A Summary of Increased Repair Cost Problems (for BW/EA)

[Hyfy]

I can only say that throwing a temper tantrum and holding your breath til you turn blue doesn't usually get much accomplished. Generally a more mature and rational approach works best.

 

You seem to be under this impression that speaking up at all is throwing a tantrum. Sorry Jack but you deem to miss the point. As a paying customer, as we all are here, it is not uncommon for someone to voice displeasure with a company and or their product and telling them if they don't get their act together then you are going to take yourself and your money elsewhere is NOT the equivelant of throwing a tantrum despite your narrow minded view.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Hyfy

[Vandicus]

No, just answer the question. What do you suggest we do to get Bioware to fix the problem?

 

Well I would try posting one's personal repair data pre and post 1.7 to try to narrow down what causes an exorbitant change in repair cost.

[tdgesq]

I can only say that throwing a temper tantrum and holding your breath til you turn blue doesn't usually get much accomplished. Generally a more mature and rational approach works best.

 

That's fine, then what do you suggest to get Bioware to fix the problem?

 

Isn't it the case Ratajack that you will defend whatever decision is made by the devs no matter how bad of an idea it is? I mean, even when you don't like it. That's what your position really is, correct? Let's just cut to the chase and get it out.

[dcgregorya]

They're not being penalized, they are merely now paying the same price as everyone else.

 

You keep saying this but it simply isn't true. Before, if you had any gear that took slotted items, you paid the base cost without the enhancements of the item. That applies to almost everyone wearing non-green gear. That's exactly the "fix" that went in for 1.2. From what I've seen, every one of my character's prices has gone up, regardless of whether they're wearing "stock" gear or customized, because every character I have has some form of gear that has slotted items (which you will, unless you wear green gear).

Edited February 17, 2013 by dcgregorya

[dcgregorya]

Then quit, because if you can't handle 10-30k credits, I'm sorry, you shouldn't be wearing that gear.

 

It's not like running the dailies one time a week will settle the bill for a week. Or that you make 400-600k from a run.

 

No, not at all.

 

Not sure where you're getting this from but as a tank without ever wiping my repair costs are coming out to 120-170k per raid.

 

It's clearly not 30-40k a week.

 

As for "how much grind is too much grind" - per planet it's around 110k for dailies. Each planet takes, with loading screens and travel time, about an hour. Even if you think that repair costs aren't a big deal, I'd find it a hard justification to make if someone said an hour raid should cost me an hour grind.

 

There is a right formula and this one is clearly too high.

[Ratajack]

You seem to be under this impression that speaking up at all is throwing a tantrum. Sorry Jack but you deem to miss the point. As a paying customer, as we all are here, it is not uncommon for someone to voice displeasure with a company and or their product and telling them if they don't get their act together then you are going to take yourself and your money elsewhere is NOT the equivelant of throwing a tantrum despite your narrow minded view.

 

It's all in the way you comport yourself. Speaking up in a mature manner is not throwing a temper tantrum. Demanding a roll back is not exactly a mature manner.

[Ratajack]

You keep saying this but it simply isn't true. Before, if you had any gear that took slotted items, you paid the base cost without the enhancements of the item. That applies to almost everyone wearing non-green gear. That's exactly the "fix" that went in for 1.2. From what I've seen, every one of my character's prices has gone up, regardless of whether they're wearing "stock" gear or customized, because every character I have has some form of gear that has slotted items (which you will, unless you wear green gear).

 

But it is true. Prior to 1.7, there were people in orange shells paying much less than those wearing the campaign shells even though they both were equipped with the same item modifications and augments.

[Hyfy]

It's all in the way you comport yourself. Speaking up in a mature manner is not throwing a temper tantrum. Demanding a roll back is not exactly a mature manner.

 

I don't see an issue with telling them you dont think they had the foresight to see this coming. Those of us asking for a change could be wrong too. Maybe they did see it coming and assessed that their loses would be acceptable. Time will tell but I will say with certainty, thus far their ability to avert these situations has been less than stellar.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Hyfy

[plundershot]

I just subscribed to this game the other day, I was F2P for about 2 weeks. So what's all this talk about losing people? People come and go, that's what they do in life and MMO's.

 

Come to think of it, this is what I don't play MMO's right when they come out. They always release them waaay to early. Their whole idea is to let you guys pay 65 bucks for the game, throw in a sub fee and then we'll make it F2P in a year.

