Kaggath Tournament - Grievous vs Revan vs G0-T0

[MasterMe]

Powerbases aren't important if Revan can beat Greivous one-on-one. Let's face it; with all the assassins and what-not that Revan has at his disposal, Revan could surely defeat Greivous. There are numerous ways this could be accomplished in many ways. Here's one:

 

Remember how Kit Fisto nearly beat Grievous? Greivous cornered him and came after him. I'm sure some of you would claim that Kit Fisto is stronger then Revan. If that is so, Greivous would feel pretty confident that he could beat Revan. He would try. He would fail.

 

Revan could set a trap. Make himself seemingly isolated. Greivous would come after him and then Revan's stealthed assassins would leap out and BAM... you've got Revan vs Greivous, surrounded by Revan's assassins. This is not a situation that Greivous would survive.

 

That OR many other traps and assassination techniques could work on the general. Greivous may have the better powerbase, but Revan can kill Greivous and that's all that matters.

 

Also: could someone tell me how Greivous is gonna kill Revan in the supposed scenario where he defeats Revan's empire? Can Revan not flee as well? I disagree that the war would ever get to this point, but even if it did Revan could still assassinate Greivous.

 

I confess, I'm not entirely sure what G0-T0 is gonna do during all this. I will say this: I don't think G0-T0 can muster/create an army to match that of Greivous or Revan.

 

So.... regardless of who win with the Revan vs Greivous sub-Kaggath, we need to ask ourselves this:

How easily can Revan assassinate G0-T0? How easily can G0-T0 assassinate Revan?

How easily can Greivous assassinate G0-T0? How easily can G0-T0 assassinate Greivous?

 

In my opinion, the above questions are what matter the most once G0-T0 is in the fight.

[MasterMe]

Ah, ok, I see now why the explosives wouldn't work. I did not know about the Duranium (my quick skim through his Wookiee page must have missed it! ). I still think Revan would be able to crush Grievous' organs, unless he somehow needed to expose them before he could affect them. I suppose the Duranium would likely be pretty good at negating any damage that might be caused by lightning.

 

I agree that in a straight-up lightsaber duel between the two, Revan is unlikely to win. Even with Malak at his side, they probably couldn't beat GG. With a dozen agile, stealthy assassins, they might have a 50-50 shot, though, but that's assuming GG has no reinforcements of his own on hand. Given what we know of the General, it is unlikely that he could be completely separated from his Separatist forces.

 

 

 

EDIT:

On the topic of G0-T0 hacking Grievous' droid forces, I doubt he would be able to assume control of deployed forces. However, his agents could upload a virus to the droids still under production, or possibly even the ones simply powered down and in storage.

 

Seriously? You don't think that Revan + Malak + several dozens of Sith Assassins could beat Greivous??

[Mr_Bane]

I'm not sure this would work out so well. First, Grievous has many many factories and shipyards -- to hit them all, or even just a few critical ones, would likely overextend Revan's much smaller military. Grievous would simply take Revan's forces apart piecemeal. I suppose Revan could focus on a single factory world at a time, but it would take too long to reach the point where Grievous was unable to replenish his forces, even if Revan won every battle (which, admittedly, is shaky).

 

 

Grievous himself often went after civillian centers, and would likely recognize what Revan was attempting to do. It's unlikely that any emotion Grievous might feel upon seeing his homeworld threatened would throw him off his game -- he was pretty ruthless.

GG during the Huk conflict Many times attacked out of vengeance as in this paragraph from wookiepedia

"Desperate to help his people, Grievous took a job as an enforcer with the InterGalactic Banking Clan. However, after learning that the Huk had attacked Kalee, he headed home to gain vengeance"

also when they Rebuilt GG they enhanced his rage center so The bombardment . So i assume that the destruction of his home world would effect GG deeply . and when your in a rage you tend not to think well. which could leave GG to make alot of key mistakes.

[Darth_Scelestus]

Seriously? You don't think that Revan + Malak + several dozens of Sith Assassins could beat Greivous??

 

I bet they could, but for the purpose of this debate, all Grievous has to do is kill Revan, right? Then Revan's powerbase is out of the game.

 

I'm honestly wavering on whether Revan could beat Grievous. Lightsaber-wise, probably not. It depends how effective Revan's Force abilities are. Can he telekinetically crush Grievous' brain? I don't know. Has anyone in Star Wars done something like that, or do they all just crush the skull? Obviosly, the Jedi that fought against Grievous in the Clone Wars would be reluctant to try this, as it would be a pretty Dark application of the Force, so it's hard to say whether or not it's possible.

