R.A.W Season 1

[rickochey]

Also to the teams that haven't paid the entrance fee, it would be nice if you would From my understanding only Legit has so far :S

[Novarium]

Both games on Thursday are new match ups! And depending on what happens with Legit/Ewok we could see an Ewok v BOSS matchup the following week.

 

Even if we'd gone with a Top 6 finals series, eliminating the 7th and 8th ranked teams as Bobcowz suggested (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_six_play-offs) Pandemic and Core(2) would have matched up in the first round of finals!

 

I understand what your saying, But your in two minds. This tournament is either a proper tournament where everything should be structured properly including how teams rank who the play percentage etc.. or it is a fun community event in which it does not matter the ranking as long as teams get the opportunity to play a variety of team (we thought it would be option 2) but basically its like you have taken some hardcore tournament stances but made other things a community event its like your caught in 2 minds here. We want one option or the other. we are fine with playing Core1 but i think the community would benefit from matches that have not been played.. a lot of imp faction want to see a boss/pandemic match and a core2/legit match. As i said we are fine with playing Core 1 but you have handed Core 2 our entire hand now they get to decide what cards from they want to take.. we dot have that luxury quite simply we have 7-8 players so they have seen everything.. And the way esky handled my concerns tonight was down right arrogant and rude.. calling us unsportsmanlike, saying we want a dream run, saying we have 2 days to come up with set plays.. please those things take weeks/months to perfect. Clearly we knew before we entered this tournament that Core/Ewok were more then likely going to win and sure Pandemic have played really well and im happy about that.. But realistically our PVE team are just simply not at the same standard as those Guilds and thats something we understand and we are ok about.. but we would to verse other guilds to get a realistic view of where we rank on this server (that was why we entered)

[MouldyCrow]

 

1: THE DC RULE

 

 

Here's my solution: use your bloody common sense!

 

-If a someone disconnects on a civil war at 530/530 and its one node each with a stalemate at mid - restart the game.

-If a someone disconnects from a huttball when his team is 1-0 up - restart the game.

-If someone disconnects before the gates have even opened - restart the game.

-If one team has excessive disconnects through the night then maybe say, this is the last disconnect guys.

 

You've mostly got it right so far but now decided to overreact because of the way BOSS' game played out last week.

 

It's really not that tough, we have guys that go to great lengths to play in this thing. Unfit as I understand it trudges around different crib rooms in the coal mine he works at looking for a solid connection before the games. The problem as I see it is more that Fresk and Icesis really don't understand the game at a level where they are comfortable making these kind of decisions. Maybe you should put the decision back into the hands of the players?

[Obirayy]

I understand what your saying, But your in two minds. This tournament is either a proper tournament where everything should be structured properly including how teams rank who the play percentage etc.. or it is a fun community event in which it does not matter the ranking as long as teams get the opportunity to play a variety of team (we thought it would be option 2) but basically its like you have taken some hardcore tournament stances but made other things a community event its like your caught in 2 minds here. We want one option or the other. we are fine with playing Core1 but i think the community would benefit from matches that have not been played.. a lot of imp faction want to see a boss/pandemic match and a core2/legit match. As i said we are fine with playing Core 1 but you have handed Core 2 our entire hand now they get to decide what cards from they want to take.. we dot have that luxury quite simply we have 7-8 players so they have seen everything.. And the way esky handled my concerns tonight was down right arrogant and rude.. calling us unsportsmanlike, saying we want a dream run, saying we have 2 days to come up with set plays.. please those things take weeks/months to perfect. Clearly we knew before we entered this tournament that Core/Ewok were more then likely going to win and sure Pandemic have played really well and im happy about that.. But realistically our PVE team are just simply not at the same standard as those Guilds and thats something we understand and we are ok about.. but we would to verse other guilds to get a realistic view of where we rank on this server (that was why we entered)

 

everything esky said sounds about right... you are trying to get a dream run by complaining to change the match ups, you are raging and attacking the officals on the forums about the rankings which are not variable because they are sorted by amount of wins and losses which is just unsportsmanlike.

 

if you want to verse other guild then setup your own ranked matches in your own time, we wanted to verse black sun to replace the wookie leaks game so we just queued up with them. this is a tournament they theyve setup.

 

i couldnt imagine you having a team in any real sport lol

[Novarium]

Xavier / Terminus / Cattaa

 

From what you’ve been posting tonight, it seems you have two major concerns going forward.

1: The new disconnect rule is unfair/too harsh.

2: The finals draw is not structured properly, thus disadvantaging Pandemic and forcing you to play Core(2) again.

 

Hopefully the below will adequately address both these concerns.

 

1: THE DC RULE

 

There is no sure way for either EsKy or myself to determine which team has a clear advantage in a WZ when a DC happens. And a ‘clear advantage’ is the key phrase. As we saw last week, 45 minutes was wasted trying to get games going in between disconnects.

