The current state of pvp.

[xContex]

There is 1 very important change people forgot to mention that came in 1.2. The reason rage/focus is viable for sentinels is because swelling winds (20% damage increase to force sweep/smash) was moved from the middle tree to the focus/rage tree. One of the easiest fixes bioware could do would be to move it back to vengeance/vigilance and you would see every single sentinel swap back to either watchman or combat. You'd see a huge reduction in smashers and an overall playable game.

 

I personally play a guardian. Focus is my only viable tree as BW deemed vigilance OP and nerfed it in patch 1.4. Given the likelihood of some sort of re-balancing I do hope they rebuff vigilance to at least pre-1.4. But with Bioware's track record I really don't have any hope.

 

Also, to those of you stating there is no counter to focus. You are dead wrong. There is no counter to 5 focus bombers, yes I agree with that. But against 1 focus bomber, there are plenty of counters. I used to do it when I was in my vigilance hybrid spec. I'm sure many of you could do the same.

Edited January 30, 2013 by xContex

[Aowin]

There is 1 very important change people forgot to mention that came in 1.2. The reason rage/focus is viable for sentinels is because swelling winds (20% damage increase to force sweep/smash) was moved from the middle tree to the focus/rage tree. One of the easiest fixes bioware could do would be to move it back to vengeance/vigilance and you would see every single sentinel swap back to either watchman or combat. You'd see a huge reduction in smashers and an overall playable game.

 

I personally play a guardian. Focus is my only viable tree as BW deemed vigilance OP and nerfed it in patch 1.4. Given the likelihood of some sort of re-balancing I do hope they rebuff vigilance to at least pre-1.4. But with Bioware's track record I really don't have any hope.

 

Also, to those of you stating there is no counter to focus. You are dead wrong. There is no counter to 5 focus bombers, yes I agree with that. But against 1 focus bomber, there are plenty of counters. I used to do it when I was in my vigilance hybrid spec. I'm sure many of you could do the same.

 

Perhaps "no counter" is a poor choice of words. Gunslingers/Snipers are a good example of a class that can counter Focus spec. Bubble stun obviously was created with the intention of countering it. One Focus spec alone really isn't that deadly, as it's not really a solo class, but more of a support. What does make them deadly is bubble stun, along with other deadly DPS that allows them the opportunity to free cast even though they are glass cannons.

 

Regardless, many of the specs need to be re-thought and certainly DPS in general just needs to be nerfed in this game. I remember when tanks (besides Shadows/Assassins) used to actually be viable in PvP. They would still be if there weren't so many DPS classes that have way too much survivability, do too much burst, or have too much CC/utility. We also can't forget that most of the classes don't have DOT cleansers, which makes a class like Sentinel/Marauder in Watchman spec especially dangerous with their 1000+ ticks per second.

 

A glass cannon is a glass cannon. DPS classes should not have defensive cooldowns. They certainly shouldn't be better than the defensive cooldowns my guardian tank has. Tanks shouldn't hit like trucks. Currently Shadow Tank Hybrids can do a massive amount of damage and BioWare needs to nerf that aspect of them. There's a lot that needs to be fixed, but given BioWare Mythic is incompetent when it comes to class balance and PvP, I'm not very hopeful.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Aowin

[StonerC]

I hope they add more warzones, but I also would like more worlds other than ILLUM to PVP on a Massive scale. They should also add a system to reward the side thats winning in PVP!!!

[vermura]

The current state of pvp is quite simple: utterly ****.

 

sub cancelled, really couldn't give a **** what bioware does because I've seen enough of them to know they have absolutely no *********** clue about their own game.

[GNWP]

smash/sweep is not subject to accuracy debuffs

Actually, it is. But only by Diversion. It works on Tech and Force attacks also.

Edited January 31, 2013 by GNWP

[mattycutts]

/signed

[rainbow]

Also, to those of you stating there is no counter to focus. You are dead wrong. There is no counter to 5 focus bombers, yes I agree with that. But against 1 focus bomber, there are plenty of counters. I used to do it when I was in my vigilance hybrid spec. I'm sure many of you could do the same.

 

Well with the current number of "Smash/Sweep is op"-threads will you rather have 1 or several focus bombers in a match?

[MelodicSixNine]

One of the easiest fixes bioware could do would be to move it back to vengeance/vigilance and you would see every single sentinel swap back to either watchman or combat.

