Smash is not OP

[Rincewend]

I asked my friend marauder with min/max pvp gear test his smash on me.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1830/screenshot2013010312435.jpg

3875 damage and i dont have any defensive cooldown up. So post some proof about dat 7k hits, bcos it really hard to believe

 

posted in many threads, there have even been bragging threads from maras doing the smashing, adding another picture will prove nothing that has not already been proved and why the DEV's said they are watching it (just like the bubble what ever that means likely that bubble will get nerfed and smash will get buffed).

[HeIIbat]

posted in many threads, there have even been bragging threads from maras doing the smashing, adding another picture will prove nothing that has not already been proved and why the DEV's said they are watching it (just like the bubble what ever that means likely that bubble will get nerfed and smash will get buffed).

So smashed someone recruit geared for 7k ? In proper gear its impossible

[Eldriq]

It's been posted we are not beholden to you to look through the threads and find it. Quit frankly I could care less if you believe it or not and will spend no time trying to prove it to you.

[Exilim]

I asked my friend marauder with min/max pvp gear test his smash on me.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1830/screenshot2013010312435.jpg

3875 damage and i dont have any defensive cooldown up. So post some proof about dat 7k hits, bcos it really hard to believe

 

You can just pay attention to the highest hits at the end of warzones. A lot smash spec players I see are 6k and up.

 

3875 is like a zero stacks crit

[Darth-Rammstein]

You can just pay attention to the highest hits at the end of warzones. A lot smash spec players I see are 6k and up.

 

3875 is like a zero stacks crit

 

durrr, guess who they hit for 6k and up? recruit geared players, pve geared players ect. I'm tired of whiners on here claiming that in full wh they get hit for 8k and numbers like that ...complete bs.

[Rincewend]

So smashed someone recruit geared for 7k ? In proper gear its impossible

 

You tested with a jug and you think it is the same for all classes? If that is the case than why have heavy, med, or light armor? Just because your one test on your one toon type did not produce what all the other threads have posted have does not make it imposible. If you want proof go look at the other threads, go watch the videos from the bragging smash specs you can seen the hits very well. As a 50 sorc now almost completely in EWH I can say it happens all the time and the so-called step up from WH to EWH did not minimize the hit much.

[HeIIbat]

You tested with a jug and you think it is the same for all classes? If that is the case than why have heavy, med, or light armor? Just because your one test on your one toon type did not produce what all the other threads have posted have does not make it imposible. If you want proof go look at the other threads, go watch the videos from the bragging smash specs you can seen the hits very well. As a 50 sorc now almost completely in EWH I can say it happens all the time and the so-called step up from WH to EWH did not minimize the hit much.

Light armor give you about 20-25% kinetic reduction, heavy like 40-42%. Its not like 3875 gonna be 7000

[Exilim]

durrr, guess who they hit for 6k and up? recruit geared players, pve geared players ect. I'm tired of whiners on here claiming that in full wh they get hit for 8k and numbers like that ...complete bs.

 

They hit light armored sages, medium armor scoundrels for 6k and up. They only thing that is complete BS is the ease and consistency in which they can do so. They don't even have to actively apply an armor debuff, it comes passive.

[jizerai]

Light armor give you about 20-25% kinetic reduction, heavy like 40-42%. Its not like 3875 gonna be 7000

 

Actually, that depends on if you're in a Tank stance or not. You'll be at around 30% in Heavy Armor. Regardless, your screenshot is basically as much worth as others showing as high as 7,5k crits (usually around 5-6k though), so I fail to see why it should be found to be more "truthful".

 

First of all. Were both of you in at least War Hero equivalent gear (I'm pretty sure Expertise still plays, even in duals)? Did he have 4 stacks of Shockwave? Because I can guarantee you that if that's how high it hit for NOBODY would be complaining, or even running that spec for that matter, because it would be awful.

[HeIIbat]

Actually, that depends on if you're in a Tank stance or not. You'll be at around 30% in Heavy Armor. Regardless, your screenshot is basically as much worth as others showing as high as 7,5k crits (usually around 5-6k though), so I fail to see why it should be found to be more "truthful".

 

First of all. Were both of you in at least War Hero equivalent gear (I'm pretty sure Expertise still plays, even in duals)? Did he have 4 stacks of Shockwave? Because I can guarantee you that if that's how high it hit for NOBODY would be complaining, or even running that spec for that matter, because it would be awful.

Almost full EWH both, 4 stacks shockwave and every damage buff possible.

[United_Strafes]

Ahhhh, so not attacking is the secret!

[fungihoujo]

Light armor give you about 20-25% kinetic reduction, heavy like 40-42%. Its not like 3875 gonna be 7000

 

If you're going to provide a screenshot- show us your stats including mitigation (you're in tank form btw, no surprise you took so little damage... which ironically enough is still more damage than my full WH sorc can do with CL on even light armour).

