Why I Believe Less-Human Species Should be PC's

[Arkerus]

You don't seem to get the oversight.

 

Even without being a designer, lets imagine the Cathar implimentation that we can expect had to happen or what I hope happens.

 

1. I have heard no word about them getting a new voice, so the class voices still apply. Nothing to do there. Any non basic speaking aliens would require this work done.

2. Lets say ten (low guess) faces that multiplies out over two genders and four body types. They have to draw them in draft, make basic models, make full versions, make full version that look acceptable to every mood and facial expression in the cut scenes of the 50 levels of 8 classes, plus FPs and the mood and emote system. Then make sure the facial hair and ears don't clip obviously through most of the armor available in the game.

3. Code all this so it works and doesn't cause clashes that result in poor performance, crashes, or lock up missions.

4. I hope change the interactions/conversations of the Troopers first companion who would obviously question the fact you are the same species as he is (and this is a romance companion).

 

And those are just four elements to be considered off the top of my head. I am sure a developer could tell us a hundred other problems costing massive manhours to create. All for content that not everyone will use and has NO elements that add to the story of a story based MMO.

 

 

 

Do you think the guys working on this game hate Star Wars or are fans?

 

Do you think that the developers wouldn't also love to give (or even sell) us more variety if it were simple and didn't cost massive amounts of work that is hard to justify spending on?

 

Sorry for harping on about this. It is something I would love to see. But it is a request that has been made every week since the races were announced before beta. And all you are asking for is skins that even if the colossal amount off work was put into them, would add nothing in the way of content.

 

I ask myself two questions:

1. How long would one more race satisfy me? Answer - Depends on how the race changes how I play and if it was one of my favorite races, but even then probably not long.

2. How many racial choices would stop me from asking for more? Answer - How quickly can I devour the content they come with?

 

At what point should SW:TOR spend any resources on such content when those are the result for the minority that would use them, compared to making more content for everyone like new worlds, events, elder game, and PVP.

 

That's the point right there. Adding non standard model aliens isn't in the cards because it would be very expensive and it doesn't directly expand the game in any appreciable way. It's a "sideways" expansion and it would be moderately enjoyable at best.

 

 

Face it folks. Unless there is a major overhaul non standard models are not happening.

[JimG]

I almost posted this in another thread, but I thought the debate of whether or not to allows less-humanoid races deserved its own thread.

Deserves its own thread? This topic has been covered in numerous threads since launch.

 

They've already said that the future of any additional species is going to depend on how well Cathar sell in the Cartel Market. Translation = they'll add species as long as the development cost will be covered through purchases of the special on the CM. Less humanoid species will cost even more in development than the humanoid type species. So if they are convinced that selling a Wookie unlock on the CM will make them money, then they'll eventually do it.

[CelCawdro]

Deserves its own thread? This topic has been covered in numerous threads since launch.

 

They've already said that the future of any additional species is going to depend on how well Cathar sell in the Cartel Market. Translation = they'll add species as long as the development cost will be covered through purchases of the special on the CM. Less humanoid species will cost even more in development than the humanoid type species. So if they are convinced that selling a Wookie unlock on the CM will make them money, then they'll eventually do it.

 

Eh, apparently BioWare likes to reply to new and recent threads regarding well-worn topics instead of visiting those venerable threads that have played host to those topics for months.

[Vitas]

A Rodian would perhaps have less trouble becoming playable:

*Their body shape is the same as a Human or near-human so gear would be able to appear properly.

*Rodians can wear the same size helmets as humans as they can tuck their ears and antennae under and their snouts are flexible.

*Rodians are able to speak basic as shown here:

**https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BweotHZBYlg#t=296s

**https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouUaSpLV7IA&feature=player_detailpage#t=11s

The devs can simply transform the current recorded dialogue so it echoes.

*With romaces, it's possible that maybe some companions are affectionate towards Rodians, but otherwise they can simply restrict who they can romance with or have the player make a move and automatically fail.

 

As you can see, Rodians would appear to be less difficult to implement than compared to Wookiees or Trandoshans.

[JerevFalar]

You don't seem to get the oversight.

 

Even without being a designer, lets imagine the Cathar implimentation that we can expect had to happen or what I hope happens.

