Same gender romance discussion

[KjellHiep]

Has nobody ever asked Bioware/EA if they're willing to change all of the companions & encounters for money? As in, buy the change from the cartel market?

 

Those who have moral or other objections to such encounters/relationships could simply avoid them by not buying the pack & those who do want them can.

 

The money earned could be spent on the voice actors, in those cases that the text is gender specific & has to be changed.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I'd be willing to pay for it (if they implement something like this before 1 september) .

Edited June 4, 2013 by KjellHiep

[SithKoriandr]

Has nobody ever asked Bioware/EA if they're willing to change all of the companions & encounters for money? As in, buy the change from the cartel market?

 

Those who have moral or other objections to such encounters/relationships could simply avoid them by not buying the pack & those who do want them can.

 

The money earned could be spent on the voice actors, in those cases that the text is gender specific & has to be changed.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I'd be willing to pay for it (if they implement something like this before 1 september) .

 

The problem with this thought, is you then get the uptight, OMGWTF, "Now I have to Pay2Gay" upset.

 

When basically any sort of content like this, more stories, seem to be pay2obtain now, whether a sub or not.

[Bytemite]

It's pretty much the only way it could happen - unfortunately there are sociological issues and unfortunate implications raised by the "pay to gay" option.

 

I suppose it depends on how much the players want that feature and if they are willing to overlook feeling like they are being treated unfairly.

 

If they could package that feature in another feature offered for free that would appeal to all players and help them retain customers, that might also be viable. But I think this might be unlikely due to the cartel market and recent updates.

[KjellHiep]

It's pretty much the only way it could happen - unfortunately there are sociological issues and unfortunate implications raised by the "pay to gay" option.

 

I suppose it depends on how much the players want that feature and if they are willing to overlook feeling like they are being treated unfairly.

 

If they could package that feature in another feature offered for free that would appeal to all players and help them retain customers, that might also be viable. But I think this might be unlikely due to the cartel market and recent updates.

 

Yes, it'd be pay2gay essentially, mostly because I doubt they've added the voices to the original game (I know, it's not bioware's smartest move) & hiring the voice actors again, plus adjusting the game files in such a way that it'd actually be usable in game will probably cost quite a bit of money. So if bioware wants to be paid for it, then I'll relent on that part & pay for it.

 

Another option would be to add a menu option at the next update where you can choose straight, bisexual or gay/lesbian. Those who are against anything but straight relationships would set the option to straight, those who dislike straight relationships would set it to gay/lesbian & those who like some diversity would set it to bisexual. Bisexual would also cause a roll call (off screen, the player wouldn't notice it & only see the result) whenever an encounter takes place to decide if it'd be a straight or gay/lesbian encounter, assuming that programming something like this wouldn't be too difficult.

Still, since bioware/EA would have to adjust the game & that'd once again cost money, I doubt they'd do it.

 

Option nr. 3 would be to simply boycott the game. (the following applies to me, but I think they apply to a lot of other players as well) My female characters simply do not have any decent romanceable options available to them (not for me anyway) & my 1 male character does not have the correct personality. Simply put, the entire idea of romancing, even though the concept is good, simply doesn't exist in this game for me. Of course, a boycott would only work if

A. the people who want this are subscribers

B. If they're willing to join

 

I have to admit, option nr. 3 could be seen as a bit childish, but if one compares it to more mundane matters like having a subscription to a magazine that doesn't feature the articles you want (besides the ones you can find a lot cheaper in other magazines), people would actually tell you you're mad when you stay subscribed to said magazine.

 

Still, option nr. 3 is the option I myself like the least and I'm actually hoping that bioware will spend some money on the voice actors. Like I already said in my previous post, I'd be willing to pay for it (assuming the price they ask isn't too high).

