Stun Stuns yet more stuns

[Ceyvel]

Man, I had forgotten how horrible PvP discussion topics are.

 

Resolve not working? Eh, try actually looking at your resolve bar instead of blaming it every time you die during a stun. Every stunning ability fills a certain part of your resolve bar. Get a clue before complaining, guys.

 

Stunlocked to death? Use an escaping ability immediately and then either a pushback or leap/speed increasing ability right after. Been PvPing regularily since early summer last year and there were less than a dozen moments when I had ABSOLUTELY no chance to escape because my abilities were on cooldown. In other times it was all my fault and me playing plain bad and slow.

 

And complaining about going from 100% to 0% during a stun when you had 3+ players beating you up. Yeah, lets blame resolve because it didn't magically make you invulnerable so you can survive that. All you guys are complaining about is literally that resolve doesn't help you when you get overwhelmed.

 

And if you get stunlock-killed by 1 or 2 enemy players. I am sorry, you need to do more PvP and get better, as in to learn how to properly react to a stun in different circumstances and how to do it fast. Also stay close to teammates, otherwise be prepared to get stunlocked to death sometimes. You are not supposed to survive 3+ players bashing on you and resolve isn't supposed to help you in any way. Learn to avoid those situations.

 

Such a shame the topic is full of cry babies, who fail to give the problem a decent thought and do a series of non biased observations themselves and then analyse what was done wrong on their part and what could be done different. All to see how in fact it looks like, when they are not going ape because of yet another death during a stun.

 

As a person that spends 100% of my time in game PvPing, the main stuns are fine. The only issue with stuns at the moment is bubble stun.

 

I have the same opinion and I hope Bioware CMs doesn't pass complains from players who are still in the process of learning how to avoid stunlocks or overwhelming attacks.

 

I play Shadow defender spec and a Gunslinger and enjoy balance in SWTOR more than any other MMORPG. AoE Smash is the only thing that I find somewhat annoying because of it's wa-a-ay too powerful AoE component.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Ceyvel

[Prysha]

Well im not sure what class ist is but i believe its the smuggler /scoundrel... but everytimei figth against them i get stunned, then i use stunbreaker, he stuns me again...then he kicks or punches me, then stuns me again... and repeat...im rarely able to hit back unless im spamming my attack buttons like a lunatic...but also this is difficult...and sometimes it dont work :/

[Ceyvel]

However, to prevent the overall frustration I would increase the cooldown for most of long-duration stuns up to 1.5 minutes. This should force more people to keep their the stun ability from firing mindlessly, but more often keep it as a defensive measure instead. Edited January 29, 2013 by Ceyvel

[Prysha]

or make stun dissapear when got hit and after tthis you have like 3 seconds immunity =)

[Ceyvel]

Well im not sure what class ist is but i believe its the smuggler /scoundrel... but everytimei figth against them i get stunned, then i use stunbreaker, he stuns me again...then he kicks or punches me, then stuns me again... and repeat...im rarely able to hit back unless im spamming my attack buttons like a lunatic...but also this is difficult...and sometimes it dont work :/

 

That is what a Scoundrel/Operative is capable to do. And I never get into those situations unless I don't have a CC_breaking ability ready or unless I "derp, what to do now, my brain must need a reboot ???" and stay still after breaking their initial stun. Instead of trying to escape or pushing the enemy away immediately.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Ceyvel

[Never_Hesitate]

Stunlocked to death? Use an escaping ability immediately and then either a pushback or leap/speed increasing ability right after. Been PvPing regularily since early summer last year and there were less than a dozen moments when I had ABSOLUTELY no chance to escape because my abilities were on cooldown. In other times it was all my fault and me playing plain bad and slow.

 

Yes, I just knock them back with my sorc and bam there they are again, I just got 10m away so they can have their auto crits on smash without spendung rage.

 

And complaining about going from 100% to 0% during a stun when you had 3+ players beating you up. Yeah, lets blame resolve because it didn't magically make you invulnerable so you can survive that. All you guys are complaining about is literally that resolve doesn't help you when you get overwhelmed.

 

Do not blame resolve, do blame high burst dmg, when one played kills you in 1 stun.

 

And if you get stunlock-killed by 1 or 2 enemy players. I am sorry, you need to do more PvP and get better, as in to learn how to properly react to a stun in different circumstances and how to do it fast. Also stay close to teammates, otherwise be prepared to get stunlocked to death sometimes. You are not supposed to survive 3+ players bashing on you and resolve isn't supposed to help you in any way. Learn to avoid those situations.

 

Of course I will stay with my teammates when two operatives appear while I'm deffing the turret in alderaan.

