Gear from content, not from market!

[gwek]

And now, for a dissenting (and minority) viewpoint:

 

I LIKE the Cartel Market. I use the Cartel Market. I buy still there that I like the use of, or look of, and if I'm having a slow days, I'll drop a few bucks on a pack or two for a little thrill.

 

When I hit level 50, I was excited that I could basically have whatever look I wanted for my character. I don't have to worry about wearing crappy looking armor because the stats are good. So I spent a little while exploring my options, bought the armor I wanted from the Cartel Market, bought the mods I wanted from the GTN and made the equipment I wanted.

 

Is that less satisfying to me than killing 530 grobblaxes for a 1% chance of a super-rare drop? No. Because that makes me want to stab myself in the eye. Different strokes for different folks. Some people enjoy the thrill of the random drop, and I don't begrudge them that. But that ain't how I play. I want to play the story, and maybe an occassional flashpoint, and then I mostly want to be left alone to have my experience the way I want it to be. And in a small way, the Cartel Market helps that.

[Diablo_Cow]

1. Lazy is different than misinformed which is what you're suggesting.

 

2. Revan's armor, go.

 

3. You said yourself that the market has reskins of various armors, these aren't available anywhere but on the market. Along with armor that have different stylistic changes on them(Jedi Knight character creation armor). There also is just armor that has never been seen anywhere in any variation in game.

 

Revan's chest look a like: http://www.torhead.com/item/8aIzUJr/elder-battleminds-vestments#dropped-by;sort:-name

Revans lower robe look a like: http://www.torhead.com/item/20XRa6u/sith-corruptors-pants

Revan's belt look a like: http://www.torhead.com/item/bsJ2bNb/prototype-elder-battleminds-sash

Revan's gloves look a like: http://www.torhead.com/item/3jewBzR/gloves-of-the-force-nimbus

Revan's mask look a like: http://www.torhead.com/item/fOdaRic/tbd-prototype-l35-melee-dps-alt-str-head-bis or http://www.torhead.com/item/fOdaRic/tbd-prototype-l35-melee-dps-alt-str-head-bis

The first link for the head piece is what is still obtainable. The Battlemaster headpiece has since been removed due to 1.6 but either the medium or the heavy variants complete the look without the exact colors. This means sorcs are screwed but maras and jugs can make it work if they deserve. Sadly I can't find a good picture of revan's boots since well they are covered by the robes.

 

EDIT: edited for spelling mistakes.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Diablo_Cow

[mjwhitt]

The main issue here is that we want to interact with the game to get our gear, not with he CM. Sure the CM suits some people and thats fine but there are people who pay a sub to this game who dont want to get their gear from a cash shop because there is almost no interaction with the game that way.

 

Going out into the world and discovering things, exploring, doing WZ, flashpoints, operations, killing rare mobs for rare loot that only drops on a wed, whatever. these things get you out into the world. It creates positive experiences, meeting people, building friendships and creating cool memories to look back on. Getting the gear you want at the end of it brings an enormous sense of achievement and satisfaction and whenever you wear said gear you feel like you earned it and it brings back great memories of the stuff you got up to.

 

Putting it only in a cash shop removes all of this. You go to the fleet, buy it on the cash shop and you are done. How boring and flat is that? Just dont make CM the ONLY way for this stuff. People will have amore positive outlook on this game if the above is considered, im sure of it.

 

^ What he said.

 

All MMOs boil down to the same very basic thing. Game creator releases new stuff, you acquire new stuff, you keep playing, you keep paying, game creator makes money. Rinse, repeat. But the reason people keep playing, and the reason people choose one MMO over another (when they're all basically the same formula), is the method in which you acquire new stuff. If you have fun doing it, you keep playing... and paying.

 

The reason so much stuff being released via the Cartel Market is so off putting to a lot of people is because it's changing the way you acquire new things in a way that is not fun for those people. Doing in-game content, flashpoints, operations, warzones, quests, etc. is a way for people to acquire cool new stuff in a fun way (playing the game!) that covers up the fact that it's all just a ploy to keep you playing and paying.

 

Just buying stuff from the Cartel Market or GTN is too blatantly "game creator releases new stuff, you buy new stuff... rinse, repeat". It removes the fun I used to have from acquiring new content by playing the game.

 

The game is F2P with a Cartel Market. That's a fact. So I can live with some stuff being released via the Cartel Market. But the rate at which new stuff is being released only via the Cartel Market is not giving me an enticing reason to keep playing. I will keep playing as long as I'm having fun, but Shopping Simulator is not what I consider fun.

[SlimsPicken]

To be clear, I dont give a rats **** about adaptive cartel armor. I havent spent a coin on looking cool, or being "first!"