 

The sad thing is that this is an online game. Bioware's previous games could be edited to modify it in such a way that the games suited the wants & needs of the players. If I wanted to romance another character in Baldur's gate 2 Shadows of Amn, Dragon Age, KoToR (I & II) or Mass Effect, I'd simply look on the net for an applicable mod & modify my game. This option is not available in an MMO. Bioware & EA SHOULD have given this some thought, but sadly, they didn't. (although as far as EA is concerned, I'm not really surprised. I haven't had much positive to say about them since they took over Origin in the '90s).

Edited June 4, 2013 by KjellHiep

[SithKoriandr]

Yes, it'd be pay2gay essentially, mostly because I doubt they've added the voices to the original game (I know, it's not bioware's smartest move) & hiring the voice actors again, plus adjusting the game files in such a way that it'd actually be usable in game will probably cost quite a bit of money. So if bioware wants to be paid for it, then I'll relent on that part & pay for it.

 

Another option would be to add a menu option at the next update where you can choose straight, bisexual or gay/lesbian. Those who are against anything but straight relationships would set the option to straight, those who dislike straight relationships would set it to gay/lesbian & those who like some diversity would set it to bisexual. Bisexual would also cause a roll call (off screen, the player wouldn't notice it & only see the result) whenever an encounter takes place to decide if it'd be a straight or gay/lesbian encounter, assuming that programming something like this wouldn't be too difficult.

Still, since bioware/EA would have to adjust the game & that'd once again cost money, I doubt they'd do it.

 

Option nr. 3 would be to simply boycott the game. (the following applies to me, but I think they apply to a lot of other players as well) My female characters simply do not have any decent romanceable options available to them (not for me anyway) & my 1 male character does not have the correct personality. Simply put, the entire idea of romancing, even though the concept is good, simply doesn't exist in this game for me. Of course, a boycott would only work if

A. the people who want this are subscribers

B. If they're willing to join

 

I have to admit, option nr. 3 could be seen as a bit childish, but if one compares it to more mundane matters like having a subscription to a magazine that doesn't feature the articles you want (besides the ones you can find a lot cheaper in other magazines), people would actually tell you you're mad when you stay subscribed to said magazine.

 

Still, option nr. 3 is the option I myself like the least and I'm actually hoping that bioware will spend some money on the voice actors. Like I already said in my previous post, I'd be willing to pay for it (assuming the price they ask isn't too high).

 

The sad thing is that this is an online game. Bioware's previous games could be edited to modify it in such a way that the games suited the wants & needs of the players. If I wanted to romance another character in Baldur's gate 2 Shadows of Amn, Dragon Age, KoToR (I & II) or Mass Effect, I'd simply look on the net for an applicable mod & modify my game. This option is not available in an MMO. Bioware & EA SHOULD have given this some thought, but sadly, they didn't. (although as far as EA is concerned, I'm not really surprised. I haven't had much positive to say about them since they took over Origin in the '90s).

 

Boycotting a game because it lacks a feature you want, is not childish. It's how you as a customer say "I want this or not at all" and it's then how BW/EA says "Okay here it is!" or "Sorry, tough luck."

 

The being childish part actually comes from those who think that because what they want isn't in the product, that they're targeted against or left out. No matter what product is put out, it won't target everyone.

 

For TOR that means they really didn't care to target the LGBT community and they didn't have to. Those who bought the game thinking they did and then post as if BW should or else it's anti LGBT, are the ones being the childish ones.

[Zandilar]

The problem with this thought, is you then get the uptight, OMGWTF, "Now I have to Pay2Gay" upset.

 

When basically any sort of content like this, more stories, seem to be pay2obtain now, whether a sub or not.

 

I don't even know where to begin with this. You've rendered me speechless (well as speechless as I ever get).

 

Do you know why people get upset by this idea SithKoriandr? I have a feeling you don't.

[SilentKitty]

Has nobody ever asked Bioware/EA if they're willing to change all of the companions & encounters for money? As in, buy the change from the cartel market?

 

Those who have moral or other objections to such encounters/relationships could simply avoid them by not buying the pack & those who do want them can.

