Something I just thought about with the new content patch

[Glorthox]

Subscribers pay 9.99 and F2P pay 19.99. If this is the case, then why don't the subscriber add their 14.99 onto that 9.99 and see that the active subscriber is definitely paying more than the F2P person. Sorry this just came to me. If anything the subscriber shouldn't have to pay a dime for the new content patch. But if your F2P you would have to. It would generate more incentive for F2P people to actively subscribe..

[Cylnael]

You're a subscriber.

 

You decided to pay to play.

 

Deal with it.

[Katsuragisama]

Subscribers pay 9.99 and F2P pay 19.99. If this is the case, then why don't the subscriber add their 14.99 onto that 9.99 and see that the active subscriber is definitely paying more than the F2P person. Sorry this just came to me. If anything the subscriber shouldn't have to pay a dime for the new content patch. But if your F2P you would have to. It would generate more incentive for F2P people to actively subscribe..

 

Quite a few people on the forums have to the realization that with the cost of the sub, and buying the "expansion" (read: milked content patch), that you're actually paying $25 dollars total, where freeps are paying $20.

 

You're a subscriber.

 

You decided to pay to play.

 

Deal with it.

 

What a wonderful attitude.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Quite a few people on the forums have to the realization that with the cost of the sub, and buying the "expansion" (read: milked content patch), that you're actually paying $25 dollars total, where freeps are paying $20.

 

Freeps (I actually like it... Sounds almost like a "creep") aren't paying a sub and they're having heavily circumcised game experience. No medical probes, limited Warzones, Flashpoints, Operations, Gear. Those who lasted to level 50... I don't think they will enjoy the expansion without subbing and their limited credit caps and everything being harder and harder for them with each level. And there are those mere 550 cartel coins each month.

 

Being charged half of the "normal" price, when subbed, works fine with me.

[opriv]

Subscribers pay 9.99 and F2P pay 19.99. If this is the case, then why don't the subscriber add their 14.99 onto that 9.99 and see that the active subscriber is definitely paying more than the F2P person. Sorry this just came to me. If anything the subscriber shouldn't have to pay a dime for the new content patch. But if your F2P you would have to. It would generate more incentive for F2P people to actively subscribe..

 

I buy subs 6 months at a time. They announced FTP a week after my last sub was purchased. I have been sitting on the fence since then. I was excited about Makeb as I wanted new content. I had a sinking feeling that they were going to draw it out and charge me for it. I was right.

 

I canceled my subscription last night. If they want my business in the future, they are going to have to earn it. No, it's not just 10 bucks. Its $160 for my account and my wife's. To add an additional $20 on top of that, I would rather save my money till they prove themselves. I believe we paid $320 for the past year. They can do the next 12 months on their own.

[Shingara]

I buy subs 6 months at a time. They announced FTP a week after my last sub was purchased. I have been sitting on the fence since then. I was excited about Makeb as I wanted new content. I had a sinking feeling that they were going to draw it out and charge me for it. I was right.

 

I canceled my subscription last night. If they want my business in the future, they are going to have to earn it. No, it's not just 10 bucks. Its $160 for my account and my wife's. To add an additional $20 on top of that, I would rather save my money till they prove themselves. I believe we paid $320 for the past year. They can do the next 12 months on their own.

 

Dito, i also complained to the asa for false advertising.

[Malastare]

This is horrible math. This is the sort of math/statistics abuse that scam artists and crappy journalists use.

 

Subscribers pay a monthly fee. For that fee, they get a large collection of perks over F2Pers. End of story. That cost is spent getting those perks.

 

The expansion costs $10 for subscribers and $20 for F2Pers. This doesn't change the amount of perks given to subscribers. It doesn't add perks to F2Pers. It is, quite clearly, distinct and totally separate from the monthly fee. Yes, you could go F2P for the month that the expansion comes out, and pay less that month than the subscribers...

 

...but you'll be getting less, too.

 

For the $25 that they spend just that month, subscribers get up to 12 characters on a server, unlimited WZs, unlimited FPs, $5 worth of Cartel Coins (thus, immediately offsetting the cost), unlimited med probes, unlimited access to Artifacts, three crew skills, 50 GTN slots....

 

If you don't care about those things, then its fine. Then the subscription isn't for you. But don't claim that subscribers are being hosed. They're getting their money's worth, explicitly, just in monetary value that's handed to them. Then, they have a bunch of perks loaded on top of that.