 

 

Focus/Rage was good before 1.2 too just not everyone knew it so some will stay for sure, but got to warn you: watch out what are you wishing for. If bubble stun will be applied only to caster and everyone will reroll carnage/combat you will cry for smashers to come back. Rooting master strike with adrenals taking 3/4 of your health, followed by auto crit bladestorm will be painful.

Edited January 31, 2013 by MelodicSixNine

[kijthae]

This game had decent pvp at release.

 

What grass are you smoking? Obviously you didnt play at release and wasnt victim of 7k hidden strikes + 5k backstabs + 4k lacarates and 1k tickking dots. Tracer spams...

Edited January 31, 2013 by kijthae

[Eszi]

What grass are you smoking? Obviously you didnt play at release and wasnt victim of 7k hidden strikes + 5k backstabs + 4k lacarates and 1k tickking dots. Tracer spams...

 

While i do agree that operative dps were really op at launch, people who were complaining about tracer were simply morons who destroyed that class. Mercs were actually balanced - turret class, high damage when freecasting, still they were vulnerable to interrupts just as much as they are now. But instead of interrupting, people decided to cry on forums.

[UncelSam]

I find the uber heals a big problem with players going from 1% health to 100% in 1 sec over and over in an endless loop.

 

its stupid.

 

There should be some kind of limit for the heals

[rainbow]

I find the uber heals a big problem with players going from 1% health to 100% in 1 sec over and over in an endless loop.

 

its stupid.

 

There should be some kind of limit for the heals

 

1% to 100% is either a really bad geared player healed or a good geared player healed by 2 or more healers... I can only heal 5-6k max in one heal... and even surgical probe (when it crits 3k max) can only be cast once every 1.5 seconds so that is like 10-11k max in 1.5 seconds when the probes are still ticking - and that only works once.

Edited January 31, 2013 by rainbow

[biowareftw]

What grass are you smoking? Obviously you didnt play at release and wasnt victim of 7k hidden strikes + 5k backstabs + 4k lacarates and 1k tickking dots. Tracer spams...

 

This wasn't a scoundrel/op only problem. It was a adrenal/warzone buff/trinket stacking problem. You can watch old videos of people doing darn near one shot aoe smashes/sweeps. Hybrid sage/sorc destroying stuff with aoe from range, sins/shadows downing people in seconds on procs.

 

Tracer missile/grav round spam? That was user error/bad players complaining. That class could be shut down completely. I can't think of one class that a commando/merc could beat in a 1 v 1, even before they got nerfed. If they did beat you? You didn't use interrupts or the plethora of class skills that countered that spec. As far as that class? It is the only class I never maxed out. I got to like level 40ish and was bored with it. Also as far as it being "too easy to play"? A dps sorc is just as boring/easy. The only way a sorc has a higher skill cap is if they offheal a ton (which few ever do). They are the only viable offhealer because there is no offensive dispel in this game. When you shield someone? That is a pretty darn good instant heal as a dps class, even if it doesn't show up on a meter. Off healing on a merc/commando dps spec is bad due to no dots running/less viable cc, and needed to "change forms" to offheal effectively. Off healing as a dps scoundrel is worse. You self kite yourself from your kill target (have to stand still), and keep yourself in combat (can't restealth).

 

So when you see the pity party that is the sorc/sage forums (or the mage forum in any game, including WoW in which the old developer said mage keyboards have all Q's on them), complaining about their burst lacking compared to other hybrids? Take it with a grain of salt. That class is as faceroll a "mage class" as I have ever played, and the only way they can give them close to the burst as other classes, is if they make them shift to a heal form from a dps form. If you play the sage/sorc like you are supposed to? Middle dmg/middle healing? They are very powerful. ATM they are dumbed down shadow priests with no need to change forms, better mana efficiency and a simplified rotation, and no offensive dispel to counter shield..

 

Let me sum this up for you. The "mage classes" designed counter got nerfed before people were even geared. The ranged hybrid that put up better burst got nerfed, because the mage class compared "IT'S NOT FAIR".

 

Seeing that sorc/sages made up like half the player base in the first few months of release (LOL), the nerfs went in to appease the majority.

 

Probably the same reason bubble stun was put into this game...

