Kaggath Heats: Traya vs Plagueis

[Beniboybling]

“No game of dejarik can be won without pawns...”

 

Round 5: Darth Traya vs Darth Plagueis

 

Welcome to the fifth heat of the ‘Kaggath Tournament’. A competition pitting the power bases of the iconic Star Wars characters seen in the ‘Kaggath vs Series’ against each other in an epic tournament-style extravaganza.

 

The last battle, Darth Malgus vs Prince Xizor, was the closest battle yet. But ultimately the fearsome juggernaut was dealt a underhanded blow by the patient and calculating Xizor, like taking out the legs of a charging gundark, for to contend with Xizor, is to lose. But onto round five.

 

For all those of you aren’t aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simple lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

 

Before we begin, let’s go over the ground rules again:

 

 

• The arena: the known galaxy.
  
• No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or other prominent powers apart from those listed below. This excludes allies of the era, i.e. Darth Nihilus, Darth Sidious.
  
• No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  
• Both combatants are aware of the others identity and appearance.
  
• No surrender, fight to the death!
  
• No superweapons, e.g. the Mass Shadow Generator, Darth Nihilus & Sidious.
  
• Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.
  
• Use your imagination: obviously these powers existed in a different time frame but let’s just pretend.
  

 

Permitted Allies:

 

Darth Traya: Darth Sion

 

Darth Plagueis: Darth Maul

 

So, the combatants: Both Dark Lords where master manipulators and highly knowledgeable in the ways of the Force and highly skilled with a lightsaber and in the Force. Traya had a powerful ability to perceive shatterpoints and see the future, and Plagueis could manipulate life itself.

 

Traya has the forces of Darth Revan’s remnant Empire, including a legion of deadly assassins. While Plagueis had the accumulated power of the Order of the Sith Lords at the height of its influence. As Hego Damask he controlled the wealth and resources of Damask Holdings, and as a Dark Lord he commanded his own Sith cult – the Sun Guard. But when two of the galaxies greatest Sith Lords clash, who will be victorious? Who will win?

 

Let the Kaggath begin!

Edited January 11, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

NOTE: As in the previous Kaggath containing Traya there was a lot of disagreement regarding the removal of Darth Traya's fleet flagship, the Ravager, from her powerbase. Due to the fact that technically omitted ally Nihilus was needed to keep it together, I will allow the ship back into the debate.

 

In-galaxy reason: After Nihilus was booted as one of Traya's allies she could finally get round to fixing the damn thing, which she'd previously be unable to do because Nihilus liked the 'authentic' ghost ship look.

[Aurbere]

IMPORTANT ANNOUCEMENT: THIS DEBATE IS CLOSED

 

Victor: Prince Xizor

 

Darth Malgus: 30

 

Prince Xizor: 33

 

May I turn your attention to Round 5: Darth Traya vs Darth Plagueis of the Kaggath Heats.

 

Thanks for debating! That is all.

 

Malgus actually did pretty good in this one. Good to see it wasn't a complete blow-out, but onto the next!

 

I gotta give this one to Traya. I think Plagueis will suffer the same fate to Traya's assassins as he did to G0-T0's.

 

OH and Sion beats Maul. Can't die and all that.

[MasterMe]

Sweet! I'm glad to see Xizor won the last one (although I'm a big fan of Malgus.)

 

 

btw guys... I'm 4 for 4 on this Kaggath tournement so far. I called all the victories. Just thought I'd throw that out there...

[MasterMe]

I'm calling it: there's gonna be a LOT of scenarios and speculation in this one.

 

I picked Traya to win, but this one will be very interesting. Seriously, either of them COULD win this. It's only a matter of who is more likely. Excellent match up Beni!

 

I feel that Plagueis just doesn't have any legit tools for victory here. He perhaps has the advantage when it comes to assassination and secrecy, but I am a firm believer that one's powerbase is the most important thing here, and Traya easily has the best powerbase.

 

Once again, I feel that Traya will end up staying on Malachor. Plagueis will infiltrate (whereas Revan blockaded the place - Plagueis can't do that so he'll sneak in). Even though Plagueis won't be effected by Malachor like Revan was (due to Revan being light-sided), he does not have the tools to beat Traya and her academy. Plagueis and Maul are both very powerful, but the following equation is true:

Traya + Trayus academy > Plagueis + Maul.

 

Not only that, but Traya has all the advantages of fleet, army, and resources. Yes, Plagueis is a pretty sneaky and powerful guy, but I don't think he can beat Traya here. Traya for the win.

