Sentinel and marauder balance

[PoliteAssasin]

I'm sorry but if you cant beat a marauder as a Deception Assassin you are just plain bad. A marauder should stand no chance against a Deception or darkness assassin. If you use your stuns and slows right the marauder can barely get a hit in. I find powertechs, juggs and assassins are more powerful and can easily beat a marauder. But maybe that's just because I actually know how to counter one...

 

The only thing that needs to be nerfed is smash as it does way too much damage. The rest is fine. Other classes like sorcs and mercenaries can obviously use buffs. But stop picking on every ability the marauders have...jeez.

 

 

You're joking right? Deception/infiltration is so squishy. The only reason darkness beats us is the self heals. But then again, that's only in dps gear. Full darkness in tank gear is going to tickle us at best. Powertechs an juggs too? Lol you are way off. Powertechs of any spec are no issue to handle, same goes for juggernauts. What kind of players are you fighting lol? I'd love to see you try to counter a well played watchman.

 

 

Bubble stun completely destroys that class. It's like it exists just to piss them off. And it works. They are paper thin when their d cooldowns aren't up. They are balanced just fine.

 

Bubble stuns screw over every class, not just sentinels. But I do agree on your last comment, we are very squishy without our defensive cooldowns.

Edited January 2, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[ztee]

As someone who played from early access and left in feb, to come back for F2P (ironically subbing again) - i cant believe that i havnt been nerfed to the ground by now.

 

Its funny to think that there was so much crying about mara's / sent's being underpowered at release, all the while i was laughing to the bank.

 

The amount of defensive CD's is an utter joke. Im still 3 v 1ing scrubs in non rated as Anni - which is a dot spec, but burst is still off the chain. Ohhh... and when it all starts to go bad, just camo the **** out.

[Carter_Mathis]

Ah you have it all figured out eh? Then come at me bro. When I'm finished with you, you'll definitely need that drink.

 

 

What I find humorous is that on one hand Sorcs and operatives whine about how they need a buff because they need to bring friends to kill something, then on the other hand they claim to be able to kill a class that is perceived by many to be overpowered. So which is it?

 

Lol, if you ever find your way to Jedi Covenant, I'd be happy to back up that explanation of why you can't beat a scoundrel with some Shotguns And scoundrel could probably used a sustained damage buff/energy management buff, but 1v1 we're king

[NathanielStarr]

Well it seems unanimous. Over freaking powered.

[PoliteAssasin]

Lol, if you ever find your way to Jedi Covenant, I'd be happy to back up that explanation of why you can't beat a scoundrel with some Shotguns And scoundrel could probably used a sustained damage buff/energy management buff, but 1v1 we're king

 

Ill say the same for you on begeren. I'd be happy to show you why you can't beat a good watchman/anni dual weilder. And the 1v1 kings are tankasin dps hybrids, not scoundrels.

 

 

 

As someone who played from early access and left in feb, to come back for F2P (ironically subbing again) - i cant believe that i havnt been nerfed to the ground by now.

 

Its funny to think that there was so much crying about mara's / sent's being underpowered at release, all the while i was laughing to the bank.

 

The amount of defensive CD's is an utter joke. Im still 3 v 1ing scrubs in non rated as Anni - which is a dot spec, but burst is still off the chain. Ohhh... and when it all starts to go bad, just camo the **** out.

 

Only a bad dual weilder runs from a fight. Also, killing under skilled players has nothing to do with your cooldowns. Anyone can do that. I'd love to see you fight a competent player without your defensives. We don't stand a chance without them.

Edited January 2, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[JackNader]

What has deception got that a marauder can't counter?

 

Let's see

 

They have the same internal and energy reduction.

Both have access to a talent that boost their internal and energy DR by a good margin. The sins drops off by itself and costs significant resources to chain it together, the marauders has to be pulled off by stun and running. (the sin has 1 in combat no force cost stun.. the other costs 30 force which is a significant dps loss and will become unavailable when force is low)

Marauders have saberward which is infinitely superior to deflection.

