Sentinel and marauder balance

[CorroMar]

I've never had a problem Killing marauders 1v1 as a sniper. Cloak of pain? Sure.. Just stay hidden for a while as I wait for my knockbacks to reset. NBD

[Anosa]

Most I see. Or the only 'kiting' is hitting force speed and attempting to flee in a straight line. I hardly see any that can circle strafe. And no, I started from launch with a Sage and rolled another Sage and Sorc since....I've come across the best and worst of players out there.

 

thats because a lot of them resist stuns or snares.

[Anosa]

lol really jumping? L2P and the second jump is only 10 range

 

i do quite fine against all other classes

[Invictusthetaru]

Ill say the same for you on begeren. I'd be happy to show you why you can't beat a good watchman/anni dual weilder. And the 1v1 kings are tankasin dps hybrids, not scoundrels.

 

 

 

 

 

Only a bad dual weilder runs from a fight. Also, killing under skilled players has nothing to do with your cooldowns. Anyone can do that. I'd love to see you fight a competent player without your defensives. We don't stand a chance without them.

 

Are you stupid? Ops / scoundrels can cleanse your DOT instantly, WITHOUT dodge. Watchmen / anni is the MOST toast against a good scoundrel / operative.

 

The reason marauders are OP is because people don't know how to play their class and try to sit still or face tank them. Good players can make melees rage, trust me, I have both a mara and a jugg / guardian...as well as lots of other stuff.

[Invictusthetaru]

This is actually false. Obfuscate may look like it is really good in paper but in reality it isn't. You need to understand that ranged and mellee attacks are white damage. When you damage an enemy, a white number or yellow number pops up. Most classes don't really use white damage, they use force or tech attacks. These are yellow. Yellow damage automatically hits.

 

This is one of the reasons why shield, absorption and defense is practically useless in pvp. Smash, force scream, shock, lightning strike, and most bounty hunter attacks are yellow. This is why if an assassin/shadow uses force cloak, a bounty hunter practically can't hit him.

 

So obfuscate may look good in paper but in reality, it sucks. I mean it is still good because it is off the gcd but not as good as you think it is.

 

 

NO. In reality, it DOESN'T suck, because good marauders / sentinels use it at important times. See a maul proc on that deception assassin? Blind. Aim shot? Blind. Master strike? Blind. Powertech laugh? Blind.

 

You don't blind through tech damage you use it to completely mitigate white damage. Jesus this thread.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Invictusthetaru

[xxdragonragexx]

NO. In reality, it DOESN'T suck, because good marauders / sentinels use it at important times. See a maul proc on that deception assassin? Blind. Aim shot? Blind. Master strike? Blind. Powertech laugh? Blind.

 

You don't blind through tech damage you use it to completely mitigate white damage. Jesus this thread.

 

How often does white damage appear? The point is classes use 4 yellow damage abilities before they even use 1 white damage in a rotation. One more thing, Powertechs use tech damage except for railshot.

 

lastly, you can't choose when to use it because then I can play the same game to counter your argument. Oh look maul procs, I got blinded, I'll use shock, and force lightning then. Oh look, no more blind, use maul.

Why would I use master strike if I got blinded, I'll just use force crush, force scream, smash.

 

Your argument is completely useless. You may think obfuscate is a really good ability but in reality it hardly mitigates any damage unless your playing against noobs.

[Invictusthetaru]

How often does white damage appear? The point is classes use 4 yellow damage abilities before they even use 1 white damage in a rotation. One more thing, Powertechs use tech damage except for railshot.

 

lastly, you can't choose when to use it because then I can play the same game to counter your argument. Oh look maul procs, I got blinded, I'll use shock, and force lightning then. Oh look, no more blind, use maul.

Why would I use master strike if I got blinded, I'll just use force crush, force scream, smash.

 

Your argument is completely useless. You may think obfuscate is a really good ability but in reality it hardly mitigates any damage unless your playing against noobs.

 

Again, that's 6 seconds bought where you aren't using maul, that's huge considering it could have been proc'd again in that time. You don't blind anticipating master strike, you blind after it's been cast. I've been fighting a sage, gotten jumped to, master strike, tab blind, 0 damage.

 

Seriously you are a bad player if you think this ability can not help you win a fight.

 

The tech damage pyros deal out is good, but that's what rebuke and saber ward are for. 100 percent of the time I can guarantee a rail shot will not hit me.

 

How is that not a good cool down?

[xxdragonragexx]

Again, that's 6 seconds bought where you aren't using maul, that's huge considering it could have been proc'd again in that time. You don't blind anticipating master strike, you blind after it's been cast. I've been fighting a sage, gotten jumped to, master strike, tab blind, 0 damage.

