errant_knight Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 So, out-taunting a World Boss, regardless of how low or high HP and who established "ownership" (which is common courtesy, but, ultimately, not game mechanic), is against the TOS now... Out of curiosity... where does it say about mob ownership? Do you own said World Boss? Does the game give you ownership mechanics? Just plant a spy in their guild, learn about their WB schedules and grief the hell outta them back. Well....no. That would make the OP as bad as they are. Report them and speak openly about who they are. Other people need to know.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dainter Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I say report them and that's all you can really do. You could post the name here for others to see, but I am not sure that accomplishes anything either. It was a douche move and hopefully karma will bite them in the *****. Otherwise no punishment of not will be levied on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galadimana Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 It's not that difficult of a concept. "Don't be a ****." It's a commandment. Well, it was until Moses dropped that 3rd tablet. If being a **** makes a person happy, if being a **** gives a person a thrill, if it makes them feel important and respected, they need therapy, not a video game. It's called sociopathy. PvP is, well, in nearly all places, since the internet is an anonymous medium, is mostly a bunch of ****s trying to get over on either another bunch of ****s or an unsuspecting newbie. So, hey... the next time you go over to someone's house and they ask you to play checkers, or Monopoly, or Magic the Gathering, and you beat them, do it like PvP! Stand up and yell your superiority in their faces! Throw the game pieces/cards on the ground and stomp on them! Belittle their intellgence and question their ancestry! Denigrate every shred of their humanity, because hey, YOU are a WINNER and THEY are a LOSER, LOSER, LOSER! Let me now how that works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaDoc Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) This. And name them. This is the only way of dealing with such people. This is one of those instances where, Name and Shame should be allowed. This was completely unacceptable, people need to learn this is not X-BOX. MMO you have a reputation among other guilds as result of your actions. If I were in that guild and found what they did I would leave it. If the GM i would dismiss all members that instigated. I am a GM of two guilds. Rep and Imp, Personally I find these deplorable actions happen more often on the Imp side. I think this is just the mind set. But I suspect here that may not be the case, as evidenced by your sig. Edited February 13, 2013 by DakotaDoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galadimana Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (Oh yeah, this works best with someone who isn't family or a close friend. One of those groups might take your taunting as good-natured ribbing, when in fact you are asserting your superiority in every way as a human being over the pathetic attempt at existence that their occupation of space in an ugly bag of mostly water on this planet purports to be. Just to clarify.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) You have got to be kidding me. You are just attempting to justify a cycle of idiotic and terrible behavior. Anything not sucking it up and moving along is a cycle of idiotic and terrible behavior. We can argue all day long about levels of said cycles of idiotic and terrible behavior, but the fact still stands: you either do NOTHING, which includes not naming and shaming or reporting something that isn`t in the TOS, or you can try and strike where it hurts the most. tl;dr: reporting or naming and shaming IS a cycle of idiotic and terrible behavior, since it IS a reaction to their action. Might as well react properly and pay them in kind, with some extra, if possible. Well....no. That would make the OP as bad as they are. Report them and speak openly about who they are. Other people need to know.. He IS as bad as they are already, by being here, instead of taking the supposed "higher stance" and do precisely nothing. Might as well go all the way and make a full payment... __________________________________________ To clarify: they are wrong strictly from the random "online honor code", which has no bearing on the actual game. Each player believes whatever personal made up set of rules. From the TOS, or game`s point of view, they didn`t do anything wrong. Are they some griefers? Yes.. but nothing against the rules. There are only 2 ways to deal with this, IMO: 1. Do precisely nothing 2. Pay them in full, as I have shown in previous posts ... Edited February 13, 2013 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyThePenguin Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 He IS as bad as they are already, by being here, instead of taking the supposed "higher stance" and do precisely nothing. Might as well go all the way and make a full payment... I resent this comment! I didn't create this thread bearing any semblance of malice towards the offenders; I had created this thread to open up discussion on this type of behavior and what can be done to prevent it from happening or how best to deal with it when it does happen. Further, I don't intend to harass these people or even go so far as to "take revenge" on them. I'm not looking to punish them. I was simply frustrated by the whole ordeal and wanted to bring this topic to the forefront of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 So, let me ask you all, is this kind of behavior acceptable? From the game`s point of view, yes. From your point of view, no, as it interfered with your goals - the only recourse is to kill them where they stand. Is there any sort of recourse for victims of this