 

Do the math. No, actually do the math rather than just thinking with your emotions. Subscribers still get more stuff for less money. Whether there's value in that is up to you and how you like to play the game.

[opriv]

This is horrible math. This is the sort of math/statistics abuse that scam artists and crappy journalists use.

 

Subscribers pay a monthly fee. For that fee, they get a large collection of perks over F2Pers. End of story. That cost is spent getting those perks.

 

The expansion costs $10 for subscribers and $20 for F2Pers. This doesn't change the amount of perks given to subscribers. It doesn't add perks to F2Pers. It is, quite clearly, distinct and totally separate from the monthly fee. Yes, you could go F2P for the month that the expansion comes out, and pay less that month than the subscribers...

 

...but you'll be getting less, too.

 

For the $25 that they spend just that month, subscribers get up to 12 characters on a server, unlimited WZs, unlimited FPs, $5 worth of Cartel Coins (thus, immediately offsetting the cost), unlimited med probes, unlimited access to Artifacts, three crew skills, 50 GTN slots....

 

If you don't care about those things, then its fine. Then the subscription isn't for you. But don't claim that subscribers are being hosed. They're getting their money's worth, explicitly, just in monetary value that's handed to them. Then, they have a bunch of perks loaded on top of that.

 

Do the math. No, actually do the math rather than just thinking with your emotions. Subscribers still get more stuff for less money. Whether there's value in that is up to you and how you like to play the game.

 

Sorry bro, what freaking perks are you talking about? I paid for the game in boxed form and in 2 consecutive six month subscriptions. Unlimited warzones were not a perk, they were part of the standard features of the game.

 

They waited until after us early access six month subscribers had just renewed to announce FTP. Many of us have been biding out time ever since. If your attitude is the prevailing attitude of bioware, they will never get my business again.

[Shingara]

This is horrible math. This is the sort of math/statistics abuse that scam artists and crappy journalists use.

 

Subscribers pay a monthly fee. For that fee, they get a large collection of perks over F2Pers. End of story. That cost is spent getting those perks.

 

The expansion costs $10 for subscribers and $20 for F2Pers. This doesn't change the amount of perks given to subscribers. It doesn't add perks to F2Pers. It is, quite clearly, distinct and totally separate from the monthly fee. Yes, you could go F2P for the month that the expansion comes out, and pay less that month than the subscribers...

 

...but you'll be getting less, too.

 

For the $25 that they spend just that month, subscribers get up to 12 characters on a server, unlimited WZs, unlimited FPs, $5 worth of Cartel Coins (thus, immediately offsetting the cost), unlimited med probes, unlimited access to Artifacts, three crew skills, 50 GTN slots....

 

If you don't care about those things, then its fine. Then the subscription isn't for you. But don't claim that subscribers are being hosed. They're getting their money's worth, explicitly, just in monetary value that's handed to them. Then, they have a bunch of perks loaded on top of that.

 

Do the math. No, actually do the math rather than just thinking with your emotions. Subscribers still get more stuff for less money. Whether there's value in that is up to you and how you like to play the game.

 

First subscribers who have been constant subscribers from the start not only paid for a box copy of the game but have also paid subscriptions from then till now. We were told just before f2p was announced and just before the 6 month sub rotation was about to hit that makeb was a none expansion peice of content.

 

That wasnt advertised at some back water event or in some out of the way website, that was at E3. A F2P player now can get the entire game plus the expansion for $20, not pay a penny more and stay prefered until makeb hits then go onto subscription once they are max level and wish todo operations, and that is the only thing they are barred from.

 

Also do not try and blame subscribers for the fact that the f2p is far from f2p and more fremium forcing people into subscription. The restrictions are hardly a killer either, as i know plenty of people who are getting around the restriction by having multiple f2p accounts and simply upgrading the f2p account with the cheap as chips digital delux purchase for £3 for the main and have 1 char per account.

 

 

So you do the math, multiple free per month or 1 sub with 12 chars, ponders ponders. Also the coins we get, totally useless.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Shingara

[Oggthebase]

This is horrible math. This is the sort of math/statistics abuse that scam artists and crappy journalists use.

 

Subscribers pay a monthly fee. For that fee, they get a large collection of perks over F2Pers. End of story. That cost is spent getting those perks.

 

The expansion costs $10 for subscribers and $20 for F2Pers. This doesn't change the amount of perks given to subscribers. It doesn't add perks to F2Pers. It is, quite clearly, distinct and totally separate from the monthly fee. Yes, you could go F2P for the month that the expansion comes out, and pay less that month than the subscribers...