 

Im talking about adaptive LEGACY sets from events. You know, the type you can gear up your alts by slapping mods in them and mailing back and forth. I wear the containment set on my AIM users... do you think I care what it looks like? nope, it looks like a giant yellow piece of ****, but the point of the LEGACY adaptive gear was to make alts less painful by not having to repeat the same content ad infinitum just to gear up on each character instead of using the mods you already earned with legacy gear.

 

And from what I see, these sets are probably never going to be earned in game through events again. Because why give them away for playing content, when they can make you pay for them instead. So if we ever see these adaptive LEGACY gear sets (containment armor/sand people bloodguard outfit) it will be as purchased items without doubt.

 

Which is completely lame and devalues the whole subscription price, and legacy system as implemented.

[Goretzu]

While I like the Cartel Market and agree that some things like Reven's outfit, Darth Nihilus and some of the cool looking weapons should involve having a long quest chain to obtain it (that doesn't involve killing world bosses 18 times).

 

However, some gears that are class restricted, you should have to pay for since you are paying for access to something you normally do not have access to.

 

On the other note though. I wish some of the items could be re-engineered so you can learn how to make them, rather than making them Cartel Market restricted, but it would break the market now wouldn't it.

 

 

 

I'm not sure I follow the "you should have to pay real money to have your gear break in-game Lore" arguement.

[macumba]

actually I must say I think that's okay with the revan armor, or any cosmetic item on the cartel market. the money must come from somewhere right ?

what I do not agree with is taking things out of the game and into the cartel market. they made the gunslinger sounds suck totally (charged burst) leaving the only cool sounding weapon in the cartel market. this is as if they made all regular armor pink with the only black armor on the cartel market.

[SithVeritas]

If Applebee's ran their price structure like TOR, a burger and fries would cost you $15 but ketchup for your fries would cost you $20.

 

Edit P.S.: I have no problems with paying $15 for an MMO, it's good value no matter how you look at it. I think charging more than $15 for reskins of things that my subscription paid for is assinine.

 

100% agreed. The current stuff in the CM should be included in the sub. I'll pay for ''real'' fluff.

[Fornix]

The EWH gear is simple a recoloring of the WH gear... if anything the EWH further proves the dearth of new gear added since F2P...

 

Gear recolors are nothing new to BioWare, they have done so prior to the announcement of the CM as well. And furthermore, some CM items are simply recolors of ingame items. If anything it only shows that BioWare uses lack of inspiration and lack of ingame dyes as a way to easily introduce new gear.

[Goretzu]

Gear recolors are nothing new to BioWare, they have done so prior to the announcement of the CM as well. And furthermore, some CM items are simply recolors of ingame items. If anything it only shows that BioWare uses lack of inspiration and lack of ingame dyes as a way to easily introduce new gear.

 

Recolours aren't new gear though they are recolours.

 

If like most MMORPGs SWTOR had a dye system this would be even more apparent.

[Blackardin]

The Elite War Hero Gear was introduced after the introduction of the Cartel Market. And I have no doubt that with the introduction of new flashpoints/ops we'll see new gear thrown in as well. Beyond that, also with the introduction of Makeb, we'll surely be seeing new gear for the 51-55 range added.

 

MMO's rarely throw in new gear outside of a market into existing content, but only add gear with newly developed content.

 

Who said we are going to see new Ops and flashpoints?

 

This is how it is folks. Everything worth doing in game will be through the cash shop. There is no additional money to be earned by allowing subs to have it.....and that's what its all about at this point in time, separating you from your money.

[Ooloi]

i told people in multiple posts before f2p2p2p2w launched that it would be like this. a lot of people didn't want to listen.

 

you will never again see the "cool stuff" in game. there will be countless reiterations of good stuff on the cash shop, but there will not be in-game methods of acquiring it yourself via dent of your own efforts. buy it from the cash shop or buyfrom someone who bought it from the cash shop; ea gets its cash either way.

 

gone are the days when you *play the game* in order to get the rewards of the game.

[-Me-]

1st to OP I agree with you. It's all part of that special something this game is missing. There is no sense of achievement, all we have is a gear grind any now they are taking anything worthy of encouraging players to seek rewards through gameplay and putting it all up for instant purchase. Why would anyone play the game when they don't have to?

 

Dumbing the game down is not only difficulty levels, its also not making players go out and earn the good stuff.

 

Here's where I may get in trouble around here but it's a very large part of my opinion why the game tanked. I wouldn't have a single piece of orange/purple gear obtainable as a whole through gameplay or the cartel market. It would all be schematics, every single peace, even the cartel market items, even for F2P people, all schematics from armor to speeders to space parts. We would have a much much happier large community of crafters. Those crafters can put crafted pieces on the GTN all they want but if a player by whatever means gets a schematic they want then they should have to either become a crafter or seek one out. If EA must put items in the cartel market then those items should be schematics period.

 

There should be server specific trade forums where players seek out crafters or advertise their wares. That my friends is called a player run economy and a no fail in giving everyone a sense of community and community is something I personally have yet to find in this game and have been told by a many of people as being a large part of their decision to unsubscribe.

[SentinelDranoel]

No, No, No, No. The gear must remain separate, there is no reason to buy items from the CM if people could get it in game. That is like heavy armor Sith Warriors buying the Sith Armor set, no one is going to do that. At the same time, more people will purchase the gear as opposed to having to rely on a operation and a flashpoint. For a example, the harder the gear is to get, the less people you see in it. Rakata and Dreadmaster are good examples, you have to win a roll between all the other members in a ops group. If you obtain this gear because your guild helps you do it then good for you, what about everyone else in the game? In the CM, every player has access to the gear and at a price. Even worse than that is trying to get full columi for a cunning toon without having to buy each piece with comms. I think people just want to look special in gear no one else have for doing the hardest content. Like people care in this MMO, people spend more time in the story and not looking at other players gear. If it is easy and capable of being done mostly solo, I bet everyone would have it like HK. It is just instant, get the armor now and keep playing.

 

As of now BW has no alternative way to get gear. OPS and Flashpoints already have gear sets, it maakes no sense to create one operation and flashpoints that drops only one set of gear which is why I understand why they have tiers. They need EVENTS that happen multiple times a month that has gear sets. Mini games that allow them to get another gear set. At the same time lets be realistic, judging from the first year, do they really think they will do this? It seems like only a minority support this "gear from content, not from market" idea.

Edited January 10, 2013 by SentinelDranoel

[Goretzu]

No, No, No, No. The gear must remain separate, there is no reason to buy items from the CM if people could get it in game. That is like heavy armor Sith Warriors buying the Sith Armor set, no one is going to do that. At the same time, more people will purchase the gear as opposed to having to rely on a operation and a flashpoint. For a example, the harder the gear is to get, the less people you see in it. Rakata and Dreadmaster are good examples, you have to win a roll between all the other members in a ops group. If you obtain this gear because your guild helps you do it then good for you, what about everyone else in the game? In the CM, every player has access to the gear and at a price. Even worse than that is trying to get full columi for a cunning toon without having to buy each piece with comms. I think people just want to look special in gear no one else have for doing the hardest content. Like people care in this MMO, people spend more time in the story and not looking at other players gear. If it is easy and capable of being done mostly solo, I bet everyone would have it like HK. It is just instant, get the armor now and keep playing.

 

As of now BW has no alternative way to get gear. OPS and Flashpoints already have gear sets, it maakes no sense to create one operation and flashpoints that drops only one set of gear which is why I understand why they have tiers. They need EVENTS that happen multiple times a month that has gear sets. Mini games that allow them to get another gear set. At the same time lets be realistic, judging from the first year, do they really think they will do this? It seems like only a minority support this "gear from content, not from market" idea.

 

 

 

Take Jedi Valient gear though, now ignore that it probably should have been in the game from Day 1, and consider that IF it was put in as a high level raid piece and an adaptive armour Cashshop piece at the same time there would be no real problem as you could get it both ways.

 

Yes Bioware EA may make maringally less, but given that people running that sort of PvE content would be SUBSCRIBERS anyway basically so they should.

 

As things stand subscribers are certainly being nickle and dimed for the subscription and then having to use the Cashshop as the ONLY way to get stuff too.

[Listerman]

Armor is too expensive. I save my coins for silly things.

[Monoth]

As long as people keep buying the stuff on the cartel shop they will keep selling it....

 

The whole F2P concept came from people buying gold from gold farmers.... Game companies are just giving people what they wanted.... Enjoy your Utopia...

[mjwhitt]

Take Jedi Valient gear though, now ignore that it probably should have been in the game from Day 1, and consider that IF it was put in as a high level raid piece and an adaptive armour Cashshop piece at the same time there would be no real problem as you could get it both ways.

 

Yes. Many people would take easy route and just buy the gear they want (which is fine), but those who subscribe and want to play the game to acquire new stuff could also do so. Why subscribe when you still have to pay (via GTN or CM) instead of play to get the cool new stuff?

[kirorx]

Selling items and making a profit is easier for EA than dishing out finance to create more content just to give away content to players that are already paying the monthly fee wheter the content is there or not.

 

In other words, what would be the incentive for the company to give stuff away for free when we will pay almost 20 bucks for a recolored piece of armor.

