PVP consensus Balance Thread

[Invictusthetaru]

Hey guys, I'm gonna name specs for classes and I want your opinions on them, whether you agree or disagree, and what you would do to change them.

 

Not going to talk about nerfs in this thread as I hate the negativity on the forums.

 

Small buffs- quality of life changes, small DPS upgrade, 2 new talents / shifted talents, etc.

 

Big buffs- slight overhaul of the class.

 

Small buff pvp specs-

Lightning/telekenitics - sorc/sage

 

madness / balance- sorc/sage

 

Madness / balance- sin-shadow

 

Vengeance / Vigilance - jugg/guardian

 

Immortal / defense - jugg / guardian (just a small DPS increase? relevant 31 point talent?)

 

Advanced prototype/ Tactics- Powertech/ vanguard

 

Pyrotech / assault specialist- Mercenary/commando

 

Big Buffs

 

Arsenal / Gunnery- Mercenary / commando

 

Lethality/ Dirty Fighting- Operative / Scoundrel

 

 

So as you can see the most balanced classes right now are probably marauder, sniper, assassin and pyro PT.

 

Is it even worth it to change these specs? Should they have a place in PVE but none in PVP? I'm curious to know the thoughts of the community when it comes to balance but in a positive light.

 

Feel free to discuss ranked relevance.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Invictusthetaru

[Washingtoon]

No, TTK'es are insane right now and needs to be toned down. The only way of doing that is to nerf. By buffing new AC'es, to keep them on par with the power houses, we'd only make things worse. Longer TTK'es would be an indirect buff to certain AC'es since it would give them time to use their entire arsenal. One problem atm is just that, that abilties are useless in battles that only take 5 seconds. Just look at some of the dots in the game, far longer durations than the average fight.

[Invictusthetaru]

No, TTK'es are insane right now and needs to be toned down. The only way of doing that is to nerf. By buffing new AC'es, to keep them on par with the power houses, we'd only make things worse. Longer TTK'es would be an indirect buff to certain AC'es since it would give them time to use their entire arsenal. One problem atm is just that, that abilties are useless in battles that only take 5 seconds. Just look at some of the dots in the game, far longer durations than the average fight.

 

A good point, but nerfing a certain AC is not necessarily a good way to make another AC viable. For example, some classes have issues that go beyond the ability to use all they have, such as advanced protoype / tactics, arsenal/gunnary, etc.

[Savej]

TTK is more than fine if you are in a group with a good tank or two and a couple good healers (or lots of cc) - in such situations some classes can be nearly unkillable without 4+ people hitting them with heavy instants (4x smash vs guarded healer with bubbles and taunts = healer has more than half health left).

 

TTK from a well-geared, coordinated, focus-fire team vs an ungeared mishmash of barely atks is not so good but I don't see the problem with that.

[Washingtoon]

TTK is more than fine if you are in a group with a good tank or two and a couple good healers (or lots of cc) - in such situations some classes can be nearly unkillable without 4+ people hitting them with heavy instants (4x smash vs guarded healer with bubbles and taunts = healer has more than half health left).

 

TTK from a well-geared, coordinated, focus-fire team vs an ungeared mishmash of barely atks is not so good but I don't see the problem with that.

That is a minority scenario. How many are playing rateds? Like 1 % of the population? It doesnt even apply to the majority of premades I come across in normal warzones. I see premades roll in with a healer, that's pretty much a given, but tanks arent as common. Or make that, AC with the potential of being tank actually putting up protection. As a pug healer I can only remember one game in which I had a guard glued to me. It was awesome to have him around but statistically I wouldnt base TTK'es on it.

[JackNader]

Mercs / Arsenal -> need mobility, escape mechanisms, and above all they need to be able to gun and run. Everything they have requires them to stand still and cast which in PVP is death. I would love to see death from above improved and missile blast to have its heat cost lowered to 16 so it can actually be used.

 

Merc / Pyrotech -> Needs a mobile spammable talent similar to flameburst to proc railshots instead of turretmode powershot and unload.

 

Lightning Sorc - Lightning strike should be instant cast with no activation time. Extra movement speed instead of lame stuns and controlling effects would be more appreciated.

 

Madness sorc - Crushing darkness should be instant cast without the need for wrath or affliction should proc wrath instead of force lightning. In which case make it so affliction is not cleansible. Lightning barrage should be in the madness tree.