 

The money earned could be spent on the voice actors, in those cases that the text is gender specific & has to be changed.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I'd be willing to pay for it (if they implement something like this before 1 september) .

 

Hmm... I would be willing to pay for it as well. But at the same time I don't see it happening as it is now. There has been no changes done if your character is a chiss on Hoth for the republic. There were no changes added for republic players playing a Cathar character on Ord Mantell, a npc explains what a Cathar is to you which feels a little odd. As much as I would enjoy romancing Elara with a female trooper, my guess is that this is not something that will be added anytime soon if ever. And with the first f/f-relationship being available at lvl 50 I haven't lvl:ed a single character to try it out, since I enjoy the f/m-relationships as well I have been playing them. Loved playing FemShep and Traynor, Liara, FemWarden and Leliana, FemHawke and Merrill, Izzy. But this feels like a different game, now I'm just hoping for more things to be added later on.

 

My hope is that they add a new companion for f/f- and m/m-relationships that just like HK-51 is available earlier in the game, that can be part of the lvl:ing story even if he/she cannot be a part of the main story. Not that I would prefer that, I would actually be much happier if you could have a f/f-romance with Elara but I just don't believe that they will go back and make such big changes. So I'm hoping for the things that I think can be added, hopefully, at some point.

 

Well, it's all guessing from my point. We will see where it ends up.

Edited June 5, 2013 by SilentKitty

[SithKoriandr]

I don't even know where to begin with this. You've rendered me speechless (well as speechless as I ever get).

 

Do you know why people get upset by this idea SithKoriandr? I have a feeling you don't.

 

Oh, I understood it before. Now, with how BW/EA seems to be going, not so much. Now it would just be standard practice.

 

New companion storyline missions? That's new content. Pay more money!

 

Did people have to pay for a new planet? Yes.

 

Did people have to pay for RNG dye packs? Yes.

 

Basically everything for TOR is becoming, additional content equals more money.

 

So instead of being upset by the idea of Pay2Gay (which btw, you had to pay for Makeb, which is the first of any SGR content, so it's P2G and no one seems upset by it so far) it's best to just sigh and accept that any and all new content is going to be paid for.

[KjellHiep]

Boycotting a game because it lacks a feature you want, is not childish. It's how you as a customer say "I want this or not at all" and it's then how BW/EA says "Okay here it is!" or "Sorry, tough luck."

 

The being childish part actually comes from those who think that because what they want isn't in the product, that they're targeted against or left out. No matter what product is put out, it won't target everyone.

 

For TOR that means they really didn't care to target the LGBT community and they didn't have to. Those who bought the game thinking they did and then post as if BW should or else it's anti LGBT, are the ones being the childish ones.

 

It's not 'merely' the LGBT community, I'm a guy in real life & I play female characters, yet I also like to date female characters. But this is a bit besides te point.

 

The reason people probably assumed that LGBT relationships would be available is that it wasn't mentioned anywhere that it'd be straight relationships only & that Bioware has a history of adding at least some kind of LGBT content to it's games (see list below).

 

Kotor had Juhani

Jade Empire had Silk Fox & Sky

Dragon Age I had Leliana & Zevran

Dragon Age II had Leliana, Zevran, Isabela, Merrill, Anders and Fenris

Mass Effect had Liara

Mass effect II had Kelly Chambers, Samara and Morinth

 

And last but not least

 

Mass effect III had Stever Cortez, Kaidan Alenko, Kelly Chambers, Liara T'Soni and Diana Allers

 

A lot of these characters were available for both genders and some of them only for the same gender.

 

Let's say I own a pie restaurant & you happen to like apple pie. You reserve a table at my restaurant and order an apple pie, after which i tell you that unless you visit my restaurant on a weekly basis every single week for at least a year and reserve that special table in the corner, I'll only serve you chocolate pie which, if you're willing to work with me here, you don't like.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you felt discriminated against, whether that feeling is correct/justified or not.

 

So instead of being upset by the idea of Pay2Gay (which btw, you had to pay for Makeb, which is the first of any SGR content, so it's P2G and no one seems upset by it so far) it's best to just sigh and accept that any and all new content is going to be paid for.

 

This is pure capitalism. Nothing more & nothing less. Since we live in a capitalistic world, this is to be expected. It's also why I won't bother complaining about it (I can't change the world).

 

To use my pie restaurant as an example again...

 

If I wanted to serve apple pie to customers, I'd probably have to hire a new cook or at least a cookbook that contains the recipe. I'd have to adjust my kitchen, so that the apple pie dough wouldn't be contaminated with chocolate, etc. (give me a break, I'm making this up while writing ).

 

Of course it would have been smarter had I initially reserved a part of my kitchen for apple pies, but alas, I wasn't that smart. Still, I need to make a profit (I need to eat & pay my rent as well (once again, we live in a capitalistic world & i can't tell the land owner that he'll have to forget about the rent for a few months just because I made a mistake)) so yes, I'd charge the people who want this. Not too much, as it'd scare them off, but still...

Edited June 5, 2013 by KjellHiep

[stormdrakelord]

It's not 'merely' the LGBT community, I'm a guy in real life & I play female characters, yet I also like to date female characters. But this is a bit besides te point.

 

The reason people probably assumed that LGBT relationships would be available is that it wasn't mentioned anywhere that it'd be straight relationships only & that Bioware has a history of adding at least some kind of LGBT content to it's games (see list below).

 

Kotor had Juhani

Jade Empire had Silk Fox & Sky

Dragon Age I had Leliana & Zevran

Dragon Age II had Leliana, Zevran, Isabela, Merrill, Anders and Fenris

Mass Effect had Liara

Mass effect II had Kelly Chambers, Samara and Morinth

 

And last but not least

 

Mass effect III had Steve Cortez, Kaidan Alenko, Kelly Chambers, Liara T'Soni, Samantha Traynor and Diana Allers

 

A lot of these characters were available for both genders and some of them only for the same gender.

 

Let's say I own a pie restaurant & you happen to like apple pie. You reserve a table at my restaurant and order an apple pie, after which i tell you that unless you visit my restaurant on a weekly basis every single week for at least a year and reserve that special table in the corner, I'll only serve you chocolate pie which, if you're willing to work with me here, you don't like.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you felt discriminated against, whether that feeling is correct/justified or not.

 

 

 

This is pure capitalism. Nothing more & nothing less. Since we live in a capitalistic world, this is to be expected. It's also why I won't bother complaining about it (I can't change the world).

 

To use my pie restaurant as an example again...

 

If I wanted to serve apple pie to customers, I'd probably have to hire a new cook or at least a cookbook that contains the recipe. I'd have to adjust my kitchen, so that the apple pie dough wouldn't be contaminated with chocolate, etc. (give me a break, I'm making this up while writing ).

 

Of course it would have been smarter had I initially reserved a part of my kitchen for apple pies, but alas, I wasn't that smart. Still, I need to make a profit (I need to eat & pay my rent as well (once again, we live in a capitalistic world & i can't tell the land owner that he'll have to forget about the rent for a few months just because I made a mistake)) so yes, I'd charge the people who want this. Not too much, as it'd scare them off, but still...

 

you missed Samantha, but good point about Bioware's history with having LGBT characters/romances in their games.

[SithKoriandr]

It's not 'merely' the LGBT community, I'm a guy in real life & I play female characters, yet I also like to date female characters. But this is a bit besides te point.

 

The reason people probably assumed that LGBT relationships would be available is that it wasn't mentioned anywhere that it'd be straight relationships only & that Bioware has a history of adding at least some kind of LGBT content to it's games (see list below).

