enigmacypher Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 He raises a valid point. They should give out invites by random rather than allocating them to those who pre-ordered in july first. At the end of the day, everyone pays the same price. i can agree and disagree since i can see your point to this but the rule of it going in order as to when it was ordered was in effect from the beginning (which is different from some of the other issues that were caused by later changes) there is also the point that everyone pays the same BUT if it was random you would then have people upset that they think that the random was "fixed" for whatever reason. FYI though i am showing as a 2009 person i do not have access yet as i did not pre order before the beginning of November due to cost and money constraints (before someone says i am in which is why i am defending it) as i have said though before there are still going to be issues since you also have the people that will start on the next new server so they can be first to max or else so they can always be sure that "their" name choice is never used by anyone else shrug i for one just don't care and shall leave the forums before they become more toxic than they already are.. GL all maybe i will play and see you in game or maybe not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldan Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Well no because a random selection is exactly that, random. There is no advantages or disadvantages. Only a ****** would deem a random selection unfair. I agere i wouldn't say a random draw would've been unfair, but i think first come first serve is even better (and no i'm not in, redeemed my code 4 days ago *cry). But we all know if they did a random draw there'd be just as many people whining if not more, only difference is it might be different ppl lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dainster Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Didn't Bioware say they raise the amount of invites day by day? So basically today 10, tomorrow 20, next 40 etc etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wynman Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Question, is anyone in bioware even going to see this anyway? What's the point in a bunch of people in forums complaining to people in forums, complaining at people complaining in forums, and complaining about people complaining about the people complaining in forums? It's not gonna do anything -_- Even if Bioware (not EA, cause EA BLOOOOWS) were to check these, does anyone thing the complaints would have any effect on the release? Personally, I disagree with the way they did this, only because of how little information I received. But complaining about it, doesn't change anything if no one's REALLY listening. And when you're flaming/trolling each other, the fights don't count as listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunblades Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Because some people don't understand the concept of waiting in line for something without crying? Personally if the line is long I'll come back later. or spend the extra $$$ and buy the speed pass. I wish there was a Speed Pass for accessing this game. I'd gladdly pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldan Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Agreed. Get Lost & 3 (Your IQ) actully lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokivoid Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Actually, no, there will be one more wave. "Another batch of emails has gone out. Good news, this one was a bonus wave, we still have one more to go today!" Twitter feed "The final wave of emails have been sent. We will be sending another wave tomorrow starting at 8am CST." Post was made at 1PM Central, That was wave five (what they claimed as a "bonus" wave). There will be no more additional waves today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaedalEVE Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Just wanted to let people know that I got my invite at 2:33pm (EST) today, and my pre-order date was on 7/27. So figure the waves that went out today included at least the first week of pre-orders. I guess you can expect at least another week of preorders tomorrow, if not more. Hope everyone else gets theirs soon. *hugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlhaas Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 It's unforeseen because they didn't KNOW it was going to happen. It's something to expect but that doesn't mean you're clairvoyant..just prepared. They prepared by doing the EGA release in a completely different way. That seems like some pretty damn good planning and it also seems to be working. It's a very well thought out system and removes most of the major issues with a massive launch. unforeseen [ˌʌnfɔːˈsiːn] adj not seen or known beforehand; unanticipated So umm...no. Wait queues and crashes and bugs wouldn't be unanticipated or unexpected in the least, sorry. They didn't plan the EGA to prevent these issues, they planned the EGA to garner way more early pre-orders and handle ACTUAL unforeseen circumstances without looking foolish on actual launch day. Good planning, sure. 'Massive launch', once again..ummmmm no. Massive would be the exact opposite word used in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthnc Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Personally if the line is long I'll come back later. or spend the extra $$$ and buy the speed pass. I wish there was a Speed Pass for accessing this game. I'd gladdly pay. There is a speed pass. It's called preorder. It puts money in their pockets with nothing in your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevzo Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Copied this from another thread which was randomly closed... why? Agree with it completely Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid Hey everyone. Hello Stephen Reid! Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid We absolutely understand you want to get in and play the game early. It's one of the reasons we expanded our Early Game Access from a maximum of five days to a maximum of seven days. However, there are a couple of important points to realize about today's opening salvo of invites, and the procedure in general for Early Game Access and launch. Thank you very much for this bit of information. It assures me that BioWare at least cares about customer relations. I personally do not blame BioWare for this fiasco, as it wreaks of EA tampering. So, let me being this post by saying that I respect BioWare and I love your product. No matter what happens, I will continue to wait and I will play this game for a long time to come. However, you must know how this feels for your customers; and that is the point of this thread. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid First, Early Game Access and launch is not supposed to be a stress test. In our previous Beta Testing Weekends we got up to very large concurrent number of players and brought invites into the game at a very high rate. That was done to stress test every aspect of our systems and servers, and essentially to see if they broke. In some cases, they did, but that helped us improve for launch. You are absolutely correct in saying that Launch is not about stress testing. Early Access is a launch event as the majority of people who will play this game on December 20th have pre-ordered. As such, I believe that it is important to understand that since this is a launch event, the servers should have been prepared appropriately for a larger number of concurrent users; enough to provide for the demand. The hesitation to open the servers up to more players is a clear indication of lack of confidence, and that makes me nervous as well. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid For us, launch isn't just about stuffing our servers with as many people as possible. As anyone who's been through a large MMO launch can tell you, that experience can be painful. Our aim with this launch was to ramp things up gradually, to spread our player population out amongst a variety of servers, to maintain all server types, and to keep queuing to a minimum (although we expect that to happen as we head towards December 20th). So far, all that has been successful for us on Day One. Again, you are correct Stephen; launch is not about stuffing your servers with as many people as possible. It is about making your product available to ALL of your customers. I have been through 7 different AAA MMORPG releases since 1995. I understand the pains and frustrations associated with launching an MMORPG. However, I can say with confidence that this is by far the most tortuous MMORPG launch I have ever been through. As of this moment, 40 of my guild mates are in the game. They are leveling up and accomplishing quests. They will take down the world boss in Coruscant tonight, or early tomorrow morning; and I will not be able to join them in this. More than likely, I never will have enough guild members to take down that boss from now until SW:TOR closes its doors to customers. This has cost me a significant amount of potential enjoyment with your product because I won't be able to do it with my friends. I understand that you may want to reward your players with early access; and I think that this is a great idea. However, the method in which you are doing this is creating the feeling of entitlement - and entitlement based treatment. You are more than welcome to reward us for making a commitment to your game; and all of us have made an equal commitment. However, you want to reward us, reward all of us, or none of us at all. Otherwise, you are going alienate your customer base. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid The second thing to realize is scale. We invited more people to play Star Wars: The Old Republic today than many other MMO launches manage in their entire head-start process. As I mentioned earlier today, when we opened pre-orders we had a huge spike in numbers - far more than most MMOs capture at launch. That was the initial rush. After that, our pre-orders settled down. Stephen, I don't care about other MMORPG launches. I care about SW:TOR's launch, and creating an appropriate opportunity for the game's customers to gain access to the product. You had a metric to base demand off of since July. There is is no excuse for not being ready. As such - this entire paragraph is nothing more than a lame excuse, and your customers see right through that. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid What this means is that tomorrow, you'll effectively start to see the pre-order timeline expand. You'll see people who have pre-ordered later than July getting invites. The day after that, more people will be invited. We're actually planning to invite more tomorrow than today, and invite the same number again on Thursday - at which point we'll be into the original 'five days of Early Game Access'. Stephen, this doesn't reassure your customers in the slightest. Getting invited tomorrow, or Thursday doesn't fix this problem. In fact, that is exactly what the problem is. This entire process has been deplorable to say the least; and holding the carrot on the stick in front of us tortuous to people who have pre-ordered months in advance, including myself. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid Last thing. Why aren't we continuing to send waves over time? Two main reasons - one, because we need to see that the servers are maintaining stability over time; adding a lot of players in a short period (in other words, stress testing) can cause stability issues. But wait a second, you said that launch and early access is NOT a stress test. Why is it that you are intentionally stress testing during a Launch event? You have had over five months to prepare, and appropriately develop your servers to accommodate the obvious massive demand for this game. Once again, this reads like a very lame excuse, and you contradict yourself from the second paragraph. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid Two, our plan is to continue to add servers - but carefully, and in response to demand. We need to monitor that demand and role out servers accordingly. A long-term recipe for MMO failure is to add a lot of servers early on, and then when population decreases, have to close those servers and merge them together. Two points on this paragraph. This event is not helping you balance your server populations. Over 90% of those who pre-ordered aren't able to access the game, and your server lists read as, "Full." I understand that the population limits on each server are limited to encourage load balancing, but this is doing nothing more than limiting population when all players are able to connect. You can achieve the same results by queuing players who are actively able to play. This system has created an artificial queue, one that is not based on log in attempt time, but based on pre-order date. Instead of going through the frustration of waiting through a 1 - 2 hour queue, we must go through the frustration of going through a 1 - 3 day freeze on any and all access to the server. We are still in a queue, the largest and most deplorable queuing system ever deployed by any game in history. This isn't an exaggeration, its the truth. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid Our aim is for Star Wars: The Old Republic to be around for a long time to come. Today's just the first step in that - an early step, too - and we'll be running smoothly, with a stable population, before too long. Stephen, at what cost is coming from this expense? To be honest, you are hurting your customers more with this scheme than a traditional MMORPG launch could ever hurt them. I believe that more people will quit because of this, than what would have happened if you decided to take a more traditional approach. You have taught your customers to distrust you, and to be nervous about server stability. Your customers expect some hiccups during a massive launch. Your customers expect queues, and would prefer them to what we have now. With queues we have the hope of playing after waiting for 1 - 2 hours. Now, we have absolutely no hope whatsoever of getting into the game for at least another 16 hours. This success that you mention may be nice for the players who are in now. But, for the majority of your customers, this success came at too great of a cost. Please reconsider your invitation process and make this right. Edited December 13, 2011 by Nevzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrAidennwitz Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Personally, I disagree with the way they did this, only because of how little information I received. But complaining about it, doesn't change anything if no one's REALLY listening. And when you're flaming/trolling each other, the fights don't count as listening. I think they're listening, they just chose to ignore it. I wouldn't listen to a bunch of whiny kids too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecanis Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 People are dumb today Messages from 2 hours ago are being posted as news and than people react to that news with even crazier ****. lol hehe ...10 years ago this would have been a rediculous statement. Instant information is killing my mosey thru life ...daggummit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hordequester Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Twitter feed "The final wave of emails have been sent. We will be sending another wave tomorrow starting at 8am CST." Post was made at 1PM Central, That was wave five (what they claimed as a "bonus" wave). There will be no more additional waves todayThe bonus wave came BEFORE the last wave. The last wave was not the bonus one. It says that in the previous tweet. Reading ftw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldan Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 There is a speed pass. It's called preorder. It puts money in their pockets with nothing in your hands. Peoples choice to do it though, they offered a pre order ppl took it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kehveli Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 What a completely horrible launch day... Don't give me some BS about the 20th being launch, anyone who wanted the game pre-ordered already. /facepalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuriZap Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think they're listening, they just chose to ignore it. I wouldn't listen to a bunch of whiny kids too. Assumptions and namecalling......Probably can't flag you, because you are protecting BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmbn Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Read this. The OP have a realy good post. Thread closed by BW: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=9124&page=13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RendoKarn Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Copied this from another thread which was randomly closed... why? Agree with it completely Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid Hey everyone. Hello Stephen Reid! Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid We absolutely understand you want to get in and play the game early. It's one of the reasons we expanded our Early Game Access from a maximum of five days to a maximum of seven days. However, there are a couple of important points to realize about today's opening salvo of invites, and the procedure in general for Early Game Access and launch. Thank you very much for this bit of information. It assures me that BioWare at least cares about customer relations. I personally do not blame BioWare for this fiasco, as it wreaks of EA tampering. So, let me being this post by saying that I respect BioWare and I love your product. No matter what happens, I will continue to wait and I will play this game for a long time to come. However, you must know how this feels for your customers; and that is the point of this thread. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid First, Early Game Access and launch is not supposed to be a stress test. In our previous Beta Testing Weekends we got up to very large concurrent number of players and brought invites into the game at a very high rate. That was done to stress test every aspect of our systems and servers, and essentially to see if they broke. In some cases, they did, but that helped us improve for launch. You are absolutely correct in saying that Launch is not about stress testing. Early Access is a launch event as the majority of people who will play this game on December 20th have pre-ordered. As such, I believe that it is important to understand that since this is a launch event, the servers should have been prepared appropriately for a larger number of concurrent users; enough to provide for the demand. The hesitation to open the servers up to more players is a clear indication of lack of confidence, and that makes me nervous as well. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid For us, launch isn't just about stuffing our servers with as many people as possible. As anyone who's been through a large MMO launch can tell you, that experience can be painful. Our aim with this launch was to ramp things up gradually, to spread our player population out amongst a variety of servers, to maintain all server types, and to keep queuing to a minimum (although we expect that to happen as we head towards December 20th). So far, all that has been successful for us on Day One. Again, you are correct Stephen; launch is not about stuffing your servers with as many people as possible. It is about making your product available to ALL of your customers. I have been through 7 different AAA MMORPG releases since 1995. I understand the pains and frustrations associated with launching an MMORPG. However, I can say with confidence that this is by far the most tortuous MMORPG launch I have ever been through. As of this moment, 40 of my guild mates are in the game. They are leveling up and accomplishing quests. They will take down the world boss in Coruscant tonight, or early tomorrow morning; and I will not be able to join them in this. More than likely, I never will have enough guild members to take down that boss from now until SW:TOR closes its doors to customers. This has cost me a significant amount of potential enjoyment with your product because I won't be able to do it with my friends. I understand that you may want to reward your players with early access; and I think that this is a great idea. However, the method in which you are doing this is creating the feeling of entitlement - and entitlement based treatment. You are more than welcome to reward us for making a commitment to your game; and all of us have made an equal commitment. However, you want to reward us, reward all of us, or none of us at all. Otherwise, you are going alienate your customer base. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid The second thing to realize is scale. We invited more people to play Star Wars: The Old Republic today than many other MMO launches manage in their entire head-start process. As I mentioned earlier today, when we opened pre-orders we had a huge spike in numbers - far more than most MMOs capture at launch. That was the initial rush. After that, our pre-orders settled down. Stephen, I don't care about other MMORPG launches. I care about SW:TOR's launch, and creating an appropriate opportunity for the game's customers to gain access to the product. You had a metric to base demand off of since July. There is is no excuse for not being ready. As such - this entire paragraph is nothing more than a lame excuse, and your customers see right through that. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid What this means is that tomorrow, you'll effectively start to see the pre-order timeline expand. You'll see people who have pre-ordered later than July getting invites. The day after that, more people will be invited. We're actually planning to invite more tomorrow than today, and invite the same number again on Thursday - at which point we'll be into the original 'five days of Early Game Access'. Stephen, this doesn't reassure your customers in the slightest. Getting invited tomorrow, or Thursday doesn't fix this problem. In fact, that is exactly what the problem is. This entire process has been deplorable to say the least; and holding the carrot on the stick in front of us tortuous to people who have pre-ordered months in advance, including myself. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid Last thing. Why aren't we continuing to send waves over time? Two main reasons - one, because we need to see that the servers are maintaining stability over time; adding a lot of players in a short period (in other words, stress testing) can cause stability issues. But wait a second, you said that launch and early access is NOT a stress test. Why is it that you are intentionally stress testing during a Launch event? You have had over five months to prepare, and appropriately develop your servers to accommodate the obvious massive demand for this game. Once again, this reads like a very lame excuse, and you contradict yourself from the second paragraph. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid Two, our plan is to continue to add servers - but carefully, and in response to demand. We need to monitor that demand and role out servers accordingly. A long-term recipe for MMO failure is to add a lot of servers early on, and then when population decreases, have to close those servers and merge them together. Two points on this paragraph. This event is not helping you balance your server populations. Over 90% of those who pre-ordered aren't able to access the game, and your server lists read as, "Full." I understand that the population limits on each server are limited to encourage load balancing, but this is doing nothing more than limiting population when all players are able to connect. You can achieve the same results by queuing players who are actively able to play. This system has created an artificial queue, one that is not based on log in attempt time, but based on pre-order date. Instead of going through the frustration of waiting through a 1 - 2 hour queue, we must go through the frustration of going through a 1 - 3 day freeze on any and all access to the server. We are still in a queue, the largest and most deplorable queuing system ever deployed by any game in history. This isn't an exaggeration, its the truth. Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid Our aim is for Star Wars: The Old Republic to be around for a long time to come. Today's just the first step in that - an early step, too - and we'll be running smoothly, with a stable population, before too long. Stephen, at what cost is coming from this expense? To be honest, you are hurting your customers more with this scheme than a traditional MMORPG launch could ever hurt them. I believe that more people will quit because of this, than what would have happened if you decided to take a more traditional approach. You have taught your customers to distrust you, and to be nervous about server stability. Your customers expect some hiccups during a massive launch. Your customers expect queues, and would prefer them to what we have now. With queues we have the hope of playing after waiting for 1 - 2 hours. Now, we have absolutely no hope whatsoever of getting into the game for at least another 16 hours. This success that you mention may be nice for the players who are in now. But, for the majority of your customers, this success came at too great of a cost. Please reconsider your invitation process and make this right. Perfect post and very articulate, thank you sir, you are a valued member of the SWTOR community being jibbed like all the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldan Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Assumptions and namecalling......Probably can't flag you, because you are protecting BW. Namecalling... *cry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LangesTowem Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Did not get in, which is no real surprise. Though, I will say that Stephen Reid's face is looking more like trollface.jpg the longer I wait. http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1165810941/me-sq.jpg http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/096/044/trollface.jpg?1296494117 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehrikard Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Read this. The OP have a realy good post. Thread closed by BW: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=9124&page=13 SERIOUSLY? You close that amazing post FOR THIS ONE? Christ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KypDurrron Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Respam to 600+ pages quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmacypher Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Twitter feed "The final wave of emails have been sent. We will be sending another wave tomorrow starting at 8am CST." Post was made at 1PM Central, That was wave five (what they claimed as a "bonus" wave). There will be no more additional waves today ok i fear i didn't leave the toxic dumb of a forum yet <and this is for both sides of the arguments> and this one made me think i should go retrain as i for one never got less than 12 hour days in December before the holidays as things have to get done' you can say that it is ok because they have been working really hard but the race is not even half way over yet (MMOs are a marathon not a foot race) my curiosity is though whether they will all go away for the holidays and find the game crashed on day 2 but was still down till new year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozor Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Basically this whole Early Acces is just an event to test server's stability over longer periods of time. Something that SHOULD HAVE been done a long time ago. Absolute failure of a launch, flawed in its very concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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