings have been just as I had thought. Trash was hitting about 1.5k each strike and critting over 2.2k. Thoughts and opinions are welcome, I just thought I would share this and see what people think and or if anyone has even thought of these two builds. P.S. Old Raze would be wonderful EA I also dont remember where I saw the idea for the first build just FYI

Or if you plan on playing an assassin I would do the smart thing and ignore the fact Deception even exists. Darkness or Madness are your only choices.

I agree with you, cept I respeced Madness and I began having fun on my Assassin again LOL XD