 

Such a shame the topic is full of cry babies, who fail to give the problem a decent thought and do a series of non biased observations themselves and then analyse what was done wrong on their part and what could be done different. All to see how in fact it looks like, when they are not going ape because of yet another death during a stun.

 

just like the ones who cry about stun bubble and do not look at what the heal sorc should do without it?

 

I have the same opinion and I hope Bioware CMs doesn't pass complains from players who are still in the process of learning how to avoid stunlocks or overwhelming attacks.

 

I play Shadow defender spec and a Gunslinger and enjoy balance in SWTOR more than any other MMORPG. AoE Smash is the only thing that I find somewhat annoying because of it's wa-a-ay too powerful AoE component.

 

Because you play two high dmg speccs, you only complain about the even stronger class, gg

 

 

^ See in red

[Goretzu]

Stunlocked to death? Use an escaping ability immediately and then either a pushback or leap/speed increasing ability right after. Been PvPing regularily since early summer last year and there were less than a dozen moments when I had ABSOLUTELY no chance to escape because my abilities were on cooldown. In other times it was all my fault and me playing plain bad and slow.

 

This happens a LOT and it's very difficult to avoid because the CC break ability is on a LONG cooldown due to PvE issues (it is far, far too long for PvP).

 

This simply isn't an issue in MMORPGs with a better designed PvP CC system.

 

 

Resolve not working? Eh, try actually looking at your resolve bar instead of blaming it every time you die during a stun. Every stunning ability fills a certain part of your resolve bar. Get a clue before complaining, guys.

 

Resolve does something, this is true. However that is a VERY different thing to it being "fit for purpose", which it most definately is not.

 

It doesn't do what it is supposed to do better than a series of immunity timers (as can be seen in say WAR), it is in fact considerably worse than a series of immunity timers.

[Ceyvel]

Yes, I just knock them back with my sorc and bam there they are again, I just got 10m away so they can have their auto crits on smash without spendung rage.

And how is that a stunlock/resolve issue we are discussing here?

 

Do not blame resolve, do blame high burst dmg, when one played kills you in 1 stun.

Heh, and how is that a stunlock/resolve issue we are discussing here?

 

Of course I will stay with my teammates when two operatives appear while I'm deffing the turret in alderaan.

Sure that happens. In one out of over a dozen battles. You can't have a game balanced in any situation. And for me those situations only show that stealth gives too much advantage in Warzones and should have a certain duration or some other handicap to make it less powerful.

 

Such a shame the topic is full of cry babies, who fail to give the problem a decent thought and do a series of non biased observations themselves and then analyse what was done wrong on their part and what could be done different. All to see how in fact it looks like, when they are not going ape because of yet another death during a stun.

 

just like the ones who cry about stun bubble and do not look at what the heal sorc should do without it?

How is that related to what I said??

 

Because you play two high dmg speccs, you only complain about the even stronger class, gg

High damage spec doesn't make you instantly ignore other classes. Beside from doing a lot of damage one needs to have ways to survive.However, unlike Shadows/Assassins/Warriors/Knights and Powertechs/Vanguards the class has weaker defenses in equal gear. And I am not complaining about that.

Defense PvE specced Shadow does twice less damage at best than Gunslinger. I am there as a meatshield and help with stunning healers. And sometimes steal frags because of a good finisher. All other abilities never crit for more than 2.5k damage.

Fail argument.

[Never_Hesitate]

How is that related to what I said??

 

 

Quote: Originally Posted by jibboo View Post

As a person that spends 100% of my time in game PvPing, the main stuns are fine. The only issue with stuns at the moment is bubble stun.

I have the same opinion

 

With this in your last post ^

 

And how is that a stunlock/resolve issue we are discussing here?

 

 

Heh, and how is that a stunlock/resolve issue we are discussing here?

 

These where answers to your offered solutions

Edited January 29, 2013 by Never_Hesitate

[Ceyvel]

Quote: Originally Posted by jibboo View Post

As a person that spends 100% of my time in game PvPing, the main stuns are fine. The only issue with stuns at the moment is bubble stun.

I have the same opinion

 

With this in your last post ^

 

Ah, that. I don't remember bubble stuns being much of a problem. Sages/Sorcs seem to have hard time against melee classes. While ranged classes can't care any less if it stuns or not. And yes, I wasn't clear enough. I agreed with his first sentence.

 

These where answers to your offered solutions

Sure, that might be an issue. But it has nothing to do with resolve.

 

Resolve does something, this is true. However that is a VERY different thing to it being "fit for purpose", which it most definately is not.

 

It doesn't do what it is supposed to do better than a series of immunity timers (as can be seen in say WAR), it is in fact considerably worse than a series of immunity timers.