 

It’s not just a simple matter of having a rule for resetting as there is the added wait time in between while players reconnect, then the added time of Bioware deciding that two teams queued for ranked still wont start the damn game. The rule needs to account for this as well.

 

Chatting to Winspec tonight and hearing his suggestions was great and it brought some other ideas to the table. Perhaps there’s a way we can determine that after a specific amount of time into a game (20 seconds / 30 seconds) that it could be reset should a dc happen.

The issue is that there is no obvious solution and it’s something we need to think about. Until then, EsKy and I will run with what we have. If you’ve got suggestions or ideas – please post them here, I’ll happily look at it.

 

2: THE DRAW

 

I hadn’t anticipated tied teams and did not have a dedicated percentages method for separating them. Being a casual tournament I did not think anyone would mind us separating the teams the way we have. A few teams voiced opinions about how to proceed next time but none have taken serious issue, until tonight when you posted here.

 

The best statistics I have from each of the matches are the medal count, and so I have spent the last few hours trawling through every match played by Pandemic and Legit/The Moist and noting down every medal earned.

I then tallied them and found the average medals attributed to both guilds – per match.

 

To be fair and ensure the order of the bracket, I did the same for Core(1) and Ewok.

As it stands, based on these statistics alongside the win/loss ratio for the games the top four placement remains the same:

Core(1)

Ewok’alypse Now

Legit

Pandemic

 

As with the WZ DC issue, I will gladly look at other percentages and methods for separating teams in the future. Suggestions are welcome.

 

 

I’m a fan of every team that is playing in this tournament and appreciative to every single player that commits, be it for one match or every week. When you make statements about us not doing right by you as a team, you insinuate that we are actively trying to disadvantage you in some way and that's wrong.

 

Trolling for fun (I’m looking at you Meds) I get. If you’ve got legitimate concerns, post it, email it, pst me in game – I will listen, but please be respectful.

 

Sorry Obi,

 

I dont think you understand, Im not like the players who play for me. I dont think you quite understand here Im not raging at people and not raging at the people who put on this event, If thats the way its come across then its disappointing and not my intent.. We dont want a dream run we knew before we even played this tournament that it would be a Core/Ewok or Legit final.. Whats the point of a dream run? eventually will have to play those teams and thats something we dont care about.. all we want is the chance to play other teams? why is that so hard to understand? And thats all i have said from start to finish and thats all i said to esky and i said if all we are going to have rematches then whats the point in playing? not to be a downer.. we know you have the stronger team.. we are not unrealistic about that. and you have the ability to field a stronger team to play us.. again we dont have a problem with that. Iceis Sorry mate I have a lot of respect for you and I appreciate the tournament. The post i made last night was after i spoke to Esky and he talked a lot of **** about us stuff i clearly did not say, calling us names and saying we have 2 days to get other players and set plays? that's Pathetic. And for someone to be running this event and to talk to me like is down right Rude. I voiced the concerns of my Guild.

 

In addition I do not speak for Term or Cataa their views are their own and i do not dictate what they say, so don't lump me in with the saying the same things that they said.

[Novarium]

everything esky said sounds about right... you are trying to get a dream run by complaining to change the match ups, you are raging and attacking the officals on the forums about the rankings which are not variable because they are sorted by amount of wins and losses which is just unsportsmanlike.

 

if you want to verse other guild then setup your own ranked matches in your own time, we wanted to verse black sun to replace the wookie leaks game so we just queued up with them. this is a tournament they theyve setup.

 

i couldnt imagine you having a team in any real sport lol

 

Ok Man make it personal what ever...you want to pick out one sentence and state your entire post on that? Im not going to sit here and argue with you when your just going to be a jerk about it.

[Antiskeptic]

holy crap man! i cant believe all this ************, mosus is just getting out of hand lol.

 

 

Mate it's a jungle out there!!!

 

 

Dunno why pandemic is having a cry, I'm excited for them to kick core 2's butt again!!!

[Novarium]

I make a statement after talking to esky all night and suddenly we are having a cry? If i was having a cry I would change my name to ObiCry

[Antiskeptic]

I make a statement after talking to esky all night and suddenly we are having a cry? If i was having a cry I would change my name to ObiCry

 

Hyperbole. That is all.

[Obirayy]

Here's my solution: use your bloody common sense!

 

-If a someone disconnects on a civil war at 530/530 and its one node each with a stalemate at mid - restart the game.

-If a someone disconnects from a huttball when his team is 1-0 up - restart the game.

-If someone disconnects before the gates have even opened - restart the game.

-If one team has excessive disconnects through the night then maybe say, this is the last disconnect guys.