 

...but you'll be getting less, too.

 

For the $25 that they spend just that month, subscribers get up to 12 characters on a server, unlimited WZs, unlimited FPs, $5 worth of Cartel Coins (thus, immediately offsetting the cost), unlimited med probes, unlimited access to Artifacts, three crew skills, 50 GTN slots....

 

If you don't care about those things, then its fine. Then the subscription isn't for you. But don't claim that subscribers are being hosed. They're getting their money's worth, explicitly, just in monetary value that's handed to them. Then, they have a bunch of perks loaded on top of that.

 

Do the math. No, actually do the math rather than just thinking with your emotions. Subscribers still get more stuff for less money. Whether there's value in that is up to you and how you like to play the game.

 

the "perks" you're mentionning only became bargaining chips because Bioware decided to monetize them. Before F2P they were included in the subscription PLUS content updates PLUS new operations and flashpoints and events.

But obviously your memory span is so short that you forgot what you had two months ago and that Bioware now makes you pay.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Oggthebase

[Malastare]

Sorry bro, what freaking perks are you talking about? I paid for the game in boxed form and in 2 consecutive six month subscriptions. Unlimited warzones were not a perk, they were part of the standard features of the game.

 

The context was "perks over F2Pers". Don't remove things from context in arguments. Those "perks" are the features you get for paying the same subscription you have been paying since the start. F2Pers get less than subscribers.

 

We were told just before f2p was announced and just before the 6 month sub rotation was about to hit that makeb was a none expansion peice of content.

 

I understand and I'm not unsympathetic. However, I am realistic, and this is a lesson that I learned that everyone has to learn some time: You weren't guaranteed that Makeb was a free content update. You were told that they were planning on releasing it as a content update. That's not a promise or a guarantee. If it was, it would be legally actionable. It's not. They announced their plans at the time. Plans change. Your subscription doesn't give you the right to be part of their decisions, nor does it give you a guarantee of perfectly accurate guesses about the future. Your subscription pays for access to the game, not for membership in the development team or inside information.

 

Is it disappointing? A bit. However, this is far from the first time I've seen this, and pretty much every major gaming studio has done it at some point. It's hard to be outraged after seeing it so many times. So, your lesson today is this: Nothing is official until you've paid money for it or you've received official notification from a legally-filtered source. Second lesson: E3 and PAX are not official sources. You should take announcements at E3 and PAX as hopes and general plans and little more.

[Malastare]

the "perks" you're mentionning only became bargaining chips because Bioware decided to monetize them. Before F2P they were included in the subscription PLUS content updates PLUS new operations and flashpoints and events.

 

...and subscribers still get all of those. Perhaps you forgot about Section X and the new WZ that were just released recently?

[Kazaganthis]

...and subscribers still get all of those. Perhaps you forgot about Section X and the new WZ that were just released recently?

 

Perhaps you forgot these "perks" are all incredibly cheap and sitting on the GTN for F2P'ers to do a few dailies and just buy? Hell they can even join a guild, get a friend who plays buy them and just pay them back as their credit cap allows. its really not hard to circumvent and it just cheapens these "perks" we subscribers get.

[ShepardSpock]

Once you realize that Bioware and EA don't care about you, then you will know this is nothing new.

[Malastare]

its really not hard to circumvent and it just cheapens these "perks" we subscribers get.

 

Then maybe that's the model you should adopt. I actually like the fact that players can choose between subscription and F2P. It means that they can pick which one better suits them. The fact that other people can get some of the abilities subscribers has doesn't mean those abilities are worthless. Their value --from the very start-- was defined by how much you were willing to pay for them. I don't see how some other person having or not having them has any effect at all on how much they are worth to me.

 

I guess if you're looking for subscribers to have something that makes them feel elite or special, then you might be out of luck.

[DorkTrooper]

If this is the case, then why don't the subscriber add their 14.99 onto that 9.99 and see that the active subscriber is definitely paying more than the F2P person.

 

Yes, subscribers pay more than free players, hence the terms. Subscribers also have full access to endgame. The 15.99 isn't just for Makeb.

[Spoletta]

Perhaps you forgot these "perks" are all incredibly cheap and sitting on the GTN for F2P'ers to do a few dailies and just buy? Hell they can even join a guild, get a friend who plays buy them and just pay them back as their credit cap allows. its really not hard to circumvent and it just cheapens these "perks" we subscribers get.