 

Show us the stats of your opponent- how do we know you're not in full expertise gear and he's in pve gear? Exactly- we don't, making this pic useless... we don't even know if there's full stacks up or if this mara is a rage mara at all.

 

Even if we were to assume that this was a fully optimized (meaning- focus entirely on power/surge) marauder for the rage build, had full singularity stacks, and had all other necessary CDs active a mara would use when bursting a smash- and you only had 45% mitigation...

 

Oh, and perhaps 4% in deafening defense to further reduce the damage? It does seem like you have three stacks of pooled hatred after all- it is in that tree... so about 50% mitigation.

 

That nearly 4000 damage hit would have done about 8000 damage on a max expertise but zero armour character- meaning, against a sorc in full WH, such as myself, with 21% mitigation- I'd have taken about 6400 damage.

 

Now- add red buff from WZ, optimize the mara's gear, get lucky with the damage numbers- and rather than disputing what you wanted to, you actually just proved that getting 7k or more damage on a 1300 expertise character is very reasonable with a smash.

 

Please, continue.

[HeIIbat]

You can just pay attention to the highest hits at the end of warzones. A lot smash spec players I see are 6k and up.

 

3875 is like a zero stacks crit

3875 from really strong smasher, most monkeys hit me for 2k max

[HeIIbat]

If you're going to provide a screenshot- show us your stats including mitigation (you're in tank form btw, no surprise you took so little damage... which ironically enough is still more damage than my full WH sorc can do with CL on even light armour).

 

Show us the stats of your opponent- how do we know you're not in full expertise gear and he's in pve gear? Exactly- we don't, making this pic useless... we don't even know if there's full stacks up or if this mara is a rage mara at all.

 

Even if we were to assume that this was a fully optimized (meaning- focus entirely on power/surge) marauder for the rage build, had full singularity stacks, and had all other necessary CDs active a mara would use when bursting a smash- and you only had 45% mitigation...

 

Oh, and perhaps 4% in deafening defense to further reduce the damage? It does seem like you have three stacks of pooled hatred after all- it is in that tree... so about 50% mitigation.

 

That nearly 4000 damage hit would have done about 8000 damage on a max expertise but zero armour character- meaning, against a sorc in full WH, such as myself, with 21% mitigation- I'd have taken about 6400 damage.

 

Now- add red buff from WZ, optimize the mara's gear, get lucky with the damage numbers- and rather than disputing what you wanted to, you actually just proved that getting 7k or more damage on a 1300 expertise character is very reasonable with a smash.

 

Please, continue.

First, you partially right. Yes, i have 53% miltigation and if u have only 21 then 5775 hit possible (3875*0,79/0,53). But 7k not possible at all, and red buff from wz cant be counted bcos we talk about same buffed/equipped chars.

[jizerai]

3875 from really strong smasher, most monkeys hit me for 2k max

 

Your friend should respec then, because clearly his spec isn't viable. On a related note - my own Smash (with Recruit gear, mind you) hits just as hard as your friend does. Granted, that is on a Warzone Training Dummy, but as Expertise shouldn't factor into it (increase in damage is reduced by an equal amount) this seems irrelevant. Of course, I'm not certain what the Training Dummies have for Armor Rating. I suppose I'll take a more hard look at it once the server starts waking up again so I can do some "in game" testing.

[HeIIbat]

Your friend should respec then, because clearly his spec isn't viable. On a related note - my own Smash (with Recruit gear, mind you) hits just as hard as your friend does. Granted, that is on a Warzone Training Dummy, but as Expertise shouldn't factor into it (increase in damage is reduced by an equal amount) this seems irrelevant. Of course, I'm not certain what the Training Dummies have for Armor Rating. I suppose I'll take a more hard look at it once the server starts waking up again so I can do some "in game" testing.

You always welcome to show me your strongest smash, i doubt anyone in recruit can hit me for even 3k but you can proove me otherwise

[jizerai]

You always welcome to show me your strongest smash, i doubt anyone in recruit can hit me for even 3k but you can proove me otherwise

 

I assume you're in a Vengeance hybrid spec (something like 18/23/0). That gives you pretty much as good a damage reduction you're gonna get. But you're missing the point. As gear progresses, the damage goes up, not down. Simply because your spec doesn't take that much damage from Smash, doesn't mean that everyone does, or even that no other spec does.

 

If I can do 4k with it with just Recruit Gear, what do you suppose others can who's optimized their gear?

[Rincewend]

So if 7k is on recuit gear vs a fully BIS smash than what are the 10K plus hits landing on? people not in any gear?

[jizerai]

So if 7k is on recuit gear vs a fully BIS smash than what are the 10K plus hits landing on? people not in any gear?