 

I don't think I ever played an MMO where someone wasn't ************ about something in the fourms to devs or just other people in general. You just wont make everyone happy, Jesus was living proof of that.

 

Now for one of these cool faces I been itching to use

[Prabhunath]

... You just wont make everyone happy, Jesus was living proof of that.

 

Not a very good analogy since there hasn't been anything to suggest that Jesus ever existed, hence he couldn't be a living proof of anything.

[ivanhedgehog]

unlike real life MMO money doesn't have to be a subject to this type of inflation. because its still pixels. you don't raise the cost of pixels arbitrarily, why? because you don't have to. because supply is always artificial and always remains more constant then in real life. because pixel stuff is not subject to natural limits, only artificial ones.

 

when the price of gas goes up in real world? it goes up because its become harder to get, takes longer to transport, etc etc. it doesn't raise "just because" and guess what. in a good economy salaries rise with a price of gas to compensate, so the ratio of earning vs spending remains roughly the same. the fact that salaries right now are not raising as fast as prices, is one of the signs of depression. but unlike real life, MMO's do not have to be subject to same.

 

the fact that you are willing to put up with it, doesn't mean everyone else should. the fact that you are willing to waste your time on unpleasant activities and have less time remaining on pleasant ones - doesn't mean everyone else should or that its even a good thing to begin with.

 

this is not real life.

 

its

 

a

 

video

 

GAME

 

under his system, dailies should be rewarding you 2 to 3 times what they were previously.

[Chickensevil]

Who cares, it's fake money. What else are you going to use it for..

 

Something which makes me more productive, or makes my experience more enjoyable. Just because you may have everything you want in the game already with nothing else to spend your money on, doesnt mean everyone does.

 

There is a reason they are called vanity items...

 

Take away the ability to buy said items and you take away a lot of the flavor of the game... then by that notion, all money should be spent on repairs and credits should not be able to be spent on ANYTHING else. But that's not how it works. There are OTHER things to spend your money on, and I would argue that there are far more productive things to spend your money on. That 100k I spent on repairs could have gone toward purchasing something to make my character better, or look cooler, or EVEN help me to make MORE money... Repair is a sink with no reward... only punishment...

 

Oh you decided to participate in a progression raid? You Must Be Punished!

Oh you decided to go out questing and someone came up and ganked you? You Must Be Punished!

Oh you decided to get into combat? You Must Be Punished! (those action bars are actually meant to just look cool how dare you use them!)

[ivanhedgehog]

It's all in the way you comport yourself. Speaking up in a mature manner is not throwing a temper tantrum. Demanding a roll back is not exactly a mature manner.

 

you are confusing content with the method. asking for a roll back is just that..asking for a roll back. that is not a tantrum.Its not always what you say but how you say it. You might come to understand that one day.

[MikeTheDuke]

Though repairs cost a lot but have come down since some recent patches. I am certainly not of the view of not wanting new players to join me. If there is any guild, or group of players in gear high enough that wipes costs lost of cash, surely they are good enough to be able to pick up the slack of the new player.

 

Next I have 4 level 50 characters with a couple more on the way. The total cash pool of ALL my characters exceeds 4.5 million, maybe even 5 million credits. I have enough to cover wipes that are made. I am also a person who, if I am the one who is new especially to a hard mode I will help with the costs of the repairs, I put the offer in there and things are either accepted or rejected.

 

I can sure, the number of people "RAGE QUITTING" because of the costs of repairs in the raids is a minor thing. But the disparity between the PvE players and the PvP players in terms of costs.

 

To get good gear in PvP one must PvP, get Warzone Comms, then Ranked Warzone Comms and they can get the gear, dying doesn't cost anything in fixing the gear. But PvE, each time you wipe, unless it is a 0 damage wipe, you will incur a cost to repair. This is the main issue and needs to be addressed. NOT the cost or repairs. You either introduce a cost in PvP or close the gap.

[Exorabus]

I agree with the comments of the original poster.

1 more vote for lowering the "fixed" repair costs. Casual gamers will not be able to afford them and

this will encourage more hostility in the game between gamers.

[antiheroxi]

It's all in the way you comport yourself. Speaking up in a mature manner is not throwing a temper tantrum. Demanding a roll back is not exactly a mature manner.

