Current returns from expertise and primary stats

[L-RANDLE]

You forgot the +39 endurance and +0,53% crit in your math.

 

And the PVE guy makes more dmg, if both attack the same enemy.

 

PVE Arm > PVP Arm

Math > you

 

Thank you Dari...

[L-RANDLE]

Yes math is greater than me, that is the only analysis we can agree upon Smash..., but actually I would down you in a DPS race..... because I have +410HP. How does that 40HP swing look now? I won't quote you Smash to save room, but again it goes back to that same, tired argument about damage in and out which "shows"' its not as good.

 

That analysis/argument never includes the difference in END or crit ratings. Or PvP medpak scaling, or talent scaling... Sure you might be hitting me for more points on the exchange you showed, but I got a bigger HP pool to make up for it... So we are right back to square one.... Its about the same..... I always contend EXP is questionable at best since myself and others operate at these lower numbers and see very little difference, and improvement in some.

 

 

My one piece example.... it shows I have more potential to damage you... regardless of what your numbers are...

 

I wish this thread existed a couple weeks ago. Then I wouldn't have wasted the money on a couple PvE armorings, heh.

 

It's not that it lacks value, but certainly not enough to justify the cost for PvP. Ah well, I'm going back to full expertise again. Thanks Smash.

 

Yes they are expensive if you buy them off the GTN, but you could sell Molecular Stabilizers to offset the cost.......

 

If you got WH arm/mods/enh you don't use, RE them and sell the Stabs for 180,000EA...... OR, RE them and send them to a cyber to craft the armorings you need. That's what I did, since I was mostly min/maxed already... I had a TON of WH pieces leftover across two toons. Sold 48 stabs on the GTN and used 12 for my 3 pieces of 27 armorings.... Ended up netting about 8Mil and 3EA Might 27 Armorings in about 2 hours of work(had to move all the mods to my Cyber alt which took some investment and time, but it was worth it). I actually saved time as opposed to trying to get the EWH armoring.

[DaedalusV]

Your personal mitigation and defense has no bearing on how much damage someone who guards you takes. When someone attacks a guarded target, the damage is split evenly and two rolls are done separately as if two attacks occurred. One for you and your mitigation, and one for the tank and his.

 

But like someone said earlier, the healing boost from exp affects how much you're healed for because it directly eats into trauma, and that is partly why exp > all.

 

You're correct, and I think you misunderstand my point.

 

My tank buddy extends my HP pool by a huge amount by throwing guard on me. That makes endurance less favourable for me to stack.

There's nothing you can switch out (outside crystals) for a 1:1 ratio between a useful stat and expertise.

I still want the expertise mitigation on what ever damage is left (after guard splits it up)

I could use more main stat, but I can't get it without taking too big a hit on my expertise (since I get both end and main stat in lower numbers than the 50 expertise I give up)

 

I consider switching my crystals from time to time.

[islander]

Yes they are expensive if you buy them off the GTN, but you could sell Molecular Stabilizers to offset the cost.......

 

If you got WH arm/mods/enh you don't use, RE them and sell the Stabs for 180,000EA...... OR, RE them and send them to a cyber to craft the armorings you need. That's what I did, since I was mostly min/maxed already... I had a TON of WH pieces leftover across two toons. Sold 48 stabs on the GTN and used 12 for my 3 pieces of 27 armorings.... Ended up netting about 8Mil and 3EA Might 27 Armorings in about 2 hours of work(had to move all the mods to my Cyber alt which took some investment and time, but it was worth it). I actually saved time as opposed to trying to get the EWH armoring.

 

Oh hey, I had no idea. Thanks for the tip!

[L-RANDLE]

Oh hey, I had no idea. Thanks for the tip!

 

It also helped that I had a Scavanger and a UWT(I got a 400 Cyber, but not the pattern), for the other mats, but all can be bought off the GTN, and probably cheaper than buying the finished product off the GTN.. If you go to your server forum, you should be able to find a friendly Cyber to hook you up... I gave mine 200k for doing it, even though he would have done it for free...

 

Here is the recipe:

12 Durasteel(Scav/Open World)

12 Zal Alloy(Scav/Open World)

8 Mando Iron(UWT)

6 Molecular Stabs(WH RE)

2 Synthetic Enegy Matix(WH RE)

 

 

Good luck...

[Smashbrother]

You forgot the +39 endurance and +0,53% crit in your math.

 

And the PVE guy makes more dmg, if both attack the same enemy.

 

PVE Arm > PVP Arm

Math > you

 

Learn to read? I did mention the endurance, and that it's not worth it compared to the healing loss you get. WZs have healers last time I checked.