[Canino]

The only way I see Plagueis winning, is if Maul kills Traya. I just don't see that happening though. Maul is powerful, but not powerful enough. Also, I doubt Traya will ever be alone. She would always have some form of defense, being an assassin or even Sion. If Maul attacks, the assassin waits until the perfect time, then strikes. Traya can hold her own until then.

 

Dang, I'm upset about the last one. But, oh well. I was trying to help out G0-T0. I have to work on a new Xizor vs. G0-T0 scenario now.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ya know Beni it has occured to me that, if it weren't for the fact that there was already non-force users vs force user battles. You could have 2 Kaggath Tournys. 1 for non-force user vs non-force user and another with force user vs force user.

 

But question....you say Plagueis has the Order of the Sith Lords at its full height. But when is this specifically? Are we also including the members inside of it? Cause if so...then Plagueis pretty much wins this having Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader and all them. Or are we just going with the Order, when Plagueis was alive? (I know the rules say no outside involvment and the like...but those guys were apart of the Order.)

Edited January 7, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Segastorm]

Just a few points here....

 

1. Traya wins, she can just send out hordes of assassins and Sion (remember the Harbinger) until they're dead. Even if Plegius and Maul (somehow) get to malachor, they still have hordes of storm beasts and armies of sith...., which would undoubtedly, at worst, wear them down, and it would very likley be enough for Traya to finish them off.

 

2. Really, I find it just wrong that you people are voting Malgus for the last one just because it would help GO-TO out...

3. Traya wins

 

Edit: good question wolf....I assumed Plaegius and Maul is all they had.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Segastorm

[Aurbere]

The thing about this battle is that there will be no grand battle. Due to Plagueis' lack of precognitive abilities, Traya's assassins can easily move in and do what they do best. Maul is the only real obstacle in her path, an obstacle that can be toppled by Sion or the students of the Trayus Academy. Maul may be skilled, but Sion will just keep coming at him until the Zabrak warrior has fallen.

 

The only way Plagueis can win is by going to Malachor. Even then it's a long shot as he will be facing the entire Academy and the assassins. His lack of precognitive abilities will be his downfall.

 

Traya gets a resounding victory over the master of life.

[Canino]

2. Really, I find it just wrong that you people are voting Malgus for the last one just because it would help GO-TO out...

 

Alright, I might as well break down my thoughts. First, I was the only one who felt that way. So no people, it was Canino. Next, I originally picked Malgus, as I thought he had a better chance to win than Xizor. Xizor is powerful, but I picked Malgus. After researching him, I had reason to believe that G0-T0 would have an easy time to beat him using my strategy. Now, this only strengthened my motivation to make Malgus win. I guess that makes more since than before.

 

Carry on. Any questions?

[Beniboybling]

Ya know Beni it has occured to me that, if it weren't for the fact that there was already non-force users vs force user battles. You could have 2 Kaggath Tournys. 1 for non-force user vs non-force user and another with force user vs force user.

 

But question....you say Plagueis has the Order of the Sith Lords at its full height. But when is this specifically? Are we also including the members inside of it? Cause if so...then Plagueis pretty much wins this having Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader and all them. Or are we just going with the Order, when Plagueis was alive? (I know the rules say no outside involvment and the like...but those guys were apart of the Order.)

No just Plagueis, Maul and his powerbase. Not after and before Plagueis was alive. That would kinda be unfair

 

And interesting idea but we do only have 3 non-force users...

 

EDIT: Hey if anyone wants to play tactics, thats fine. If anything its in the spirit of the Kaggath. And it doesn't really matter anyway, as long as their points are valid, it makes no difference.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Dhamploc]

Do midi-chlorians count as a viable attack vector for Plagueis?

 

(Or are they considered external influences?)

Edited January 7, 2013 by Dhamploc

[Canino]

No just Plagueis, Maul and his powerbase. Not after and before Plagueis was alive. That would kinda be unfair

 

And interesting idea but we do only have 3 non-force users...

 

EDIT: Hey if anyone wants to play tactics, thats fine. If anything its in the spirit of the Kaggath. And it doesn't really matter anyway, as long as their points are valid, it makes no difference.

 

Thank you Beni. I like these threads, so I get into the spirit. Sue me (not really).

[Wolfninjajedi]

No just Plagueis, Maul and his powerbase. Not after and before Plagueis was alive. That would kinda be unfair

 

And interesting idea but we do only have 3 non-force users...