behavior? I listed above: 1. Infiltrate their guild and grief their WB`s, by learning of their schedules 2. Get access to their bank and empty it, then inform them why it happened Or is it just "tough luck"? Who's in the wrong here? Nobody is in the wrong, since there are no written rules broken. If we judge by "unwritten rules", they are.. but we live in a too soft of a world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryRow Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 This what happens when you make a game mechanic where being polite and patient to another group inconveniences your own group (due to respawn time). When will Bioware learn to use more anti-griefer tools and/or instance their stupid world bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I resent this comment! I didn't create this thread bearing any semblance of malice towards the offenders; I had created this thread to open up discussion on this type of behavior and what can be done to prevent it from happening or how best to deal with it when it does happen. Further, I don't intend to harass these people or even go so far as to "take revenge" on them. I'm not looking to punish them. I was simply frustrated by the whole ordeal and wanted to bring this topic to the forefront of discussion. You created this topic to "vent". Also, there will never be a discussion... this game is made by carebears, for carebears... it doesn`t take a uni degree to foresee the resposes... 99% of them will say THEY are to be blamed. The best way to deal with it is to do it to them, or kill them where they stand for PvP servers... about 5000 times. Then 10000. Then put bounties on their heads for 6 months straight. For PvE is tricky, but I offered 2 ways of dealing with them... But claims this is against the TOS or naming and shaming means anything are... utopic... you should have known that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errant_knight Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I resent this comment! I didn't create this thread bearing any semblance of malice towards the offenders; I had created this thread to open up discussion on this type of behavior and what can be done to prevent it from happening or how best to deal with it when it does happen. Further, I don't intend to harass these people or even go so far as to "take revenge" on them. I'm not looking to punish them. I was simply frustrated by the whole ordeal and wanted to bring this topic to the forefront of discussion. Don't worry yourself over one poster who appears to be if the same ilk as those who caused the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyThePenguin Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 You created this topic to "vent". Also, there will never be a discussion... this game is made by carebears, for carebears... it doesn`t take a uni degree to foresee the resposes... 99% of them will say THEY are to be blamed. The best way to deal with it is to do it to them, or kill them where they stand for PvP servers... about 5000 times. Then 10000. Then put bounties on their heads for 6 months straight. For PvE is tricky, but I offered 2 ways of dealing with them... But claims this is against the TOS or naming and shaming means anything are... utopic... you should have known that... I never claimed that this kind of griefing was against the TOS (Actually, I agree with you on this point. Jerk move? Absolutely. Against the rules? Probably not) nor did I suggest that the name and shame game would be the best outcome. You offered 2 solutions, but neither would be terribly effective and would only create more problems (or ignore them) than they would solve, I believe. But your 2 solutions are far from the only viable options. Thus, this thread was created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryklone Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Yes, it was wrong. Message the game's guild guy (if they stll have one) not to shame/punish this particular guld but to point out the issue exists to a game employee. Also message the designer of such encounters. Forum behavior has some standards; so does some game behavior. Ruling/reporting on each issue case-by-case won't solve a thing: Instancing the boss prevents such things from happening again. For those who think the only solution to rude behavior is to be rude back, they really miss the whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Infiltrate them with at least 2 goals: 1. Short term - learn their WB schedules and grief them as often as you can 2. Long term - get one of your alts to guild bank rights and clear it the second you get it, then tell them why... this would be a nice lesson... Ever hear the phrase..."two wrongs don't make a right"? What the offending did was bad. What you are suggesting is even worse. Doing what you are suggesting risks ban-for-life. That being said, I am in agreement with the general consensus here - report them in a CS ticket and tell as many as you can that the guild in question is not to be trusted. One nice thing about no cross-server stuff is that they will get a reputation eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 For those who think the only solution to rude behavior is to be rude back, they really miss the whole point. And what is the whole point, exactly? The way I see it, you either choose to respond, or you don`t. If you do respond, here are possible recourses: 1. Name and shame - you can`t do it on Forums, since it is against the rules of conduct, so you have to do it ingame - which can easily be countered by "Oh, he be just tryin` to badmouth our guild`s name, cos he didn`t make the cut" 2. Report to Bioware - not in the TOS, so nothing will be done 3. Report to guild leader - which, on paper, is one solution; but I doubt said guild leader will kick anyone or say anything more than "hey, Player Xxxx.. naughty naughty boy... don`t do it again, at least not today...". If they did it, chances are at least one officer was present - so you won`t solve anything. 