SWTOR still bleeding players?

[Fraeblood]

http://www.torstatus.net/jedi-covenant/history/7d#!/jedi-covenant/history/30d

 

 

Where's the "bleeding" part? That looks like it keeps going up, back to normal, and up again. Never bottoming out or constantly going down.

 

Stop "trolling" or whatever it is you call this idiocy. The game is fine.

 

Ya I know, those F2P players who can't do FP, or OPS, or WZ......

Yes the game is ful of F2P players who are just leveling by themselves.

Not really what I would consider a meaningful playerbase.

 

And that site is still out of wack after the servers being merged.

[Trenter]

Ya I know, those F2P players who can't do FP, or OPS, or WZ......

Yes the game is ful of F2P players who are just leveling by themselves.

Not really what I would consider a meaningful playerbase.

 

Are you serious mate? What is it you're considering "a meaningful playerbase" then?

[Fraeblood]

Are you serious mate? What is it you're considering "a meaningful playerbase" then?

 

Well I mean the F2P players cant raid with guilds who raid multiple times a week. Cant PVP with guilds who do tons of WZ a day. They are more or less in their own world, sharing ours. So I do seperate them because they just can't do everything Subs can at the amount subs can. I am sure most people DL it to see the stories and then quit. They don't help the endgame world much if at all, and IMO that is the real meat of an MMO. If all peopel want is story, there are better single player games to play. So yes while they are bodies in the world, they are in their own little world. And if any F2P players buy passes at the amount it would take to play the game at a good amount in endgame, then they are fools, and should just Sub. So I doubt many if any would be that dumb.

[ckoneful]

Well I mean the F2P players cant raid with guilds who raid multiple times a week. Cant PVP with guilds who do tons of WZ a day. They are more or less in their own world, sharing ours. So I do seperate them because they just can't do everything Subs can at the amount subs can. I am sure most people DL it to see the stories and then quit. They don't help the endgame world much if at all, and IMO that is the real meat of an MMO. If all peopel want is story, there are better single player games to play. So yes while they are bodies in the world, they are in their own little world. And if any F2P players buy passes at the amount it would take to play the game at a good amount in endgame, then they are fools, and should just Sub. So I doubt many if any would be that dumb.

 

Actually, I've talked to quite a bit of people who came here as F2P and now subscribe. We're gaining subscribers, not just F2Pers. I also doubt anyone is willing to go to 50 as F2P if they aren't willing to shell out 15$.

[Trenter]

Well I mean the F2P players cant raid with guilds who raid multiple times a week. Cant PVP with guilds who do tons of WZ a day. They are more or less in their own world, sharing ours. So I do seperate them because they just can't do everything Subs can at the amount subs can. I am sure most people DL it to see the stories and then quit. They don't help the endgame world much if at all, and IMO that is the real meat of an MMO. If all peopel want is story, there are better single player games to play. So yes while they are bodies in the world, they are in their own little world. And if any F2P players buy passes at the amount it would take to play the game at a good amount in endgame, then they are fools, and should just Sub. So I doubt many if any would be that dumb.

 

Oh, okay. Then you wouldn't consider me or many on my friendslist a meaningful playerbase either. I'm a roleplayer and an altaholic. I level characters and I roleplay with others. That's pretty much it. I rarely PvP or do FPs and I can count the Ops I've done on one hand. I'm a sub granted so I suppose my 15 a month is somewhat meaningful to you, but we have a lot of f2p'ers in my guild and I definately consider them more meaningful than a bunch of people hiding in a dungeon somewhere. Those people are not even bodies in the world...

[Fraeblood]

Oh, okay. Then you wouldn't consider me or many on my friendslist a meaningful playerbase either. I'm a roleplayer and an altaholic. I level characters and I roleplay with others. That's pretty much it. I rarely PvP or do FPs and I can count the Ops I've done on one hand. I'm a sub granted so I suppose my 15 a month is somewhat meaningful to you, but we have a lot of f2p'ers in my guild and I definately consider them more meaningful than a bunch of people hiding in a dungeon somewhere. Those people are not even bodies in the world...

 

Nope I wouldn't and that is sort of my point. the game is ONLY dead if the type of MMOers you need stop playing. So the game is thriving AND dying. For us raiders it is getting harder and harder to replace players who are quitting. So often we only find brand new players, and while we are clearing the hardest content, finding fresh raiders is not gonna cut it. The raider base is def dwindling. but yes the casual base is thriving. This game is awesome for more casual players.

[Ansalem]

People don't harassed others over nothing. You probably responded to some thing people said in general chat one too many times. Next time don't say any thing.

 

Apparently they do. All it took was me requesting someone to stop insulting, name calling, and breaking the rules of conduct and everyone jumped. Telling a rule breaker to obey the rules of conduct is apparently a big no no and will make everyone harrass you while bioware does nothing to stop it.

[Fraeblood]

Actually, I've talked to quite a bit of people who came here as F2P and now subscribe. We're gaining subscribers, not just F2Pers. I also doubt anyone is willing to go to 50 as F2P if they aren't willing to shell out 15$.

 

Well that is all a POV. We don't have real numbers to see if this is true. I know of the 40+ players i started with only 2 of us are still subs. So yeah some peopel will know many new subs, some will know many people who stopped subs. it is all reletive, so we can't asume this is a majority of the player base. IMO if they had a large enough of F2P players going Sub, they would say something. Blizard is the only company that says its numbers because 10 million doesn't look bad in the media, but saying 500k when you had 2million, looks meh. Even if numbers are up.

[CosmicKat]

Nope I wouldn't and that is sort of my point. the game is ONLY dead if the type of MMOers you need stop playing. So the game is thriving AND dying. For us raiders it is getting harder and harder to replace players who are quitting. So often we only find brand new players, and while we are clearing the hardest content, finding fresh raiders is not gonna cut it. The raider base is def dwindling. but yes the casual base is thriving. This game is awesome for more casual players.

 

This has been the game's problem since Day 1.

 

The majority of people who think the game is "awesome" are casual players. The stereotypical casual gamer will be gone in 3 months, no matter how awesome they think the game is. Using the CM to squeeze more money out of them in those 3 months is a short term solution that is already wearing off. Making the game more compelling is the real solution that will keep the game going.

[Ansalem]

Ans, What server are you on? I don't think you need to allow yourself to be subjected to harassment. I do find it rather suspect that you have to ignore so many people, that your list is currently full. I think there is something more going on than you are telling us. And, that's fine. Your business is your own. But, I have a few suggestions that could possibly help:

 

You say you need the gen chat. I disagree with you. If you are making something, then advertising that something and receiving a whisper for that something you definitely do not need general chat. You can go to the GTN, and put the product on there for whatever you can hock it for and never have to deal with someone whispering things to you from a general chat perspective. At some point, I would easily trade a slightly lesser load of in game credits for peace of mind. After all, this isn't giving you real money from a real business. So save yourself the hassel, and take a slightly less return on your crafted materials. You'll be better off mentally for it.

 

Turn off general chat, or modify it so you can only talk to your guild mates and selected friends. There is no reason for you to have to use general chat. None. You don't really need it for "advertising". I actually think advertising on gen chat is horribly rude in and of itself. Which is a major reason I don't typically have my chat window open. The LFG tool will place you into pugs just fine as well., and I will admit if you are trying to run each and every 2-4 man planetary heroic you won't be able to use the tool.

 

Lastly, this game is a video game. Re-roll an alt on another server. There is nothing stopping you from re-creating your experience elsewhere away from the people who want to mess with you. Will it take some time? Sure. You may enjoy it too. The biggest thing is that you can absolutely change your situation. You don't need BW to do it for you. Restart your experience elsewhere, and see if you can change whatever behavior that riles up so many people that you have to ignore an entire full list of people. And, if the first re-roll doesn't work. Do it again. You don't need to sit there with one character and take abuse. You have the power YOURSELF to change things. I'd suggest doing it., Good luck with whatever path you choose.

 

unfortunately advertising via general chat is the only effective way. People apparently don't like to buy the implants I put up on the GTN but by advertising that I will craft the implants if they provide mats and a tip sells like hotcakes. I currently have 4 very useful hazmat implants that I have been selling since the first day the patch came out where they were available. So I do indeed need general chat...its how I make my money that I then use for either mats or other items to replenish the gbank for raids as Im the main supplier for stims,adrenals, and medpacs in my guild.

 

I do take breaks every so often where Ill take a day off sitting in my ship...but I still get harrassed with the whispers. It is really disappointing to see how this all snowballed. It started with me asking a very angry person in general chat to stop insulting me, name calling, and using profanity (yes I know filter...guess what it doesn't block out everything especially when people are extremely descriptive about their sexual acts). Ask 1 person to obey the rules and bam a whole mountain of people start cussing, insulting, being racist etc...it never ends. Prophecy of the Five has one of the worst general chats Ive ever encountered in any game.

 

Also that advertising I use trade chat at times too for it if someone says they don't appreciate my message in general chat, but then I get hounded on trade chat and the whispers continue. Its absolutely terrible that bioware has done nothing about it.

[Xatasha]

Well that is all a POV. We don't have real numbers to see if this is true. I know of the 40+ players i started with only 2 of us are still subs. So yeah some peopel will know many new subs, some will know many people who stopped subs. it is all reletive, so we can't asume this is a majority of the player base. IMO if they had a large enough of F2P players going Sub, they would say something. Blizard is the only company that says its numbers because 10 million doesn't look bad in the media, but saying 500k when you had 2million, looks meh. Even if numbers are up.