 

Kotor had Juhani

Jade Empire had Silk Fox & Sky

Dragon Age I had Leliana & Zevran

Dragon Age II had Leliana, Zevran, Isabela, Merrill, Anders and Fenris

Mass Effect had Liara

Mass effect II had Kelly Chambers, Samara and Morinth

 

And last but not least

 

Mass effect III had Stever Cortez, Kaidan Alenko, Kelly Chambers, Liara T'Soni and Diana Allers

 

A lot of these characters were available for both genders and some of them only for the same gender.

 

Let's say I own a pie restaurant & you happen to like apple pie. You reserve a table at my restaurant and order an apple pie, after which i tell you that unless you visit my restaurant on a weekly basis every single week for at least a year and reserve that special table in the corner, I'll only serve you chocolate pie which, if you're willing to work with me here, you don't like.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you felt discriminated against, whether that feeling is correct/justified or not.

 

 

 

This is pure capitalism. Nothing more & nothing less. Since we live in a capitalistic world, this is to be expected. It's also why I won't bother complaining about it (I can't change the world).

 

To use my pie restaurant as an example again...

 

If I wanted to serve apple pie to customers, I'd probably have to hire a new cook or at least a cookbook that contains the recipe. I'd have to adjust my kitchen, so that the apple pie dough wouldn't be contaminated with chocolate, etc. (give me a break, I'm making this up while writing ).

 

Of course it would have been smarter had I initially reserved a part of my kitchen for apple pies, but alas, I wasn't that smart. Still, I need to make a profit (I need to eat & pay my rent as well (once again, we live in a capitalistic world & i can't tell the land owner that he'll have to forget about the rent for a few months just because I made a mistake)) so yes, I'd charge the people who want this. Not too much, as it'd scare them off, but still...

 

Problem is your analogy fails.

 

This is more like BW opening two Hamburger Restaurants (ME & DA) and then you the customer expecting their third new Pizza Restaurant (TOR) to serve hamburgers as well.

 

TOR is not ME which is not DA which is not any other BW project. It's like playing DA after I played ME and going "Where's my space ship?"

[Halinmonk]

Except Bioware DID "advertise as selling pizza" to put it in the analogy terms- SGR has been meant to be in the game since Beta and they still wish to put it in the game.

[Euphrosyne]

Problem is your analogy fails.

 

This is more like BW opening two Hamburger Restaurants (ME & DA) and then you the customer expecting their third new Pizza Restaurant (TOR) to serve hamburgers as well.

 

TOR is not ME which is not DA which is not any other BW project. It's like playing DA after I played ME and going "Where's my space ship?"

While it's true that certain thematic elements cannot reasonably be expected to be in all BioWare games, it's reasonable to believe that things independent of theme that are widely regarded to be hallmarks of BioWare games to be in BioWare games. For instance, BioWare games, irrespective of theme or franchise, tend to have romance subplots, and rely on strong dialogue and story-telling instead of mechanics. These things are not necessarily unique to BioWare games, but they're also not a standard element of games in general or RPGs specifically, and you can generally find them in every BioWare game. And, as the argument goes, another one of these hallmarks is a certain diversity of choice in sexual orientation when it comes to those romance subplots.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Euphrosyne

[SithKoriandr]

Except Bioware DID "advertise as selling pizza" to put it in the analogy terms- SGR has been meant to be in the game since Beta and they still wish to put it in the game.

 

Except there have been statements that no, they didn't intend for it. And in Beta, everyone was going "Where's the SGR?" as there wasn't any in beta at any point.

[SithKoriandr]

While it's true that certain thematic elements cannot reasonably be expected to be in all BioWare games, it's reasonable to believe that things independent of theme that are widely regarded to be hallmarks of BioWare games to be in BioWare games. For instance, BioWare games, irrespective of theme or franchise, tend to have romance subplots, and rely on strong dialogue and story-telling instead of mechanics. These things are not necessarily unique to BioWare games, but they're also not a standard element of games in general or RPGs specifically, and you can generally find them in every BioWare game. And, as the argument goes, another one of these hallmarks is a certain diversity of choice in sexual orientation when it comes to those romance subplots.

