A redesign of the fleet.

[Soul_of_Flames]

The current design of the fleet is not bad. It functions very well, in all honesty. The problem, however, is player flow and buildup. Too many players, simply doing menial tasks, are herded into condensed areas in order to carry out their errands. This causes a very large and very unnecessary amount of lag, or to be more precise, frame rate drops. This is why I believe that the fleet needs a bit of a redesign.

 

First, however, let me stress that adding more fleet instances will not fix this issue. This is because the issue isn't caused by too many people on the fleet, but instead, too many people built up in one spot. There can be 40 people in a fleet instance, but if they are all standing in the same spot it will cause a drop in the frame rate. So what can be done?

 

What needs done is the addition of new ships in the fleet that act as secondary and tertiary locations for various services. For example, another ship with GTN access will lower the player buildup around the GTN on a fleet's main station. This will allow fleet instances with even 200+ people to perform better since the amount of players focused in one location will have heavily diminished.

 

For each faction, there should be 3 new ships added to the fleet. And, on the main station, there should be a removal of class starship hangars. These hangars should be moved to these 3 new ships, which would be designed around the use of specific classes. The new ships should be added as follows:

 

Republic:

-Ship for the Jedi Order (used by Jedi Knights and Consulars).

-Ship for the Republic Military (used primarily by Troopers).

-Ship used primarily by Smugglers. Maybe like some sort of lounge/cantina/civilian ship

Imperial:

-Ship for Sith (used by Warriors and Inquisitors)

-Ship for Mandalorians (used by Bounty Hunters)

-Ship for Imperial Intelligence (used for Agents)

 

Each of these new ships would have:

-GTN access

-Player cargo bay access (NOT guild bank)

-Mail box access

-Medical Droid vendor

-Class hangar access

-Class trainer access (Specific to each ship)

-Consoles for all PvP and PvE dailies/weeklies. (Consoles will be clones of the ones on the main stations and gear vendors will still only be available on the main station).

-Interfleet transport hangars.

 

These new ships also wouldn't even need to be very large. They can even just be frigate sized. All they need space for is a hangar (or 2), a GTN terminal, a class trainer NPC, medical droid NPC, mail box, PvP/PvE consoles, and a small hangar used for interfleet transport. With the inclusion of elbow room for player movement, that does not equate to much required space.

 

The main stations will still have everything they currently have, minus hangar access. The reason for this is so that when players travel to the fleet, they start on their class' ships where they can take care of basic needs without being herded into areas of popular interest. However, if the player's needs require more specificity or social gains, they would travel to the main station where they would buy their PVP/PVE gear, buy ship upgrades, use the guild banks, manage guild functions, talk with skill trainers, group for flashpoint/operation content, etc.

 

Main stations would still retain access to the GTN and class trainers. And these new ships would not be locked specifically to the classes their are aimed at (any player of any class can visit them).

 

Doing this insures that main stations still receive the majority of the population in a fleet instance, but at the same time, reduces the amount of people crowded in single areas (such as the GTN console). This will therefore increase performance on the fleet since these large mobs of players will be more spread out over the large spacial area that is the fleet.

[Skeaser]

Options > Visible Character Limit. Lower this is you're having FPS problems. I'd really rather keep an area that makes it feel like I'm playing with tons of people instead of making everything empty just so low end hardware doesn't suffer. Edited January 3, 2013 by Skeaser

[_Darkstar]

Having other things in a less convenient place will result in the less convenient place being empty and a waste of development.

 

They need an interface that can be brought up anytime to do anything you want, and then send a companion off to do whatever it is, but it will take a few minutes depending on the task. And have an interface on your ship to do it all instantly.

 

FK the fleet.

[spectreclees]

My redesign: Destroy the fleet and have us hang out on planets.

 

Make cross galaxy trade chat.

[Savarin]

I like these ideas, OP. Especially having a separate ship for Imperial Intelligence. Us Agents are just too cool to chill with everyone else

[AlexDougherty]

Splitting the characters by class would reduce the feel of the game, and make it harder to build teams for flashpoints. However I would Like them to add a third fleet, one were players from both sides could meet, admittedly there would be the expected stupity at first, but it would allow dark side republic players to join sith dark side guilds, and light side Imperials join Republic Light side guilds, which could help.

[Stradlin]

OP your suggestions look perfectly fine to me. However, you forget you are playing a skelton crew -ran MMO where you have to pay RL cash for content patces, Xmas trees and re-skins of old armor. You will NEVER see something as significant as complete overhaul of the Fleet.

 

When it comes to immersion and credibility, BW did great job with Fleet. Inter fleet transports and those capital ships hovering about are awesome. Concept of moving to raid instances by travelling there via strike cruisers or whatnot is awesome. Mostly, main hub looks approx. as you would expect for a space station in StaWa universe to look. There is tons of functionality going. Fleet is an environment you can believe in, if that makes sense.

 

Everything else about the fleet sucks though.