4. Speaking openly about who they are.. well... I see about 10 such talks each day... I learned not to pay attention anymore, because there be trolls around... If you choose not to respond, well... then all of this is for naught... So, I ask you.. what IS the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollokdamus Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 This may have already been said, but still. All 8 of you who were part of an ops group should write a ticket about this accident. I'm pretty sure what the other guild did can be considered as using an exploit or at least an unintended game mechanic in order to disrupt your playing experience. Here is a quote from terms of conduct: Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players. When your own faction, while not in FFA zone, continuously taunts your tagged mob away in order to reset it, so they can claim it for themselves, it's pretty much "misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics with the intention of distressing and offending other players" in my eyes. So i think you may have a chance to legally punish the offenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Ever hear the phrase..."two wrongs don't make a right"? What the offending did was bad. What you are suggesting is even worse. Doing what you are suggesting risks ban-for-life. Ban for life for what? For showing up and aggro and out-DPS a WB, seconds before a guild set up? This happens everyday... And empty the guild bank is not a crime.. it`s stupidity from the guild`s leadership, for not setting daily limits, or for giving rights... Don`t mistake Forum barking by various individuals for gospel. Plenty of folks will twist and turn various texts to suit their need, but, ultimately, if it isn`t written in the TOS.. it doesn`t exist. And aggro a mob, be it a WB as it is, or withdrawing a full daily quota within 5 seconds.. is not in it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Ban for life for what? For showing up and aggro and out-DPS a WB, seconds before a guild set up? This happens everyday... And empty the guild bank is not a crime.. it`s stupidity from the guild`s leadership, for not setting daily limits, or for giving rights... Don`t mistake Forum barking by various individuals for gospel. Plenty of folks will twist and turn various texts to suit their need, but, ultimately, if it isn`t written in the TOS.. it doesn`t exist. And aggro a mob, be it a WB as it is, or withdrawing a full daily quota within 5 seconds.. is not in it... banned for life for stealing out of the guild vault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) banned for life for stealing out of the guild vault. Where does it say in the TOS that stealing from the guild vault is a bannable offence, or a offence at all? Edited February 13, 2013 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosielink Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Your first step should be to report them to the Leader of their guild. If you find out s/he was one of them, or s/he doesn't care about it, then you can start naming them. A CS ticket from your group would be a good way to get a "paper" trail going on them, so that if they get enough complains they might do something to them from an official standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alavastre Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think you should at least name the guild and the server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaDoc Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) Our 4 man group had to change instances on illum 4 times to finish the PVP area part of the event. Really sad, we would go to turn in the orbes and almost every instance had a much larger group (16+) doing nothing but grieving players as they were in the process of turning in the orbes. You would click on the item to start turn in and get attacked. That is all they were doing, why. What joy or satisfaction did they get other than making other players mad. You would die and have to go get orbes again , rinse-repeat. Edited February 13, 2013 by DakotaDoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Well OP, as you know, this has happened in other MMOs and I was hopeful we wouldn't see it here. But... there are always a few bad eggs that will stink up the place. But no, it's not acceptable and it is reportable. You are being very diplomatic in your approach and I can respect that. No need for further drama, but report them. They may not change their ways but a few more offenses and maybe you won't see the offending parties for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Name them- they sound like complete ****, and if they were on my server I'd want to know so I can get the guilds I know to ruin their day, from now on. There's a lot of douchebag moves you can use- but that's extremely cheap- waiting for you to almost kill the boss then deciding to exploit to reset him? Report them for exploiting, let people know what they did- grief their guild back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryklone Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) And what is the whole point, exactly? [/Quote] To not do bad behavior in an attempt to stop bad behavior. The way I see it, you either choose to respond, or you don`t. But there are more than one group to respond or don't respond to. We both don't see responding to the offenders as having an effect (although I don't see harm in trying, we could be wrong). That's why instead I suggested informing several devs. If, as you say, the action doesn't violate current TOS (which is debatable) the devs could decide to either change TOS, instance bosses in such cases, or another solution which I'm too tired or too uninformed to consider. Enjoy your evening. Edited February 13, 2013 by Stryklone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts