Kaggath Heats: Traya vs Plagueis

[Wolfninjajedi]

Good points.

 

So let's say Plagueis, Maul and the Sun Guard go to Malachor V. The Sun Guard is not going to last long against the planet itself. So they are basically removed from the equation as are any hired guns that Plagueis might bring along(would he do that?). So it's just Plaguies and Maul vs. Traya, Sion, the Trayus Academy, Storm Beasts, and Malachor.

 

Doesn't look too good for Plagueis now. Though Plagueis has a good chance of taking down Traya one-on-one. Maul not so much. This depends on whether Plagueis and Maul can fight past those mentioned above.

 

Edit: Come to think of it, Malachor actually helps Plagueis.

 

Not entirely sure you should count out the Sun Guard on Malachor...I could see them doing well against the Storm Beasts given what they are outfitted with and what they are trained in. The Academy though? A different story, but that depends on how many enemies would be in the Academy. I could see them lasting against an average dark force user, given the Sun Guards are primarily trained for CQC and are decked out specifically for CQC....they also do have pikes which have cortosis on them to help against lightsabers, given they are also trained in Echani combat this also helps them read their opponents moves.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Segastorm]

Still casting my vote for traya here, but I thought she didn't have the ravager?

[Wolfninjajedi]

Still casting my vote for traya here, but I thought she didn't have the ravager?

 

She didn't really...but Beni is letting her have it for this match. Beni said something about it on the 1st page.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Not entirely sure you should count out the Sun Guard on Malachor...I could see them doing well against the Storm Beasts given what they are outfitted with and what they are trained in. The Academy though? A different story, but that depends on how many enemies would be in the Academy. I could see them lasting against an average dark force user, given the Sun Guards are primarily trained for CQC and are decked out specifically for CQC....they also do have pikes which have cortosis on them to help against lightsabers, given they are also trained in Echani combat this also helps them read their opponents moves.

 

Remember that Malachor is a Dark Side nexus that will create some chaos amongst the Sun Guard ranks. While Maul and Plagueis will only be empowered by the Nexus(I'm concerned for Maul though he'll probably be fine), the Sun Guard won't be. I doubt the Sun Guard will be able to handle the Dark energies of a Dark Side nexus. But can Plagueis protect them from it? Is that even possible? Let's go off of the basis that some make it to the Academy.

 

A member of the Sun Guard should have no issue dealing with your average Assassin or Dark Jedi, but the Academy is also home to Sith Lord, Marauders and Elite Assassins. I have no doubt that Plagueis and Maul will do just fine, but I'm not too sure on how the Sun Guard will do.

 

But I don't think it really matters. Let's say whatever members that did enter are killed, leaving Maul and Plagueis to deal with Traya and Sion.

 

Before continuing with that scenario, I think we should address Midichlorian manipulation. Can it be used to kill others? Like I have said, I haven't read the Plagueis novel (will read it soon ) so I'm not completely informed on the capabilities of the ability. So can it be used in such a manner? That would ensure Plagueis' victory here.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Remember that Malachor is a Dark Side nexus that will create some chaos amongst the Sun Guard ranks. While Maul and Plagueis will only be empowered by the Nexus(I'm concerned for Maul though he'll probably be fine), the Sun Guard won't be. I doubt the Sun Guard will be able to handle the Dark energies of a Dark Side nexus. But can Plagueis protect them from it? Is that even possible? Let's go off of the basis that some make it to the Academy.

 

A member of the Sun Guard should have no issue dealing with your average Assassin or Dark Jedi, but the Academy is also home to Sith Lord, Marauders and Elite Assassins. I have no doubt that Plagueis and Maul will do just fine, but I'm not too sure on how the Sun Guard will do.

 

But I don't think it really matters. Let's say whatever members that did enter are killed, leaving Maul and Plagueis to deal with Traya and Sion.

 

Before continuing with that scenario, I think we should address Midichlorian manipulation. Can it be used to kill others? Like I have said, I haven't read the Plagueis novel (will read it soon ) so I'm not completely informed on the capabilities of the ability. So can it be used in such a manner? That would ensure Plagueis' victory here.

 

Not really seeing anything about it on his page, but then again it could still be there. But Plagueis already is powerful in The Force with his Force Wave(atomization), Force Bellow, Force Lighting and moving very fast while wielding two lightsabers I don't think its entirely fair to say that he could only win just by Midichlorian manipulation. Unless he is able to do it instantly, I don't see it helping him really.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Not really seeing anything about it on his page, but then again it could still be there. Though I don't see why it really can matter, Plagueis already is powerful in The Force with his Force Wave(atomization), Force Bellow, Force Lighting and moving very fast while wielding two lightsabers.

 

True. But an offensive use for Midichlorian Manipulation would seal the deal imo.

