Cythereal Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Because they seem to be tightening everything up, to make it all easier on them. Only two romances to worry about would make it very easy for them. :/ Personally, I hope they don't get rid of all original LIs. This. I think they're going to keep the original LIs but keep them heterosexual to simplify things and then just keep Lana and Theron as the only new romances, both hero/bi sexual again to keep things simple. I'd love to be proven wrong, though, but Bioware has been infamously silent about same-sex romance in TOR since launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Personally, I hope they don't get rid of all original LIs. They won't remove them they will return story-wise sooner or later in Season 1 but I think it's the last time it will happen. BW can drag along the giant baggage of 40 old companion (and their voice actors) only for so long. I think this is the one last big push for them, their stories resolved, romances/conflicts locked etc and after Season 1 they won't have new lines added, Lana/Koth and rest of new cast will take over fully for future seasons. At least that's what I expect Edited October 3, 2015 by Pietrastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphrosyne Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 One frustrating thing about the romances on Makeb was the sheer lack of content. Both Cytharat and Lemda Avesta had very few lines, and although Cytharat sends you a message (via Katha Niar) after he's had to be sent away for medical attention, Lemda doesn't even bother sending you a personal note - she lets her Uncle do that. I'm pretty sure that there's zero difference between Shalim's email to a Lemda-romancing Pub and a Pub who doesn't flirt with her. ....may I ask what is ''SOL''? I can't figure it out... It's an acronym. The first word is a swear word, but the other part stands for "out of luck". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 They won't remove them they will return story-wise sooner or later in Season 1 but I think it's the last time it will happen. BW can drag along the giant baggage of 40 old companion (and their voice actors) only for so long. I think this is the one last big push for them, their stories resolved, romances/conflicts locked etc and after Season 1 they won't have new lines added, Lana/Koth and rest of new cast will take over fully for future seasons. At least that's what I expect I don't expect all original LI's to make it, and I realize not all may be able to, but I do expect and believe they can, keep some of them around and continue them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zandilar Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Well, it is the lazy path, though they're already doing the lazy path now, so it wouldn't surprise me. Personally I'd rather have straight/gay npcs that said "Sorry, you're not my type." and of course bi's who go for the character, I just imagine them going with fewer, and me saying they only have 2 males/2 females to choose from, may have been generous on my part At the moment, we don't actually have evidence either way about Lana and Theron - they might both be genuine bisexual NPCs. I mean, there has already been an exclusively gay character in the game - Cytharat. I don't think you could flirt with him if you were female. (Lemda was like Theron and Lana, no evidence that she's bisexual beyond her responding to PCs of both genders, but she may well have been. Given that she appeared in the same expansion as Cytharat, I'm inclined to think that the writers intended her to be bisexual.) Anyway, here's a question - how do you establish an NPC is bisexual (rather than herosexual) without hitting players over the head with compulsory a "I had same sex and other sex lovers in the past" dialogue carried exposition to definitely mark them as such? If it were me, maybe a mention of past lovers of both genders in a codex entry, but even that's pretty anvilicious. I'm pretty sure that there's zero difference between Shalim's email to a Lemda-romancing Pub and a Pub who doesn't flirt with her. Really? Ugh. (None of my characters have declined flirting with her.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I don't expect all original LI's to make it, and I realize not all may be able to, but I do expect and believe they can, keep some of them around and continue them. They come in pack. All or nothing, there's really no reason to remove all Agent love interests yet keep Vetter for Warrior. Same goes for any other combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Well now is a good time for them to...cut the number of companions they need to do. Have only the romances and some new ones (like Marr - who can be very interesting companion considering he can take orders from an agent or BH/republic equivalent) and keep the rest as NPCs. More so as some of the companions are only there because the game forced you to have them (and half of them don't even have the excuse of Victor/Vector?...err...bugboy from the agent storyline your superior order you to take him ).