 

Demanding a rollback for a patch that put a large stop to casual players enjoyment, players that pay the same amount as you, and are not willing to spend half their leisure time tediously running through mundane work is not a tantrum. its a logical step to take before no longer being a customer. just rage quiting and not giving the company a chance to redeem themselves, make right on the situation, etc would be immature and thats not what the majority of us are doing.

 

We are still here, hence why we are on the boards, but should nothing come around to change the situation we wont be. because a game should not be tedious work. yes you should have to do something to get something but in a game setting the tasks you perform to earn your rewards should be enjoyable. it is a game.

 

this current thought process that a game should mirror life to the point that it even has a literal life cycle of work equal to or exceeding your time enjoying yourself is whats wrong in the current generation of mmo's. just look at previous ones for guidance and timesink ideas.... older pve mmo's had their moments of boredom but 95 percent of the time guess what... the raids you went on, dungeons you crawled through, etc netted you items that supplemented your income enough that outside of vanity there was no reason to farm dailies. in fact dailies were not even around.... your farming was doing the content you supposedly were a fan of, or purchased the game for. whether that was the pvp in daoc, the raids in eq1, the scenarios in war, defending your nation in shadowbane, etc.

 

so get off your high horse that mmo's are all about work. they should be and have in the past been about having fun pushing to the things you want and enjoying the ride. not about doing busy work to get the opportunity to do the things you enjoy.

[BaronV]

Here's a different analogy for you:

 

would most people prefer to:

 

A) have costs lowered to the point at which they would only have to work only 1 hour a week to afford to do what they consider fun, and be able to spend more time doing the "fun" stuff

 

OR

 

B) have costs remain where they are and have to work 40 hours or more a week to be able to afford to do what they consider fun.

 

 

I thought so...cool.

 

without a doubt I choose (A) so whats your point? I fail to see the meaning in the "analogy"

[antiheroxi]

Though repairs cost a lot but have come down since some recent patches. I am certainly not of the view of not wanting new players to join me. If there is any guild, or group of players in gear high enough that wipes costs lost of cash, surely they are good enough to be able to pick up the slack of the new player.

 

Next I have 4 level 50 characters with a couple more on the way. The total cash pool of ALL my characters exceeds 4.5 million, maybe even 5 million credits. I have enough to cover wipes that are made. I am also a person who, if I am the one who is new especially to a hard mode I will help with the costs of the repairs, I put the offer in there and things are either accepted or rejected.

 

I can sure, the number of people "RAGE QUITTING" because of the costs of repairs in the raids is a minor thing. But the disparity between the PvE players and the PvP players in terms of costs.

 

To get good gear in PvP one must PvP, get Warzone Comms, then Ranked Warzone Comms and they can get the gear, dying doesn't cost anything in fixing the gear. But PvE, each time you wipe, unless it is a 0 damage wipe, you will incur a cost to repair. This is the main issue and needs to be addressed. NOT the cost or repairs. You either introduce a cost in PvP or close the gap.

 

Although there should be a penalty for dieing in pvp this game doesnt have a pvp system built for it. wz's are built for you to die a ton. if the pvp system was more open, with more robust ways of ensuring with skill you didnt die ala daoc, shadowbane,and that you just didnt spawn and 5 seconds later were slamming against the enemy again then i agree...

[BaronV]

I think we can agree that most people would prefer to do more of the "fun" stuff as opposed to working. However, the world, and MMO's do not work that way. Both require work, often tedious, boring work that provides no challenge, in order to be able to do the "fun" stuff.

 

Some people find leveling their 9th alt to be tedious and boring, since they have done all the quests previously, but they want to play that sniper in the endgame raids, so they buckle down and do the work to get that sniper to 50 and then gear him up. That's as much "work" for them as doing a few dailies one day to be able to afford to run that raid another day might be for someone else.

 

Before you say that the player leveling up his 9th alt has a definite goal, or purpose to work toward(having that new 50 to take to raids), so does anyone wanting to be able to afford the higher repair costs(being able to afford the higher repair costs).

 

except that grinding for credits to pay for repairs is a never ending cycle. "grinding" to level up your 9th alt (which is entirely your choosing btw) ends when you have reached your level 50 and target gear.

 

see the difference?

In the first case you have two choices - being forced to grind in order to play, or choosing not to play. (rinse and repeat)

 

In the second case - choosing to grind in order to reach your goal. or choosing not to level up a new character.

 

If you cant see the world of difference i dont know what else to say...