Marauders have obfuscation which is 6 seconds of virtual immunity to all the sins heavy burst attacks (assassinate and maul.)

Undying rage which again the sin must save a stun for or be lolraped for 4 seconds.

 

It's like comparing a boxer with no arms to a boxer with arms. The cooldowns are there for all to see and yet you still think deception sin is going to beat them in a stand up fight.. no. you're only beating the bad ones bro.

 

All a marauder has to do is hit obfuscate on your open and your screwed. That's it! If they don't have that ability or they FAIL (cough bad marauder cough) to cast it then your burst will land and it will be a rape fest. The reason you wont ever win vs a good one is because they mitigate your entire burst and they have significantly better sustained DPS than you do and overall better sustained mitigation cooldowns.

Edited January 2, 2013 by JackNader

[PoliteAssasin]

What has deception got that a marauder can't counter?

 

Let's see

 

They have the same internal and energy reduction.

Both have access to a talent that boost their internal and energy DR by a good margin. The sins drops off by itself and costs significant resources to chain it together, the marauders has to be pulled off by stun and running. (the sin has 1 in combat no force cost stun.. the other costs 30 force which is a significant dps loss and will become unavailable when force is low)

Marauders have saberward which is infinitely superior to deflection.

Marauders have obfuscation which is 6 seconds of virtual immunity to all the sins heavy burst attacks (assassinate and maul.)

Undying rage which again the sin must save a stun for or be lolraped for 4 seconds.

 

It's like comparing a boxer with no arms to a boxer with arms. The cooldowns are there for all to see and yet you still think deception sin is going to beat them in a stand up fight.. no. you're only beating the bad ones bro.

 

All a marauder has to do is hit obfuscate on your open and your screwed. That's it! If they don't have that ability or they FAIL (cough bad marauder cough) to cast it then your burst will land and it will be a rape fest. The reason you wont ever win vs a good one is because they mitigate your entire burst and they have significantly better sustained DPS than you do and overall better sustained mitigation cooldowns.

 

Tell em like it is Nader! You've got my vote!

Edited January 2, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[NathanielStarr]

So Bioware fix it already. Many players hide behind these classes and it's killing SWTOR PvP. It is not competitive, it's just the team with more marauders/sentinels and healers wins. If you play anything else you are stupid and should not be playing PvP. Maybe you do ok with your sniper or your assassin, but you would be doing better as a marauder.

[ztee]

Only a bad dual weilder runs from a fight. Also, killing under skilled players has nothing to do with your cooldowns. Anyone can do that. I'd love to see you fight a competent player without your defensives. We don't stand a chance without them.

 

You mean those stupidly short cool downs, that if rotated well enough (and with a bit of luck) can keep you in a majority of fights indefinitely? Don’t get me wrong, I think a lot of the crying is unjustified, but some of the stuff that you can literally put out of your arse with this class is a joke.

Edited January 2, 2013 by ztee

[NathanielStarr]

By competent player he means another Jedi Knight or Sith Warrior

[PoliteAssasin]

By competent player he means another Jedi Knight or Sith Warrior

 

I was wondering when you'd show up. You love to follow me everywhere. <3

[fungihoujo]

Carnage's burst is not overpowered because its the most easily countered burst in the game, all you have to do is stun, thats why its so powerful you'd have to be an idiot to eat a whole gore buffed ravage unless the idiots on your team give him full resolve and he decides it your lucky day...

 

As opposed to that one class that doesn't lose out on burst with stuns.

[Anosa]

As opposed to that one class that doesn't lose out on burst with stuns.