 

 

EDIT:

GG during the Huk conflict Many times attacked out of vengeance as in this paragraph from wookiepedia

"Desperate to help his people, Grievous took a job as an enforcer with the InterGalactic Banking Clan. However, after learning that the Huk had attacked Kalee, he headed home to gain vengeance"

also when they Rebuilt GG they enhanced his rage center so The bombardment . So i assume that the destruction of his home world would effect GG deeply . and when your in a rage you tend not to think well. which could leave GG to make alot of key mistakes.

 

Hmmm, good point. I didn't know about that; guess I should stop posting until I actually read through Grievous' Wookiee page.... ooops!

Edited January 19, 2013 by Darth_Scelestus
arguement

[Aurbere]

Powerbases aren't important if Revan can beat Greivous one-on-one. Let's face it; with all the assassins and what-not that Revan has at his disposal, Revan could surely defeat Greivous. There are numerous ways this could be accomplished in many ways. Here's one:

 

Remember how Kit Fisto nearly beat Grievous? Greivous cornered him and came after him. I'm sure some of you would claim that Kit Fisto is stronger then Revan. If that is so, Greivous would feel pretty confident that he could beat Revan. He would try. He would fail.

 

Revan could set a trap. Make himself seemingly isolated. Greivous would come after him and then Revan's stealthed assassins would leap out and BAM... you've got Revan vs Greivous, surrounded by Revan's assassins. This is not a situation that Greivous would survive.

 

You think Grievous is that stupid? Grievous would bring his Elite Guard with him. You know what? Bring a couple thousand battle droids too. Grievous will do anything to secure his victory.

 

That OR many other traps and assassination techniques could work on the general. Greivous may have the better powerbase, but Revan can kill Greivous and that's all that matters.

 

Indeed? How many of Revan's assassins are as skilled as Count Dooku and Kit Fisto? What type of weaponry does Revan's forces have to penetrate Grievous' Duranium armor? Grievous has lived through a lot of stuff.

 

Also: could someone tell me how Greivous is gonna kill Revan in the supposed scenario where he defeats Revan's empire? Can Revan not flee as well? I disagree that the war would ever get to this point, but even if it did Revan could still assassinate Greivous.

 

I don't know. Bring a couple million battle droids, destroyer droids, Magnaguards and heavy tanks? Don't even tell me Revan and his "assassins" can beat millions of battle droids.

 

I confess, I'm not entirely sure what G0-T0 is gonna do during all this. I will say this: I don't think G0-T0 can muster/create an army to match that of Greivous or Revan.

 

So.... regardless of who win with the Revan vs Greivous sub-Kaggath, we need to ask ourselves this:

How easily can Revan assassinate G0-T0? How easily can G0-T0 assassinate Revan?

How easily can Greivous assassinate G0-T0? How easily can G0-T0 assassinate Greivous?

 

In my opinion, the above questions are what matter the most once G0-T0 is in the fight.

 

G0-T0 doesn't need an army, though he has an HK army. G0-T0 will have an easier time killing Grievous than Revan will. G0-T0's wait and see tactic will take advantage of the weakened state of the victor (obviously Grievous) to get him a victory. Whether or not this tactic works remains to be seen.

[Aurbere]

Seriously? You don't think that Revan + Malak + several dozens of Sith Assassins could beat Greivous??

 

You think it's going to come down to that? Only a fool would make such a mistake, and Grievous is no fool.

[Aurbere]

I bet they could, but for the purpose of this debate, all Grievous has to do is kill Revan, right? Then Revan's powerbase is out of the game.

 

I'm honestly wavering on whether Revan could beat Grievous. Lightsaber-wise, probably not. It depends how effective Revan's Force abilities are. Can he telekinetically crush Grievous' brain? I don't know. Has anyone in Star Wars done something like that, or do they all just crush the skull? Obviosly, the Jedi that fought against Grievous in the Clone Wars would be reluctant to try this, as it would be a pretty Dark application of the Force, so it's hard to say whether or not it's possible.

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

Hmmm, good point. I didn't know about that; guess I should stop posting until I actually read through Grievous' Wookiee page.... ooops!

 

Grievous dueled Ventress multiple times and she didn't do such a thing. Dueling-wise, Grievous would beat Revan no contest.

 

Bombarding the Kaleesh homeworld would only make Grievous' ire more potent. He may make a few mistakes, but nothing that will get him killed. Such a thing won't make him a tactical dunce. He has the numbers to make up for any 'mistake' that he may make.

[StarSquirrel]

Well, as for the first question, yeah I think that's how G0-T0 would do it.

 

As for the second, no I covered that. G0-T0 would know all Grievous's planned escape routes and the abilities of his body so he'll plan accordingly. (such as pre-launching all the escape pods and setting up HK's on the outer hull.)

 

And as for how he'd control the ships? Computer Cores... he'd find the manufacturing plant and insert a virus or program and gain access to key (yet taken for granted) systems with less security at the minimum. He wouldn't need ALL the ships, just Grievous's capital ship and a few others to finish Revan off if need be. He's a computer with a massive intel network and stealth capabilities, finding the proper plants and ensuring their cargoes are destined for Grievous's ship isn't that hard imo.

 

Shameless repost. This is in regards to Aurbere's questions about my G0-T0 'wait and see' scenario.

Edited January 19, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[Darkondo]

Seriously? You don't think that Revan + Malak + several dozens of Sith Assassins could beat Greivous??

 

Theres no way it would come down to that im afraid, Grievous wouldnt even gamble with that, did he let it come down to that during his duel with Ventress? No. Did he let it come down to that with Obi-Wan? No. He either ran or called his droid army to help him, all out of amusement.

 

Personally i think Darth Revan could beat Grievous 1v1 (itd be the fight of his life at this point of his power but he could pull it off) but Grievous would only entertain that fight til he'd either get bored (like he did with Ventress), or he started losing. After that he'd call for backup and then would either run for an escape or stand back and let his army do the fighting.

[Darkondo]

Grievous dueled Ventress multiple times and she didn't do such a thing. Dueling-wise, Grievous would beat Revan no contest.

 

Bombarding the Kaleesh homeworld would only make Grievous' ire more potent. He may make a few mistakes, but nothing that will get him killed. Such a thing won't make him a tactical dunce. He has the numbers to make up for any 'mistake' that he may make.

 

Wait, how did it turn from Darth Revan would win barely in the 1st part of th thread to Grievous would beat Revan no contest now?

[Mr_Bane]

I bet they could, but for the purpose of this debate, all Grievous has to do is kill Revan, right? Then Revan's powerbase is out of the game.

 

I'm honestly wavering on whether Revan could beat Grievous. Lightsaber-wise, probably not. It depends how effective Revan's Force abilities are. Can he telekinetically crush Grievous' brain? I don't know. Has anyone in Star Wars done something like that, or do they all just crush the skull? Obviosly, the Jedi that fought against Grievous in the Clone Wars would be reluctant to try this, as it would be a pretty Dark application of the Force, so it's hard to say whether or not it's possible.

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

Hmmm, good point. I didn't know about that; guess I should stop posting until I actually read through Grievous' Wookiee page.... ooops!

 

lol i had to look up info on him too.

 

If revan was to successfully destroy GG Home world , I think GG would seek a one on one duel with Revan ,Because anyone who Home was destroy they would personal wanna be the one to kill the man that did it.

 

How i would see the Duel would be In Space with With GG and select few Of his elites and Ventress would board revan's flag ship. GG would tell Ventress that revan is his but she wouldn't listen because she doesn't respect GG. she would run into revan first on The bridge a Duel between them would take place , Ventress would get wound bad and flee. eventually GG would meet revan On the bridge for the battle . Revan would win the out come off the battle . but i see malak pulling the same move he did the first time and betray his master and fire on his ship. Because it would be the prefect opportunity to take the mantle from your master

[Aurbere]

Well, as for the first question, yeah I think that's how G0-T0 would do it.

 

As for the second, no I covered that. G0-T0 would know all Grievous's planned escape routes and the abilities of his body so he'll plan accordingly. (such as pre-launching all the escape pods and setting up HK's on the outer hull.)

 

And as for how he'd control the ships? Computer Cores... he'd find the manufacturing plant and insert a virus or program and gain access to key (yet taken for granted) systems with less security at the minimum. He wouldn't need ALL the ships, just Grievous's capital ship and a few others to finish Revan off if need be. He's a computer with a massive intel network and stealth capabilities, finding the proper plants and ensuring their cargoes are destined for Grievous's ship isn't that hard imo.

 

Shameless repost. This is in regards to Aurbere's questions about my G0-T0 'wait and see' scenario.

 

Shameless! No just kidding!

 

I think G0-T0 would let the ships go about there business (maybe put a sleeper virus in) and just take over when he is ready to move.

 

This is how I see it ending:

 

Grievous' overwhelming numbers (seriously trillions and more) defeat Revan and G0-T0 picks up the pieces. But would G0-T0 be able to kill Grievous? Depends on how much G0-T0 takes from Grievous. The issue with the droid armies is that G0-T0 can simply sweep that powerbase out from under Grievous and destroy him with it.

 

I think G0-T0 could (stress that) win it, but Grievous will obviously win the main Kaggath (which is the RvG battle).

[Darkondo]

lol i had to look up info on him too.

 

If revan was to successfully destroy GG Home world , I think GG would seek a one on one duel with Revan ,Because anyone who Home was destroy they would personal wanna be the one to kill the man that did it.

 

How i would see the Duel would be In Space with With GG and select few Of his elites and Ventress would board revan's flag ship. GG would tell Ventress that revan is his but she wouldn't listen because she doesn't respect GG. she would run into revan first on The bridge a Duel between them would take place , Ventress would get wound bad and flee. eventually GG would meet revan On the bridge for the battle . Revan would win the out come off the battle . but i see malak pulling the same move he did the first time and betray his master and fire on his ship. Because it would be the prefect opportunity to take the mantle from your master

 

Il be honest I kinda saw this coming in at least one of the Kaggath's involving Darth Revan. Lol betrayed by your best friend.

[Darkondo]

Shameless! No just kidding!

 

I think G0-T0 would let the ships go about there business (maybe put a sleeper virus in) and just take over when he is ready to move.

 

This is how I see it ending:

 

Grievous' overwhelming numbers (seriously trillions and more) defeat Revan and G0-T0 picks up the pieces. But would G0-T0 be able to kill Grievous? Depends on how much G0-T0 takes from Grievous. The issue with the droid armies is that G0-T0 can simply sweep that powerbase out from under Grievous and destroy him with it.

 

I think G0-T0 could (stress that) win it, but Grievous will obviously win the main Kaggath (which is the RvG battle).

 

G0-T0's smarter than that he'd have a hand from the shadows assisting whoever's losing (probably Revan due to being outnumbered and outgunned) so that there on a crash course to destroy each other. An example of this is the

Star Cabal which was operating from the shadows to wipe out the sith and jedi on corellia by having them destroy each other and would've succeeded had it not been th IA discovering their plot

 

[Aurbere]

Wait, how did it turn from Darth Revan would win barely in the 1st part of th thread to Grievous would beat Revan no contest now?

 

Dueling-wise, Grievous is above and beyond Revan. He was a proficient user in the seven lightsaber forms and could use them with the speed and precision of a machine. He has dueled some of the best and survived (either through fleeing or by actually defeating them). Dooku considered him the best student he ever trained.

 

Obviously Revan has the advantage of The Force, but that hasn't stopped Grievous from beating some pretty powerful Jedi.

[Aurbere]

G0-T0's smarter than that he'd have a hand from the shadows assisting whoever's losing (probably Revan due to being outnumbered and outgunned) so that there on a crash course to destroy each other. An example of this is the

Star Cabal which was operating from the shadows to wipe out the sith and jedi on corellia by having them destroy each other and would've succeeded had it not been th IA discovering their plot

 

There is only so much he can do. Revan is so completely outnumbered that G0-T0 would have to actually deploy HK-50's and mercenaries in force to actually be of any help. Sure he could take control of some of Grievous' ships, but that would make both Revan and Grievous aware of G0-T0's involvement. Meaning that they would see what G0-T0 can do and move against him.

 

And don't the rules say no alliances? Doesn't that mean G0-T0 can't help one or the other?

[Aurbere]

This thread isn't even a day old and it's almost to 70 posts!

 

Gotta love what even the mention of Revan does.

[Darkondo]

Dueling-wise, Grievous is above and beyond Revan. He was a proficient user in the seven lightsaber forms and could use them with the speed and precision of a machine. He has dueled some of the best and survived (either through fleeing or by actually defeating them). Dooku considered him the best student he ever trained.

 

Obviously Revan has the advantage of The Force, but that hasn't stopped Grievous from beating some pretty powerful Jedi.

 

I see your point, i still think Darth Revan (i say darth since theres a distinction in power b/t sith, jedi, and reborn) wouldnt be steamrolled by Grievous since you have to take into account his force abilities are greater then Ventress' abilities (the only sith Grievous has fought, not practiced against to my knowledge) and he's never had experience in facing these abilities (lightning, etc) he'd at the very least be caught off guard and call for backup since thats how he is.