 

I call BS. Even as a guild leader of a guild of 200 plus I never knew 40 people that well to say if they had quit the game or not. More likely 40 is a number that was pulled out of the air

[Fraeblood]

Ok we had a 25 person guild at launch, and there is only 2 left from that. We then joined another guild that all but left the game. So 40 is a close enough number to be honest. I also know of other guilds who were with us in clearing content as server firsts who all quit as well. So that is around 2 other 8 and guilds. Now some of those peopel might have come back, I don't know, but close to 40 is def not out of the range.

Most of the serious raiders have quit. I only came back cause I wanted to see the new OPS, but only 1 person I knew then still plays that I know of. I can try to dig up old guild web sites and you can see how many have quit.

And those 200+ guilds are what i am saying is thriving. those guilds are not the hardcore raiders/pvper. Yes in your world all is well, but for players in my world, the game is not doing so well. Again it is all reletive.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Fraeblood

[LordArtemis]

There is no doubt that this game hemorrhaged players in under a year. The reasons are speculative, but it did happen. I think, however, it is likely the population has at least stabilized, though maybe dipping a bit after the Makeb announcement.

[sstanks]

Ok we had a 25 person guild at launch, and there is only 2 left from that. We then joined another guild that all but left the game. So 40 is a close enough number to be honest. I also know of other guilds who were with us in clearing content as server firsts who all quit as well. So that is around 2 other 8 and guilds. Now some of those peopel might have come back, I don't know, but close to 40 is def not out of the range.

Most of the serious raiders have quit. I only came back cause I wanted to see the new OPS, but only 1 person I knew then still plays that I know of. I can try to dig up old guild web sites and you can see how many have quit.

And those 200+ guilds are what i am saying is thriving. those guilds are not the hardcore raiders/pvper. Yes in your world all is well, but for players in my world, the game is not doing so well. Again it is all reletive.

 

now I love rading. I absolutely love it. But I also know that Raiders are a very small percentage of the player base. Hardcore raiders even less so.

 

This is why you have seen the shift in WoW from 40 man raids to what are they now 10 and 20 man? And they are all really easy. Fact is it doesn't pay for a MMO to cater to the Hardcore Raider base. It's a dying breed in MMOs. This is why raiders go crazy when they here what ever new MMO is going to be like old school EQ. But it never works out in the end.

[Xatasha]

Ok we had a 25 person guild at launch, and there is only 2 left from that. We then joined another guild that all but left the game. So 40 is a close enough number to be honest. I also know of other guilds who were with us in clearing content as server firsts who all quit as well. So that is around 2 other 8 and guilds. Now some of those peopel might have come back, I don't know, but close to 40 is def not out of the range.

Most of the serious raiders have quit. I only came back cause I wanted to see the new OPS, but only 1 person I knew then still plays that I know of. I can try to dig up old guild web sites and you can see how many have quit.

And those 200+ guilds are what i am saying is thriving. those guilds are not the hardcore raiders/pvper. Yes in your world all is well, but for players in my world, the game is not doing so well. Again it is all reletive.

 

I don't think you understand how guilds work. Even with the best guilds you have large number that will either park an alt in it and never play again, quit it or decide to play some low level toon elsewhere.

 

Trying to judge subs by the number of guildies you can keep is just plain foolish. Your guild might just suck

[Jett-Rinn]

Ahhh yet another thread by the ever desperate SWG fan base to prove once again that SWTOR is dying.

 

/point

/laugh

[LordArtemis]

Ahhh yet another thread by the ever desperate SWG fan base to prove once again that SWTOR is dying.

 

/point

/laugh

 

I fail to understand this reaction from some folks when threads like this pop up. It seems a bit odd to make this contention at this point since the game did lose most of it's player base, and my guess would be most of those "haters" have moved on to other games by now.

 

I would guess that most of the players here now are passionate about the game and it's success. It seems silly to me to blanket those folks with accusations of dreadmongering while cheerleading in the same breath.

 

The game needs neither. What it needs, IMO, is critical feedback so that it can continue to grow and improve. Cheerleading and Raging contributes nothing to the game's health or growth.

[Krewel]

I call BS. Even as a guild leader of a guild of 200 plus I never knew 40 people that well to say if they had quit the game or not. More likely 40 is a number that was pulled out of the air

 

Speak for yourself, I totally agree with the guy you're trying to dispute. I've personally seen over 50 raiders leave the game during this year, needless to say a stable 16m ops guild has been an impossibility for over half a year now simply because of the lack of people, or rather lack of raiders. On the previous server (Basilisk Droid) the Imperial Fleet literally had 10-20 people online at peak hours before the server got merged with Tomb of Freedon Nadd. That was around May ... now please tell me how you can have a viable and stable raiding community with so few people?

 

On TOFN right now the Empire side is littered with either f2p dribblers or casual players who have absolutely no interest in playing "ender" game, the average "raider" there lasts about a few weeks before he/she jumps ship. I've personally been part of at least 4x 16m ops groups and every time they fell apart like a stack of cards after only a week or two. Why? Too many people left the game. Needless to say there is NO 16 man guild on TOFN Empire side, and as far as I know, there is only one on the Rep side. And to make matters worse, my guild (Saga) achieved server Empire first TFB HM, EC NiM and timed run under atrocious conditions, namely 2-3 people leaving after TFB HM and EC NiM released, respectively, meaning there were about 6 people online at peak hours ... and even after such setbacks we still somehow beat the content first. So other guilds are much worse. And the recruitment? We are seeking only dpsers, we have enough tanks and healers ... nope, noone has applied for over two months, and, as I said, the average recruit/raider leaves after a few weeks. The situation is dire, to say the least. NONE of those 50 players that I've seen leave the game has yet returned. And bear in mind TOFN is the only pvp server, the other English server (which is faring much better when it comes to raiding, I have to say) is Red Eclipse, but BW, in all their wisdom, does not allow server transfers, so yeah, stuck on TOFN for better or worse ... and it's getting worse and worse. So, again, speak for yourself if you don't have such problems, but my personal experience attests to the dire situation we had on Basilisk Droid and now on TOFN.

 

Is SWTOR bleeding players? According to my extensive experience (been actively playing since early release, first on Basilisk Droid, after merges on TOFN, I have around 70 days of played time) YES, but only players engaged in endgame. I enjoy the game immensely, but if this trend of losing players continues, I may soon find myself without a good raiding guild and being stuck on a server lacking any hardcore pve community. I really can't believe it's come to this, but I am seriously considering ending my playing session simply because of the lack of raiding people. Without a strong raiding community (not necessarily hardcore) I see no point in playing this game for years on end. It's not like we are given enough of that fourth pillar to occupy us for years ...

Edited December 25, 2012 by Krewel

[Fraeblood]

Head-desk

 

honestly if anyone can believe this game has not lost a lot of subs and even going free to play is not in a good place and will just continue to bleed, then I don't know what to say. It is not liek some big secret this game has been slowly losing subs. Every gaming news outlet will tell you the same thing. This is not soem opinion. Now if you like the game, that is fine. Play it, hell I play it, but that does not mean it is having major issues. It is a 200million budget game that went F2P in less then a year. Yes it is having problems.

 

I got some land I wanna sell you people, and a car... don't worry they are both great.

[LoL-K-Noob]

The only things to do when you hit 50:

 

-Run the hardest content Once a week

-PvP the same 5 arenas

-Roll an alt

-Grind dailies

-Troll general chat

 

Not a surprise this game is dying and went f2p

[Kobes]

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/stats

 

Not sure how people still think this game is bleeding players. This game is stabilized. And IMO has been slowly growing.

 

IMO this is the best mmo on the market right now. And I'm glad to see it grow and develope. I think it has had a rough start but for the most part I like the frequent content updates and as llong as they dont sway too much towards play to win, I like the direction it's going.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Kobes

[Fraeblood]

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/stats

 

Not sure how people still think this game is bleeding players. This game is stabilized. And IMO has been slowly growing.

 

IMO this is the best mmo on the market right now. And I'm glad to see it grow and develope. I think it has had a rough start but for the most part I like the frequent content updates and as llong as they dont sway too much towards play to win, I like the direction it's going.

 

You do know that counts the status of the servers, and it in no way shows the population. SWTOR has changed time and again what light, med, and high means. So it is really a bad way of saying the game has a lot of players.

But like I will say again, if you like the game, great, if not, great, but the game has lost a huge chunk of subs, and there is no way of knowing if it gaining any more or losing more. Unless they announce numbers again in a investor's call, nobody knows.

[Ravagexe]

Whenever I login to game, I have more than enough (Sometimes a lot more than its supposed to be...) people playing the game and all servers at least on heavy population. That is enough for me

[Trenter]

Whenever I login to game, I have more than enough (Sometimes a lot more than its supposed to be...) people playing the game and all servers at least on heavy population. That is enough for me

 

Yeah, same here. Loads of people around. Good enough for me too.

[Kobes]

You do know that counts the status of the servers, and it in no way shows the population. SWTOR has changed time and again what light, med, and high means. So it is really a bad way of saying the game has a lot of players.

But like I will say again, if you like the game, great, if not, great, but the game has lost a huge chunk of subs, and there is no way of knowing if it gaining any more or losing more. Unless they announce numbers again in a investor's call, nobody knows.

 

Even if its based on light med an high it would still show that it's not bleeding out players. Or else the weekly change would be negative.