 

 

Marauders - nerf to survivability

 

Jug Immortal tree - A reason to spec into full immortal.. right now the only viable tank spec is immortal / vengeance hybrid.

 

Jug vengeance - Boost to bleed damage, No sunder requirement on shatter.

 

Smash - Big nerf to smash. Big bolster to their other single target abilities.

 

AP Powertech - A more reliable means of slowing the target when flamethrower is applied. Right now it's buggy as hell and often does not even slow the target.

 

operative - concealment. A means of getting out of combat after achieving a kill.

 

Annihilation marauder - Make deadly saber not cleansable.

 

Shield tech powertech - Reason to actually spec into shield tech tree for PVP. Worst of the PVP tanks.

Edited January 16, 2013 by JackNader

[cycao]

That is a minority scenario. How many are playing rateds? Like 1 % of the population? It doesnt even apply to the majority of premades I come across in normal warzones. I see premades roll in with a healer, that's pretty much a given, but tanks arent as common. Or make that, AC with the potential of being tank actually putting up protection. As a pug healer I can only remember one game in which I had a guard glued to me. It was awesome to have him around but statistically I wouldnt base TTK'es on it.

 

I feel like ranked is a decent place to look at class balance. I mean you have some of the best players/teams using the strengths and excluding the weaknesses of AC's in the game. Random reg's are just that random, with random numbers. You can be rolling for a min and everything is all good and the next you cant seem to get anything going.

 

I just don't want TTK to be adjusted to the point where there is no burst and it takes forever and a min to kill someone. There will be a lot of factors to make when adjusting anything at this point, the next 5 levels, healing, expertise will become generalized for all gear.

[cashogy]

you balance the game around the greatest potential of each class.

 

making balancing decisions based on the performance of the lowest common denominator leads to changes like the most recent one to resolve. which was terrible

[HeIIbat]

Why everyone suggest boost to immortal/vengeance Juggernaut ? WE'RE PERFECTLY FINE. Only thing bother me is PT/VG flameburst and railshot. Its not really fun when all ur defensive stats totally useless vs flameburst and railshot

[Invictusthetaru]

I feel like ranked is a decent place to look at class balance. I mean you have some of the best players/teams using the strengths and excluding the weaknesses of AC's in the game. Random reg's are just that random, with random numbers. You can be rolling for a min and everything is all good and the next you cant seem to get anything going.

 

I just don't want TTK to be adjusted to the point where there is no burst and it takes forever and a min to kill someone. There will be a lot of factors to make when adjusting anything at this point, the next 5 levels, healing, expertise will become generalized for all gear.

 

I agree that balance needs to occur at the highest end of play, which is why I mentioned the above specs / ACs as they are rarely taken into rateds.

 

That was kind of my thought process.

[DarthBloodloss]

Merc Pyro needs more than a little buff Edited January 16, 2013 by DarthBloodloss

[Invictusthetaru]

It seemed like a suggestion to buff almost every spec in the game. I'm not sure if I can agree with that. Its going to be hard convincing Merc players that PT, Maras, and Juggs need a slight buff.

 

I never said marauder in the OP.

 

I named the rarely played specs of both jugg and PT. I see more mercs overall than I see of either of those specs at 50 by a large margin.

[Invictusthetaru]

Merc Pyro needs more than a little buff

 

What if the use of thermal detonator AND sticky grenade had a 100 percent chance to make the next power shot instant cast OR unload at full damage but half cast time?

 

So you could thermal det > DOT > RS > instant PS > (if proc) RS ?

[JackNader]

The issue with combust spec for merc is that its not the PT spec. Using Flameburst to proc railshot is infinitely superior to using unload or powershot.

[Smashbrother]

What if the use of thermal detonator AND sticky grenade had a 100 percent chance to make the next power shot instant cast OR unload at full damage but half cast time?

 

So you could thermal det > DOT > RS > instant PS > (if proc) RS ?

 

I'd rather they buff explosive round for assault spec.

 

I'd also put sage telekinetics under big buff. It's worse than gunnery. And when bubble stun gets nerfed, it will be even more worthless.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Smashbrother

[Totaltrash]

FIRST, the Resolve system and TTK need a complete overhaul.

 

We want fluid, fast game play - not stunlocks and instakills!

 

ONLY THEN should they look at the classes.