 

We shouldn't forget that Traya herself is quite formidable, having many incredibly powerful abilities. But I would have to say that Plagueis could beat her in a straight fight.

 

Huh. I think we just settled the battle.

 

Not saying anything against Traya, but I think Plagueis has it here. I had originally thought Traya would win(but I don't know very much about Plagueis so I was going off of what I know), but I think I'm siding with Plagueis here. In the end, though, I think Plagueis would be the only one left standing.

 

Edit: Missed that last part lol.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Aurbere

[Wolfninjajedi]

True. But an offensive use for Midichlorian Manipulation would seal the deal imo.

 

We shouldn't forget that Traya herself is quite formidable, having many incredibly powerful abilities. But I would have to say that Plagueis could beat her in a straight fight.

 

Huh. I think we just settled the battle.

 

Not saying anything against Traya, but I think Plagueis has it here. I had originally thought Traya would win(but I don't know very much about Plagueis so I was going off of what I know), but I think I'm siding with Plagueis here. In the end, though, I think Plagueis would be the only one left standing.

 

Edit: Missed that last part lol.

 

None of her offensive abilities would be really effective against Plagueis, the only abilities I could see working are...

 

Force speed

 

Force Lighting

 

Force Scream

 

She was skilled in Shii-Cho, Makashi and Soresu whereas Plagueis with him was Niman/Jar'Kai.

 

Form 1 would be pretty much useless unless Traya was a master.

 

Form 2 I guess I could see working, but I dunno.

 

Form 3 I can only see Traya lasting for a little bit.

 

The weakness for Jar'Kai involving the whole "batter away until done" could hinder Plagueis though. Traya's telekenetic saber combat could be useful however with Plagueis powers, he could in theory just destroy the sabers with Force Wave or send them flying with Force Bellow given he was very powerful in those force powers.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

None of her offensive abilities would be really effective against Plagueis, the only abilities I could see working are...

 

Force speed

 

Force Lighting

 

Force Scream

 

She was skilled in Shii-Cho, Makashi and Soresu whereas Plagueis with him was Niman/Jar'Kai.

 

Form 1 would be pretty much useless unless Traya was a master.

 

Form 2 I guess I could see working, but I dunno.

 

Form 3 I can only see Traya lasting for a little bit.

 

The weakness for Jar'Kai involving the whole "batter away until done" could hinder Plagueis though. Traya's telekenetic saber combat could be useful however with Plagueis powers, he could in theory just destroy the sabers with Force Wave or send them flying with Force Bellow given he was very powerful in those force powers.

 

Hmm... yeah. Plagueis' skills with Jar'Kai could be outmatched by the floating sabers, but he could just bat them aside and kill her.

 

Really, I think Traya could just kill Maul and Plagueis will attack her. Then after the battle he brings Maul back to life. But I believe Traya's Sever Force/Force Drain combo would prevent Plagueis from bringing Maul back(if I am understand Midichlorian manipulation correctly).

 

Edit: On the note of floating sabers, wouldn't Traya distract him with two and just have a third one stab him in the back? Wouldn't Plagueis' lack of precog abilities prevent him from feeling the attack coming?

 

Or he could just hear the blade behind him

Edited January 9, 2013 by Aurbere

[Wolfninjajedi]

Hmm... yeah. Plagueis' skills with Jar'Kai could be outmatched by the floating sabers, but he could just bat them aside and kill her.

 

Really, I think Traya could just kill Maul and Plagueis will attack her. Then after the battle he brings Maul back to life. But I believe Traya's Sever Force/Force Drain combo would prevent Plagueis from bringing Maul back(if I am understand Midichlorian manipulation correctly).

 

Edit: On the note of floating sabers, wouldn't Traya distract him with two and just have a third one stab him in the back? Wouldn't Plagueis' lack of precog abilities prevent him from feeling the attack coming?

 

Or he could just hear the blade behind him

 

Wait if Traya would already be dead, then how would she stop Plagueis from bringing Maul back after the fight? Not that it really matters anyway, cause that would be the end of the Kaggath but even so.

 

I'm not entirely sure on that...does his lack of precog really go that far as to he wouldn't even sense in battle? But ya, he could always hear the hum of the saber and if he notes that there is 3 and he is only being attacked by two am pretty sure he isn't such a big a moron to have the 3rd come up behind him.

[Segastorm]

Okay, looking up Plagueis a bit (apparently i misspelled his name every time I mentioned him until this point). I still argue for Traya.

It seems to me that 1 vs 1, Plagueis could take a lot of people, and I have no doubt Traya and Sion are among them. I'd still agree with him being able to kill Sion through the use of Midichlorian manipulation, but it's worth noting that we're not really sure how long it would take to manipulate them like that.