 

i got hit for 9k today by a marauder. yes i have bm and war hero gear

Edited January 4, 2013 by Anosa

[NoTomorrow]

So if we buff socs, nerf rage, buff mercs, remove stun bubble all our balance probems will be finished? Smth tells me this will never end. Edited January 4, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Yeochins]

Lol, if you ever find your way to Jedi Covenant, I'd be happy to back up that explanation of why you can't beat a scoundrel with some Shotguns And scoundrel could probably used a sustained damage buff/energy management buff, but 1v1 we're king

 

You can't beat a competent annihilation marauder 1 versus 1. You can retry every trick in the bag, but you wont be able to get around the fact that they can outlast you. In a 1 versus 1 fight a good annihilation marauder will have 3 opportunities to use beserk. Or, 2 opportunities and using one stack on bloodlust. All of which are devastating to a scoundrel.

 

Now if you were talking about a Carnage or Rage marauder then I'd agree that the scoundrel has the upper hand and can win more on average. But you stand no chance against annihilation, it is the 1v1 king after tank assassins in DPS gear.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Yeochins

[JackNader]

^Bro -> it's not hard to click the cleanse button lol. Also Concealment operatives heal for 2% every 3 seconds. Ontop of that you lose a huge portion of your hitpoints with their opening rotation while you can't really do anything back.

[AngusFTW]

As opposed to that one class that doesn't lose out on burst with stuns.

They can't do any major burst if you stun through the gore window for another 12 seconds most other specs can keep going tbh. Hell you can stun a smasher but if he's put force exhaustion on someone it'll conveniently build stacks while he's stunned.. so to answer your question yes stunning a carnage marauder loses more burst stunned then any other class. Probably the only other class that gets there burst badly effected by stuns is a scoundrel being mezed out of stealth so they cant use shoot first.

Edited January 4, 2013 by AngusFTW

[fungihoujo]

How many Sorcs you play against actively kite you about? Even in the 50's bracket I see most of them only move when using Force Speed, and then remain planted to the spot as the Mara closes distance. If I have the choice between playing a Sorc or Mara in a 1v1 vs each other, I'll take the Sorc.

 

Ya, crazy sorcs and their lack of moving at all times, it's almost like 90% of their abilities require you to stand still in order to use them.

 

But, you'd know that if you'd ever actually played a sorc.

[fungihoujo]

They can't do any major burst if you stun through the gore window for another 12 seconds most other specs can keep going tbh. Hell you can stun a smasher but if he's put force exhaustion on someone it'll conveniently build stacks while he's stunned.. so to answer your question yes stunning a carnage marauder loses more burst stunned then any other class. Probably the only other class that gets there burst badly effected by stuns is a scoundrel being mezed out of stealth so they cant use shoot first.

 

So you're waiting 11 seconds after being stunned for 4 seconds after using gore.

 

Mez- you're now waiting 5 seconds.

 

Stun- now waiting 2 seconds.

 

Deadly throw root- gore's up, and if you're lucky enough that they wasted their CC break on an earlier CC- you have a much harder to stop ravage for 80% of their health. Execute- dead.

 

Or- chain together 9 seconds of roots to keep them in place- gore is now up again.

 

Or- force camo and UR- gore is now up again.

 

Or- you know, it seems like mara have an awful lot of ways to counter this 'burst killing stun of wonder'... if of course you feel like doing so- I'd hardly use UR and FC to counter it- but, I COULD if I truly felt like wasting my CDs in such a manner, which is more than pretty much any other class can say.

 

And I do- though I do prefer to roll annihilation, I've had no issues getting out constant burst strings as a carnage either, it's not as simple to counter as you assume, and even if you do I'll be able to use it again long before you can counter it a second time. Thing about countering gore is- it's not exactly something that flashes brightly on your screen that says 'watch out, this mara has gore up!'- such flashy signs are saved thankfully for operations bosses and ranged classes.

 

 

edit- not that you need gore for sorcs anyway- 100% armour pen on 18% mitigation is hardly a big deal... your ravage will deal 3k/3k/6k or 3.6k/3.6k/7.2k damage- either way you're ruining that sorc's day.