 

Also the .53% crit does not offset the damage difference. .53% crit is approximately .53% damage increase (if you have surge talents).

 

3596.14 - 3557.27 = 38.87

 

38.87/3557.27 = .011 or 1.1%

 

Math > you

Edited December 17, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Smashbrother]

Yes math is greater than me, that is the only analysis we can agree upon Smash..., but actually I would down you in a DPS race..... because I have +410HP. How does that 40HP swing look now? I won't quote you Smash to save room, but again it goes back to that same, tired argument about damage in and out which "shows"' its not as good.

 

That analysis/argument never includes the difference in END or crit ratings. Or PvP medpak scaling, or talent scaling... Sure you might be hitting me for more points on the exchange you showed, but I got a bigger HP pool to make up for it... So we are right back to square one.... Its about the same..... I always contend EXP is questionable at best since myself and others operate at these lower numbers and see very little difference, and improvement in some.

 

You're extra hp is not better than the healing you get from more expertise. Last time I checked, WZs have healers.

 

Nobody cares what you and your friends "feel" about how well expertise does. If we're going on "feelings", than me and my friends who use full expertise always dominate everyone all the time in pvp, AND we didn't waste 3+ million. But guess what? Nobody cares about anyone's feelings, they just want cold hard math.

 

So either how some actual math that pve armorings are better, or ****.

 

 

 

My one piece example.... it shows I have more potential to damage you... regardless of what your numbers are...

 

The epitome of all that is Fox News and what is wrong with the world today.

 

I don't like what your math says, but I have no math of my mine, so I'm just going to plug my ears and go "lalalalalalalala".

Edited December 17, 2012 by Smashbrother

[L-RANDLE]

Which is exactly the point Smash.. The math works on both sides of the argument. It's vey situational, but I trust that my PvP medpak is there for me 100% of the time. Are healers? Even in ranked?

 

I tank and solo guard nodes alot... Healers are not always present for it to actually matter, so at the end of the day, I take the damage potential and better scaling on my talents/medpak. No healer can match my tank heals over two globals, while in combat, even when they are present. I am sure they appreciate the fact that I can hit 16K+ heals on a PvE armoring build, and take the pressure off of them..

Edited December 17, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[cashogy]

Which is exactly the point Smash.. The math works on both sides of the argument. It's vey situational, but I trust that my PvP medpak is there for me 100% of the time. Are healers? Even in ranked?

 

I tank and solo guard nodes alot... Healers are not always present for it to actually matter, so at the end of the day, I take the damage potential and better scaling on my talents/medpak. No healer can match my tank heals over two globals, while in combat, even when they are present. I am sure they appreciate the fact that I can hit 16K+ heals on a PvE armoring build, and take the pressure off of them..

 

you PvP medpack has a 90 second cooldown.

 

there are ALWAYS healers in ranked pvp. if not, you are 100% bad.

 

and show me a group that attacks the tank over the healer, and ill show you more bads. using PvE armoring instead of PvP ones is fine for derping around as a pug. but *do not* try to argue that it is even remotely smart to do in organized, competitve PvP

[Smashbrother]

Which is exactly the point Smash.. The math works on both sides of the argument. It's vey situational, but I trust that my PvP medpak is there for me 100% of the time. Are healers? Even in ranked?

 

I tank and solo guard nodes alot... Healers are not always present for it to actually matter, so at the end of the day, I take the damage potential and better scaling on my talents/medpak. No healer can match my tank heals over two globals, while in combat, even when they are present. I am sure they appreciate the fact that I can hit 16K+ heals on a PvE armoring build, and take the pressure off of them..

 

What math? You've shown no math besides the completely wrong crap you posted earlier in this thread that ignored trauma, which changes all your conclusions.

 

The 410 difference in HP means you get an extra 143.5 hp when you use your medpac which has a 90s cd AND can only be used once per combat. Whoopdee****ingdoo, 143.5 hp every 90s.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Smashbrother

[L-RANDLE]

you PvP medpack has a 90 second cooldown.

 

there are ALWAYS healers in ranked pvp. if not, you are 100% bad.

 

and show me a group that attacks the tank over the healer, and ill show you more bads. using PvE armoring instead of PvP ones is fine for derping around as a pug. but *do not* try to argue that it is even remotely smart to do in organized, competitve PvP

 

Do you agree that orange belts/bracers with PvE armorings are BiS in PvP? If so, why the pungent opposition to what I am proposing because you are lowering your EXP number to do that?