[Darkondo]

There is only so much he can do. Revan is so completely outnumbered that G0-T0 would have to actually deploy HK-50's and mercenaries in force to actually be of any help. Sure he could take control of some of Grievous' ships, but that would make both Revan and Grievous aware of G0-T0's involvement. Meaning that they would see what G0-T0 can do and move against him.

 

And don't the rules say no alliances? Doesn't that mean G0-T0 can't help one or the other?

 

True he cant help Revan, but he can still hack Grievous' droids and keep in mind even if they were aware of G0-T0's involvement they cant find him. (according to them hes Goto the crime lord if they are even aware that its him pulling the strings so they may never find him)

 

Given that they may never find him he has alot of time to come up with multiple strands of a virus and multiple ways of distributing the virus in case they find out what hes doing and try to stop it.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Darkondo

[Aurbere]

I see your point, i still think Darth Revan (i say darth since theres a distinction in power b/t sith, jedi, and reborn) wouldnt be steamrolled by Grievous since you have to take into account his force abilities are greater then Ventress' abilities (the only sith Grievous has fought, not practiced against to my knowledge) and he's never had experience in facing these abilities (lightning, etc) he'd at the very least be caught off guard and call for backup since thats how he is.

 

If a duel is to occur between the two, Grievous will have the Magnaguards lying in wait just in case. Look at his duel with Eeth Koth. Grievous had the advantage and still kept his guards on call. It's actually quite smart. Even if he knows he can win, he will have the guards at the ready.

[Aurbere]

True he cant help Revan, but he can still hack Grievous' droids and keep in mind even if they were aware of G0-T0's involvement they cant find him. (according to them hes Goto the crime lord if they are even aware that its him pulling the strings so they may never find him)

 

Again, though. G0-T0 can set up a trap, but he won't use them to destroy Grievous (as that would be against the rules until Revan is dead).

 

Now I remember in the G0-T0 vs. Plagueis thread that Plagueis knew G0-T0 was a droid. Wouldn't that apply here as well?

[Darkondo]

If a duel is to occur between the two, Grievous will have the Magnaguards lying in wait just in case. Look at his duel with Eeth Koth. Grievous had the advantage and still kept his guards on call. It's actually quite smart. Even if he knows he can win, he will have the guards at the ready.

 

True, although i stated above that he would never let a 1v1 fight happen, Grievous is no fool!

[Wolfninjajedi]

True he cant help Revan, but he can still hack Grievous' droids and keep in mind even if they were aware of G0-T0's involvement they cant find him. (according to them hes Goto the crime lord if they are even aware that its him pulling the strings so they may never find him)

 

Given that they may never find him he has alot of time to come up with multiple strands of a virus and multiple ways of distributing the virus in case they find out what hes doing and try to stop it.

 

I feel as if this whole "G0-T0 can't be found" bit is getting extremely old. The combatants aren't morons, its not like they wouldn't be able to use a destroyed HK's memory core(or whatever droid G0-T0 employs) or capture one of his mercenaries and bribe him to tell where G0-T0 is operating. Even if they can't, whats to stop them from figuring out...

 

"Well gee...some guy is hiring mercenaries to come and destroy us, now what possible locations might be where you can find shady people at who can be hired for credits?"

Edited January 19, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

I feel as if this whole "G0-T0 can't be found" bit is getting extremely old. The combatants aren't morons, its not like they wouldn't be able to use a destroyed HK's memory core or capture a mercenary and bribe him to tell where G0-T0 is operating.

 

That's another thing. If an HK assassination fails on either side, they can rip apart his memory core and find the HK factory or even the Yacht. If G0-T0 sends an organic assassin to kill Revan, he will just use the Dark Side to rip any information from him. This would be especially effective on those that have been on G0-T0's Yacht.

[Darkondo]

Again, though. G0-T0 can set up a trap, but he won't use them to destroy Grievous (as that would be against the rules until Revan is dead).

 

Now I remember in the G0-T0 vs. Plagueis thread that Plagueis knew G0-T0 was a droid. Wouldn't that apply here as well?

 

This i dont know as i never participated in that particular thread, im just going with what i know about G0-T0 and what he is capable of. We may need Beniboybling to clear this up. Keep in mind that even if the knowledge that he's a droid is known he still cant be found and youd never be able to tell which G0-T0 droid is the real G0-T0 droid either.