 

Traditionally, Bioware has always sucked with zone/level design. There is no place where BW's lack of imagination and enthuasism in zone design is more apparent than fleet's main hub. - Everything - there is incredibly boring and sterile. Circular design combined with Pripyatian levels of sterility ensures most players will never get very good sense of their bearings without using map. It all looks the same. It all looks boring. Not once you get impression anyone involved in zone design in TOR would have had one second of fun while doing their job.

 

As a bonus, some colorblind troll of a graphics designer chose to make various hues of yellow and orange dominant colors in Pubbie fleet. What the ****** hell. This alone must have cost TOR like 25k subs. No joke.

List of people who like to see significant amounts of yellow present in arcitecture of anything:

End of list

 

Go to your mom. Ask her to play some games with you. Install TOR and WoW to her laptop. Have her run around in Undercity for 15 mins. Then have her run around in Fleet for 15 mins. Ask her to write down a list of stuff she saw. < - - - According to my theory, this experiment would tell you all you need to know about root problems in BWs zone deisgn.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Stradlin

[BlueArab]

How about this for an idea; delete the fleets entirely and make the grouping areas on the capital planets. Then add a small zone where the opposite faction can land that is heavily defended, and now you can raid capital planets as well.

[ObiJuanShenobi]

I find it odd that the Pub and Imp fleets at identical to each other in design. As 2 seperate entities, it doesn't make sense.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I don't like the suggestions here at all. I agree the fleets not great, but splitting people up more is NOT the answer. I wish that with the new expansion they'd make cities on the new planet that have everything the fleet has (including the OP portals) and force that to be the new fleet. The reason for this is:

1. It could be much bigger than the current fleet.

2. Being on a planet you could do some much more aesthetic visuals

3. Being on a level 50-55 PvP planet you could have city raids.

 

Number 3 is the big one for me. Open world PvP is seriously lacking and having at least 1 raidable city would help that tremendously IMO.

[MaximusRex]

Rather then do more work on the fleet, I'd rather see them upgrade the capital planets to act as better hubs.

[Tsillah]

The problem for me is that the areas are separated too much. Instead of one area with GTN access and one area for crafting etc, they should combine these and give each area a bit of everything.

 

Each area should have guild bank and personal bank access, as well as GTN access for example. Then people don't all need to be in the same spot.

 

You can just feel the frame rates drop when you get near to the GTN.

 

Perhaps it could work to have an area for each base class. A Sith Warrior area with the class skill vendors, GTN, Guild bank, personal bank. Each with a small cantina area and more general stuff like crew skill traders, fleet comm vendors etc dead smack in the middle where the current cantina is.

 

That would work better for me really.

[Stradlin]

How about this for an idea; delete the fleets entirely and make the grouping areas on the capital planets. Then add a small zone where the opposite faction can land that is heavily defended, and now you can raid capital planets as well.

 

You are actually asking them to delete content?

 

Hero engine, crowded planet-based racial capital and a full pvp raid. I'm pretty sure this would physically, literally destroy the server farm.

 

Fleet is a cool idea and it is much more fun and rational to arse about in Fleet than it would be to do so in Dromund Kaas or Coruscant.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Stradlin

[aeterno]

I disagree with splitting up the community just for the sake of fps going from 30s to 60s.

 

I do agree however that faction hubs desperately need moving/redesign to give them a bit more character and soul. They're such an obvious last minute tack on just before launch when capital planets were found lacking... depressing. Add a new instanced area/zone to Coruscant/DK with all the convenience but some frigging soul.

[andreas_barth]

How about this for an idea; delete the fleets entirely and make the grouping areas on the capital planets. Then add a small zone where the opposite faction can land that is heavily defended, and now you can raid capital planets as well.

 

This this this this!

[DigitalDreamz]

Options > Visible Character Limit. Lower this is you're having FPS problems. I'd really rather keep an area that makes it feel like I'm playing with tons of people instead of making everything empty just so low end hardware doesn't suffer.

 

Here's my question:

 

*preface: I realize the more characters you have the more resources it takes to draw*

 

Why in this game when I'm around five to ten people my system FPS just DROPS horribly? Yet in every other MMO the drop has been very very little to almost none. In WoW I don't get ANY drop unless there are at least forty or fifty people. Here ten people and it's half of what it would be with fifty people in WoW.

[DigitalDreamz]

Oh and yes get rid of the fleet. It creates a perception that the game has shrunk to the size of the fleet. Edited January 3, 2013 by DigitalDreamz

[Capt_Beers]

There is a ship where I can access my bank, mail and GTN and not suffer any frame rate drops. It's called the BT-7 Thunderclap.

[Quraswren]

Options > Visible Character Limit. Lower this is you're having FPS problems. I'd really rather keep an area that makes it feel like I'm playing with tons of people instead of making everything empty just so low end hardware doesn't suffer.

 

This ^

 

I do not agree with the OP. Seems a waste. Keep people together, the fleet is built very well and works. There will always be a buildup at certain areas, bank access and GTN areas and to some minor extent PVP gear and PVE gear areas.

 

If your Pc is having trouble do the above. It works wonders. Splitting up the people on the fleet more is not good.

[Arkerus]

Oh and yes get rid of the fleet. It creates a perception that the game has shrunk to the size of the fleet.

