Sentinel and marauder balance

[Anosa]

High if not the highest Burst Damage

High Sustained damage

Great mobility

Best Survivability

Great combo of Ranged and Melee attacks

Possible stealth to exit combat

Possible healing

Possible speed boosts

Possible immunity to stuns

Easy to manage energy/force

Damage through most defenses

No real weakness

 

*by possible I mean you can have these things if you spec your character for it and some of their available may be limited. But still the option is there, where it is not for most classes. Most classes get 1 maybe 2 of those.

 

Supposed weaknesses that are not true

too many keys to press (you don't need to use them all)

limited to melee combat (with their ranged attacks/speed/jumps and the small size of the pvp maps that is not a real problem)

stun them to stop their big attacks (works against everyone)

 

good post

[dejavy]

My worry is that the Devs are seeing that the vast majority of the playerbase plays this class and will not balance them because of that.

 

The amount of other classes players is largerer and if BW doesn't react on the mara issue they risk to get more and more maras/sents rerollers who'll make swtor a single class game. This is sheerly unacceptable for any MMO. I lost my faith in BW designers when they kept nerfing mercs/mandos when they strongly required buffs. Still have no faith and wait another mara buff which ofcourse will be called a nerf.

[Anosa]

The amount of other classes players is largerer and if BW doesn't react on the mara issue they risk to get more and more maras/sents rerollers who'll make swtor a single class game. This is sheerly unacceptable for any MMO. I lost my faith in BW designers when they kept nerfing mercs/mandos when they strongly required buffs. Still have no faith and wait another mara buff which ofcourse will be called a nerf.

 

death from above at launch was one hitting some players lol

[Darth-Rammstein]

This is a nerf Operative thread in disguise isn't it?

[WaywardOne]

<< The amount of other classes players is largerer and if BW doesn't react on the mara issue they risk to get more and more maras/sents rerollers who'll make swtor a single class game. >>

 

On your server open a who window during off hours and do:

 

50 sentinel (or mara)

50 guardian

50 sage

50 shadow

etc..

 

Do that a few times over the course of a week and tell me which class is taking over the game by a wide majority? My checks tell me that on Jung Ma its Sages by a large percentage (with sentinels and shadows below guardians) and on POT5 it's a tossup between 3 classes (one of which is sentinel). JK/Warrior classes and combos are not "taking over".

 

Take a ss of every scoreboard and tally how many are in a given wz and count classes.

 

Based on the snapshots I've done your problem is bad perception on your part. But maybe your server's worse - if so you can always move or maybe leave if you can't handle playing in a game where jedi are a not unpopular class.

Edited January 6, 2013 by WaywardOne

[duelsaberman]

I feel like snipers have a lot of CDs as well. they get a very powerful knockback that roots for 5 sec, dodge shield, absorb shield, an aoe shield, legshot root, entrench, ambush knockback, debilitate, flashbang, an absorb buff when exiting cover, IMMUNITY TO INTERRUPTS, unable to get leapt to. thats a lot more than a mara/sent. also i saw someone commented on the fact that sent/mara ability to leap is a problem...that is their only ranged ability, without it they are pretty useless and they still have to be careful when to use it. on my sent alt i try to avoid opening with leap because i anticipate getting knocked back. Additionally if a sent/mara is solo guarding a node, they can easily get pulled off and have someone cap and they have nothing to really stop it except leap, unless the person capping is in cover, then its gone. thats just my 2 cents.

[Darth-Rammstein]

It's a double edged sword for me. On one hand I love playing my jugg again and dominating wzs but on the other any time I play one of my other toons they are subject to the smashes on the receiving end and it's not fun.

[NathanielStarr]

<< The amount of other classes players is largerer and if BW doesn't react on the mara issue they risk to get more and more maras/sents rerollers who'll make swtor a single class game. >>

 

On your server open a who window during off hours and do:

 

50 sentinel (or mara)

50 guardian

50 sage

50 shadow

etc..

 

Do that a few times over the course of a week and tell me which class is taking over the game by a wide majority? My checks tell me that on Jung Ma its Sages by a large percentage (with sentinels and shadows below guardians) and on POT5 it's a tossup between 3 classes (one of which is sentinel). JK/Warrior classes and combos are not "taking over".