Edited February 17, 2013 by BaronV

[BaronV]

 

As long as it's easier to create money from nothing than to earn money through trading with other players then inflation will be rampant and hard to control. Raising repair costs won't remove money from the game, it will just force more people to create more money to accommodate the repair costs.

 

well said sir!

 

Printing money out of nothing results in inflation

 

noteable examples include Germany (1920s), & Zimbabwe (2000s).

 

No doubt reducing credit rewards will lead to an uproar, but judging by how Bioware has been ignoring other issues that lead to player uproar, i dont see why they can't just do this after giving people an appropriate explanation.

 

The real solutions often take a little more time to have an effect but tend to be more lasting.

Edited February 17, 2013 by BaronV

[BaronV]

Changed this for you. To me tedium is running the same FP's/OP's over and over again, one persons tedium does not equal everyone elses.

 

but you have the CHOICE not to run them if you dont want to. Unless you want the gear/loot rewards. But then you have a clear reason to do so and it is of your choosing.

 

I want to run regular FPs and ops but am prevented from doing so unless i run dailies to - despite the fact that I have the gear I want already! see the difference?

 

To knowingly subject one's self to tedium with the clear expectation of the rewards and knowing full well then one can stop once the goal has been reached is perfectly fine and is part and parcel of MMOs (and games in general)

 

To be forced into a hamster wheel where it is a never ending cycle of toiling for credits for hours in order to be able to have some occasional fun is downright ludicrous!

 

That is certainly not what games are supposed to be about - and is certainly not something Im prepared to accept considering the monthly subscription fee. There are many other more entertaining uses of what little free time I have - thus I have canceled my subscription.

[BaronV]

And we have see your worthless sentiment many times as well. believe it or not you have a vastly inexcusible ignorant view of what an entitled crowd is. Those asking for something for absolutely nothing in exchange yes you are right. But that is not what those are.. youre pathetically ill excused manors and hidiously assinine assumption towards other paying customers is a joke at best.

 

I pay to play a game that entertains me. im not asking for that game to be free, or a hand out. im a paying and valid customer no different then you.

 

I am also willing to work through content to get to the gear i want. also not asking for it to just be handed to me for logging in. but this is because i enjoy the crawl through dungeons. its entertaining to me and so its worth my EARNED money to spend on the game to work through those dungeons.

 

I am not willing to pay my EARNED money towards tediously dull and boring dailies that i do not find entertaining just to work through content i actually enjoy. i already did the work to do that (ie my real life job) and the grind through lvls to get there.

 

again not one part of my money to play the game was entitled... i work for a living

not one part of my lvling process was given.... i did the time

not one part of the push through regular, hm, nm etc was given to me.... i put the time in for it

 

but guess what all of that was fun and enjoyable. and not one bit was given or entitled.... The difference between you and me is i value my life, my time, and my money... meaning if i am spending money, and time on something then i want a positive return on it... ie enjoyable entertainment. thats not asking for handouts thats a given... in no other industry on the planet (except for maybe college) do we pay money and time to work. and yet you somehow find your pathetic attempt to call hard working people that pay their money and do the time to get to the content lazy for wanting to actually continue to enjoy what they paid for... rediuclous

 

CLAP CLAP CLAP

 

You sir get today's award for the most sensible post

[Raiders]

@Rata,

Devs are only "actively investigating" the matter.. they have not agreed on any new bug nor that repair cost is too high.

 

I for one only explained that whatever their conclusion, if the repair cost stay too high, they'll simply lose my subs fee.

We all understood that you're a great guys, nice little fanboy and while we're all lazy.

 

So don't stay here and go grind more money or go duo LI HM or whatever... com'on move now, don't stay here with lazy people.

[CrystalCat]

Just my two cents in this discussion, for what it's worth. I run a fairly new guild over on the Ebon Hawk Server, and we're only just now getting our "first batch" of 50s into the sort of gear that you can begin "progression" runs in. As a Guildmaster, I've been getting excited, as have many of my guildmates about doing this. These new repair costs have, quite frankly, just stopped us in our tracks. We haven't had a year of hardcore raiding at "low" costs to build up a big guildbank and personal bank accounts. Simply put... we just can't afford it.

