Same gender romance discussion

[Tatile]

It's also heavily implied that Kaliyo seduced the rich girl who was one of her ex partners you meet in her companion quest.

 

Ooh yeah, how did I forget her? Kaliyo really screwed her.

 

Also, questing Taris? It's been ages, but there was the bonus series that helped and of course you can get exp boosts (unlike when I last played it Imp side, many moons ago), but yeah, Empire are *****. The thing that annoys me most about Taris is that it squanders Imperial resources for little more than a pissing contest.

 

But if you are finding it problematic, perhaps using a combination of boost, Space Combat and Flashpoints would help? (and the BBA quests)

[Xilizhra]

Ooh yeah, how did I forget her? Kaliyo really screwed her.

 

Also, questing Taris? It's been ages, but there was the bonus series that helped and of course you can get exp boosts (unlike when I last played it Imp side, many moons ago), but yeah, Empire are *****. The thing that annoys me most about Taris is that it squanders Imperial resources for little more than a pissing contest.

 

But if you are finding it problematic, perhaps using a combination of boost, Space Combat and Flashpoints would help? (and the BBA quests)

BBA quests?

 

I... I'm thinking of just no longer playing. I tried and it's just insufficiently fun. I would try previous KotOR games, but they strike me as being on the dated side.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

Hmmm...yeah. The should have introduced her character a bit earlier and tried to do too much on one planet really.

 

I do agree that she has one of the worst recruitment missions (if not the worst). It's probably something else I would headcanon fix in the Inquisitor storyline (along with, the entire third chapter).

 

.

 

I know it's very off-topic here so i'll put it in spoiler (and might actually be spoiler for some people) tags...

 

 

, but I have to comment on this whenever someone has the problem with the Sith Inquisitor storyline you seem to have. Back before this game was even a THOUGHT from Bioware, I used play a game called The Star Wars Roleplaying Game. I had a twi'lek force user who had a "feat" called Sith Sorcery. It let her do things. Powerful things. So, fast forward about 5-10 years to this game. We have the Sith Inquisitor. One of the Advanced Class options is the Sith Sorcerer. Meaning, I pretty much knew the entire plot of the Inquisitor without hearing about it from anyone else or playing the game. When I hear people say how much they hate the inquisitor story (and it's usually chapter 3), my only thought is "You really have no idea what Sith Sorcery entails, do you?" So, I'd say the Sith Inquisitor isn't for you... but to "headcanon fix" it (which you are free to do so, I just think it's a disservice to the entire lore established even before this game was even considered)... Well, then you aren't a Sith Inquisitor... you're a Sith Warrior that uses lightning or maybe a Sith Warrior who uses a double-bladed saber. Because really, Sith Sorcery has NOTHING to do with throwing lightning at your enemies. It's chapter 3 100%. The only reason the Warrior doesn't throw lightning and the Inquisitor doesn't force choke people is because they had to make the classes different for game balance... tank/dps vs. heal/dps. But there are NPCs that wear "heavy" armor but then use lightning and there are NPCs in robes who use force choke.

 

 

As for the overall topic about Ashara/romance/hate, my problem with Ashara (and I'm told this is explained in the story that apparently a woman kicked her puppy or something so she hates all women, I don't care) is from what I can tell a female inquisitor, light or dark, is pretty much going to have to spend millions of credits on gifts or I guess I was told you can farm approval with Belsavis dailies... but her approval ratings are very male skewed as in she's "low approval" for everything if you are female.

Edited September 16, 2013 by AbsolutGrndZero

[Palar]

... Is it weird I'm not surprised BW went with old 'pen and paper' mechanics, rather than how they described the class pre-launch?

 

Ah well, no good letting it make my orange blood boil.

[Xilizhra]

As for the overall topic about Ashara/romance/hate, my problem with Ashara (and I'm told this is explained in the story that apparently a woman kicked her puppy or something so she hates all women, I don't care) is from what I can tell a female inquisitor, light or dark, is pretty much going to have to spend millions of credits on gifts or I guess I was told you can farm approval with Belsavis dailies... but her approval ratings are very male skewed as in she's "low approval" for everything if you are female.

****. So the class I find the most interesting is actively opposed to my getting even headcanoned romantic enjoyment out of it?

[stuffystuffs]

 

, but I have to comment on this whenever someone has the problem with the Sith Inquisitor storyline you seem to have. Back before this game was even a THOUGHT from Bioware, I used play a game called The Star Wars Roleplaying Game. I had a twi'lek force user who had a "feat" called Sith Sorcery. It let her do things. Powerful things. So, fast forward about 5-10 years to this game. We have the Sith Inquisitor. One of the Advanced Class options is the Sith Sorcerer. Meaning, I pretty much knew the entire plot of the Inquisitor without hearing about it from anyone else or playing the game. When I hear people say how much they hate the inquisitor story (and it's usually chapter 3), my only thought is "You really have no idea what Sith Sorcery entails, do you?" So, I'd say the Sith Inquisitor isn't for you... but to "headcanon fix" it (which you are free to do so, I just think it's a disservice to the entire lore established even before this game was even considered)... Well, then you aren't a Sith Inquisitor... you're a Sith Warrior that uses lightning or maybe a Sith Warrior who uses a double-bladed saber. Because really, Sith Sorcery has NOTHING to do with throwing lightning at your enemies. It's chapter 3 100%. The only reason the Warrior doesn't throw lightning and the Inquisitor doesn't force choke people is because they had to make the classes different for game balance... tank/dps vs. heal/dps. But there are NPCs that wear "heavy" armor but then use lightning and there are NPCs in robes who use force choke.

 

 

 

My issues mainly lie with Thanaton being the worst antagonist in the game and the Inquisitor being incredibly passive (as in, Zash or your dead ancestor pretty much has to tell you to do everything or save you from doing dumb stuff the entire story). I don't really care if the Inquisitor's power comes from eating ghosts vs. shooting lightning.

 

[AshlaBoga]

Ooh yeah, how did I forget her? Kaliyo really screwed her.

 

Yes, Kaliyo screwed her in almost every way.

 

And since 2.0 I've had SGR with Lord Cytharat, Doctor Lemda Avesta, Eva Kaayz (she's bisexual but her flirt responses to my female IA were more passionate).

 

Ooh, and Kelsa Freen. Banged on all 12 of my toons. She strikes me as bad, but "only in a good way."

Edited September 16, 2013 by AshlaBoga

[Hudlar]

****. So the class I find the most interesting is actively opposed to my getting even headcanoned romantic enjoyment out of it?

 

There are a lot of problems with Ashara's story, but I don't think that's one of them. I played a female SI, and I didn't get any dialogue about her not liking women. I think people joke about her hating women because she doesn't have any gifts in the "favorite" or "love" category unless you're romancing her. Since she's unfortunately not a romance option for women, it's very expensive to raise her affection with gifts alone if you're playing a woman. However, I believe it would be just as expensive for a male character who didn't take the romance path. In any case, you don't need to worry about this as much if you actually take her along on missions and get affection that way. Since I pretty much always used either Talos or Khem, I had to go the gift-only route myself.

[Noodlegotagun]

My issues mainly lie with Thanaton being the worst antagonist in the game and the Inquisitor being incredibly passive (as in, Zash or your dead ancestor pretty much has to tell you to do everything or save you from doing dumb stuff the entire story). I don't really care if the Inquisitor's power comes from eating ghosts vs. shooting lightning.

 

That was my biggest problem with both of my inqusitor playthroughs too. 100% this.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

That was my biggest problem with both of my inqusitor playthroughs too. 100% this.

 

Ok, yes I will give you that. They could have done the whole "Sith Sorcery" angle a lot better and actually made your villain not even good enough to be a James Bond villain.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

There are a lot of problems with Ashara's story, but I don't think that's one of them. I played a female SI, and I didn't get any dialogue about her not liking women. I think people joke about her hating women because she doesn't have any gifts in the "favorite" or "love" category unless you're romancing her. Since she's unfortunately not a romance option for women, it's very expensive to raise her affection with gifts alone if you're playing a woman. However, I believe it would be just as expensive for a male character who didn't take the romance path. In any case, you don't need to worry about this as much if you actually take her along on missions and get affection that way. Since I pretty much always used either Talos or Khem, I had to go the gift-only route myself.

 

Ah... see I asked what the heck was up with the crazy gifting (If you romance her she actually likes stuff she doesn't otherwise beyond courting? Seriously she's the only companion that is like that), if it was a bug or what, and I had a couple people tell me that there is some dialogue somewhere in there (if you are actually rich enough to get her affection up without romancing her) where she talks about how she has some issues with other women. I didn't get details cause I don't like her... maybe if I ever make a 3rd inquisitor (Normally I make one male and one female of each class to try both romance/light/dark/AC combinations.... but I made two female inquisitors because I have no interest in Ashara as a romance (she's hot, especially the Collector's Edition Customization, but as a personality I don't like her) I'll bite the bullet and romance her and actually care. Or when I'm rich and decide to waste money on low affection gifts for her when I could be spending those credits on high level mods and such.

[Hudlar]

Ah... see I asked what the heck was up with the crazy gifting (If you romance her she actually likes stuff she doesn't otherwise beyond courting? Seriously she's the only companion that is like that), if it was a bug or what, and I had a couple people tell me that there is some dialogue somewhere in there (if you are actually rich enough to get her affection up without romancing her) where she talks about how she has some issues with other women.

 

I may be forgetting something (and if I am I hope someone will jump in with details), but I don't remember any conversations about not liking women or having trouble with women. According to Dulfy's site, there are quite a few companions who change gift preferences in weird ways when they're romanced (Andronikos suddenly likes luxury, military gear, and underworld goods better; Corso likes Republic memorabilia and trophies better, etc.) However, as far as I can tell, Ashara is the only companion who doesn't have even one favorite-level gift unless you're on the romance path. It's possible that this is supposed to mean something (maybe that she's hard to win over unless she's in love with you). However, I find the whole gift mechanic so silly that I treat it as a pure OOC game element that stands in for the time you're presumably spending with companions offscreen. Gifts made some sense in Dragon Age, where companions liked you better after you gave them one or two items with special meaning to them, but giving someone the same item over and over to gain affection just seems ridiculous to me.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Hudlar

[stuffystuffs]

Seriously she's the only companion that is like that), if it was a bug or what, and I had a couple people tell me that there is some dialogue somewhere in there (if you are actually rich enough to get her affection up without romancing her) where she talks about how she has some issues with other women.

 

I've done her whole dialog path with a female Inquisitor and never saw any hint of this.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

I've done her whole dialog path with a female Inquisitor and never saw any hint of this.

 

Ah cool then, guess the person that told me that was just reading too much into the gift thing and seeing things that aren't there in the dialogue. Thanks for letting me know, might actually go now to Belsavis and use a guide to "farm" affection on the dailies with her.

[MSpectre]

Not that you're reading this EA but if by some miracle in hell you are...

 

Make Jaesa bisexual and allow the conversation sequence to happen even after completing her dialogue arch and I'll throw a money at you. In all seriousness, throw money at you.

[Highborne]

Actually, the Inquisitor storyline thus far has been wonderful and I have no objections to it so far, apart from abominable presentation with Ashara that turned me off of it for an indefinite time period. There does tend to be a certain amount of personality inconsistency with light side, but it's not bad enough for it to make me leave in and of itself. No, what's depressing is the planetary storylines on the Imperial side. It started with slaughtering numerous revolting slaves on Dromund Kaas, then the entire plot of Balmorra was crushing native rebellions.

 

Well, to be fair, Balmorra *had* been assigned to the Empire by the Treaty of Coruscant. And as LS Empire player, you can sway the methods they use to not be so terrible as they would otherwise be and generally encourage leniency toward the noncombatant civilians.

 

Nar Shaddaa and Tatooine has your enemies be mostly as bad as you were, so that helped, but then Alderaan went into backing a clearly unpleasant noble house to power

 

What's so unpleasant about House Thul? Speaking as someone who's run through all Republic and Imperial storylines on Alderaan, there's not a whole lot of difference between them and Organa, not as people. Further, as a LS Empire character, you can have a huge influence on how Duke Thul treats his enemies and his people, and for the better too. I would say that Alderaan is a classic example of the dichotomy between Lightside Empire and Darkside Empire.

 

and then Taris put it up to eleven by deliberately attacking a civilian-colonized world for no reason other than to make the Republic look bad, by destroying hope, killing civilians and poisoning the planet more. It's... bleh.

 

And Gravus explains why it has to be done: Taris is positioned such that it's an ideal forward base for strikes against the Empire. In point of fact, the Taris bonus series involves you

putting an end to a warfleet the Republic's been secretly building there and diverting funds from the civilian reconstruction effort towards.

 

 

(Also, an LS Empire player can spare civilians, instead sending them running to the rest of the Republic.)

[Xilizhra]

Well, to be fair, Balmorra *had* been assigned to the Empire by the Treaty of Coruscant. And as LS Empire player, you can sway the methods they use to not be so terrible as they would otherwise be and generally encourage leniency toward the noncombatant civilians.

Assigned... because the Empire conquered it in its earlier unprovoked attack and the Republic was unable to retake it at the time. I'm reasonably sure the population is quite happy when the Republic liberates it later on.

 

What's so unpleasant about House Thul? Speaking as someone who's run through all Republic and Imperial storylines on Alderaan, there's not a whole lot of difference between them and Organa, not as people. Further, as a LS Empire character, you can have a huge influence on how Duke Thul treats his enemies and his people, and for the better too. I would say that Alderaan is a classic example of the dichotomy between Lightside Empire and Darkside Empire.

The duke isn't so bad, but there are no fewer than three missions I found to cover up Thul's apparently long list of atrocities. One involving stealing a holocron, a bonus mission inside Alte's library to delete files on Thul (Inquisitor-only), and one dealing with the rogue Rist assassins giving information to Ulgo.

 

And Gravus explains why it has to be done: Taris is positioned such that it's an ideal forward base for strikes against the Empire. In point of fact, the Taris bonus series involves you

But why not simply conquer Taris and build it up as an Imperial world? Why do you have to go out of your way to wreck the planet? I also admit I dislike Taris because it seems way too short for its level range and I'm still at level bloody 34...

[Euphrosyne]

But why not simply conquer Taris and build it up as an Imperial world? Why do you have to go out of your way to wreck the planet? I also admit I dislike Taris because it seems way too short for its level range and I'm still at level bloody 34...

Because it's ridiculously, prohibitively expensive. Taris reconstruction cost the Republic gobs and gobs of cash and meant an unlimited military commitment because of the nature of the, ah, local wildlife. The Empire is smaller and weaker and less cash-flush than the Republic, and therefore has a proportionately smaller ability or desire to colonize it. If the Empire were to drive the Republic off the planet, but leave the colony infrastructure and military facilities intact, anybody - Republic, pirates, rogue Imperial warlords - could just roll in there and take over once the Imps leave. And then the Imps would have the exact same security problem they had before. The solution is to not only eliminate the colony and the military base, but to destroy the infrastructure, so that the costs of a foreign power occupying Taris remain high.

 

That's the logical reason. (I expound on it at significant length in the fanfic that I swear I'm still writing. Hint. ) The illogical reason is the one brought up by a lot of Imps and Sith during the actual Taris quests themselves: a bizarre, obstinate "finish what we started" mentality that makes zero sense because Malak's Empire and Vitiate's Empire are two completely different things. Well, that combined with the usual Sith sadistic insistence on causing destruction purely for the evulz.

[Xilizhra]

Because it's ridiculously, prohibitively expensive. Taris reconstruction cost the Republic gobs and gobs of cash and meant an unlimited military commitment because of the nature of the, ah, local wildlife. The Empire is smaller and weaker and less cash-flush than the Republic, and therefore has a proportionately smaller ability or desire to colonize it. If the Empire were to drive the Republic off the planet, but leave the colony infrastructure and military facilities intact, anybody - Republic, pirates, rogue Imperial warlords - could just roll in there and take over once the Imps leave. And then the Imps would have the exact same security problem they had before. The solution is to not only eliminate the colony and the military base, but to destroy the infrastructure, so that the costs of a foreign power occupying Taris remain high.

 

That's the logical reason. (I expound on it at significant length in the fanfic that I swear I'm still writing. Hint. ) The illogical reason is the one brought up by a lot of Imps and Sith during the actual Taris quests themselves: a bizarre, obstinate "finish what we started" mentality that makes zero sense because Malak's Empire and Vitiate's Empire are two completely different things. Well, that combined with the usual Sith sadistic insistence on causing destruction purely for the evulz.

That probably would have helped my mentality during Taris a fair bit, had that been the stated reason...

[Euphrosyne]

Most of the things that NPCs and questgivers say about anything the Empire is doing in-game are idiotic and embarrassing. (And yet, the Empire has an absurd number of fanboys who eat it all up, believe it unconditionally, and were shocked and outraged at the beginning of Rise of the Hutt Cartel. But I digress.) Sometimes, you can come up with alternate explanations that work off of in-game knowledge; I personally think that a lot of this was sort of a 'read between the lines' kind of thing that the writers put there on purpose. Taris is an example of that.

 

But other times, it's impossible to explain them in any other way that makes sense. Like the Belsavis Bonus Series, which is largely about acquiring technical data so that the Imperial Guard can build an entire planet as a replica prison, only better. Bear in mind that this is happening:

 

a) during the middle of a war

b) during the middle of a war that the Empire is losing

c) during the middle of a war that the Empire is losing because it is outnumbered and being outproduced by Republic industry

d) during the middle of a war that the Empire is losing because in addition to all that, it's wasting its scarce resources on lunatic vanity projects, boondoggles, militarily absurd offensives, and civil wars

e) during the middle of a war in which the Empire's stated policy is apparently to take no prisoners in the first place, judging by the atrocities that its soldiers regularly commit.

 

All that ends up to a story that makes no sense at all. Now, this isn't all that big a deal, because the main thing about doing the Belsavis Bonus Series is the fact that it yields gobs and gobs of credits, and the missions in it are a fairly disparate bunch that mostly don't have anything to do with the framing quest. You're not smacked in the head with this two-by-four of Imperial stupidity every day you run the quests. (The Bonus Series quests are almost all endgame dailies, but the framing quest can only be done once.) But it does show how bizarre a lot of Imp stuff is, and how detached from the in-game reality a lot of them seem to be.

 

Now, that might just be good storytelling too: that the Imps really are that irrational and silly. The Sith Empire of the games is transparently an Expy of Nazi Germany, and these boondoggles would dovetail nicely with Hitlerite programs such as Speer's reconstruction of Berlin, the Maus superheavy tank, the Heinkel He 162 "Salamander" Volksjäger, Kraft durch Freude, and the entire Deutsche Arbeitsfront. If so, though, there's a subtlety of storytelling there that's lost on the majority of the playerbase. Combined with the fact that sometimes, these projects actually pay off (examples: Jedi Knight Chapter I, Sith Inquisitor Chapter III, possibly the entirety of Imperial Chapter IV), that ostensible subtlety might not be there at all.

 

But hey, I choose to believe it exists, which is why I also choose to believe that LS Jaesa's meant to be viewed as a lesbian who'd be totally into the Wrath if not for that Jedi chastity. (And that turning her to the dark side instead corrupts her into the weird, vaguely omnisexual animal we all know and love.) I also ship Korra and Asami, though, so I'm more than a little crazy.

[Xilizhra]

Would it be worth playing a Sith Warrior for that specific hope? Or not so, until it's canonized/some means of hacking the game to allow romance is achieved?

[Hudlar]

Because it's ridiculously, prohibitively expensive. Taris reconstruction cost the Republic gobs and gobs of cash and meant an unlimited military commitment because of the nature of the, ah, local wildlife. The Empire is smaller and weaker and less cash-flush than the Republic, and therefore has a proportionately smaller ability or desire to colonize it. If the Empire were to drive the Republic off the planet, but leave the colony infrastructure and military facilities intact, anybody - Republic, pirates, rogue Imperial warlords - could just roll in there and take over once the Imps leave. And then the Imps would have the exact same security problem they had before. The solution is to not only eliminate the colony and the military base, but to destroy the infrastructure, so that the costs of a foreign power occupying Taris remain high.

 

That's the logical reason. (I expound on it at significant length in the fanfic that I swear I'm still writing. Hint. ) The illogical reason is the one brought up by a lot of Imps and Sith during the actual Taris quests themselves: a bizarre, obstinate "finish what we started" mentality that makes zero sense because Malak's Empire and Vitiate's Empire are two completely different things. Well, that combined with the usual Sith sadistic insistence on causing destruction purely for the evulz.

 

I'm impressed that you were able to come up with a plausible explanation for the Empire's strategy on Taris. However, it seems to me that the Empire would actually want the Republic colony to stay on Taris as long as possible, throwing away lives and resources on a planet that isn't going to be more than a gaping wound for centuries, if ever. Sure, the Empire would want to make sure that the Republic couldn't use it as a forward base, as you and Highborne point out. However, the colonization efforts don't seem to be helping with that--quite the opposite, in fact.

[Euphrosyne]

I thought it was worth playing a Sith Warrior because it's fun to quest and level, because the voice acting is pretty decent, because the storyline is not bad at all and does a good job of accommodating LS and DS characters, and because it's an enjoyable class to play in terms of mechanics. (Vengeance Juggernauts ftw.) I also did my best to play at least one of each class for completionism's sake, and although I've only managed six of them so far, I found at least something enjoyable in all of them, whether it was the story, something about the companions, the mechanics, the voice acting, or even just a vague sense from the overall experience of playing a certain class.

 

For me, my little headcanoned Jaesa+Aly thing is just part of the way I think about the class and its story. It's not a reason to play, or a reason to not play. (Actually, when I was deepest into the whole headcanoned romance thing over the summer when I had lots of opportunity to write, I spent very little time actually playing as my Warrior. Now that I'm getting in bits and pieces of playing time again, my writing's fallen off - although part of that's due to university, too.) If you wouldn't otherwise play as a Warrior, the way I personally view the class story shouldn't be enough of a factor to motivate you.

[Xilizhra]

I thought it was worth playing a Sith Warrior because it's fun to quest and level, because the voice acting is pretty decent, because the storyline is not bad at all and does a good job of accommodating LS and DS characters, and because it's an enjoyable class to play in terms of mechanics. (Vengeance Juggernauts ftw.) I also did my best to play at least one of each class for completionism's sake, and although I've only managed six of them so far, I found at least something enjoyable in all of them, whether it was the story, something about the companions, the mechanics, the voice acting, or even just a vague sense from the overall experience of playing a certain class.

 

For me, my little headcanoned Jaesa+Aly thing is just part of the way I think about the class and its story. It's not a reason to play, or a reason to not play. (Actually, when I was deepest into the whole headcanoned romance thing over the summer when I had lots of opportunity to write, I spent very little time actually playing as my Warrior. Now that I'm getting in bits and pieces of playing time again, my writing's fallen off - although part of that's due to university, too.) If you wouldn't otherwise play as a Warrior, the way I personally view the class story shouldn't be enough of a factor to motivate you.

My affection has always been on more the mystical side than the physical, hence my Inquisitor playthrough... and I get more of the feeling of exploring, well, magic from the Inquisitor than I do the Consular, somehow.

[Palar]

My affection has always been on more the mystical side than the physical, hence my Inquisitor playthrough... and I get more of the feeling of exploring, well, magic from the Inquisitor than I do the Consular, somehow.

 

Agreed - my Sage was my first toon, and I love him, but after the first Act the whole Force scholar-routine vanishes (along with Youn, because game mechanics) in favour of building up a power-base. While the Inquistor swaps the touted 'build a power-base by guile and deception' approach... for being a Force scholar. Or Pac-Man, depending on how you describe Spirit-Binding.

 

Which is why I started playing my Assassin more - and finally noticed Talos has a thing for courting gifts from male characters.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Palar