 

I'm amazed...people whine that this f2p system is too restrictive but also that it is not enough. Really, nothing beats forums when you want a bit of drama. Just avoid it if you are looking for actual feedback.

[Kazaganthis]

Then maybe that's the model you should adopt. I actually like the fact that players can choose between subscription and F2P. It means that they can pick which one better suits them. The fact that other people can get some of the abilities subscribers has doesn't mean those abilities are worthless. Their value --from the very start-- was defined by how much you were willing to pay for them. I don't see how some other person having or not having them has any effect at all on how much they are worth to me.

 

I guess if you're looking for subscribers to have something that makes them feel elite or special, then you might be out of luck.

 

Because you took my comment to yours out of context. Dont sit here and say the value for subscribers is such a huge thing when its even easier for them to circumvent it and try to make it some special snowflake argument.

[Kazaganthis]

I'm amazed...people whine that this f2p system is too restrictive but also that it is not enough. Really, nothing beats forums when you want a bit of drama. Just avoid it if you are looking for actual feedback.

 

I know right? Kind of like how people dont read or know what the argument is about.

[Spoletta]

I know right? Kind of like how people dont read or know what the argument is about.

 

Luckily i don't see anyone like that around right now.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Spoletta

[Nemmar]

Honestly... how many more threads are you gonna make about this?

 

Here is the thing: If you had a full fledged expansion you would probably get 4 planets and pay 40 for it. You get 1/4th of that and 1/4th of the price. Also add to that that the new talents and abilities will expand your gameplay for hundreads and hundreads of hours and the new gear will give you something new to aim for in end-game.

 

Stop beeing cheap. You are not getting robbed for this, its a fair price for what you're getting.

 

Also, you pay a sub to have free acess to the game with no restrictions and free acess to all content patches. RotHC is not a patch, its an expansion pack, therefore we pay for it just like on every other sub based MMO. Why dont you go QQ to WoW because they charge their customers 40 for an expansion even though they already pay a sub. In the month the thing comes out they pay 53 euros for it with the same logic. Seriously... stop trolling.

[Malastare]

Because you took my comment to yours out of context. Dont sit here and say the value for subscribers is such a huge thing when its even easier for them to circumvent it and try to make it some special snowflake argument.

 

You seem to want to make me into your enemy. People on forums like to assume that anyone who doesn't agree with them is a zealot for the opposition. This is a fallacy.

 

I'm neutral on this. You have two option: Subscriptions or Free-to-Play. Pick whichever one suits you. If you look at the subscription and say: "I can buy everything I want on the GTN or with a few bucks on the CM" then the F2P model is the one for you. If you say: "Buying unlocks on the GTN and monthly passes on the CM is super annoying" then the Subscription model is the one for you. Or: Pick whichever is cheaper for your playstyle. Or: Pick whichever one gives you more stuff for you money. Or: Pick whichever one lets you spend the most time playing the things you like most.

 

I just don't see the point in complaining about the value of a subscription when you have options now. If you don't see value in it, then don't do it and more power to you. I certainly won't try to say you made the wrong choice.

 

I may, however, point out that your choice and your opinion of value are not absolute, and anyone who says that a Subscription has little value or that F2P is pointless is guilty of projecting their own opinions on others. People can decide if they think a subscription is worth while. They can decide if switching to F2P is a better fun-for-the-money choice. I'd just rather that they make that decision with facts rather than emotional arguments. And yet, if that's how they want to choose, I'll live with that, too.

[opriv]

The context was "perks over F2Pers". Don't remove things from context in arguments. Those "perks" are the features you get for paying the same subscription you have been paying since the start. F2Pers get less than subscribers.

 

 

 

I understand and I'm not unsympathetic. However, I am realistic, and this is a lesson that I learned that everyone has to learn some time: You weren't guaranteed that Makeb was a free content update. You were told that they were planning on releasing it as a content update. That's not a promise or a guarantee. If it was, it would be legally actionable. It's not. They announced their plans at the time. Plans change. Your subscription doesn't give you the right to be part of their decisions, nor does it give you a guarantee of perfectly accurate guesses about the future. Your subscription pays for access to the game, not for membership in the development team or inside information.

 

Is it disappointing? A bit. However, this is far from the first time I've seen this, and pretty much every major gaming studio has done it at some point. It's hard to be outraged after seeing it so many times. So, your lesson today is this: Nothing is official until you've paid money for it or you've received official notification from a legally-filtered source. Second lesson: E3 and PAX are not official sources. You should take announcements at E3 and PAX as hopes and general plans and little more.