[islander]

I have a well geared bubble stunner, and I personally hate playing him now. That's all he's amounted to...a stunning battery. It was fun to provide the lulz for a few weeks, but it's gotten tired. I know some of the whines I hear ring hollow, but on the same token I can't say this is a major step forward for pvp in this game. No more so then having three smashers leap and hook up the triple smash and aoe half the team to near death (that's what dispatch is for, amirite?)

 

I play my sniper almost exclusively now.

Edited January 31, 2013 by islander

[Aowin]

Lets just sum this up. Mythic has not been able to make a competent PvP experience since DAoC, and even then class balance was an issue for the exuberant amount of classes the game had. It's no surprise class balance hasn't improved, as BioWare only concerns themselves with PvE and story and having two conflicting gear sets adds more problems. Some of the classes (and their trees) are just inherently better in PvP and some in PvE.

 

It's something that will likely never be fixed because BioWare and Mythic have created an excess of problems. Not to mention the large amounts of misinformation distributed and the fact that any PvPer who wants to perform optimally will literally switch to the FOTM class/tree. Unless BioWare takes some drastic actions, I don't see class balance ever improving. Not to mention they are raising the level cap and adding a new tier of gear so soon? That can only mean expertise benefits will go up and balancing will be even more of a nightmare...

 

Get rid of expertise. Slow down DPS in general. Limit and constrain CC/utility (or just toss out the resolve bar). A lot of the issues this game has is the fact that BioWare tries to make classes feel powerful and as a result they become unbalanced and have too many safe keys. BioWare and more specifically Mythic will never be able to solve anything until they look at the major game design flaws the system currently has.

[islander]

NO way on getting rid of expertise. It's the only thing preventing PvEers from having the best gear for PvP.

I have zero interest in raiding, nor any desire to see raiders rewarded in PvP for doing lolPvE.

[Aowin]

NO way on getting rid of expertise. It's the only thing preventing PvEers from having the best gear for PvP.

I have zero interest in raiding, nor any desire to see raiders rewarded in PvP for doing lolPvE.

 

I didn't say to get rid of PvP gear. I said to get rid of expertise. The easiest solution would be to make PvP gear on par with PvE gear stat-wise, while having different set piece bonuses more beneficial or exclusive to Warzones. BioWare/Mythic can keep the gear progression system for PvP the way it already is. They just need to throw out expertise. It has never worked well and continues to cause major class imbalances, in particular for DPSers as they get the largest boost from it. Lets not even forget to mention the expertise adrenal powerups in Warzones still increase damage, healing, and protection of your expertise by 15% (the warzone adrenals only increase protection now), which is part of the reason high burst classes can appear so overpowered to begin with. Those should go too.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Aowin

[tekhiun]

I didn't say to get rid of PvP gear. I said to get rid of expertise. The easiest solution would be to make PvP gear on par with PvE gear stat-wise, while having different set piece bonuses more beneficial or exclusive to Warzones. BioWare/Mythic can keep the gear progression system for PvP the way it already is. They just need to throw out expertise. It has never worked well and continues to cause major class imbalances, in particular for DPSers as they get the largest boost from it. Lets not even forget to mention the expertise adrenal powerups in Warzones still increase damage, healing, and protection of your expertise by 15% (the warzone adrenals only increase protection now), which is part of the reason high burst classes can appear so overpowered to begin with. Those should go too.

 

Are we back at launch ? No, it is necessary to differentiate between pvp and pve gear stat wise. Atm if you do things right you can get a full war hero set as soon as you get to 50. Following your proposition that would be a jump of 3 tiers of gear ( tio, columi and rakata) by doing an activity that has nothing to do with pve. Like wise you can get the best pvp gear by not pvping at all ? That makes no sense.

 

I think the best solution for differetiation, even better than expertise imo is to make pvp gear only or accessible in warzones, i.e instead of expertise the mods and gear would give a debuff that would set bonus dmg and healing to 0 when used outside a warzone

 

A more elegant implementation would make your pvp gear not removable , and set it on a second layer, that way when you start pvping the pve gear would be turned off and the pvp gear would be turned on. You would still be able to purchase mods and the shells with commendations so you can customize your looks and improve your stats.

 

IF bioware did something like this we would have both pvp and pve progression that would not interfere with each other.