 

Resolve is meant to prevent you from being constantly knocked back or stunned. And it doesn't work only when you have 3+ players bashing on you, because the damage is so high you die before your full resolve bar can help you against anything else.

 

In all other cases resolve works as intended. I use two stuns and the following knockback to interrupt a healing spell fills the healer's resolve bar immune. If there wasn't another damage from other players resolve will keep him immune for stuns and knockbacks for the next 15 or so seconds. How is that not working as intended is beyond me.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Ceyvel

[Goretzu]

Resolve is meant to prevent you from being constantly knocked back or stunned. And it doesn't work only when you have 3+ players bashing on you, because the damage is so high you die before your full resolve bar can help you against anything else.

 

In all other cases resolve works as intended. I use two stuns and the following knockback to interrupt a healing spell fills the healer's resolve bar immune. If there wasn't another damage from other players resolve will keep him immune for stuns and knockbacks for the next 15 or so seconds. How is that not working as intended is beyond me.

 

It doesn't do that either.

 

Effectively it doesn't stop you being stunlocked to death, it doesn't really stop you from being permenantely CC'd in a real sense (by the time it's immunity kicks in you'll be dead in 99% of situations against even a vaguely organised PuG).

 

It basically does nothing really.

 

Compared to a system of immunity timers which are simply and do exactly what the are supposed to do.

 

It's no wonder SO many people complain about SWTOR PvP and its CC, because it is terrible.

 

The strange thing is they had many people that worked on WAR and even DAoC working on it, yet seem to take NO lessons from those games and in fact made the worse things worse.

 

 

I suspect they thought their "clever" resolve idea would work, but the reality is simply that it is not fit for purpose and should be scrapped and replaced with a series of immunity timers that actually WORK.

[Ceyvel]

It doesn't do that either.

 

Effectively it doesn't stop you being stunlocked to death, it doesn't really stop you from being permenantely CC'd in a real sense (by the time it's immunity kicks in you'll be dead in 99% of situations against even a vaguely organised PuG).

I gave you a real in-game example of a situation when it works. Which can be extrapolated to other CC abilities used by other classes for the same result - resolve is bar is full after 2-3 consecutive non-overlapping CC abilities are used. And you say it doesn't in response. Logic???

 

You die so much while permanently CCed, I'm afraid you need to change your tactic in PvP scenarios. Especially so if that happens so often with you against PuGs. In any warzone (except for carring a ball in Huttball) there is a way to avoid being outnumbered and slaughtered if you play careful and charge in only when you are sure there is no backup coming from a spawn point.

 

Anyway, the main point is:

Resolve works in 1vs1-2 or 2v2 scenarios. And works almost fine. It is not supposed to help you when you are being overwhelmed by a greater amount of players.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Ceyvel

[Goretzu]

I gave you a real in-game example of a situation when it works. You can extrapolate the example to other CC abilities used by other classes for the same result - resolve is bar is full after 2-3 consecutive non-overlapping CC abilities are used. And you say it doesn't in response. Logic???

 

You die so much while permanently CCed, I'm afraid you need to change your tactic in PvP scenarios. Especially so if that happens so often with you against PuGs. In any warzone (except for carring a ball in Huttball) there is a way to avoid being outnumbered and slaughtered if you play careful and charge in only when you are sure there is no backup coming from a spawn point.

 

Resolve works in 1vs1-2 or 2v2 scenarios. And works almost fine. It is not supposed to help you when you are being zerged.

 

 

Immunity timers do everything the Resolve bar does and more.

 

I'm not saying there aren't some circumstance where the Resolve bar does its job, I'm saying there are many (far too many) where the Resolve bar does NOT do its job. Instances where the tried and tested immunity timer systems would work.

 

Hence it is NOT fit for purpose - it was a nice idea, but it should be scrapped and replaced with a system of immunity timers that actually ARE fit for purpose (al la WAR).

 

 

 

Or to put it another way, in what was is say WARs PvP CC system subpar to SWTORs? None that I can think of.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Goretzu

[andreas_barth]

 

Anyway, the main point is:

Resolve works in 1vs1-2 or 2v2 scenarios. And works almost fine. It is not supposed to help you when you are being overwhelmed by a greater amount of players.

 

This this this this. ^^

People need to be thinking about a change of tactics if they find themself in situations where they are outnumbered all the time.

Edited January 30, 2013 by andreas_barth

[Drudenfusz]

The resolve bar might work, but it is just not very useful when playing actual PvP. Sure, if I run in the open world randomly into someone it is good enough, but it is crap for actual PvP teams in rated warzones. because you are dead before it goes white, and when you are back in the action you can get stunned again... it is basically as if it is not there at all. But casual PvP players might not see this, and the developers of Bioware seem like they are also not any good in PvP, that's why they don't fix the issue.

