Felling Blow (Dominate) vs Force Potency (Recklessness) - a fix for smash/sweap?

[TheTitan_KoS]

I know the opinions on is sweap/smash broken vary a lot but most threads seem to end up with trolls from both sides posting useless crap so its hard to find a decent discussion on the topic.

 

I've been playing a lot of the classes including sentinel so i've had the chance to compare the different ways to get a guaranteed crit.

 

As far as i know the only other skill that gives a much higher chance to crit on AOE skills is the Consular's/Inquisitor's - Force Potency/Recklessness. There are many skills that improve crit chance for various abilities across all classes but they are for single target skills.

 

The idea of this thread is to compare the 2 skills and to start a discussion: Is changing sweap/smash's crit to work like force potency/recklessness a good idea?

 

Sweap/Smash is so hated because it has a guaranteed crit on 5 targets it has a buff to deal dbl dmg and costs no resource. No other skill in the game has all of these combined like that and when you add to that the fact that ppl can completely ignore critical rating to maximise their dmg output it gets scary.

 

So what are the differences:

Felling blow(Dominate) gives 100% chance to crit regardless of your chars crit rating and that chance is for all targets in the aoe area, your crit rating has no role at all.

 

Force Potency (Recklessness) can stack 2 times and gives 60% chance, If you use an aoe ability (for example Force in Balance/ Death field since its in the shared tree and can be used by both advanced classes) the crit is calculated per target you can crit on 1 target or you can crit on all 3 targets if you have Force Potency (Recklessness) charges are consumed only if you crit.

 

I think sweap/smash can be "fixed" if the Felling Blow(Dominate) talents are slightly changed to work in a similar way to force potency/recklessness so what should be changed:

 

 

• Make the crit chance bonus 60% instead of 100% - all knights/warriors can get 40% force crit chance without problems specially with Insight/Malice if they want a guaranteed crit. (they can still keep their full power gear but they'll have an 80% ish chance to crit instead of 100 on the first 2/3 targets and 20 instead of 40 on the rest)
  
• Change Sweap/Smash to calculate crit chance per target and not for the whole skill - like all other AOE skills work atm for all other classes.
  
• Allow Knights/Warriors to stack Felling Blow(Dominate) by using leaps up to 2 times as standard plus one additional stack if they have Force Exhaustion/Force Crush ( if they want to crit on more ppl they can’t use the hybrid specs)
  

 

How will these changes affect Knights/Warriors well they can still crit their main target for the same amount if they want to crit a second target they'll have to leap one more time ( the buff lasts 20 seconds so its not a problem to build up the stacks). If they wish to have a guaranteed crit on 3 targets they wont have the chance to use the hybrid builds (stun/knock immunities for Guardians/Juggs or they'll have to loose the aoe dmg reduction/extra centering build up for Sentinels/Marauders). The last 2/3 targets can still be critted but the chance for that will be based on the Force critical chance that the player has.

 

If they choose to go for the full power builds they'll have a chance to not crit a target. If they hit 5 targets chances are they’ll crit on 2/3 of them but they will have very low chance to crit the rest. If they hit 1 or 2 ppl they’ll have a small chance to not crit (20% ish) in that case they’ll keep their stacks and have easier time preparing for the next sweap.

 

It will make their rotation slightly harder as they'll need to use more leaps and will have to build up 2 different buffs but its not something that will make the class hard to play.

 

It will reduce their total dmg but without gimping the class - they'll still be able to hit for similar numbers (or slightly lower if they want guranteed crit) on 2/3 targets instead of always 5.

 

So what do you guys think is a change like that going to improve the situation with sweap/smash bare in mind this mechanic is already in the game for other skills so they dont need to develop something totaly new like some other ppl suggest ( debuffs on targets after sweap/smash for example) and should be esier to implement.

[Ycoga]

Not a bad idea, +1.

[DarthNofu]

I have no complaints. +1

[Riggz]

I like it +1

[Zunayson]

Probably won't fix much. It's still basically a super high crit chance, and most of the time you'd still get a crit off. But, if it'll be like the pyro "nerf" just to shut up QQers I guess it could work.

[Riggz]

Probably won't fix much. It's still basically a super high crit chance, and most of the time you'd still get a crit off. But, if it'll be like the pyro "nerf" just to shut up QQers I guess it could work.