 

Have people actually tried this in Ranked? Nopers.... so running around in pugs and reporting back, as I am doing, has more credibility from the start. My performance is based on my class and skill level, and my performance will not improve if I carry more EXP. PuGs are a great way to get an idea what your potential performance is in Ranked. The same rules apply. and yes, sometimes in a Ranked match a healer is not available 100%, they are not healing you and only you 100% of the time....

 

I see many other ranked players with EXP hovering around 1100-1200, and I am a bit below that, but I'm a hybrid tank so...

 

 

I carry 920EXP right now, so which is more likely:

1. I am leet, intentionally nerfing myself, playing an OP'd hybrid tank, that can beat WH Maras with a 400EXP deficit.

2. I am lying and get train stomped by recruits since their EXP is higher than mine.

3. I am right and there is virtually no difference between exp and main/end when comparing tiers....

 

 

<---- not calling you guys trolls, but awaiting the troll responses.... its ok... troll away....

[L-RANDLE]

What math? You've shown no math besides the completely wrong crap you posted earlier in this thread that ignored trauma, which changes all your conclusions.

 

The 410 difference in HP means you get an extra 143.5 hp when you use your medpac which has a 90s cd AND can only be used once per combat. Whoopdee****ingdoo, 143.5 hp every 90s.

 

but every little bit matters right?

 

Just flamin' ya Smash....

[cashogy]

Do you agree that orange belts/bracers with PvE armorings are BiS in PvP? If so, why the pungent opposition to what I am proposing because you are lowering your EXP number to do that?

 

Have people actually tried this in Ranked? Nopers.... so running around in pugs and reporting back, as I am doing, has more credibility from the start. My performance is based on my class and skill level, and my performance will not improve if I carry more EXP. PuGs are a great way to get an idea what your potential performance is in Ranked. The same rules apply. and yes, sometimes in a Ranked match a healer is not available 100%, they are not healing you and only you 100% of the time....

 

I see many other ranked players with EXP hovering around 1100-1200, and I am a bit below that, but I'm a hybrid tank so...

 

 

I carry 920EXP right now, so which is more likely:

1. I am leet, intentionally nerfing myself, playing an OP'd hybrid tank, that can beat WH Maras with a 400EXP deficit.

2. I am lying and get train stomped by recruits since their EXP is higher than mine.

3. I am right and there is virtually no difference between exp and main/end when comparing tiers....

 

 

<---- not calling you guys trolls, but awaiting the troll responses.... its ok... troll away....

 

you will be taking ~5% more damage from people with =<1100 expertise, and will do 5% less damage to those same people. that is a net loss of 10% effectiveness

 

no one has tried this in ranked b/c it means voluntarily putting yourself at a disadvantage.

 

pugs are NO measure of what you can do in ranked. in ranked your opponents know what they are doing, know how to beat you, and know how to work as a team. i play a merc. against pugs i can easily put up 400k damage and not die once. in ranked, i am lucky to pass 200k and not die 10 times. performance against pugs means absolutely nothing.

[L-RANDLE]

you will be taking ~5% more damage from people with =<1100 expertise, and will do 5% less damage to those same people. that is a net loss of 10% effectiveness.

 

Nope...

I deal more damage to them. If I swapped all 9 pieces; gain around 9%+ higher attack ratings(+crit, +medpak, +talents) .

 

They deal 5% more damage to me, but I have 5%+ more HP.

 

A net +4%+ effectiveness against a WH if you want to talk about Damage I/O.

 

People don't do it in Ranked WZ because virtually no one has even tried it in non-ranked... It still boils down to blind faith that EXP is "better" because BW said so and big numbers look good on paper.....

 

A paraphrase from a healing run from Midichlorian:

"EXP must not be working for me because I see no real difference between playing in my BH gear versus my WH gear. My burst was actually better and I hit the standard benchmarks for Sage healers when I had no clue what I was actually doing"

 

 

Wish I could find that old thread, but that's powerful bro.... It's not a troll... This thread is on a similar path..

 

Just try it in a PuG and see if it has any weight.... you might me surprised...

[franknelson]

You caught me.... I'm a trollllooooo. I have no skill, but I can +-*/, so my "skill" is based on giving myself the best possible stats in PvP since its based on ......stats.... and trust me, they probably were not in PvE gear and more than likely not in recruit either(you do know most WH HPs are in the neighborhood of 19k right?).

 

Also your "example" is you as a SENT... Should I speak on that?

 

Do that with a DPS BM Sage and I might be impressed.