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 At the moment, we don't actually have evidence either way about Lana and Theron - they might both be genuine bisexual NPCs. I mean, there has already been an exclusively gay character in the game - Cytharat. I don't think you could flirt with him if you were female. (Lemda was like Theron and Lana, no evidence that she's bisexual beyond her responding to PCs of both genders, but she may well have been. Given that she appeared in the same expansion as Cytharat, I'm inclined to think that the writers intended her to be bisexual.) Anyway, here's a question - how do you establish an NPC is bisexual (rather than herosexual) without hitting players over the head with compulsory a "I had same sex and other sex lovers in the past" dialogue carried exposition to definitely mark them as such? If it were me, maybe a mention of past lovers of both genders in a codex entry, but even that's pretty anvilicious. Really? Ugh. (None of my characters have declined flirting with her.) I never said that of Theron or Lana. In fact, I've thought of them as nothing but bi characters and not herosexual at all. The way to start to believe if it's one way or the other, is how the game turns out. Are all future companions romanceable by all players or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 They come in pack. All or nothing, there's really no reason to remove all Agent love interests yet keep Vetter for Warrior. Same goes for any other combination. The reason is, better storytelling. Yes, it might mean we lose great companions, but then it's at least interesting! if they just remove them all, it's complete laziness on their part, to trim it down to one storyline set of companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The reason is, better storytelling. Yes, it might mean we lose great companions, but then it's at least interesting! if they just remove them all, it's complete laziness on their part, to trim it down to one storyline set of companions. It's also laziness to remove some and play metrics game picking which go further. Lana/Theron and rest out is at least a clear cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Really? Ugh. (None of my characters have declined flirting with her.) Confirmed, I went through Makeb on one of my alts who romanced her [heterosexual] companion. The letter you get after Makeb is exactly the same. So's the one from Cytharat if he survives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 It's also laziness to remove some and play metrics game picking which go further. Lana/Theron and rest out is at least a clear cut Laziness to remove some? I think it adds some differences in the class stories. Female Consular loses her LI but the female Agent keeps hers! Yes, it might be nail biting trying to figure out who lives and who dies, but it would make for interesting story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Laziness to remove some? I think it adds some differences in the class stories. Female Consular loses her LI but the female Agent keeps hers! Yes, it might be nail biting trying to figure out who lives and who dies, but it would make for interesting story! Can't do that in an MMO. Kill off the consular LI? Consulars become objectively worse than the other seven classes from a romance standpoint. Can't do that in an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Can't do that in an MMO. Kill off the consular LI? Consulars become objectively worse than the other seven classes from a romance standpoint. Can't do that in an MMO. I disagree. I think it means they become more tragic. Also, to some it may give the Consular an advantage from a RP standpoint or just a story standpoint and maybe an easier way for them to move on from one LI to one of the new ones offered (like Lana and Theron) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) I disagree. I think it means they become more tragic. Also, to some it may give the Consular an advantage from a RP standpoint or just a story standpoint and maybe an easier way for them to move on from one LI to one of the new ones offered (like Lana and Theron) I don't think you understand what I meant. Killing the Consular LI would mean that Consulars (of one or more genders) don't have a LI, while the other classes do. That makes the other seven classes objectively superior to Consulars for one criterion. Unless you're a moron, you don't, as a developer, introduce intentional class favoritism like that for a multiplayer game. "Can't do that in an MMO." Edited October 5, 2015 by Diviciacus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 He's right, and I, for one, wouldn't care to be unable to romance because of either class or sexuality; and it would make no sense, since KotFE is supposed to be a class-less story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 /sigh I lost my post...again....are we allowed to hate the forum (at least how it is constructed) or do I need to fear a moderator coming after me to smite me with divine wrath? Also, to some it may give the Consular an advantage from a RP standpoint or just a story standpoint and maybe an easier way for them to move on from one LI to one of the new ones offered (like Lana and Theron) That is very good point actually....why can't the death of bug boy make the romance for the agent more interesting? Or give us the (very painful please:) ) death of Quinn so our Wrath can have a nice long laugh:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I don't think you understand what I meant. Killing the Consular LI would mean that Consulars (of one or more genders) don't have a LI, while the other classes do. That makes the other seven classes objectively superior to Consulars for one criterion. Unless you're a moron, you don't, as a developer, introduce intentional class favoritism like that for a multiplayer game. "Can't do that in an MMO." I said Female Consular. I'm not even saying kill the all of a classes LI's. I'm saying pick and choose based off of thought not "this class and this class" Losing a LI does not make the