Edited January 31, 2013 by tekhiun

[Aowin]

Are we back at launch ? No, it is necessary to differentiate between pvp and pve gear stat wise. Atm if you do things right you can get a full war hero set as soon as you get to 50. Following your proposition that would be a jump of 3 tiers of gear ( tio, columi and rakata) by doing an activity that has nothing to do with pve. Like wise you can get the best pvp gear by not pvping at all ? That makes no sense.

 

I think the best solution for differetiation, even better than expertise imo is to make pvp gear only or accessible in warzones, i.e instead of expertise the mods and gear would give a debuff that would set bonus dmg and healing to 0 when used outside a warzone

 

A more elegant implementation would make your pvp gear not removable , and set it on a second layer, that way when you start pvping the pve gear would be turned off and the pvp gear would be turned on. You would still be able to purchase mods and the shells with commendations so you can customize your looks and improve your stats.

 

IF bioware did something like this we would have both pvp and pve progression that would not interfere with each other.

 

Expertise has been a problem long before launch and long before Game Testing. It is bad game design and I have never seen this system work well in any MMORPG. WoW has a similar system to expertise and is just as bad.

 

If you were here at launch you would know that the fast gear progression in PvP is purely BioWare's fault. When there was Centurion (always useless), Champion (the gear most struggled to obtain, and Battlemaster (could only obtain if valor 60 and had a 25% chance of getting a BM comm, which you need multiple ones for pieces) were rather long gear progressions. Since 1.2, BioWare has made PvP much more casual and accessible and as a result, gear is easy to obtain. Just recently a few patches ago has BioWare obsoleted Battlemaster and now War Hero, of which used to be a grind to obtain, can take less than a week.

 

I'm not interested in how long it takes to obtain gear however. I'm interested in having a gear system that makes sense, is balanced, and works. Who cares how one obtains the best gear in the game? Why does there have to be multiple sets to differentiate the play-styles? Star Wars Galaxies had a gear progression that was solely based on crafting, so you needed players to craft one suit of gear that was the best for PvE and PvP. As I stated above the only differentiating factors between PvP and PvE that make sense are set piece bonuses. Expertise is a broken and silly system that has never worked since the beginning, and is worse even now because it's causing imbalances.

 

Tionese, Columni, and Rakata aren't even a factor as Black Hole is comparable to Campaign without the set piece bonus, and is easier to get. You don't need to run Operations or Flashpoints in order to obtain Black Hole gear, so your point in that regard is irrelevant. BioWare obsoletes their own gear sets because they have no idea what they are doing.

 

I'm not even sure why you are critiquing my post as you yourself agree that expertise is a broken system. I also stated that there would be a PvP set of gear still, but would be on par with PvE but tailored to PvP. Whether that is limiting use in Warzones or having necessary set piece bonuses, it doesn't really matter how it's done. People are either going to raid or do PvP and they will get their gear regardless. I could care less if it's easier to get one or the other as long as BioWare makes them visually different or more useful to their actual purpose.

 

Expertise needs to go. That's something we can all support.

[JediTayledras]

Bioware! Fix this now or i will not buy your expansion, nor will i resubscribe in 11 days. And i will be putting much effort into having others do the same. We are your consumers. Listen to us or we will stop giving you our money! Simple as that.

[biowareftw]

Bioware! Fix this now or i will not buy your expansion, nor will i resubscribe in 11 days. And i will be putting much effort into having others do the same. We are your consumers. Listen to us or we will stop giving you our money! Simple as that.

 

^. Bout the only thing that is going to work. I feel bad I recruited so many WoW players to this game. Memory leak continues. Bubble stun is just stupid.

 

Quick fixes that could be made are passed up to add a new outfit to the cartel market...

[mtsr]

but that's the way they do it

[Ovan_Oh-One]

Lets just sum this up. Mythic has not been able to make a competent PvP experience since DAoC, and even then class balance was an issue for the exuberant amount of classes the game had. It's no surprise class balance hasn't improved, as BioWare only concerns themselves with PvE and story and having two conflicting gear sets adds more problems. Some of the classes (and their trees) are just inherently better in PvP and some in PvE.

 

It's something that will likely never be fixed because BioWare and Mythic have created an excess of problems. Not to mention the large amounts of misinformation distributed and the fact that any PvPer who wants to perform optimally will literally switch to the FOTM class/tree. Unless BioWare takes some drastic actions, I don't see class balance ever improving. Not to mention they are raising the level cap and adding a new tier of gear so soon? That can only mean expertise benefits will go up and balancing will be even more of a nightmare...