Just further justifies my stance since the EXP difference between recruit and BM is even lower

 

So basically you missed or choose to ignore most of what I said and decided to focus on me calling you a troll.

Yes my example is a sentinel and a sentinel who runs Watchman spec and not the lolsmash spec so keep your OP comments to yourself. The increase hps that can be done to you and the increased dmg mitigation is a huge part of why someone in full wh is easier to keep up than someone in recruit not the 3-3.5k hp that is there...

[cashogy]

Nope...

I deal more damage to them. If I swapped all 9 pieces; gain around 9%+ higher attack ratings(+crit, +medpak, +talents) .

 

They deal 5% more damage to me, but I have 5%+ more HP.

 

A net +4%+ effectiveness against a WH if you want to talk about Damage I/O.

 

People don't do it in Ranked WZ because virtually no one has even tried it in non-ranked... It still boils down to blind faith that EXP is "better" because BW said so and big numbers look good on paper.....

 

A paraphrase from a healing run from Midichlorian:

"EXP must not be working for me because I see no real difference between playing in my BH gear versus my WH gear. My burst was actually better and I hit the standard benchmarks for Sage healers when I had no clue what I was actually doing"

 

 

Wish I could find that old thread, but that's powerful bro.... It's not a troll... This thread is on a similar path..

 

Just try it in a PuG and see if it has any weight.... you might me surprised...

 

you seem to think that you can change all 9 pieces from PvP gear (w/ expertise) to PvE gear (no expertise) and still be only 5% expertise deficient?

LOL. you will be ~20% expertise deficient with 9 piece replaced. which means you take 20% more damage, and receive 20% more.

 

 

 

you receving 5% more damage per attack is not canceled out by 5% more health. assuming 20,000 health, +5% is an additional 1,000 health. which is less than half of one typical crit attack, meaning you are barely gaining an additional GCD as far as survivability goes. and in conjunction with taking 5% more damage, you are likely gaining nothing. at the same time youre damage is reduced by 5% against the same opponent, giving them a distinct advantage over you. as far as Damage I/O is concerned, you are still down a net of 10%.

 

blind faith? LOL. take full team of PvE geared opponents against a full team of PvP geared opponents, tell me how that goes

 

anecdotal evidence means nothing btw.

[Smashbrother]

but every little bit matters right?

 

Just flamin' ya Smash....

 

Not at the expense of doing less damage, taking more damage, and getting less heals. If you could just gain 410 hp w/o giving up anything, go ahead.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Smashbrother]

 

Have people actually tried this in Ranked? Nopers.... so running around in pugs and reporting back, as I am doing, has more credibility from the start. My performance is based on my class and skill level, and my performance will not improve if I carry more EXP. PuGs are a great way to get an idea what your potential performance is in Ranked. The same rules apply. and yes, sometimes in a Ranked match a healer is not available 100%, they are not healing you and only you 100% of the time....

 

I see many other ranked players with EXP hovering around 1100-1200, and I am a bit below that, but I'm a hybrid tank so...

 

 

I carry 920EXP right now, so which is more likely:

1. I am leet, intentionally nerfing myself, playing an OP'd hybrid tank, that can beat WH Maras with a 400EXP deficit.

2. I am lying and get train stomped by recruits since their EXP is higher than mine.

3. I am right and there is virtually no difference between exp and main/end when comparing tiers....

 

 

<---- not calling you guys trolls, but awaiting the troll responses.... its ok... troll away....

 

You are the biggest troll ever. You say one thing and then contradict yourself a paragraph later.

 

And your craptacular anecdotal evidence doesn't mean jack ****.

 

If you take two premades that are completely equal in everything except one side has full expertise, while the other side is using pve armorings. The side with full expertise will win always. I've already shown the math.

 

You're just being stubborn and thinking pve armorings are better simply because you don't want to realize that you wasted 3+ million to make your character *******r. But keep running with 900 exp. I enjoy smashing baddies faces in WZs.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Smashbrother

[L-RANDLE]

you seem to think that you can change all 9 pieces from PvP gear (w/ expertise) to PvE gear (no expertise) and still be only 5% expertise deficient?

LOL. you will be ~20% expertise deficient with 9 piece replaced. which means you take 20% more damage, and receive 20% more..

 

@ Cash

I was actually reffering to armorings/barrels/hits. 9EA of those in a few combinations depending on Class...

I know your 20% looks that way because that is what your stat monitor says, but understand. Attacks in this game follow a similar fundemental formula in Physics:

 

F=ma

 

where F = attack rating, m=main and a=EXP

if you increase a by a similar amount that you decrease m, F stays the same....