Nonetheless, if Traya had backup (Sion, some assassins, about double the sith as there are assassins), he could easily force Plaegius to consistently revive his teammates, rather than actually fight, until either his allies' organs gave out (as with Darth Venamis), or he just chose to do something on the offensive, sacrificing most (if not all) of his allies in the process. Remember that the Trayus academy had quite a few rooms that were easily missed, and, if Maul takes his time and has the experience, could sense them. We have to remember though, she is a master of deception, and could make it's student body seem much smaller than it really is until the time is right...

Even with all of Plagueis's powers, i think he could still be worn down enough to be taken somewhat easily by Traya.

[Aurbere]

I'm not entirely sure on that...does his lack of precog really go that far as to he wouldn't even sense in battle? But ya, he could always hear the hum of the saber and if he notes that there is 3 and he is only being attacked by two am pretty sure he isn't such a big a moron to have the 3rd come up behind him.

 

I don't know. Maybe Traya uses some underhanded tactic and turns the third one on mid-fight(in his back of course ). I don't know, I'm just spit-balling here lol.

 

Seriously, I would like to see Traya win, but I think Plagueis will win here. I could see Traya out-wit Plagueis, but as it stands it seems Plagueis has won here. Traya would have to kill him outside of Malachor (via assassins or some other method) in order to win.

[Aurbere]

I just thought of a quick question here:

 

Is Plagueis' immortality making him immune to Sever Force and Force Drain? Traya could use these abilities in the same way she killed Kavar, Vrook and Ell to kill Plagueis if he isn't immune to them.

 

Again, not entirely familiar with Plagueis' abilities(still waiting for Plagueis novel ).

[Wolfninjajedi]

I just thought of a quick question here:

 

Is Plagueis' immortality making him immune to Sever Force and Force Drain? Traya could use these abilities in the same way she killed Kavar, Vrook and Ell to kill Plagueis if he isn't immune to them.

 

Again, not entirely familiar with Plagueis' abilities(still waiting for Plagueis novel ).

 

The question is though, would Traya be powerful enough to even use those powers on Plagueis? There is a difference level of power between Kavar, Vrook and Ell with Plagueis. As I seem to recall, force users can negate one another's abilities if they are strong enough or not caught off guard. Plus as I see it, Sever Force just doesn't seem to be an ability used in combat that would be really weird and cheap.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

The question is though, would Traya be powerful enough to even use those powers on Plagueis? There is a difference level of power between Kavar, Vrook and Ell with Plagueis. As I seem to recall, force users can negate one another's abilities if they are strong enough or not caught off guard.

 

That's a good question. And you are right about the ability to resist or even negate attacks. Traya herself is quite powerful, but not as powerful as the likes of Plaguies, Kun and others.

 

See what I did there^

 

Anyway, I think Traya could put up quite the fight against Plagueis but she would lose eventually.

 

However, would Traya let it come down to one-on-one? Would she have some trick up her sleeve? Would it even work? We've settled that Plagueis would win a duel, so these are the only questions I have. I think Traya would have a few tricks up her sleeve, but they may not work.

 

Let's say Traya has some Assassins lying in wait in case she loses, and before Plagueis strikes her down, the assassins strike.

 

Speculation, I know. I'm still fighting for Traya even though I think Plagueis will win!

[Aurbere]

Plus as I see it, Sever Force just doesn't seem to be an ability used in combat that would be really weird and cheap.

 

Yeah, I don't recall Sever Force ever being used in combat. Nomi Sunrider used it after her battle with Ulic Qel-Droma. Odan-Urr only used it rarely and that was on the final Sith Lords after the GHW. So I don't think it can be used mid-fight.

[Wolfninjajedi]

That's a good question. And you are right about the ability to resist or even negate attacks. Traya herself is quite powerful, but not as powerful as the likes of Plaguies, Kun and others.

 

See what I did there^

 

Anyway, I think Traya could put up quite the fight against Plagueis but she would lose eventually.

 

However, would Traya let it come down to one-on-one? Would she have some trick up her sleeve? Would it even work? We've settled that Plagueis would win a duel, so these are the only questions I have. I think Traya would have a few tricks up her sleeve, but they may not work.

 

Let's say Traya has some Assassins lying in wait in case she loses, and before Plagueis strikes her down, the assassins strike.

 

Speculation, I know. I'm still fighting for Traya even though I think Plagueis will win!

 

That could work with the assassins....however if Maul would come up later(Plagueis might would wanna deal with Traya on his own), he could strike down the assassins before they even touched Plageuis too.

[Aurbere]

That could work with the assassins....however if Maul would come up later(Plagueis might would wanna deal with Traya on his own), he could strike down the assassins before they even touched Plageuis too.

 

True. Maul is kinda like his shield here.