 

(ofc, knowing Bioware, they will muck up the classes and never look at the fundamentals)

[Invictusthetaru]

I'd rather they buff explosive round for assault spec.

 

I'd also put sage telekinetics under big buff. It's worse than gunnery. And when bubble stun gets nerfed, it will be even more worthless.

 

Good point, but I didn't want to piss sages / sorcs off by saying I hate bubble stun as is. Agreed.

[JackNader]

Bubblestun is an overpowered and unnecessary mechanic put in place to bandaid obvious flaws in class design. Edited January 16, 2013 by JackNader

[LastWizard]

Making a marauders bleeds immune to cleansing? You kidding me? Than what would be the point of cleanse for healers? How about boosting the self heals back up to what they were?

 

This is going to sound crazy coming from an assassin main, but bubble spec doesn't need a nerf. I just think the lockout should be fixed.

[SpaniardInfinity]

This is going to sound crazy coming from an assassin main, but bubble spec doesn't need a nerf. I just think the lockout should be fixed.

 

I agree bubble was fine prior to the changing of its resolve value. If it broke on damage taken (with its current value; this was how it was before the latest update) or retained its current effect but with a hard stun's resolve, it would be fair. What makes it overpowered presently is it doesn't break on damage and generates practically no resolve. Also, clicking off the bubble should not apply the CC -- there's nothing more idiotic than being attacked by a Marauder that bubble stuns me mid-Ravage or being able to CC while you are incapacitated.

Edited January 16, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[Danapa]

1)-Remove mezzs from the game or make them single target only short stuns should remain as they are and dont come with the team strategy thing if they are single target more cordination should be needed

 

2)Cut the damage so no class can hit someone for 5,6,7 or even 8k a 4.5k hit should be the biggest hit ever only performed by those very good geared players etc etc

 

3)Knockbacks SINGLE TARGET it cannot be tolerated that one sorc or commando can throw away 5 ppl from a bridge instakilling them or to fire pits in huttball etc etc

 

4)For the love of god remove crap stats from pvp gear or atleast make them usefull in pvp so ppl wouldnt have to remodd for power surge

 

5)Make defenses for tanks work against tech/force damage PERIOD

 

6)Fire the people who design the pvp/pve endgame gear and sign someone who has actually seem the movies and know what star wars its all about the current armor sets are uggly not iconic and no starwarsy the low lvl ones for troopers for example are ubbercool

 

7)Make pvpers make money from pvp i pay to just pvp i dont care about daylies kthx

 

8)Stop wasting resources inventing crap items for the cartel market and make something usefull and fun like for example adding pvp zones outdoor so many planets and yet a pvper can stay in the fleet forever because there is no content for us elsewhere i cant remember the last time i went to tattooine aderaan etc....

Edited January 16, 2013 by Danapa

[Larry_Dallas]

Small buff pvp specs-

Lightning/telekenitics - sorc/sage

 

madness / balance- sorc/sage

 

Madness / balance- sin-shadow

 

Vengeance / Vigilance - jugg/guardian

 

Immortal / defense - jugg / guardian (just a small DPS increase? relevant 31 point talent?)

 

Advanced prototype/ Tactics- Powertech/ vanguard

 

Pyrotech / assault specialist- Mercenary/commando

 

Big Buffs

 

Arsenal / Gunnery- Mercenary / commando

 

Lethality/ Dirty Fighting- Operative / Scoundrel

 

Lightning/TK-probably just needs a flat damage increase of something like 10%-15% (this is also about what it trails behind snipers and marauders in ops). It's survivability sucks and it's turrety, but if it did big damage, that might be a fair tradeoff.

 

Madness/balance-needs better force regen and an increase in burst. Preferably burst while kiting

 

Immortal-immortal needs Unstoppable moved into its tree instead of the vigilance tree. Preferably high in the tree so rage juggs can't take it. Also, it's shield needs to work on more attacks

 

Vigilance-I wouldn't mind seeing the whole tree tossed in favor of an entirely new one. Others will disagree.

 

AP-just a tough spec, conceptually to rebalance. Hold the line is great, but the money damager flamethrower is just sooooo situational in its usefulness. I would say, maybe have flamethrower root effected targets, but that might end up being grossly OP

 

Pyromerc-I think they might just need a force speed equiv. Thinking about it, what if they had a skill like jet charge that just leapt them 20m directly backwards, instead of at a target?