 

1. I have heard no word about them getting a new voice, so the class voices still apply. Nothing to do there. Any non basic speaking aliens would require this work done.

2. Lets say ten (low guess) faces that multiplies out over two genders and four body types. They have to draw them in draft, make basic models, make full versions, make full version that look acceptable to every mood and facial expression in the cut scenes of the 50 levels of 8 classes, plus FPs and the mood and emote system. Then make sure the facial hair and ears don't clip obviously through most of the armor available in the game.

3. Code all this so it works and doesn't cause clashes that result in poor performance, crashes, or lock up missions.

4. I hope change the interactions/conversations of the Troopers first companion who would obviously question the fact you are the same species as he is (and this is a romance companion).

 

And those are just four elements to be considered off the top of my head. I am sure a developer could tell us a hundred other problems costing massive manhours to create. All for content that not everyone will use and has NO elements that add to the story of a story based MMO.

 

 

 

Do you think the guys working on this game hate Star Wars or are fans?

 

Do you think that the developers wouldn't also love to give (or even sell) us more variety if it were simple and didn't cost massive amounts of work that is hard to justify spending on?

 

Sorry for harping on about this. It is something I would love to see. But it is a request that has been made every week since the races were announced before beta. And all you are asking for is skins that even if the colossal amount off work was put into them, would add nothing in the way of content.

 

I ask myself two questions:

1. How long would one more race satisfy me? Answer - Depends on how the race changes how I play and if it was one of my favorite races, but even then probably not long.

2. How many racial choices would stop me from asking for more? Answer - How quickly can I devour the content they come with?

 

At what point should SW:TOR spend any resources on such content when those are the result for the minority that would use them, compared to making more content for everyone like new worlds, events, elder game, and PVP.

 

You do have a good point.

 

I suppose in the end its up to whether the devs think that species are more important than busting out new content or balancing classes. I for one am excited for anything new they come up with, but at the same time, new species would make me extremely satisfied.

 

Whatever Bioware chooses to focus on there are always valid reasons, and if the technical hurdle for new species is too large I guess I'd rather see the game progress as a whole rather than be bogged down for a long time to develop a few species. I think the reception of the Cathar will determine that decision.

[EnufThree]

So what if a certain race doesn't speak basic? If a player wants to risk hours of tedious alien noises, I say go for it.

 

It really wouldn't be very difficult to implement species like Rodians, Ithorians... Hell, even Wookiees.

 

You collect a few audio samples of said alien speaking their language and throw it in over the voice actor originally recorded for whatever class your playing as.

 

OR you can work in some sort of translator device that these exotic races use to speak Basic.

[Draegaar]

Robocop isn't Star Wars, and Star Wars isn't cyberpunk.

Not sure what Star Wars you watched. Lobot looked very much human. The only cybernetic piece he had was the exterior computer on the back and sides of his head. Luke looked pretty human, too. Vader, of course, covered everything up with armor.

 

Please, stop while you're ahead... I wasn't suggesting Star Wars change its theme. You took my words out of context. Just because a Human has a prosthetic replacement limb doesn't make him a Cyborg. So before you quote someone on a public forum simply for the sake of rediculing them, you should probably examine the "spirit" or intent of the post. It will make you appear less stupid in the future.

[Urantia]

I can still remember the ancient disscussions in the pre-beta forums back on 2008. People even wanted to be able to play as droids {like HK 47/49 etc and so on} lol. While we can see why that never happened...I would still love to been able to play as a droid. Perhaps not as a force user of course...but that would not rule out the use of a lightsaber of course :-) CY-M Prototype [sWG] was one cheesy example that come to mind from recent history. Edited January 30, 2013 by Urantia

[Goretzu]

Can anyone for this idea explain more about what they would enjoy most about playing a wookie or trandoshan in these stories?

 

I honestly wish to understand what the *personal* value of what is a 'vanity skin' like is being asked for compared to the work load to fix camera angles, endless clipping issues, changes/replacing of an entire class voice acting, and a dozen other issues the developers have pointed out as a problem.

 

What's not to like about playing a Wookie(e)?

 

I'm not entirely convinced a Wookie(e) would work well with the current classes, but it could work as a Prestige Class/Race in one (in fact a Prestige Class that gave alternative race types - Wookie(e), Trandoshan, Neti, Genosians etc.).