 

Take a ss of every scoreboard and tally how many are in a given wz and count classes.

 

Based on the snapshots I've done your problem is bad perception on your part. But maybe your server's worse - if so you can always move or maybe leave if you can't handle playing in a game where jedi are a not unpopular class.

 

Why off hours? Why not prime time hours?

[ArchangelLBC]

High if not the highest Burst DamagePyro PTs are higher actually I think, especially since theirs requires no setup. Combat's Burst is redonk but is predictable and decently easy to shutdown. Even Smash requires a LITTLE windup.

 

High Sustained damageTrue

 

Great mobilityTrue

 

Best SurvivabilityArguable. Best Defensive Cooldown Package. Resilience is probably better, but it's on a tank class and doesn't come with 3 other additional amazing DCDs

 

Great combo of Ranged and Melee attacksThis I feel is very untrue. Really only two 10m attacks, one of which is an execute. Blade Storm isn't even that good outside of combat spec.

 

Possible stealth to exit combatYou can disengage but you don't exit combat so no running behind an obstacle and healing up when the coast is clear. Still I despise Force Camo except when I'm on my sent

 

Possible healingWhich was nerfed and is part of a spec no one plays anymore

 

Possible speed boostsIf you're talking about the transcendence buff, this is mutually exclusive with the above one. If you mean the one attached to Zealous Leap, I'll grant you that one, but it's kinda gimpy. If you mean the one attached to Force Camo, then it's on a spec no one plays anymore

 

Possible immunity to stunsWait what? Outside of full resolve bar I'm not sure what you're talking about. Did I miss something on the skill trees? I think you're thinking of unremitting/unstoppable, but that's a Jugg/Guardian skill, and full spec smashers can't get it, and Vengence/Vigilance is considered second tier

 

Easy to manage energy/forceGranted, but it does tend to backload some things for them, also a lot of other classes have an easy to manage resource system

 

Damage through most defensesAgain, depends on spec. Combat can completely ignore armor 30% of the time in theory, but actual uptime is much less. Watchman burns are internal, but they can be cleansed. Smash's only problem is the damn autocrit.

 

No real weaknessMelee is technically a weakness. Course in this game it's a weakness like range is an advantage, so it doesn't really count

 

*by possible I mean you can have these things if you spec your character for it and some of their available may be limited. But still the option is there, where it is not for most classes. Most classes get 1 maybe 2 of those.

 

Supposed weaknesses that are not true

too many keys to press (you don't need to use them all)

limited to melee combat (with their ranged attacks/speed/jumps and the small size of the pvp maps that is not a real problem)

stun them to stop their big attacks (works against everyone)For Combat/Carnage though this is true. They are most dangerous for those 3 GCDs where they have Precision Slash/Gore up. In those 3 GCDs they can absolutely demolish someone, but the PS > MS (Gore > Ravage) thing is indeed incredibly easy to counter and i you notice the sent/mara in question is in Ataru Form then you need to be ready for it so you can shut it down. You'll regret it if you don't, but they'll be frustrated to no end if you do. Especially if you do consistently. Watchman, as has been mentioned, can be quickly taken out of relevance with proper cleansing. Smash is the hard one to counter imo since you can mostly just slow them down

 

Comments in red.

 

My basic feeling is that other classes should be brought up to this level. Sent/Maras have great team utility, and while they are not always on favorable terms against every class, they usually have an answer for most anything. If anything is overtuned it's smash but this goes for both ACs with access to the spec. A somewhat similar class (though less of an offender in the general public's eye for various reasons) is Shadow/Assassin. Good damage, good survivability, has some great team utility and usually has an answer for most everything.

 

Honestly other classes should be brought up to the same level, rather than nerfing the classes that are actually nice and versatile. It's ridiculous that Sorc/Sage is really only viable because of a Hybrid Bubble spec, that DPS Operatives aren't welcome at all, and don't even get me started on the disaster that is merc/commando.

Edited January 6, 2013 by ArchangelLBC

[TonyDragonflame]

High if not the highest Burst Damage

High Sustained damage

Great mobility

Best Survivability

Great combo of Ranged and Melee attacks

Possible stealth to exit combat

Possible healing

Possible speed boosts

Possible immunity to stuns

Easy to manage energy/force

Damage through most defenses

No real weakness

 

 

Legendary 31/31/31 spec its so good bro

[AMKSED]

death from above at launch was one hitting some players lol

 

No it wasn't.