 

You've mostly got it right so far but now decided to overreact because of the way BOSS' game played out last week.

 

It's really not that tough, we have guys that go to great lengths to play in this thing. Unfit as I understand it trudges around different crib rooms in the coal mine he works at looking for a solid connection before the games. The problem as I see it is more that Fresk and Icesis really don't understand the game at a level where they are comfortable making these kind of decisions. Maybe you should put the decision back into the hands of the players?

 

I'm not sure why everyone is complaining that there isn't a restart. You're lucky you get one at the gate! Any other ranked match you don't get **** after the pop no matter how important the game is

[Dacce]

-snip-

 

As with the WZ DC issue, I will gladly look at other percentages and methods for separating teams in the future. Suggestions are welcome.

 

 

I’m a fan of every team that is playing in this tournament and appreciative to every single player that commits, be it for one match or every week. When you make statements about us not doing right by you as a team, you insinuate that we are actively trying to disadvantage you in some way and that's wrong.

 

Trolling for fun (I’m looking at you Meds) I get. If you’ve got legitimate concerns, post it, email it, pst me in game – I will listen, but please be respectful.

 

If you want, for the next tournament, I would like to get involved to assist with your ladder structure and scoring etc. If in the event of a tie, between 2 teams that haven't played each other (lets take for example EWOK and CORE(1) 6-0 each) I could watch replays and not timings of caps etc. If a team gets all the way to the end - that time would be the marker. If both teams only got the first door - and not the bridge, then who ever for the first door first would be the leader for that game. Granted, you might end up with the same result, they might be 3-3 each in terms of wins but it might clear the mud.

 

You may not even need it, but I will gladly donate some of my time to help out. You have my PM Scorpiooo any feedback from what I have suggested would be great.

 

Thanks

[Obirayy]

If you want, for the next tournament, I would like to get involved to assist with your ladder structure and scoring etc. If in the event of a tie, between 2 teams that haven't played each other (lets take for example EWOK and CORE(1) 6-0 each) I could watch replays and not timings of caps etc. If a team gets all the way to the end - that time would be the marker. If both teams only got the first door - and not the bridge, then who ever for the first door first would be the leader for that game. Granted, you might end up with the same result, they might be 3-3 each in terms of wins but it might clear the mud.

 

You may not even need it, but I will gladly donate some of my time to help out. You have my PM Scorpiooo any feedback from what I have suggested would be great.

 

Thanks

 

Dacce im just gonna go ahead and Fire you before this goes any further

[Dacce]

And what are you bringing to the party Obirray? Hyperbole? You are just as bad as pandemic and mosus with what has gone on in this thread.

[Obirayy]

And what are you bringing to the party Obirray? Hyperbole? You are just as bad as pandemic and mosus with what has gone on in this thread.

 

Lol I'm just hyperboling your ***

[D_anger]

Thank you to the organisers for putting on their second great event. After watching the first one live, our core pvpers decided that we would love to get involved, even if we weren't quite at the standard or the gear, or sometimes even able to put up a full 7 or 8. Still, we have had fun. I would also like to thank our new guys that filled in last night. I have heard that score wise they did not do so well, but they said they had fun and we will be back!

 

My suggestions about the 2 issues, DCs and Structure.

 

The structure has been up since the tournament was announced. If you have a problem with it (not just suggestions) then you should have made them back then. Also I would suggest that it is up to teams to monitor the forum / website to find out when their next game is, even if they think they have been eliminated, and not rely on organisers to tell them. In saying that, I'm not having a go at WL for not turning up, as i believe they honestly thought they were done. I thought the same of us until i checked.

 

I believe that the suggestions that have been made constructively throughout this thread will be used next time, assuming the bashing of ice etc hasn't forced him to quit and give up.

 

The disconnections is frustrating. If you look back at week one, we were late vs Core 1. This is because our main sage healer (Gunshin) who never got to play in the tournament, had and continues to have internet issues. DCs can affect every team, but most commonly it affects the same people continually. Even with BOSS last week, 3 or 4 disconnects, by different people. But i bet its not the first time those players disconnected that week or since then, or maybe even that night. The solution to this has to be on the players and the participating guild to put up players that can play the game properly. As pointed out, in any other RWZ, you will be forced to play with 7.

 

Forcing the refs to choose who has an advantage will be obvious at some points, and at other points it will create more tension then this thread. The new rule is designed to avoid the second situation, by eliminating the first. This is completely fair. I do like the new rule (even though we are out of the tournament) as it was quite annoying restarting the same WZ a number of times. Additional to this, there are things that you would not be able to call or see as a ref. For instance, in our Hypergate against boss that got played, Sticks ended up with 20k MS ping about half way through. You can see that's why his damage was right down, and why he ended up guarding the node at the end. Also, you can hear one of the commentators saying "Oh luka is just standing there". Yep, well that's because he was in the process of disconnecting, before his internet kicked back in, and he was back in the respawn area. I have no doubt that we would have held BOSS from capping that node if both of those instances hadn't happened, which would have forced another round for Hypergate and who knows? (I'm not saying we would have won, but it would have been closer).