[Goretzu]

I can still remember the ancient disscussions in the pre-beta forums back on 2008. People even wanted to be able to play as droids {like HK 47/49 etc and so on} lol. While we can see why that never happened...I would still love to been able to play as a droid. Perhaps not as a force user of course...but that would not rule out the use of a lightsaber of course :-) CY-M Prototype [sWG] was one cheesy example that come to mind from recent history.

 

I see absolutely no reason why a Droid couldn't play through the BH storyline and probably the Agent, Trooper and Smuggler one.

 

Or again as a prestige class.

[Urantia]

I see absolutely no reason why a Droid couldn't play through the BH storyline and probably the Agent, Trooper and Smuggler one.

 

Or again as a prestige class.

 

Yeah...that is what I was thinking. Would have been cool for sure.

[kirorx]

But voice over is far from the only issue in implimentation for what you are asking for, as the developers have said repeatedly. The clipping on twileks alone costs unbeleivable amounts of man hours of work to fix. The initial private beta players hated the alien jibberish on typhon that the original refuge speices was replaced with Twileks because the majority hated the same jibberish. You ask for far more than you even slightly consider to satisfy a want you don't even well define your play benefit would be.

.

 

Alot of these aliens would have no clipping issues, they could just have not head piece. Similar to the twi'lek not having a hood up option.

 

Alot of these aliens are simply a different head and skin color difference

 

Again, you brought back the jibberish. Now to me I am sure i am not alone. Its been a year already of the same lines spoke by the same classes. "murder and mayhem await" is no less jibberish than some aline garble.

 

I loved the sullustan cop on coruscant and would much rather have a character like that for my jedi knight sentinal because i already have a jedi knight guardian and his vo is already being used. I hate that they would sound the same and i would rather roll a alien gibberish than a female for the VO.

[Izorii]

I kinda see three camps here

1) The people who want alien species that can speak basic and have basic human bodies. Kel'dor, Mon Cal, Rodians(its been pointed out they can speak basic) etc. These species should be no real problem any clipping issues can be sorted by simply disabling the helmet slot or in the case of Mon Cal the hands and feet slots. No one who wants to play one of these species would have a single problem with this. This should be easy and a no brainer for development to add.

2) Species that are not the standard body type or would have clipping issues because of horns, tenticles and size. These would present a unique problem to the developers can they design a species so it does not look stupid when the Torgua's horns go right through the hood, or the mask. How many robes and outfits would have to be redesigned and re done, would the users be happy having set outfits they have to purchase on the cartel market for just these species. Would enough people buy them and would people be happy that regardless of equipment they looked the same. Hard to say.

3) Species which dont speak basic. In Star Wars the majority of non basic speaking aliens also are non human bodies. Adding them is very difficult and must come down to demand verse cost. However rather than have players listen to pages and pages of growls there are ways round it. 1) Cut out all but response grows and subtiitles like with other MMO's we dont hear the playe character speak, 2) He speaks basic yes to everyone else its growls but we are listening to him speak in his native language and can understand him because his our character.

 

I really cant see why more alien species that fall into camp 1 can not be added quickly cheaply and if sold on the Cartel market make Bioware money. Options 2 and 3 are more unlikely but should be possible if enough people will pay for them.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Izorii

[Icebergy]

I see absolutely no reason why a Droid couldn't play through the BH storyline and probably the Agent, Trooper and Smuggler one.

 

Or again as a prestige class.

 

Droid would not be romanceable for one. And then there's the fact that your gear will never visually change. Add in the fact that with few exceptions, droids are required to serve their masters. That doesn't leave for a very heroic personal story.

[JacenHallis]

Please, stop while you're ahead... I wasn't suggesting Star Wars change its theme. You took my words out of context. Just because a Human has a prosthetic replacement limb doesn't make him a Cyborg. So before you quote someone on a public forum simply for the sake of rediculing them, you should probably examine the "spirit" or intent of the post. It will make you appear less stupid in the future.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cyborg

 

The game fits in with the Star Wars definition of cyborg. There are some cyborgs with very extensive modifications and replacements, such as Darth Vader, and a few NPCs in the game like Ukabi. But, for the most part, a cyborg in Star Wars is just someone who has a cybernetic enhancement or prosthesis.