[Wolfninjajedi]

True. Maul is kinda like his shield here.

 

Hmm....anything else we need to go over? Can't really think of anything.

[Aurbere]

Hmm....anything else we need to go over? Can't really think of anything.

 

Nothing I can think of. We'll see what Beni has to say in Traya's favor!

[Makoto_Shishio]

Do note that in the Novel, Plagueis has been shown to atomize 6 of his assailants with a force wave before killing the other 40 assassins, kill his enemies through their midichlorians etc etc.

 

There's no way a sever force would so easily work on a powerful and dangerous force user along with the fact that id argue that Plagueis is a far more dangerous and deadly combatant than Traya is, other than being exceptionally skilled with lightsaber combat, his movement was described to be a thunderbolt racing through the trees.

 

It was even hinted that had Sidious actually faced Plagueis in direct combat, he might have been undermined by Plagueis force powers and combat skills.

 

In a 1v1 scenario here, Traya has no chance in hell to beat Plagueis.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Makoto_Shishio

[Wolfninjajedi]

Do not that in the Novel, Plagueis has been shown to atomize 6 of his assailants with a force wave before killing the other 40 assassins, kill his enemies through their midichlorians etc etc.

 

There's no way a sever force would so easily work on a powerful combatant.

 

Ya kinda covered that bit. Well the Force Wave bit anyway, but more info is great too. Actually noting that, he could potentially solo the entire Academy given that Malachor would enhance him even without he still has a chance to.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Ausstig]

Sions' powers'; ie the immortality, comes from the Force doesn't it?

 

So can't Plagiy just kill his midiclorens. Then no more Sion?

 

I think Traya has meet her match.

[Lord-Aleph]

I might have said Plagueis if not for Traya having Sion with her. In that case, I think Sion would probably overcome Maul considering Maul wouldn't really be the type to "erode his will". If not for Sion, I don't think Traya would be winning, but in this scenario, yeah.

[Beniboybling]

Points to consider in Traya's favor:

 

Traya is a master of shatterpoints, which gives her a distinctive advantage against Plagueis. If she can distract him long enough with a telekinetic light show, she can search out his weakness and strike a killing blow.

 

Even if Plagueis reaches Malachor, the Scimitar will crash land, leaving Plageuis vulnerable to storm beasts, traps, toxic fumes and suprise attacks. Traya let the Exile reach the Academy, and even she struggled to do so.

 

If Maul is killed before Plagueis gets to Malachor, how will Plagueis defeat Traya and Sion and her academy?

 

Midichlorians maniplulation is a defence not offensive move. It can only kill Traya if she is completely incapacitated and unable to resist in anyway AKA dead. It is not like revive companion in SWTOR. If say Maul is wounded with a little uninterrupted time he can will his midichlorians to heal him. But it takes time and useless if Maul is dismembered.

 

Plagueis' base of operations is Sojourn not Coruscant. Which makes him vulnerable to orbital bombardment. However Plagueis does have the Scimitar but can he escape in time with no precog? (He managed to escape bombardment once, but only because he was warned beforehand) And assassins could easily hold him there, or Sion. Or they could sabotage his ship to explode or simply disable it.

 

Plagueis once was almost killed (he would have died if not rescued) by a group of about a dozen non Force sensitives. Traya has hundreds of deadlier Force sensitives. May I also note that when Traya was confronted by a similar amount, she killed them all without raising a fingure

 

Traya has remarkable abilities in precognition, especially at Malachor where she can see far into the future. Surprise attacks are out of the question.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Makoto_Shishio]

Points to consider in Traya's favor:

 

Traya is a master of shatterpoints, which gives her a distinctive advantage against Plagueis. If she can distract him long enough with a telekinetic light show, she can search out his weakness and strike a killing blow.

Whats to stop Plagueis from doing the same?

 

 

 

Plagueis once was almost killed (he would have died if not rescued) by a group of about a dozen non Force sensitives.

You mean by 50 assassins stated to have been skilled and dangerous enough to kill jedi? He atomized a dozen of them with a single force wave,a feat no other force user has demonstrated in the mythos.

 

Traya has hundreds of deadlier Force sensitives. May I also note that when Traya was confronted by a similar amount, she killed them all without raising a fingure

You mean when she was greatly empowered on a dark side nexus?

Traya has remarkable abilities in precognition, especially at Malachor where she can see far into the future. Surprise attacks are out of the question.

Plagueis has still demonstrated far more dangerous combat abilities than traya has. Its not hard to think that his speed and command of the force can overwhelm her.

 

Fact is, there's no way Traya would beat him on a 1v1 fight considering that its hinted that had Sidious actually confronted Plagueis in a direct confrontation with sabers and displays of force powers, he would have been slaughtered and undermined.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Makoto_Shishio