 

Just saying "we nerfed it" would make most fotm players abandon it, even if nothing changed

[Ramtar]

Smash/Sweep doesn't need fixing. It is working as intended. People want to reduce it's damage so that they don't have to adjust their playing styles.

 

Also, do people really want Focus Sentinels to start stacking Critical mods because Focus tree buffs all Focus attacks? Sure reduce the damage on Sweep, but people will be back on the forums screaming that they got hit by a 5-6k Slash, and 6k Dispatch.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Ramtar

[Yeochins]

It'll work if it forces them to actually keep critical rating in a Warriors gear.

 

Currently Carnage (Marauder) and Rage (Marauder/Juggernaught), can eliminate critical-rating from their gear and purely stack power/surge, or power/accuracy. This increases their bonus damage and drastically increases their damage output because Marauder and Juggernaught skills scale extremely well to the damage range on the character sheet.

 

Going up 100 damage in the character sheet translates to obscene numbers for Ravage, Force-scream, Smash, etc.

[Esiqual]

The only fix rage/focus spec needs is to move the force potency stacks to apply to bladestorm / force scream and keep everything else the same. This means there hardest potential hitter is single target but relies on your force crit multiplier to determine its crit chance. This forces them to take crit gear while also making there hardest potential hitter single target but with the added benefit of having a 10m range, slightly higher based dmg and unavoidable. They should get to keep everything else the same including a free crit on smash / sweep.

[Smashbrother]

The only fix rage/focus spec needs is to move the force potency stacks to apply to bladestorm / force scream and keep everything else the same. This means there hardest potential hitter is single target but relies on your force crit multiplier to determine its crit chance. This forces them to take crit gear while also making there hardest potential hitter single target but with the added benefit of having a 10m range, slightly higher based dmg and unavoidable. They should get to keep everything else the same including a free crit on smash / sweep.

 

I think this is a fine change too, although I would rather have force potency affect both sweep and blade storm. Whichever you use first uses up the charges. This way I can choose which I want to spend my charges on.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Smashbrother

[Esiqual]

I think this is a fine change too, although I would rather have force potency affect both sweep and blade storm. Whichever you use first uses up the charges. This way I can choose which I want to spend my charges on.

 

Hey thx for the response, the only reason why i said it should only apply to force scream / bladestorm was to ensure that a 4 stack force potency charge cant be combined to an auto crit talented ability. This ensures that if you want to hit your highest potential burst you need to take crit rated gear or put up with a low base force crit chance. I don't see this as a problem though because bladestorm / force scream has a higher base damage then sweep / smash does so a 4 stack force scream would still be potent even without a potential crit. I also think the other change that would be necessary is to put all force potency talents in tier 5 or 6 of the rage/focus tree so marauders and sentinals cant create an auto crit blade storm with force potency hybrid.

[L-RANDLE]

The only fix rage/focus spec needs is to move the force potency stacks to apply to bladestorm / force scream and keep everything else the same. This means there hardest potential hitter is single target but relies on your force crit multiplier to determine its crit chance. This forces them to take crit gear while also making there hardest potential hitter single target but with the added benefit of having a 10m range, slightly higher based dmg and unavoidable. They should get to keep everything else the same including a free crit on smash / sweep.

 

Wait.. Wut?

 

 

I think you mean move Shockwave/Singularity to proc Force Scream/Blade Storm. Also Force crit chance, not Force crit multiplier (base crit multiplier is the same on force or non-force attacks, Force Crit Multiplier is +30 on top, but spec related again)

 

 

There are some issues with your thoughts though:

1. A crit Smash hit is pretty weak without the stacks... <4K. The spec has issues with sustained damage without Smash being the way it is now...

 

2. Blade Storm/Scream is already pretty strong on a crit. It would change the AoE QQ, but would then be OP'd(6-7K Blade Storms?).

 

3. You still won't have to "stack Crit", because the combination of gear(strenth) and spec(See Malice/Insight) already puts Rage/Focus players @ 30% Force Crit Chance, with a ~105% Force Crit mutiplier, and Smash still has an auto-crit. I'm still stacking power/main.

 

 

 

The easiet solution (that is if you want to nerf Burst any further than they already have...)is to change the proc to Slash/VS(non-Force Attack: double power suject to base surge and melee crit chance) and Buff Smash to crit around 4-5K. Then it would be inline with other hard hitting AoE Force/Tech attacks. Then leap would effectively be the "Force Potency" of Rage/Focus Specers...

Edited January 11, 2013 by L-RANDLE