 

My post was not intended to ridicule anyone. It may be a bit harsh in tone, but after hearing the same complaints day in, day out, my tone gets harsh. Perhaps you should probably examine the "spirit" of the post and read up on what constitutes a cyborg in Star Wars. It will make you appear less stupid in the future.

[sharpenedstick]

The principle reason why these things won't be implemented is because Bioware only wants you to have certain types of play experiences, and they've decided that extremely non-human races aren't part of their picture.

 

I have no doubt that the technical challenges, though far from unresolvable, are not trivial. But look at what other games have managed to do. WoW added flight to all the regions in the game. You're telling me its Star Wars clone isn't good enough to resolve clipping in a few rendered movies? The reality is they could provide more alien races. It's just that Bioware is all about controlling the user's play experience.

 

This isn't Orwellian, it's just that their studio has a design philosophy based around absolute control. That's the only way to provide a "cinematic" experience. Movies are just about the most planned, controlled, and contrived (not in a bad way) form of entertainment there is, and Bioware's stated goal is to provide games in the same vein.

 

Do you think it's a mystery why level designs are so straightforward? Why play is so linear? Why planets are so railroaded and there are no day/night cycles? Why space is a railshooter?

 

Once you accept that Bioware's goal is to deliver the game they want you to play, it becomes easier to understand why they make the decisions they do.

[Costello]

Anything that adds to the feel of star wars is a good thing. Even more so when it allows players more choice and gives people that want to play more alien speces an insentive to log in and play the game.

[Draegaar]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cyborg

 

The game fits in with the Star Wars definition of cyborg. There are some cyborgs with very extensive modifications and replacements, such as Darth Vader, and a few NPCs in the game like Ukabi. But, for the most part, a cyborg in Star Wars is just someone who has a cybernetic enhancement or prosthesis.

 

My post was not intended to ridicule anyone. It may be a bit harsh in tone, but after hearing the same complaints day in, day out, my tone gets harsh. Perhaps you should probably examine the "spirit" of the post and read up on what constitutes a cyborg in Star Wars. It will make you appear less stupid in the future.

 

You're posting this because you have a need to feel superior to other people. Your "tone" isn't harsh, it was disdainful. You still don't get what I meant, obviously, because you're still going on with your original idea- which means you've considered no other ideas. You've just recycled my post, and then twisted it around in an effort to support your statements, which is what I'm accustomed to from your type of Dreg. If you don't like people complaining on this forum, then spend your time somewhere else. I pay for this game, that gives me a legitimate right to complain about it as much as I want to. In any case, you're a nobody to me, so ill keep posting whatever I want, and then laugh at you when you snivel about it.

[waterboytkd]

I want Nogrhi! We get Chiss, so why not them?

[Khayleth]

Player races must fit three categories:

 

1. They must speak basic. This eliminates most of the species that players "want". And I completely agree with it.

 

2. They must make sense for romance arcs. This eliminates many of the other species players "want". And I completely agree with it as well.

 

3. They must be able to work with the animations and gear of the game. This is the big technical limitation and imo, the most limiting factor. If they could work around this, and I think they probably will develop the ability to do so at some point, then I think we will see more exotic races.

 

Either way, I personally really do not see the big deal. All of my characters are all human anyways. I like to identify with my characters.

 

I don't agree with 1, I don't even listen to the alien talking honestly, I read the text (I'm a quick reader) and space bar to the next one, plus maybe the person wants that.

 

As for 2 I can agree with that, but on the other hand I don't think the non-basic aliens should fit in to the existing classes, rather they should get ones of their own. I.E. Trandoshans, what do we see a lot of them using? Duel vibroswords, rifles, and heavy cannons. Make a unique class for them with a story as to why the character is with them, the wookies on corellia are allied with the republic, they use single vibroswords and rifles while the Trandoshans that serve the empire on Denova were mercenaries. I would think give them their own story with romance options of the same species.

 

3. All the npc's seem to use the same stances and model with slightly different graphics on the outside but I think most people would have a problem not being able to see their gear (in some cases).

[Admiral_Petty]

I don't agree with 1, I don't even listen to the alien talking honestly, I read the text (I'm a quick reader) and space bar to the next one, plus maybe the person wants that.