Edited January 4, 2013 by fungihoujo

[Rincewend]

So you're waiting 11 seconds after being stunned for 4 seconds after using gore.

 

Mez- you're now waiting 5 seconds.

 

Stun- now waiting 2 seconds.

 

Deadly throw root- gore's up, and if you're lucky enough that they wasted their CC break on an earlier CC- you have a much harder to stop ravage for 80% of their health. Execute- dead.

 

Or- chain together 9 seconds of roots to keep them in place- gore is now up again.

 

Or- force camo and UR- gore is now up again.

 

Or- you know, it seems like mara have an awful lot of ways to counter this 'burst killing stun of wonder'... if of course you feel like doing so- I'd hardly use UR and FC to counter it- but, I COULD if I truly felt like wasting my CDs in such a manner, which is more than pretty much any other class can say.

 

And I do- though I do prefer to roll annihilation, I've had no issues getting out constant burst strings as a carnage either, it's not as simple to counter as you assume, and even if you do I'll be able to use it again long before you can counter it a second time. Thing about countering gore is- it's not exactly something that flashes brightly on your screen that says 'watch out, this mara has gore up!'- such flashy signs are saved thankfully for operations bosses and ranged classes.

 

 

edit- not that you need gore for sorcs anyway- 100% armour pen on 18% mitigation is hardly a big deal... your ravage will deal 3k/3k/6k or 3.6k/3.6k/7.2k damage- either way you're ruining that sorc's day.

 

Trying to teach the unteachable again? All true as normal and will be ignored by the monkeys or raged at.

[nokizaru]

How many Sorcs don't try to kite? You must be dueling bad fotm rerollers.

 

Most I see. Or the only 'kiting' is hitting force speed and attempting to flee in a straight line. I hardly see any that can circle strafe. And no, I started from launch with a Sage and rolled another Sage and Sorc since....I've come across the best and worst of players out there.

[nokizaru]

Ya, crazy sorcs and their lack of moving at all times, it's almost like 90% of their abilities require you to stand still in order to use them.

 

But, you'd know that if you'd ever actually played a sorc.

 

And you know what I play...how? Oh....you're making an ASSumption. I play both Sage and Sorc. If you play full Balance like I do most of the time, "90%" of abilities don't require you to stand still. At any rate, kiting to get distance (while using the CC available) makes all the difference when activating channelled abilities - something I rarely see Sage/Sorc players doing.

[PloGreen]

And you know what I play...how? Oh....you're making an ASSumption. I play both Sage and Sorc. If you play full Balance like I do most of the time, "90%" of abilities don't require you to stand still. At any rate, kiting to get distance (while using the CC available) makes all the difference when activating channelled abilities - something I rarely see Sage/Sorc players doing.

 

Yup. Balance is a kiting spec. Some sages will tell you that its not possible, my only conclusion is that they suck because ofc you can.

[beyondkilling]

The biggest issue for me is their ability to jump targets. If the player tosses out abilities to control their distance or to get them off the player, they still get jumped 2 seconds later.

 

lol really jumping? L2P and the second jump is only 10 range

[xxdragonragexx]

Snipers, Combust powertechs, marauders, juggernaughts and deception sins are heavily dependent on ranged / melee attacks.

 

This is actually false. Obfuscate may look like it is really good in paper but in reality it isn't. You need to understand that ranged and mellee attacks are white damage. When you damage an enemy, a white number or yellow number pops up. Most classes don't really use white damage, they use force or tech attacks. These are yellow. Yellow damage automatically hits.

 

This is one of the reasons why shield, absorption and defense is practically useless in pvp. Smash, force scream, shock, lightning strike, and most bounty hunter attacks are yellow. This is why if an assassin/shadow uses force cloak, a bounty hunter practically can't hit him.

 

So obfuscate may look good in paper but in reality, it sucks. I mean it is still good because it is off the gcd but not as good as you think it is.

Edited January 4, 2013 by xxdragonragexx