other classes who don't superior in any way other than your head as to which is the better story. By that line of thinking, then Smuggler story is the worst because they have the weakest of chapter 3 end boss with the least amount of investment in the end boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) I said Female Consular. I'm not even saying kill the all of a classes LI's. I'm saying pick and choose based off of thought not "this class and this class" Losing a LI does not make the other classes who don't superior in any way other than your head as to which is the better story. By that line of thinking, then Smuggler story is the worst because they have the weakest of chapter 3 end boss with the least amount of investment in the end boss. Right, if it's in my head - and I don't care since my Consular is faithful to Lana anyway - it'll be in someone else's head, too. And maybe that someone will care. And have ten thousand other people who care, too. And then we get a political ****-storm on the forums over it. (Have you seen the level adjustment threads? it's messy.) Your analogy is also flawed, because every class gets a final boss, even if the Smuggler one is thematically disappointing. If Consulars - even just female ones, which you'll end up with people decrying the move as sexist - lose their LI, a more apt comparison would be if Smugglers just didn't have Chapter 3 at all. GGWP, story ends on Hoth. It's something missing, that every other class has. It doesn't matter what is missing, that missing thing is, strinctly speaking, a class balance issue. A far more likely scenario is that either no LI's will die.... or all of them will. Requiescat in pace, everyone. Except Quinn. Edited October 5, 2015 by Diviciacus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) Laziness to remove some? I think it adds some differences in the class stories. Female Consular loses her LI but the female Agent keeps hers! Yes, it might be nail biting trying to figure out who lives and who dies, but it would make for interesting story! It doesn't add difference, it adds disparity in content. If what they offer would be an entire unique storyline about the breakup/dumping/widowing etc comparable in size to continued romance on the other option, then it would be an actual choice. When it's a choice between no content and lots of new content, it is obvious which one is better. The same goes for Dark/Light choices and any choices in RPGs. All should provide unique content and be worth checking out on replays. If creating a choice defaults to one of the options simply having no content, then it's just waste of time and no point offering fake choice at all really. The illusion doesn't work at all. Bioware RPGs fall into this way too often, especially with "dark" choices on killing NPCs which simply amount to losing out on content, instead of heaving alternate content Edited October 6, 2015 by Pietrastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Wrong. All content remains equal because some will get to experience the death of a LI and others will get to experience the LI remaining alive. Everyone does just fine with male Warriors, Smugglers and Agents having two choices of LIs. A few get one night stands others don't. Losing an LI for a few, a half, but not all, would be fine because people may complain at first, like they do on everything, they will move on afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeneas_Falco Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Are there any characters to which this thread applies, other than Lana and Theran, that one Czerka woman, and that one Sith lord whose name now escapes me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) Wrong. All content remains equal because some will get to experience the death of a LI and others will get to experience the LI remaining alive. What a nonsense. Content cannot be equal if one of the options DOESN'T HAVE CONTENT. Content (in this case) = exclusive level where you visit grave of dead waifu, exclusive storyline of the waifu's brother reaching out to PC after death of his sister, exclusive cutscenes where NPCs discuss dead waifu etc No cutscenes, no exclusive levels, no exclusive anything that carries the story of a dead waifu and is comparable in size to continued romance the other option has = no content. Personal headcanon is not content. Either both options have equally long storyline (even if it's different storyline) with equal amount of resources that went into producing diverging paths or not, simple. If there isn't, then it's just making up excuses about 'experience' that removes 1 romance while conitnuing content creation for another. Edited October 6, 2015 by Pietrastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) Are there any characters to which this thread applies, other than Lana and Theran, that one Czerka woman, and that one Sith lord whose name now escapes me? Hopefully ''yes'' to be honest...as in there will be. Because Kaliyo and some other already had to be on the list, but they weren't. And now with the new expansion I am sure all our dreams will come true! Edited October 6, 2015 by Saelinne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SelinaH Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Everyone does just fine with male Warriors, Smugglers and Agents having two choices of LIs. A few get one night stands others don't. You don't seem to remember any of the posts complaining about the gender disparities in romance options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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