 

As for 2 I can agree with that, but on the other hand I don't think the non-basic aliens should fit in to the existing classes, rather they should get ones of their own. I.E. Trandoshans, what do we see a lot of them using? Duel vibroswords, rifles, and heavy cannons. Make a unique class for them with a story as to why the character is with them, the wookies on corellia are allied with the republic, they use single vibroswords and rifles while the Trandoshans that serve the empire on Denova were mercenaries. I would think give them their own story with romance options of the same species.

 

3. All the npc's seem to use the same stances and model with slightly different graphics on the outside but I think most people would have a problem not being able to see their gear (in some cases).

 

I like your idea for number 2, too bad that will never be a reality.

 

I personally think that SWTOR's story is the best part(most would probably agree), and its greatest strength. However it is also its greatest weakness for future content purposes. Adding a whole new class would come with a great deal of hangups development wise. Consider the massive amount of development, time and money that went into the game originally. The voice acting alone would be ridiculous for resources.

 

This is the same reason that it isn't likely that we will ever see much more development of class stories(although I am hopeful for more companions with actual stories, or more stories for some existing ones). Also the reason that more content other than raids and warzones takes longer to implement.

 

Then the aspect of story dictates why it generally wouldn't make sense to incorporate outlandish species as player characters from an immersion level, which has been mentioned over and over. Although I still love the idea of a future expansion of your idea, no matter how unlikely that is

 

So even though I love the story aspect and don't wish that it was done differently, it is a major hangup for future content.

 

Regardless I would love to see new species added a player characters

[Goretzu]

Alot of these aliens would have no clipping issues, they could just have not head piece. Similar to the twi'lek not having a hood up option.

 

Alot of these aliens are simply a different head and skin color difference

 

Again, you brought back the jibberish. Now to me I am sure i am not alone. Its been a year already of the same lines spoke by the same classes. "murder and mayhem await" is no less jibberish than some aline garble.

 

I loved the sullustan cop on coruscant and would much rather have a character like that for my jedi knight sentinal because i already have a jedi knight guardian and his vo is already being used. I hate that they would sound the same and i would rather roll a alien gibberish than a female for the VO.

 

 

Certainly the latter planets and the dailys have a LOT of canned responses, which is certainly no better than listening to wookie(e)s.

 

Makeb may be like this too,

[odonoghuet]

Whatever Bioware chooses to focus on there are always valid reasons, and if the technical hurdle for new species is too large I guess I'd rather see the game progress as a whole rather than be bogged down for a long time to develop a few species. I think the reception of the Cathar will determine that decision.

 

I agree that the Cathar will shape the future of racial choices and look forward to the release. But I so fear mismanagement being the downfall of this avenue for expansion. The early advertisement then lack of advertisement I find unsettling.

[Urantia]

Droid would not be romanceable for one. And then there's the fact that your gear will never visually change. Add in the fact that with few exceptions, droids are required to serve their masters. That doesn't leave for a very heroic personal story.

 

Well there is that. I have to admit when I mentioned this ancient/unoriginal idea I was not thinking about romance and vanity. I would need an ego in real life to likely consider that. I would still liked to have had the option. Using the current game model to shoot it down, however, if false reasoning. I was merely, "for the heck of it", just mentioning an old idea...one derived from minds that had no chance of seeing the game yet....so their imaginations were still wide open.

 

That is not to say it would be impossible to implement with limitations. Players opting for this course would perhaps have no romance and would have to be content with few vanity options etc. Suffice to say...having long since seen the game and every possible story dark/light combo I concur to a degree that being a droid would be less than likely. I would still make a playable droid with server limitations if allowed. As would many others I bet. It would be tricky on the story...and certainly require some reworking of a few things...which would/could likely prove why it was never done.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Urantia

[Izorii]

I agree that the Cathar will shape the future of racial choices and look forward to the release. But I so fear mismanagement being the downfall of this avenue for expansion. The early advertisement then lack of advertisement I find unsettling.

 

The fact that Cathar will be shaping future races concerns me. I can imagine the argument, If they dont sell they will say that people dont want new species. If they do sell then they will argue that people want more human species and no one wants aliens.

 

Personally I really dont want Cathar but I will buy the ****** species just to hopefully get a Kel'dor or Gran as playable.