[uziforyou]

This is how they intend to make money now, with the Cashshop.

 

Personally I'm not expecting much decent looking gear to come through content anymore, just through the Cashshop.

 

QFT

 

What's interesting is anyone at all that didn't expect this to happen. It's the F2P model and it's not like EA/Bioware was hiding what their intentions for the game were. We all still have the same choices, live within the F2P model or go find another form of entertainment. How F2P works for making money isn't going away, it's the cartel market not "earning" anything in game as the OP put it.

[LordSkyKnight]

A lot of people here made good points and hit the nail right on the head.

 

 

Why is Bioware doing this free to play cash shop gear thing? Because there are fools out there and that will buy it. That's what they want and they are happy with it. The game changed into exactly what they wanted. The people who hated it have already left. Why is the forum filled with negative posts? Because some are hoping for a change that will never come.

 

I love Star Wars, I wanted this game to be so much. I didn't cancel before because I kept hoping it would swing in the direction I wanted it to but it's not going to happen. They will keep doing these silly things as long as the money keeps dropping into their pockets.

 

I have been thinking about this a lot for the last couple weeks and that is why I just canceled my account before posting this message. The way the game is going isn't going to change. It will not change. The rest of you will either have to come to this conclusion yourself and decide to deal with it or let them know with your sub and leave. It's just not worth it at this point anymore.

[GalacticKegger]

I personally have no issue with pay 2 look cool. I don't get performance gear from the cash shop anyway (except the crystals ... I feel they need to revisit that) and my monthly subscriber stipend will cover the cost of pretty much anything I want from there. Every piece of gear I have for 15 characters across 3 servers (3 of 'em are 50s doing end game) was obtained via drops, rewards or crafting. If gear from the market is all a player sees then they really need to get their heads out of there and actually play the game. Edited January 10, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[KariTalRathe]

What this game needs ( a major overhaul?) are faction type grinds with rewards (pets, mounts, gear, weapons). I don't really understand why this was not in game on launch. Exploration on a planet, killing certain enemies adds stuff to your codex, but unless your super into codex entries and lore there's no reason to ever open your Codex after your first character when you checked out the crew skills...

 

Putting in daily faction grinds on planets with gear and the like would not only help with the current gear situation but give us 50's something to do

 

I don't know where this thread is up to as I only got as far as this post before having to reply. I thank the gods there is not much of this type of grind in SWTOR, there is enough of that vomit-inducing gameplay in other current MMOs, I would hate to see it repeated here.

 

I do understand the OP's point and have sympathy for it, but at the same time whether by (long) quest or by Cartel Shop the effect in game will be the same either way. However, if putting iconic items on the Cartel Market means additional income for Bioware, then that is a good thing for all of us. Support has to go both ways and more power to them I say.

[Beslley]

I hate to say "I told you so," but, well

 

I told you so.

 

As soon as the cash shop was announced, I knew this was going to happen. They will probably keep the end-game players happy by MAYBE adding in an exclusive raid mount or two, maybe a raid pet, but the majority of the cool items will end up in the cash shop. Guaranteed.

 

I know, it's a total scumbag way to do things, but what did you expect? This is Bioware/EA we're talking about, who thought it was perfectly fine to release ME3 with different color fireworks and call them "endings", and then finally added rubbish DLC to appease angry fans. Yeah, you had to pay to fix their rubbish ending. This coupled with their gross mismanagement of an MMO that should have been a surefire hit (Star Wars is a HUGE IP, how could they screw it up so badly?) and it's pretty clear that they are in this to make a quick buck, and hopefully recoup their development losses from SWTOR.

 

Again, what did you expect?

Edited January 10, 2013 by Beslley

[chewyonthis]

^^^^^

[Revanchis]

I hate to say "I told you so," but, well

 

I told you so.

 

As soon as the cash shop was announced, I knew this was going to happen. They will probably keep the end-game players happy by MAYBE adding in an exclusive raid mount or two, maybe a raid pet, but the majority of the cool items will end up in the cash shop. Guaranteed.

 

I know, it's a total scumbag way to do things, but what did you expect? This is Bioware/EA we're talking about, who thought it was perfectly fine to release ME3 with different color fireworks and call them "endings", and then finally added rubbish DLC to appease angry fans. Yeah, you had to pay to fix their rubbish ending. This coupled with their gross mismanagement of an MMO that should have been a surefire hit (Star Wars is a HUGE IP, how could they screw it up so badly?) and it's pretty clear that they are in this to make a quick buck, and hopefully recoup their development losses from SWTOR.

 

Again, what did you expect?

 

Well, it's better than having them be exclusive to Ops. At least with a cash shop everyone has equal access to them without gating them behind a ******** minigame that only a portion of people play.