 

I don't have that perception at all because anyone that levels to 50 knows the leveling game isn't on the fleet. The fleet also makes a great central jumping to....everything

[Kubernetic]

The fleets just need transport shuttles back to Nar Shaddaa, since the Promenade there already features shuttles to each respective fleet.

 

On the Nar Shaddaa promenade you've got GTN access, cargo hold access, trainers, crew skill vendors, and all in a sanctuary zone where Imperials and Republics can mix and mingle. Only thing that would need to be added I think are the guild bank access nodes, but that's a quick add next toe each cargo terminal.

 

A Nar Shaddaa Pass like the Fleet Pass would also be nice, freely obtained like the Fleet pass, with a 12-16 hour cooldown or whatever.

 

Would be very cool, IMHO.

[SithVeritas]

My redesign: Destroy the fleet and have us hang out on planets.

 

I support this.

[Soul_of_Flames]

I think people are misunderstanding my original post.

 

Let me clarify: I'm not suggesting splitting up the classes into their own areas on the fleet, however I can see why people would draw that conclusion.

 

No. What I intended was merely starting each class in separate areas when the load into the fleet. And then laying out basic services where they are convenient to access.

 

This is no way will take away from social interaction on the fleet or some how lower the amount of people visibly seen on the fleet at any given time. What it will do is lower the amount of people built up in one single area.

 

Also, lowering visible characters is not a good solution. That's a lazy work around for poor map design. Every other area in the game works just fine except for spots like the GTN or PVP/PVE consoles on the fleet. And that's only because the game is attempting to render 50-60 people all in one spot at one time. Lowering the amount of visible characters would work, however it would only be of use in these areas... and the rest of the galaxy (which does not suffer from these issues) would be bogged down because of this setting.

 

Getting back to the point at hand, the main station on the fleet would still be the center of attention of the fleet itself and would not, from what I can understand, suffer from any population reductions. There would still be a large need to use the main stations on the fleets and that will cause everyone to continue to inhabit them. The only people who would load the fleet and not travel to the main station are people who don't have GTN access on their ship and want quick access to it.. or they want quick access to pick up/turn in a daily or weekly mission.

 

Because main stations would still have the majority of uses in the fleet, it will draw the majority of players to the station. This means that the population on a main station, for the most part, would not decrease in density except for in areas of popular interest (which would be spread out between the new ships and the current crowded areas on the fleet.)

 

For example: Lets say that in a fleet instance of 250 people, 100-125 people are using the GTN consoles. However, there are still 125-150 other people elsewhere spread across the station. With the inclusion of new ships in the fleet, the 100-125 people using the GTN would be divided into 4, and 3 of which new locations would be mainly accessed by specific classes. That would lower the amount of people accessing the GTN on a fleet's main station to about 15-30 people (and similar numbers spread across all the other GTN consoles). However, the remaining 125-150 people spread across the main station would still be there. There would still be people lingering in the cantina, there would still be people using the guild banks, using trainers, trading items, buying gear, and there would still be people just randomly loitering around looking for something to do.

 

 

Now the reason why I suggest aiming the new ships to different classes is because if you just add new GTN terminals into the fleet, that won't solve anything. I don't know if anyone else has ever noticed, but of the 2 GTN consoles currently on the fleet, One always seems to have more people than the other. If a new console was added onto another ship, it wouldn't be used much because it's out of the way and inconvenient to access. That's why if the starting locations for players was moved to the new GTN consoles, then they would be more likely to use those. But the reason why the GTN consoles on the main fleet would also still remain used is because the main fleet would still have other value to people and instead of using a transport to go back and forth to a ship just to use the GTN, players will flock to the consoles that are closest to them.

 

Also, as a final point, if something like this is done then it will lower player density in popular areas and thus improve performance. This will allow fleet instances to be larger as a result. thus allowing more people to use one instance without the performance loss.

[Altyrell]

For those that are asking for the destruction of the Fleet, if they got rid of the Fleet, then where will the Guild Capital Ships go? Cause I'd imagine that when they add in the GCS's, that they would add a 4th Ship to the (respective) Fleets that would serve as the Guild Capital Ships that would allow Guilds to travel to them, each possibly instanced for the Guilds or something.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I think maybe rather than having secondary locations for stuff it might be better to add additional levels to the fleet. More or less replicate the external ring of the Fleet main area (just wall off the Cantina section) and make all the areas hubs for whatever that floor is for. For example a GTN exclusive floor, a PvP gear exclusive floor, Crew Skill exclusive floor etc. That way there's be so many hubs you wouldn't have lag of people all clustered around a scarce few terminals and each floor would have decreased player traffic that might also help lessen lag.

 

Since I've read posts by people who don't like having to use their ship to travel from planet to planet I'd guess adding secondary locations for Fleet functions would go unused unless someone really wanted to spend a lot of time on the GTN. Most I think would find putting up with the lag to use the GTN for 5-10 minutes preferable to spending an additional minute or 2 going to an alternate location to use the exact same service.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Gavin_Kelvar