 

EDIT: Hey if anyone wants to play tactics, thats fine. If anything its in the spirit of the Kaggath. And it doesn't really matter anyway, as long as their points are valid, it makes no difference.

 

Could always add more non-force users, theres plenty out there.

[Beniboybling]

Do midi-chlorians count as a viable attack vector for Plagueis?

 

(Or are they considered external influences?)

Just a thought I had earlier. But if Plagueis faced Sion in a fight, he could use midichlorian manipulation to force him to die.

 

And yes Wolf there are others, but at least for this Tournament it was for combatants from the old series. We might be seeing this in the Bonus series though... but anyway IMO at least in the Kaggath Tournament non-Force users are perfectly capable of beating force users - they haven't lost a fight yet.

[Aurbere]

Just a thought I had earlier. But if Plagueis faced Sion in a fight, he could use midichlorian manipulation to force him to die.

 

And yes Wolf there are others, but at least for this Tournament it was for combatants from the old series. We might be seeing this in the Bonus series though... but anyway IMO at least in the Kaggath Tournament non-Force users are perfectly capable of beating force users - they haven't lost a fight yet.

 

For now...

 

Anyway, I'm going to keep saying it: I want Jan Dodonna!

 

And Admiral Ackbar

[Dhamploc]

Just a thought I had earlier. But if Plagueis faced Sion in a fight, he could use midichlorian manipulation to force him to die.

 

Is this Force or No-Force Traya? And how exactly was she seperated from the Force (i.e. if she's been seperated, did the process somehow restrict midichlorian manipulation)?

 

It's an interesting pairing this one.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Dhamploc

[Aurbere]

Is this Force or No-Force Traya? And how exactly was she seperated from the Force?

 

It's an interesting pairing this one.

 

Obviously 'Force Traya'

 

And to your other question: Her connection was severed by Darth Nihilus when he and Sion rebelled (love that KOTOR 2 cutscene btw).

[Segastorm]

Is this Force or No-Force Traya? And how exactly was she seperated from the Force (i.e. if she's been seperated, did the process somehow restrict midichlorian manipulation)?

 

It's an interesting pairing this one.

 

She was severed by Nihilus

 

And a question for beni, how does darth sidious count as a superpweapon.....

[Aurbere]

She was severed by Nihilus

 

And a question for beni, how does darth sidious count as a superpweapon.....

 

Given that he can destroy fleets with his Force Storms, yeah.

 

But that was reborn Sidious of course.

[Dhamploc]

Obviously 'Force Traya'

 

And to your other question: Her connection was severed by Darth Nihilus when he and Sion rebelled (love that KOTOR 2 cutscene btw).

 

Then advantage Plagueis.

 

I don't mean who did it, but physically *how*. If it somehow affected her midichlorians, then she would have a *massive* advantage, because Plagueis' major advantage, midi-chlorian manipulation would be gone.

[Beniboybling]

Is this Force or No-Force Traya? And how exactly was she seperated from the Force (i.e. if she's been seperated, did the process somehow restrict midichlorian manipulation)?

 

It's an interesting pairing this one.

As she is at the height of her power, this is Force Traya. And no, the process did not involve midichlorian manipulation to the best of my knowledge.

[Aurbere]

Then advantage Plagueis.

 

I don't mean who did it, but physically *how*. If it somehow affected her midichlorians, then she would have a *massive* advantage, because Plagueis' major advantage, midi-chlorian manipulation would be gone.

 

It's an ability called Sever Force.

 

You can check it out here:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=560035

 

And besides, it won't come down to a one on one duel. Traya can kill Plagueis way before something like that could even occur.

 

Edit: Sever Force does not involve midichlorian manipulation. It blocks a users connection to The Force.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Aurbere

[Beniboybling]

Then advantage Plagueis.

 

I don't mean who did it, but physically *how*. If it somehow affected her midichlorians, then she would have a *massive* advantage, because Plagueis' major advantage, midi-chlorian manipulation would be gone.

Forgive me, but I fail to see your point

[Dhamploc]

It's an ability called Sever Force.

 

You can check it out here:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=560035

 

And besides, it won't come down to a one on one duel. Traya can kill Plagueis way before something like that could even occur.

 

Edit: Sever Force does not involve midichlorian manipulation. It blocks a users connection to The Force.

 

 

But manipulation of midichlorians doesn't neccessarily require close proximity.

 

Plagueis and Sidious kicked off Anakin's conception over a decade in advance on another planet.

He wouldn't be able to yoyo her life back and forth like Darth Venamis, but he wouldn't need to.