[kijthae]

I think you havent played any other mmo or you havent played any other mmo since you have started to play swtor. You are in stun for 80 seconds of a 120 seconds fight in a popular mmo played by a mass.You are stunned for 8 seconds in swtor in a 120 seconds fight.If you feel you are constantly target of control effects at warzones coming from different players then it means you dont know how to avoid them.

[Never_Hesitate]

Ah, that. I don't remember bubble stuns being much of a problem. Sages/Sorcs seem to have hard time against melee classes. While ranged classes can't care any less if it stuns or not. And yes, I wasn't clear enough. I agreed with his first sentence.

 

Ok, it just seemed odd for you to have this sentence about the stun bubble in your post

 

Sure, that might be an issue. But it has nothing to do with resolve.

No, but with stuns, ccs and roots which are the topic of this thread.

[Goretzu]

This this this this. ^^

People need to be thinking about a change of tactics if they find themself in situations where they are outnumbered all the time.

 

If you're attacked 1 v 8 you're dead anyway, there's no need for "stun to death" in that situation.

 

Although with a functional immunities system you might at least be able to tie them up for a while.

[nosmos]

I had not pvp'd in a long time until the past few days. I decided to grind up some stuff for my marauder - and had to endure 3-4 days of the most frustrating experience in swtor i've had. Seriously, I wanted to punch something. I had a bunch of battlemaster stuff, so I was not in complete PVE gear.

 

Here's how it went: Force charge to a guy or into a group. Flash banged, the breaks - someones sorc bubble breaks, stunned. I recover, then im cc'd - so i break free, my resolve is full and another sorc bubble breaks and im stunned.

 

It's a 24/7 stun fast if your anything but range. For the first few months after launch I pvp'd a lot on my sorc - and we didnt NEED too many defensive cool downs then because we had burst. If we got caught up close, we were dead. So they nerf that, and now the bubble stuns and knock back roots.....It's really bad Bioware...really, really..bad.

 

I know you've said you want to do something about it - but you should have hot-fixed that months ago.

 

Making it so anyone bubbled stuns someone is not a SORC DEFENSIVE COOL DOWN - it is, in fact, a great advantage for the team. It's a constant team-wide BUFF.

 

If you plan on leaving this in - make it so when I force shroud on my SIN, everyone force shrouds. Or when I hit undying Rage on my marauder, everyone gets 99 percent damage reduction. How about, when I force cloak, everyone force cloaks - hrmm, see my point?

Edited January 30, 2013 by nosmos

[Ryofo]

If pvp in swtor is fine and balanced why is it all the serious pvpers who came at launch have left? and bear in mind these people left before smashmonkeys and bubble stun. Edited January 30, 2013 by Ryofo

[Never_Hesitate]

If pvp in swtor is fine and balanced why is it all the serious pvpers who came at launch have left? and bear in mind these people left before smashmonkeys and bubble stun.

 

the announcements of rwz's and cross-server queues in 1.2 brought a huge junk of players leave

[Goretzu]

the announcements of rwz's and cross-server queues in 1.2 brought a huge junk of players leave

 

If did.

 

However there were/are a lot of other reasons too.

 

 

1. Engine couldn't handle more than ~16v16 without falling over.

2. RvR was terrible and then removed entirely

3. CC was designed for PvE and Resolve simply isn't fit for purpose for PvP

4. No OPvP effectively.

 

There maybe more.

 

However if you ignore the CC problems the mechanics and balance of SWTOR PvP is pretty good, if they could just fix the above then SWTOR would have excellent PvP (and RvR).

[Kazmtyh]

and resolve does in fact work.

 

It works. It just doesn't work very well. They need to make knock-downs, holds and pushes add more to the bar. Stuns and sleeps add the right amount, but there is a lot more CC in the game than just that.

[Ecaj]

Yes because the facts people can take you from 100% to 0% health during a stun is logical, even worst is the fact they can stun you twice. Stuns should act similar to a mez in PVP: After 2 seconds any damage done to the target will break the CC. Problem solved.

 

I'm not a fan of stuns, but I understand why they're in the game (funny though that bosses are almost always made immune to them, if they're op for boss fights... just saying)

 

I agree 100% that NO class should be able to keep damaging you without breaking the root, but it is what it is.

[Ecaj]

It works. It just doesn't work very well. They need to make knock-downs, holds and pushes add more to the bar. Stuns and sleeps add the right amount, but there is a lot more CC in the game than just that.

 

I can't speak for others but I've often had full resolve and somehow still get stunlocked and gang attacked in pvp. So I'm not sure exactly what's going on but if others are having this happen to them too, I understand why so many think resolve is broken or not working.