 

Seriously you are a bad player if you think this ability can not help you win a fight.

 

The tech damage pyros deal out is good, but that's what rebuke and saber ward are for. 100 percent of the time I can guarantee a rail shot will not hit me.

 

How is that not a good cool down?

 

It doesn't really matter. It can make an ability miss but seriously, so what? There are plenty of defensive abilities that are better. Again it isn't really that good. It is useful but not that good. If we are going to rate all the defensive abilities, obfuscate is going to be at the bottom of the barrel.

 

The first guy who I quoted is saying obfuscate is what makes marauders overpowered which is really not true.

Which is my whole point, if you at least payed attention for a little bit or have some form of reading comprehension, you would have noticed that.

Edited January 4, 2013 by xxdragonragexx

[Invictusthetaru]

It doesn't really matter. It can make an ability miss but seriously, so what? There are plenty of defensive abilities that are better. Again it isn't really that good. It is useful but not that good. If we are going to rate all the defensive abilities, obfuscate is going to be at the bottom of the barrel.

 

The first guy who I quoted is saying obfuscate is what makes marauders overpowered which is really not true.

Which is my whole point, if you at least payed attention for a little bit or have some form of reading comprehension, you would have noticed that.

 

I don't think mara's are overpowered. I play a ton on my sin and shadow and I would say we are more OP than sents, AND we have cool hybrids that work interestingly.

 

At the end of the day with good players it all comes down to who has what cool downs up really.

 

Not to mention both classes shine even more in PVP with their utility, if their burst and survivability wasn't enough.

[AsiriusNazriel]

Sorcs are easy pickings my boy. As for scoundrels/operatives, the only way they can kill a sent is if they don't have all of their cooldowns up. If its a true 1v1 and both players are good, then the sentinel will win.

 

^^^^ This.

 

I still think that Annihilation > All other specs and classes in 1v1.

 

Only issue is if you get stunlocked and unloaded on by a Scoundrel/Operative, and even then you hit them with obfuscate and they miss their second burst, then you proceed to rip them up. That's my experience against 99% of stunlocking stabby stabby types.

 

Against hybrid tanks in DPS gear... 0 problems whatsoever.

 

DPS Sorcs are a joke. Juggs are a joke. Healers are a joke. Soft targets, easy peezy.

 

Hybrid Sorc/Sage heals can be an annoying problem to kill off, but still very doable.

 

So much ignorance in this thread, absolutely astounding.

[Anosa]

^^^^ This.

 

I still think that Annihilation > All other specs and classes in 1v1.

 

Only issue is if you get stunlocked and unloaded on by a Scoundrel/Operative, and even then you hit them with obfuscate and they miss their second burst, then you proceed to rip them up. That's my experience against 99% of stunlocking stabby stabby types.

 

Against hybrid tanks in DPS gear... 0 problems whatsoever.

 

DPS Sorcs are a joke. Juggs are a joke. Healers are a joke. Soft targets, easy peezy.

 

Hybrid Sorc/Sage heals can be an annoying problem to kill off, but still very doable.

 

So much ignorance in this thread, absolutely astounding.

 

anyone running annihilation, who is everyone.. mow players down. now i will say operatives are a pain in the butt with my sorc but its fine because if i get their cooldowns all going i have a chance. sents and marauders.. no chance

Edited January 4, 2013 by Anosa

[Anosa]

I think the majority of people here who have no issue with marauders and sentinels are either...

 

A. have never played more than one class.

 

B. Have a under geared character.

 

C. are holding onto it as a crutch.

[Anosa]

^^^^ This.

 

I still think that Annihilation > All other specs and classes in 1v1.

 

Only issue is if you get stunlocked and unloaded on by a Scoundrel/Operative, and even then you hit them with obfuscate and they miss their second burst, then you proceed to rip them up. That's my experience against 99% of stunlocking stabby stabby types.

 

Against hybrid tanks in DPS gear... 0 problems whatsoever.

 

DPS Sorcs are a joke. Juggs are a joke. Healers are a joke. Soft targets, easy peezy.

 

Hybrid Sorc/Sage heals can be an annoying problem to kill off, but still very doable.

 

So much ignorance in this thread, absolutely astounding.

 

ive pvped with you quite a few times on Arash

Edited January 4, 2013 by Anosa

[Makktenn]

I dont think they need balancing at all, they are the true glass cannon. If you're getting killed because of their defensive coold owns you're just a bad player. Learn to save your CC for when they are around 20-25% health, then you'll see them pop it and mez and wait 4 seconds. Mauraders are the first thing I go after with my PT if I dont see a merc around.