 

I've never, ever, seen a 10k crit from a Smash. Ever. The highest number I've ever seen is 7.8k. But if you have some kind of proof, now is the time to show it. Otherwise, it doesn't really help the argument if you just spout numbers.

[TalkingDinosaur]

1v1 isn't that bad, BUT when a premade of 3 smashers come and start working together then my day is ruined. :c

[Rincewend]

I've never, ever, seen a 10k crit from a Smash. Ever. The highest number I've ever seen is 7.8k. But if you have some kind of proof, now is the time to show it. Otherwise, it doesn't really help the argument if you just spout numbers.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=572972

 

So what are hitting these people?

[jizerai]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=572972

 

So what are hitting these people?

 

I stand corrected. But perhaps I should clarify what I mean: I have not seen, from personal experience, that high amounts.

 

Edit: Also, from examining these screen shots a little bit closer, a few of them seem.. a bit weird. For example the 13k crit, where one player did 12k damage and died 18 times. I smell green leveling gear.

Edited January 4, 2013 by jizerai

[Darth-Rammstein]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=572972

 

So what are hitting these people?

 

Look at the first biggest hit on Po5 (linked below) and look at the bottom of the scoreboard on the opposing team. A jedi with 18 deaths that only did 12,363 damage and another guy with 14 deaths that only did 13,537 damage and only 45k heals...these guys were cannon fodder for that guy. I bet they had quest gear on or something. So this proves absolutely nothing except that smash only hits for large amounts on badly geared targets...

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/highcrit.png/

Edited January 4, 2013 by Darth-Rammstein

[LenrocNewDawn]

Setting here trying to articulate the point I want to make; so here goes.

 

I have a Jugg, Mara, Pt, Sorc, and an Operative all 50.

 

Jugg - Buffed Smash is OP

Mara - Rooted Ravage is OP

Sorc - Bubble Stun is OP

PT - Rapid Shots is OP

Operative - Stealth is OP

 

With these toons I can do well nearly any match I am in and am now convinced you all whine because you have nothing better to do, you know like... finding weaknesses / vulnerabilities / counters to any individual class. You would rather cry for a nerf than admit it may be YOU. I am convinced that a good player is capable of being a good player no matter what he rolls. Ive had this spec from launch. Back when everyone thought it was a weak 1 trick pony [Or is that still the case?].

 

In this spec I have soloed people 2 on 1,1 vs 1 and also lost 1 vs 1... The SINGLE common denominator is ALWAYS the players I am facing.

 

These are just some examples...

 

On my Jugg I will come after you and I will smash you.

On my Mara I will pop cloak and get close to you, Gore and Ravage.

On my Sorc I will Bubble, run up to you, pop my bubble on you and run away.

On my PT I will dot up your team, pull your ball carrier/healer into a fire-pit or acid and stun.

On my OP I will stab you when you are trying to heal or re-cloak and restun you to take your node after ive already made you use your cc breaker.

 

All classes (maybe not mercs) have an ability another class would love to have or call OP.

Count out 9 seconds... that is the FASTEST we can smash you again. How much damage can you do to us in 9 seconds? These people crying "He smashed me for 7k smash , smash, smash. im dead" Remember, It took him 27 seconds to get off 3 smashes MINIMUM. You had that long to also kill him. Or, "There were 2 smashers on me and all I could do is die!" If balance is anything, it is the fact that if 2 people are on you, you should die, or you are fighting baddies.

 

Fastest is about 8 seconds, if we are using absolutes let's, at least, make sure they are true. Not always possible but that's fastest and that is only 2 second longer then Obfuscate and 3 seconds then the Roar. Also you can smash 3 times in an 18 seconds window since we assume your smash is off cool down at the beginning of the fight and you'll open with that (meh, make that 21 if you don't have the fury). 2 good rage specced players can decimate and entire node defense in about 10 seconds. What makes Smash a bit out of whack is being an instant buffed auto-critting AOE. Make the shock-wave/singularity build on one target and all will be fine. Auto-critting should be left alone and should still be AOE wide.

 

 

My two cents .

 

P.S. If you have an argument to make, can you try not to attack and insult people you are trying to convince? It'll work much better I promise you.

Edited January 4, 2013 by LenrocNewDawn

[SammuelSK]

So this proves absolutely nothing except that smash only hits for large amounts on badly geared targets...

 

I'm full WH, pieces of WHE and I get smashed for 6k regularly. Just five minutes ago infact during the match I was in I got hit for 5975. Am I badly geared then in your opnion?

 

I've even eaten a 6k hit through my BH bubble which is supposed to reduce damage by 25%, so how hard would I have gotten hit if the shield hadn't been up? Is that working as intended in your opinion?

 

The "only hits hard on undergeared players" excuse is at best a myth, at worse a lie you are telling yourself and others to justify the existance of an broken ability.

Edited January 4, 2013 by SammuelSK