 

But really, it's not. It took ME3 for a m/m relationship to happen. So, I wouldn't call BW as open and diverse as people want to think.

 

And TOR has romantic subplots, it just lacked SGR options, which goes back to ME...oh look...had to get to the third game to get a m/m relationship going.

 

And if we're going to go by hallmarks being story-telling, and TOR is killing the story-telling aspect (which it is, as my Smuggler is now going the same storyline direction as my Consular for instance)...maybe it's time to stop thinking BW has hallmarks, and think TOR isn't typical BW console game.

[Kaenna]

Except Bioware DID "advertise as selling pizza" to put it in the analogy terms- SGR has been meant to be in the game since Beta and they still wish to put it in the game.

 

I think the current discussion has overlooked this aspect of things. While Bioware has been VERY stingy with information on this. Most of us feel Bioware has promised to add SGR content. I'm not sure on the details but I do feel Bioware has told us the content is coming.

 

Now, about adding it to the Cartel Items... I dislike the trend some games have taken in making you pay for almost everything they add after launch. If Bioware puts this into a Cartel Pack I'm going to be VERY upset! Adding SGRs to an expansion was one thing and something I can understand and go along with. Adding it to the Cartel is another and feels totally different to me!

 

I know not everyone will see things that way. But, that's how I feel on adding this to the Cartel!!!

[Halinmonk]

Bioware DID say they wanted SGR in the game, but it got lost early on with the other slew of problems they faced in the game.

 

However, now that the game is firmly on it's feet again it should be an issue any longer.

[SithKoriandr]

Bioware DID say they wanted SGR in the game, but it got lost early on with the other slew of problems they faced in the game.

 

However, now that the game is firmly on it's feet again it should be an issue any longer.

 

It got lost early enough, it wasn't seen in beta, so there was no reason to expect it in game when one bought it, as everyone knew it wasn't in game at the start.

 

Also, they've kept their word and added SGR to the game, and that's all they have to point to on that front. Though I'm sure on the next planet storyline there will be more SGR flirts.

 

We've heard nothing on any new companions, except if I recall correctly, that they would be difficult/expensive to implement.

 

Two words that tends to = You will have to pay for.

[Euphrosyne]

But really, it's not. It took ME3 for a m/m relationship to happen. So, I wouldn't call BW as open and diverse as people want to think.

 

And TOR has romantic subplots, it just lacked SGR options, which goes back to ME...oh look...had to get to the third game to get a m/m relationship going.

 

And if we're going to go by hallmarks being story-telling, and TOR is killing the story-telling aspect (which it is, as my Smuggler is now going the same storyline direction as my Consular for instance)...maybe it's time to stop thinking BW has hallmarks, and think TOR isn't typical BW console game.

But a male-male relationship isn't the totality of non-heterosexual relationships. (And Sky was open to a male-male relationship in Jade Empire anyway.) Yes, BioWare hasn't incorporated total equality for all potential sexual preferences in its romance subplots in all of its games. I'm hardly holding the company up as a perfect example to emulate in every way. But in general, it has incorporated at least some element of same-gender relationship in all of its games since KotOR. It would therefore not have been unreasonable, based on BioWare's past history, to have expected some kind of same-gender relationship in TOR.

[SithKoriandr]

But a male-male relationship isn't the totality of non-heterosexual relationships. (And Sky was open to a male-male relationship in Jade Empire anyway.) Yes, BioWare hasn't incorporated total equality for all potential sexual preferences in its romance subplots in all of its games. I'm hardly holding the company up as a perfect example to emulate in every way. But in general, it has incorporated at least some element of same-gender relationship in all of its games since KotOR. It would therefore not have been unreasonable, based on BioWare's past history, to have expected some kind of same-gender relationship in TOR.

 

You're right. M/M isn't the totality of non-heterosexual relationships. But lacking it, while making F/F possible, comes off as a "Let's cater to the fantasy of our male players!" and less about "Oh hey! Look at us! We're all about equality!"