[Anosa]

I dont think they need balancing at all, they are the true glass cannon. If you're getting killed because of their defensive coold owns you're just a bad player. Learn to save your CC for when they are around 20-25% health, then you'll see them pop it and mez and wait 4 seconds. Mauraders are the first thing I go after with my PT if I dont see a merc around.

 

you cant even get them to 25% health because they kill you by then. they have both high defense and high damage. i get hit 9k crits by them and im in war hero.

[ViridianVex]

^^^^ This.

 

Only issue is if you get stunlocked and unloaded on by a Scoundrel/Operative, and even then you hit them with obfuscate and they miss their second burst, then you proceed to rip them up. That's my experience against 99% of stunlocking stabby stabby types.

 

Obfuscate doesn't help against operatives... Most of what we use, and all our hardest hitting attacks, are tech. Marauders are really not an issue to duel as concealment. Then again, most good conc ops have either specced heals, rerolled, or quit. I don't think people are used to fighting good ones these days. Of course, a marauder is generally going to be a drastically better choice for rateds than a conc op, but that's another story.

[AsiriusNazriel]

Obfuscate doesn't help against operatives... Most of what we use, and all our hardest hitting attacks, are tech. Marauders are really not an issue to duel as concealment. Then again, most good conc ops have either specced heals, rerolled, or quit. I don't think people are used to fighting good ones these days. Of course, a marauder is generally going to be a drastically better choice for rateds than a conc op, but that's another story.

 

If I have time to pop a WZ medpac, 9/10 I'm taking out the stunlocker. That's a personal experience.

[RogueNights]

These two classes really are in need of a balance for pvp. They are cutting through everyone in pvp and its causing a problem. What do you think can be done to fix these classes?

 

I feel like in the naïve “close gap and dps nearest target” mindset (which is how half the people in this game play 95% of the time), marauders wreck. Yes in a face tanking dps competition, they plain own people. They “cut down everything.”

 

They are however the least versatile class in the game tho.. They lack significant cc. The only classes w/ worse mobility have maintainable 30m range dps.. No class has less 10m and 30m range attacks. They are the most clustering prone/aoe vulnerable class in the game. Essentially they can’t really be stacked because of their weaknesses… else you start getting situations where a single bubble stun hits 4 people and healer gets away and half your team gets neutralized for 10 gcd, b/c no ones w/ in 4m and all their gap closers are on cd..

 

I don’t think most experienced players think any more than 2 is all that optimal due to their shortcomings…. I think this last point is the strongest one on class balance.. If teams the the general pop think are optimal only roll 1-2… I just don’t see big changes coming. Hitting 1 exactly is not possible.. and you cant get to "0-1 on an optimal team class" w/ out making another class a 1-2… Hopefully someone gets my point..

[fungihoujo]

I feel like in the naïve “close gap and dps nearest target” mindset (which is how half the people in this game play 95% of the time), marauders wreck. Yes in a face tanking dps competition, they plain own people. They “cut down everything.”

 

They are however the least versatile class in the game tho.. They lack significant cc. The only classes w/ worse mobility have maintainable 30m range dps.. No class has less 10m and 30m range attacks. They are the most clustering prone/aoe vulnerable class in the game. Essentially they can’t really be stacked because of their weaknesses… else you start getting situations where a single bubble stun hits 4 people and healer gets away and half your team gets neutralized for 10 gcd, b/c no ones w/ in 4m and all their gap closers are on cd..

 

I don’t think most experienced players think any more than 2 is all that optimal due to their shortcomings…. I think this last point is the strongest one on class balance.. If teams the the general pop think are optimal only roll 1-2… I just don’t see big changes coming. Hitting 1 exactly is not possible.. and you cant get to "0-1 on an optimal team class" w/ out making another class a 1-2… Hopefully someone gets my point..

 

Must explain why they're the most commonly taken dps class in RWZ. Lack of utility explains why they and stun bubble sorcs are the two only classes that are must haves on a team specifically for utility- oh, and the stun bubble is getting nerfed, which means soon it's just them.

 

Lack of CC? Guess that explains why they have a spec which can root you, through resolve, for 36 seconds per minute- including being able to chain 9 seconds of roots back to back at times. Why they have an instant, aoe mez.

 

Lack of mobility? Guess that explains why they have the shortest CD gap closer in the game, and one that works no matter what your enemy's resolve is unlike grapple/pull. Guess that explains why they have the most speed boosts too. Or, why they're the one class that can get a 15% passive speed boost at all times.