[Givemedanger]

Just remove the "god mode" ability. It's just wrong.

[venomlash]

My main is a Gunnery Commando (I know, weakest class in PvP) and Marauders are, of course, my biggest concern due purely to their gap-closing ability. I can ignore Obfuscate with my hard-hitting tech attacks, pop my Stealth Scan to stop them from getting away with Force Camouflage, and chew through Saber Ward's tech mitigation with Grav Round's armor debuff. But if I'm going to stay alive long enough to burn them down, I need to keep them off my butt.

 

I can snare enemies pretty nicely with Full Auto, but that's pretty useless against Marauders because they leap directly to me rather than run in. Where the other ranged classes can root an enemy at long range (Leg Shot for Gunslingers and Sever Force for Balance Sages) and/or root them after a knockback (Pulse Detonator for Gunslingers, Force Wave for Telekinetics Sages), I'm pretty much powerless against Rage specs. They Force Charge in, and as soon as I buy myself some room with Concussive Charge, I get hit with Obliterate.

[Ramtar]

Just remove the "god mode" ability. It's just wrong.

 

your correct Force Shroud needs to be nerfed.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Ramtar

[NogueiraA]

Wrong answer. Edited Edited January 6, 2013 by NogueiraA

[Carter_Mathis]

your correct Force Shroud needs to be remove.

 

Force Shroud can be made useless by using ranged or melee abilities (which any player who doesn't have their hands down their pants knows to use when a shadow starts glowing), but there is no smart way to go through Guarded by the force, only smart ways to wait it out.

[Givemedanger]

I also agree that the "god mode" for shadows/assassins should go too. If not give every class that kind of immunity (all negative effects removal).

 

I'm sorry i got a bit off-topic here.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Givemedanger

[Ramtar]

Force Shroud can be made useless by using ranged or melee abilities (which any player who doesn't have their hands down their pants knows to use when a shadow starts glowing), but there is no smart way to go through Guarded by the force, only smart ways to wait it out.

 

Stun or root. It has a 4 sec duration and cost 1/2 of your current hp to use.

 

So should the devs drop GbtF/UR duration to 3 sec and remove the stipulation of the costing 1/2 current hp to use to match Force Shroud?

Edited January 6, 2013 by Ramtar

[Anosa]

No it wasn't.

 

yes it was. it was hitting like 9k crits on AOE. thats not good lol

[sassafrassz]

Im really sick of smashers just completely locking down teams. Its insane when all you need is like 4 sents/marauders use smash/sweep and each get like 7k crits virtually killing an entire team in one move.

[Washingtoon]

I think we should delete said classes from the game. The people that are playing them are jerks anyway.

[NathanielStarr]

Legendary 31/31/31 spec its so good bro

 

pos·si·ble [pos-uh-buh l]

adjective

1.

that may or can be, exist, happen, be done, be used, etc.: a disease with no possible cure.

2.

that may be true or may be the case, as something concerning which one has no knowledge to the contrary: It is possible that he has already gone.

[Ramtar]

Im really sick of smashers just completely locking down teams. Its insane when all you need is like 4 sents/marauders use smash/sweep and each get like 7k crits virtually killing an entire team in one move.

 

if your team is going to cluster into a little area than it should be wiped out by the move.

[PoliteAssasin]

Force Shroud can be made useless by using ranged or melee abilities (which any player who doesn't have their hands down their pants knows to use when a shadow starts glowing), but there is no smart way to go through Guarded by the force, only smart ways to wait it out.

 

So stunning someone who pops that small 4 second immunity is hard? If anything force shroud is worse because its a second longer and immune to stuns unless its physical, which very few specs have. Force shroud also completely locks out some classes, while all you need to do for guarded is stun the sentinel and wait it out safely, something you can't exactly do to a shrouded shadow.

[HoboWithAStick]

Their defensive cooldowns with highest dps in the game is a bad combo to go against. That being said they aren't unkillable by any means. Its all about stunning them at the right time and kiting them around. That being said its still really crummy that you can almost take one out and they pop undying rage and prospone their death for another 3 secs and do 3 secs worth of damage which they don't deserve.