 

That's pretty much my rant over.

 

Please PM me to get our entrance fee next time we are both online Icesiss. I look forward to Season 2.

 

Note: Any guilds that would like to organise a RWZ match in future, we are working on a PVP night for us to do RWZs and will be actively looking for matches. Obviously we are not of the highest standard (core, midian, ewok) but I would still like to play the odd match against you guys, as well as vs the other teams like Pandemic, WLs and Boss again (more so because all you guys are imps!) Please contact Kaelus on the Rep side and we will organise something. (I do not have an imperial contact as yet, working on that)

[Antiskeptic]

And what are you bringing to the party Obirray? Hyperbole? You are just as bad as pandemic and mosus with what has gone on in this thread.

 

Do I need to get you a tissue as well bud?

[Scorpiooooo]

That's pretty much my rant over.

Please PM me to get our entrance fee next time we are both online Icesiss. I look forward to Season 2.

 

Cheers for the feedback, mate!

[Scorpiooooo]

You may not even need it, but I will gladly donate some of my time to help out. You have my PM Scorpiooo any feedback from what I have suggested would be great.

 

You're a champion.

[Tom_the_Narwhal]

As far as DC issues go... There shouldn't be any pity. If people want to play in Online Games competitively they need good internet. That's that. You cannot expect organizers/other teams to wait around and restart every time someone DC's. In only a very few games have there been massive sways to one team or the other at the very start. As you saw with Legit vs Core in Alderaan the scoreboard showed very little representation of how the game was actually going.

 

tl;dr Move out of the 90s, fix your internet and stop playing on Cardboard boxes.

[Scorpiooooo]

ALRIGHT! I think we've all had about enough of that. Thanks everyone for all the feedback and kind words: but we've got games coming up on Thursday! Woo!

 

Also, just quickly, I should point out that this whole tournament wouldn't be happening without EsKy. Not only is he a gun player but he's super knowledgable about the game and the teams, and he casts the whole thing via Skype with absolutely no control over the stream. Legend. Although, now that Heart of the Swarm is out, we probably won't see him ever again (I hear he's no longer playing Zerg and is going to be a dirty, dirty Brotoss).

 

SEE YOU ALL THURSDAY!

[Obirayy]

ALRIGHT! I think we've all had about enough of that. Thanks everyone for all the feedback and kind words: but we've got games coming up on Thursday! Woo!

 

1 more thing... Should someone let pandemic and legit know they are playing Thursday just in case they don't show up because they didn't know about it

[Weeeeee]

To the people that want to commentate OR claim they could do a better job then Esky and Icesis, here is how you can do it yourself.

 

1. Purchase/rent and install the software and hardware needed for streaming and commentating

 

2, Convince and organise the pvp guilds of an entire server to participate a Ranked Tournament.

 

3. Commence the tournament and commentate as best as you can from a single zoomed out POV.

 

4. Upload everything, which takes a lot of time.

 

5. Spend hours replying politely to ungrateful baddies on forums.

 

Yeah can't be bothered now right?

Icesis and Esky put more effort into this then you credit them for. The first RAW literally saved the server IMO.

 

PLUS Icesis and Esky's charisma / entertainment value > lifeless nerd mumbling into the mic about stats.

[Jumpchan]

Also, just quickly, I should point out that this whole tournament wouldn't be happening without EsKy. Not only is he a gun player but he's super knowledgable about the game and the teams

 

you cant lie to me! that sandee guy is insanly noob! he once told me to throw my medpac at him!

Edited March 12, 2013 by Jumpchan

[iheartnyc]

Here's my solution: use your bloody common sense!

 

-If a someone disconnects on a civil war at 530/530 and its one node each with a stalemate at mid - restart the game.

-If a someone disconnects from a huttball when his team is 1-0 up - restart the game.

-If someone disconnects before the gates have even opened - restart the game.

-If one team has excessive disconnects through the night then maybe say, this is the last disconnect guys.

 

 

Either no restart after disconnect (Don't see that in any other game, don't see why you need kid rules), or restart up to 1 minute under any circumstances, but under no circumstances after 1 minute.

Edited March 12, 2013 by iheartnyc

[Antiskeptic]

Either no restart after disconnect (Don't see that in any other game, don't see why you need kid rules), or restart up to 1 minute under any circumstances, but under no circumstances after 1 minute.

 

The new rule as it stands is fine. One restart if there's a DC with in the first minute or so then no more restarts.