 

 

Lethality operatives/arsenal mercs-they're just not conceptually viable. Short of rewriting the trees completely, there just isn't much to like for pvp in either of these specs. Any suggestions I've seen to fix the latter. in particular, just ask for it to be a pyro PT equiv with 30m range, which would be completely and utterly OP

 

Madness sins-I doubt there's anything that can be done to get sins to use this tree unless tanksins or hybridtanksins got nerfed badly.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Larry_Dallas

[Larry_Dallas]

Mercs / Arsenal -> need mobility, escape mechanisms, and above all they need to be able to gun and run. Everything they have requires them to stand still and cast which in PVP is death. I would love to see death from above improved and missile blast to have its heat cost lowered to 16 so it can actually be used.

 

Merc / Pyrotech -> Needs a mobile spammable talent similar to flameburst to proc railshots instead of turretmode powershot and unload.

 

Lightning Sorc - Lightning strike should be instant cast with no activation time. Extra movement speed instead of lame stuns and controlling effects would be more appreciated.

 

These three changes would make every melee, except carnage marauders, obsolete. Pyro PTs are already strong, if you were to make pyromercs them, but with 30m, carnage is the only melee that could kill them. Maybe Hybrid jugg tanks.

 

And if lightning sorcerors could spam llghtning strike while moving...that procs chain lightning about every 8 seconds. With EB, force slow, electrocute and self-backlash, it would just be impossible to close ground on them, while they do 1.4-3k damage every global and 2.5-5k to 6 targets every 6-8 seconds, while not losing an inch of ground. And it would do even more for hybrids, who'd be throwing out deathfields periodically. What you're suggesting would be worse for warzones than the smasher epidemic.

[cycao]

1)-Remove mezzs from the game or make them single target only short stuns should remain as they are and dont come with the team strategy thing if they are single target more cordination should be needed

No, mezzes have a place in this game. The best think someone can do when stealth is mezz for stalling and if you have been stealth capped becasue of a mezz then thats on you.

2)Cut the damage so no class can hit someone for 5,6,7 or even 8k a 4.5k hit should be the biggest hit ever only performed by those very good geared players etc etc

I have no problem with big hits, I would like to be able to kill someone in a reasonable time, if 4.5 k was the biggest hits you would never be able to wipe a point.

3)Knockbacks SINGLE TARGET it cannot be tolerated that one sorc or commando can throw away 5 ppl from a bridge instakilling them or to fire pits in huttball etc etc

Might as well remove them from the game, knockbacks add resolve and is nice when you are a squish can knock back more than one enemy who is pounding on you.

4)For the love of god remove crap stats from pvp gear or atleast make them usefull in pvp so ppl wouldnt have to remodd for power surge

Gearing is faster then ever why make it any easier. It would kinda be lame if you could buy once piece of gear and have it best in slot. I actually like remodding gear and I did it when you could take a week to get a piece of gear to be able to due this.

5)Make defenses for tanks work against tech/force damage PERIOD

A tank/healer combo would be almost unkillable...especcially if you want 4.5k to be the biggest hit possible. Tanks, when played right are fine.

6)Fire the people who design the pvp/pve endgame gear and sign someone who has actually seem the movies and know what star wars its all about the current armor sets are uggly not iconic and no starwarsy the low lvl ones for troopers for example are ubbercool

actually agree, endgame gear is terrible but with WH armroings carrying the set bonus its a non issue now.

7)Make pvpers make money from pvp i pay to just pvp i dont care about daylies kthx

I do feel they should increase the payouts for PvP related things.

8)Stop wasting resources inventing crap items for the cartel market and make something usefull and fun like for example adding pvp zones outdoor so many planets and yet a pvper can stay in the fleet forever because there is no content for us elsewhere i cant remember the last time i went to tattooine aderaan etc....

Check out 1.7

 

The two things I kind of agree on have nothing to do with balance at all, other than that these changes would make PvP terrible imho.

[Larry_Dallas]

Why everyone suggest boost to immortal/vengeance Juggernaut ? WE'RE PERFECTLY FINE. Only thing bother me is PT/VG flameburst and railshot. Its not really fun when all ur defensive stats totally useless vs flameburst and railshot

 

Your defensive stats work great with railshot. Many pyros don't use much accuracy and, since railshot IS effected by defense rating, you can stack defense and watch it miss quite often.