 

Add to that high burst, high sustained damage, and the best defensives in the game- not to mention one of five classes with a viable DPS spec for RWZ, not to mention perhaps the only class where all three specs are great.

 

I now play a marauder- I top the DPS, kill and solo kill charts, I capture nodes by myself constantly, I destroy healers and tanks effortlessly- I regularly get games where I have 50% more damage and kills than the next player. It is a team effort to stop me.

 

After playing other classes- picking up a marauder was like rerolling to god class.

[Anosa]

Must explain why they're the most commonly taken dps class in RWZ. Lack of utility explains why they and stun bubble sorcs are the two only classes that are must haves on a team specifically for utility- oh, and the stun bubble is getting nerfed, which means soon it's just them.

 

Lack of CC? Guess that explains why they have a spec which can root you, through resolve, for 36 seconds per minute- including being able to chain 9 seconds of roots back to back at times. Why they have an instant, aoe mez.

 

Lack of mobility? Guess that explains why they have the shortest CD gap closer in the game, and one that works no matter what your enemy's resolve is unlike grapple/pull. Guess that explains why they have the most speed boosts too. Or, why they're the one class that can get a 15% passive speed boost at all times.

 

Add to that high burst, high sustained damage, and the best defensives in the game- not to mention one of five classes with a viable DPS spec for RWZ, not to mention perhaps the only class where all three specs are great.

 

I now play a marauder- I top the DPS, kill and solo kill charts, I capture nodes by myself constantly, I destroy healers and tanks effortlessly- I regularly get games where I have 50% more damage and kills than the next player. It is a team effort to stop me.

 

After playing other classes- picking up a marauder was like rerolling to god class.

 

 

my friends in real life rolled maruaders, they told me in a discussion last week they love marauder because its so over powered and they have no issues in pvp.

[jizerai]

Must explain why they're the most commonly taken dps class in RWZ. Lack of utility explains why they and stun bubble sorcs are the two only classes that are must haves on a team specifically for utility- oh, and the stun bubble is getting nerfed, which means soon it's just them.

 

Lack of CC? Guess that explains why they have a spec which can root you, through resolve, for 36 seconds per minute- including being able to chain 9 seconds of roots back to back at times. Why they have an instant, aoe mez.

 

Lack of mobility? Guess that explains why they have the shortest CD gap closer in the game, and one that works no matter what your enemy's resolve is unlike grapple/pull. Guess that explains why they have the most speed boosts too. Or, why they're the one class that can get a 15% passive speed boost at all times.

 

Add to that high burst, high sustained damage, and the best defensives in the game- not to mention one of five classes with a viable DPS spec for RWZ, not to mention perhaps the only class where all three specs are great.

 

I now play a marauder- I top the DPS, kill and solo kill charts, I capture nodes by myself constantly, I destroy healers and tanks effortlessly- I regularly get games where I have 50% more damage and kills than the next player. It is a team effort to stop me.

 

After playing other classes- picking up a marauder was like rerolling to god class.

 

Actually. They're not. Both Operatives, Assassins and Powertechs can spec that. I do think they're probably the best, when well played, class in the game though. I just can't stand it when I see things that are wrong.

[bradsr]

The only time a Mara seems op is when they run with a pocket healer or are in a remade getting regular heals. Other than that there nothing special. Next time check to see if they got a healer babysitting them.

[fungihoujo]

The only time a Mara seems op is when they run with a pocket healer or are in a remade getting regular heals. Other than that there nothing special. Next time check to see if they got a healer babysitting them.

 

As opposed to that one class that isn't better when someone else is healing them.

[Anosa]

The only time a Mara seems op is when they run with a pocket healer or are in a remade getting regular heals. Other than that there nothing special. Next time check to see if they got a healer babysitting them.

 

they dont im pretty sure id notice that. if there was heals i wouldnt be arguing over it

[NathanielStarr]

High if not the highest Burst Damage

High Sustained damage

Great mobility

Best Survivability

Great combo of Ranged and Melee attacks

Possible stealth to exit combat

Possible healing

Possible speed boosts

Possible immunity to stuns

Easy to manage energy/force

Damage through most defenses

No real weakness

 

*by possible I mean you can have these things if you spec your character for it and some of their available may be limited. But still the option is there, where it is not for most classes. Most classes get 1 maybe 2 of those.

 

Supposed weaknesses that are not true

too many keys to press (you don't need to use them all)

limited to melee combat (with their ranged attacks/speed/jumps and the small size of the pvp maps that is not a real problem)

stun them to stop their big attacks (works against everyone)