[dewayne]

It got lost early enough, it wasn't seen in beta, so there was no reason to expect it in game when one bought it, as everyone knew it wasn't in game at the start.

 

Also, they've kept their word and added SGR to the game, and that's all they have to point to on that front. Though I'm sure on the next planet storyline there will be more SGR flirts.

 

We've heard nothing on any new companions, except if I recall correctly, that they would be difficult/expensive to implement.

 

Two words that tends to = You will have to pay for.

 

i personally wont mind paying so long as us subber this a good discount on them and for me maybe a two notice so i can be ready to buy..

[SithKoriandr]

i personally wont mind paying so long as us subber this a good discount on them and for me maybe a two notice so i can be ready to buy..

 

We have to buy dye to color our outfits. I can't help but think that no matter how they do new SGR content in TOR, we're all going to have to pay for it.

[theStirge]

We have to buy dye to color our outfits. I can't help but think that no matter how they do new SGR content in TOR, we're all going to have to pay for it.

 

You bring up the Cartel Market a lot as where you think this content is going to come from, but the only things on the Market are either purely cosmetic variations of things you can already get in-game for credits or through gameplay(gear, color crystals, pets, mounts), an alternative payment method for things you can already get in-game for credits or through gameplay(legacy unlocks, storage space), a few purely cosmetic things you can only get from the market(faction banners), boosts, character slots, or temporary unlocks of game systems that subscribers get as part of their subscription.

 

Yes, subscribers had to buy the expansion to play the expansion content. What, an MMO expansion you had to pay real money for? This is an outrage! Why, I have never! Good day, sir! I said good day! Sarcasm aside, what part of that leads you to believe that they will add story content(which romances certainly count as, homosexual or not) to the market? Especially when their stated stance is that they will not add story content to the market?

 

If and when they add more SGR, it will almost certainly be part of a larger expansion, the way what we did get was part of RotHC. It might still be part of this expansion, as unlikely as that seems. It's not like the stuff "on disc" has to be all of the expansion; to take the largest example, the most recent World of Warcraft expansion came out in September last year. The most recent large content patch came out last month, and the expansion isn't done yet.

 

I've ventured a bit far afield of the original point and thrown out tons of nitpick fodder, so I guess I'll stop there.

[Bytemite]

> Especially when their stated stance is that they won't add story content to the cartel market.

 

Wow, they probably shouldn't have made that promise. Subscribers are going going to flip tables if Bioware introduces SGR options for companions and/or new cartel companions and calls it a player customization instead of story content. There's already precedence here for cartel companions with HK.

 

Statements like that tend to fall through as soon as a business realizes people will pay for something.

 

It's like if a company puts out a well received graphics capability demo and people start asking when they can buy the game and reps say they have no plans for a game based on the demo. If they're not deaf, blind, or incompetent, you can start your watches and give it about two years.

[SithKoriandr]

Yes, subscribers had to buy the expansion to play the expansion content. What, an MMO expansion you had to pay real money for? This is an outrage! Why, I have never! Good day, sir! I said good day! Sarcasm aside, what part of that leads you to believe that they will add story content(which romances certainly count as, homosexual or not) to the market? Especially when their stated stance is that they will not add story content to the market?

 

If and when they add more SGR, it will almost certainly be part of a larger expansion, the way what we did get was part of RotHC. It might still be part of this expansion, as unlikely as that seems. It's not like the stuff "on disc" has to be all of the expansion; to take the largest example, the most recent World of Warcraft expansion came out in September last year. The most recent large content patch came out last month, and the expansion isn't done yet.

 

I've ventured a bit far afield of the original point and thrown out tons of nitpick fodder, so I guess I'll stop there.

 

Okay, even if they make it a small expansion like the last one (which CoH with that size of an expansion gave free, and WoW's expansions where always way bigger) then you're still paying. Whether it be in the cartel market or not, that's still paying.