 

Saying Perk is like saying that I am getting something special as an added bonus. This is not the case. I subscribed. If I subscribe to a magazine, it is not a perk to get that magazine in the mail.

 

I never expected Makeb to be free, despite them telling us that. Frankly, I disbelieved them. They are a company in trouble. However, their choice to charge for it is also causing me to NOT renew my subscription.

 

They have decided, in my case, that trying to get 10 bucks out of me is worth more than my six month subscription. It's cool, Im really not bitter. I am glad they let me know now as opposed to later. I can at least cancel ahead of time this round. If the game comes around, I'll be back. If not, I'll have saved hundreds of dollars (family accounts).

[RaulTheConquerer]

I've got a sub and preordered prior to launch. Yeah, actually paid for the game. Free-2-play paid for nada. Don't misunderstand, I support the free-2-play model, but being one of the many that helped line the coffers at launch, I would like a little something for my troubles.

 

Give me a free expansion and we call it even (Makeb may have been existing content anyway right?). No, I was not impressed by the measly, mostly useless preorder crystal and "Founder" title. How does anyone get excited about that kind of thing?

As a note, i do like the new +41 Yellow- black crystal, but I had to pay for em. 250k = Cartel pack.

 

Without the core players this title would be dead in the water. That shiny new F2P revolving door wouldn't save it. You don't miss us until we are gone.

Edited December 24, 2012 by RaulTheConquerer

[Shingara]

I understand and I'm not unsympathetic. However, I am realistic, and this is a lesson that I learned that everyone has to learn some time: You weren't guaranteed that Makeb was a free content update. You were told that they were planning on releasing it as a content update. That's not a promise or a guarantee. If it was, it would be legally actionable. It's not. They announced their plans at the time. Plans change. Your subscription doesn't give you the right to be part of their decisions, nor does it give you a guarantee of perfectly accurate guesses about the future. Your subscription pays for access to the game, not for membership in the development team or inside information.

 

Is it disappointing? A bit. However, this is far from the first time I've seen this, and pretty much every major gaming studio has done it at some point. It's hard to be outraged after seeing it so many times. So, your lesson today is this: Nothing is official until you've paid money for it or you've received official notification from a legally-filtered source. Second lesson: E3 and PAX are not official sources. You should take announcements at E3 and PAX as hopes and general plans and little more.

 

Actualy the major flaw in your point is this, as soon as a dev states something as a fact at news events, game events or any other events directed at paying customers and says something as a given then to change that is false advertising. This was at a time when they were trying to get back the 1.3-1.7 million people they had lost and tobe fair they pulled alot of people back with this.

 

Not only that they stopped alot of people leaving of which at that time we were in a content draught, ow yes we may have had legacy of which we had 2 patchs but we had very little else and broken operations.

 

We as subscribers by default paid and paid in full i say the development and implimentation of the free to play system, EA and Bioware didnt pay for it, thats for sure. Our box sales and our Subcsriptions paid for that. We had the content that was meant to be delivered this year pushed back because of free to play, which we as subscribers paid to be developed and implimented.

 

And let me leave you with this. The standing on if this was going to be in the cartel shop for f2p was set way way way far back as the item, which is a cartel market item was datamined and can be found on the darth hater database under rise of the hutt cartel, go on look it up, and they still charge subscribers for it ontop of subscription because this is nothing more then a money grab.

 

With that hickman will have known exactly how this was going to work long long ago, i wouldnt be shocked if this choice was made when the doctors left, it could even be one of the reasons they left and why all the other people left or were pushed. He has sat through 2 Q&A sessions, videoed sessions, 3 interviews and he hasnt dared tell us this would be charged to subscribers because he knew if he did nearly every old subber that came back would never have upped to sub from premium and that a vast bulk of the active subs would drop there subs as soon as he said it.

 

And can i point this out, hickman to this day has not said this would cost subscribers anything, ow no he simply stuck the price on the website and has not been seen since. This is underhand, possibly illegal and if not it is most definatly a con on a massive scale.

 

But as there are people here who seem to think this is totally fine for an mmo, they wont change and we can probably count the months to when this becomes Warhammer MK2, with the 'we see no evil' suddenly wondering where everyone went. And this game will simply be seen as the best free single player with multiplayer bonus rpg out there to pick up, complete at your own pace and then simply drop it.

 

Now alot will see me as a hater, but im not, i love playing the game but that doesnt mean i love being played.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Shingara