 

We also have one member who, while a very good player, has a less than optimal computer, and has lag issues. He respectfully bowed out of our raids this week because he didn't want to cost us unnecessary credits. Still didn't mean it wasn't upsetting. I've been running with this guy for 4-5 months, and now, because of this, his ability to progress any further in the game has effectively been halted, and he's not going to be renewing his subscription when it expires next week. As he put it "what's the point?"

 

You essentially have two major types of gamers with subscriptions: the really hard core people who have the time to spend hours and hours on the game every day, and those who play casually, and don't have a problem with $15/month for a little fun. That first group of players is likely also the group that is willing to throw more real money bioware's way to pay for fake money in a game. The second... is likely what makes up the majority of their subscribers, which, less face it, is who bioware is going to care about because they get money from them. A lot of their playerbase is also, likely, students.

 

I'm about to become one again in starting my Masters Degree. I'm not going to have money to give to bioware beyond my subscription. To those people that have simply suggested this, I congratulate you for being in a point in your life where you can afford it. I, however, look at that extra cash as a much-needed pub night with the girls after exams, or a healthy meal instead of ramen cups. So for what will probably turn into one or two nights a week I get to actually play... I want to do the parts of the game that I enjoy - raids. I enjoy the social aspect of this game - getting into mumble with a bunch of my friends, and tossing the breeze while the Writhing Horror impregnates our tanks. My raiding used to fund itself, as well as letting me get to have some other fun on the GTN, I didn't make much money this week in my raids, and we weren't training anyone new to the raids.

 

I've seen some really negative things happening the last few days. I'm a BH/Campaign/DG/fully purple augmented geared Sage Healer on my main, so I was alright pugging a few flashpoints and supporting some folks in tionese gear while they try to gear up because I can heal what the mack truck-hitters want to dish out 98% of the time. I'm ok spending some cash to help a new/first-time 50s learn the ropes. It's not been so long for me since I first hit 50 that I've forgotten how confusing it was, and how suddenly one mistake = a costly bill. I met some good people who beared with me, and gave me some advice on how to get better. This kindness in game has practically disappeared between people who weren't already mates. I, too, have seen people drop from flash points, or vote to kick with reason of "Tionese, we'll wipe" as the reason. This didn't happen before (Outside of LI HM anyway). This new attitude can not be healthy for the game.

 

Where has the camaraderie gone? We're all Star Wars fans, we're all gamers. We all play this game for different reasons: some like pvp, some like raids, some like rp, some like a healthy mix. If bioware adjusts so that more creds drop in a run, I think that this adjusted repair bills can stay, but one of my guilds' main tanks that's geared like I am had a 40K repair bill after a single wipe... that entire op was no longer at all beneficial to them since they no longer needed to farm BH coms, and was in there because we're helping one of our new healers get geared up.

 

Bioware may have shot themselves in the foot with this patch.

 

Some have just argued that you should "just buck up and do what you're supposed to" or "spend more real money" (which I personally believe as the real reason that this "bug" was "fixed"). But I say to you, what's more important?

 

Grinding for credits vs Family Time/study time/work

Spending more real money vs Having a healthy meal/social time away form the internet

 

I watched a lot of really smart people flunk out of their undergrad because of WoW addictions because they needed to grind to afford the raid. Game designers need to stop and think about what's really important.

 

I won't pay tens of thousands for a masters course only to flunk out of it. If my raiding can't support itself, I'll probably dump my subscription, and since you can't raid as a F2P... that'll be the end of starwars for me.

 

I guess the moral of my ramble here is "less is more."

 

Bioware, this was rather bad timing - particularly right before a major game update with Rise of the Hutts. Are the few people that will actually give you more money worth the subscribers that will leave?

Edited February 17, 2013 by CrystalCat

[BaronV]

Do I enjoy it? No, but neither do I refuse to do it, unlike some others. That is the difference.

 

So you are willing to put in even more effort doing something you admit that you do not enjoy in order to enjoy what you are entitled to for your monthly subscription.

 

Good for you.

 

There comes a time that we all have to decide whether or not the money we pay every month, as well as the time and effort required exceeds the enjoyment that we get in return.

 

I have decided that with the exorbitant repair costs, it is no longer worth it for me to be paying $15 a month as the effort required exceeds the enjoyment I get in return.

 

We voice out because we ultimately LIKE and CARE about this game and WANT to continue to play it, but are not prepared to continue doing so when we no longer feel we are getting our time and money's worth.

 

It is MY money, MY time and ultimately MY DECISION.

 

So stop insulting and riding down those who feel the same way.