Get rid of expertise. Slow down DPS in general. Limit and constrain CC/utility (or just toss out the resolve bar). A lot of the issues this game has is the fact that BioWare tries to make classes feel powerful and as a result they become unbalanced and have too many safe keys. BioWare and more specifically Mythic will never be able to solve anything until they look at the major game design flaws the system currently has.

 

They're making changes to expertise. It will be the same across all gear, including Recruit. Main and secondary stats will be higher across tiers, of course.

[biowareftw]

You know what? Heck with it. This company can't even fix a memory leak. Asking it to hotfix something they intentionally broke was just unrealistic.

 

I was stupid to even waste time making this post in the first place. Then again? The bigger mistake was even coming back to this game and subbing to it again in the first place.

 

I didn't think it was possible for the game to be in worse shape then it was the months after release, but I underestimated the brilliant people working on this game.

 

Bravo and job well done.

[Nucairion]

i agree with op. while a signle smasher is no so much of a problem and if you get caught by smash you could argue you wernt paying attentions to them building it up but the minute you get multiple smashers on the same team leap into say novara when your capping south they have the smash buff built up in seconds with force crush then bam 7k smash x2 from fully augmented elite war hero geared players then thats at least one person dead proberly more when you count the fact they will also only need 1-2 more aibilitys after that to finish of multiple people instantly. smash isnt like morter volley or death from above or orbital strike for that matter where you no its happening. smash is instant cast aoe with no marker placed on ground so if your focus on healer you wont often see a smasher preparing a smash to leap into the crowd.

 

the fact it is 100% crit in rage spec has its damage increased alot from talent points and can now have it cooldown lowered a significant amount tell you all you need but if thats not enough to show how op the spec is. lets look at the figures.

 

how many smashers were there in 1.2?? very few. since the 2 buff rage/focus got majority of each server rerolled/respecced. they didnt reroll or respec for no reason or coz they suddenly felt the spec was cool. they rerolled coz it was the new op spec. anyone who denies this is just lieing to themselfs. they rerolled oz it was op and the old class was nerfed or not as good anymore. fair play to the players that played the spec from beggining but that doesnt change the fact its still an op spec.

 

the funny thing is tho why bother with these posts. trying to preach to faceroller lol rerolling people who actually rerolled or respected there char just to pay the new op spec arnt exactly gonna hold there hands up and say yeam man im op i rerolled coz its op so what. are they?? doing that would be an admission of how they couldnt play there old class/spec properly. or just simple they want to be op so they look good.

 

at launch when ops/scoundrels badly needed a nerf these forums were full of posts from ops/scoundrel denying they were op giving lame examples why they were balanced and actually qq'ing threating to quit if the class was nerfed. why were they doing that. its simple coz they loved being op and killing people in 3 hits. jsut like we see in this post clear sw/jks denying the spec is op coz they love how easy it is to get big numbers and how easy to kill people it is.

 

however one thing i really find annoying in posts like these is when people threaten to cancel sub just coz of stupid pvp balance. just deal with it or quit threating to quit wont bring forward bw's balance plans or make them change there plans just coz some people threaten to quit.

 

that being said theres arguments for nearly ever class being op or underpowered in the game doesnt mean there right but ppl tend to say alot of things that they think, like there entitled to but that is not the same view as mmo companys thoughts on balance.

 

as for balance i hate the word true balance in pvp is a myth. no class can ever be equal to another otherwise the point of having different classes is pointless. who would play a game where a juggernaut performed the exact sameway as a sage with the only differance being type of abilities and armour. who would want to play as a healer that performed no differently from another healer. each class is ment to be unquie and perform differntly. and when dev balance classes only based on pvp complaints or performance it has a serious effect on pve. for example if they nerf pyro/assault specialist again. coz of pvp complaints/performance we will have no use in pve having parsed my vg AS in pve during tfb hm or any raid most of my damage comes from the dot. nerf that and im useless in pve. hence ill have to reroll a pve class and regear a pve class all because of pvpers qqing.

 

tactics/advanced prototype really isnt that pve usefull because it all focus around one aoe ability. much like focus rage only not even half as effective so when your in a raid with multiple cced mobs your unable to use your spec to its best.

 

take away the 100% crit chance from smash and leave it down to crit rating and problem solved in my opinion. that wont make to much of a radical change and brin it on par with other classes chances to crit