 

 

@Cash & Smash

Smash says I have not done the math, which is true. I didnt show it because I have done it ad naseum, but here it is again.... With pics.... :eek: im in the buff too for all the LADIES!!! Val Venus style....

 

 

Here I am in 100% PvE belt, BiS DG armoring BiS DG Mod :

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTORDG.png

Force Sweep Rating: 531

 

Here I am in 100% PvP belt; EWH armoring BiS PvP mod:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOREWH.png

Force Sweep Rating: 515*1.0198= 525.197

 

Now picture this over all pieces... Do you still think I will be at a "deficit" if I did this type of trade over all pieces where you would get a 20%+ increase as stated on the stat screen?

 

Hopefully this will bake your noodle enough. Here is why PvE armoring+PvP mods/enh is BiS for PvP.

 

Here I am with BiS DG armoring +BiS PvP mod:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTORBiS.png

 

Force Sweep Rating: 528*1.0075= 531.96(1.2% greater than PvP gear)

 

 

So rough estimate is if you do this type of exchange over the 9 moddable pieces, its 9%. gain.

 

Your EXP number will be "low", but is actually BiS for PvP from the output perspective. This is why I keep saying carrying lower EXP numbers are benificial if you are doing this type of exchange because diminishing returns is not even taken into account in that analysis. The gap in output becomes larger, the more pieces you do this type of swap. This also does not take into account the difference in crit rating, which amounts to about a 3% difference using my BiS build...

 

 

I am getting all the benefits of EXP without sacrificing Main/END. So the debate is whether EXP mitigation is better than END... HP talents and medpaks muddy up the situation further...

 

 

I am sorry, but the EXP advocates offer just as much anedoctal evidence as I do; e.g. in-game observations, with no actualt attempts to try what I am talking about. I actually have tried it with both high and low EXP numbers and found the sweet spot... It's between 900-1100 depending on role. I hope this is some non-anecdotal evidence to consider....

 

Otherwise, I give.... I'll just whistle to my own toon...

[Smashbrother]

@ Cash

I was actually reffering to armorings/barrels/hits. 9EA of those in a few combinations depending on Class...

I know your 20% looks that way because that is what your stat monitor says, but understand. Attacks in this game follow a similar fundemental formula in Physics:

 

F=ma

 

where F = attack rating, m=main and a=EXP

if you increase a by a similar amount that you decrease m, F stays the same....

 

 

@Cash & Smash

Smash says I have not done the math, which is true. I didnt show it because I have done it ad naseum, but here it is again.... With pics.... :eek: im in the buff too for all the LADIES!!! Val Venus style....

 

 

Here I am in 100% PvE belt, BiS DG armoring BiS DG Mod :

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTORDG.png

Force Sweep Rating: 531

 

Here I am in 100% PvP belt; EWH armoring BiS PvP mod:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOREWH.png

Force Sweep Rating: 515*1.0198= 525.197

 

Now picture this over all pieces... Do you still think I will be at a "deficit" if I did this type of trade over all pieces where you would get a 20%+ increase as stated on the stat screen?

 

Hopefully this will bake your noodle enough. Here is why PvE armoring+PvP mods/enh is BiS for PvP.

 

Here I am with BiS DG armoring +BiS PvP mod:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTORBiS.png

 

Force Sweep Rating: 528*1.0075= 531.96(1.2% greater than PvP gear)

 

 

So rough estimate is if you do this type of exchange over the 9 moddable pieces, its 9%. gain.

 

Your EXP number will be "low", but is actually BiS for PvP from the output perspective. This is why I keep saying carrying lower EXP numbers are benificial if you are doing this type of exchange because diminishing returns is not even taken into account in that analysis. The gap in output becomes larger, the more pieces you do this type of swap. This also does not take into account the difference in crit rating, which amounts to about a 3% difference using my BiS build...

 

 

I am getting all the benefits of EXP without sacrificing Main/END. So the debate is whether EXP mitigation is better than END... HP talents and medpaks muddy up the situation further...

 

 

I am sorry, but the EXP advocates offer just as much anedoctal evidence as I do; e.g. in-game observations, with no actualt attempts to try what I am talking about. I actually have tried it with both high and low EXP numbers and found the sweet spot... It's between 900-1100 depending on role. I hope this is some non-anecdotal evidence to consider....

 

Otherwise, I give.... I'll just whistle to my own toon...

 

Holy **** you are the biggest piece of noob cake trollbait on the planet.

 

NOBODY is arguing that equipping pve gear gives you a bigger number on your tooltips over pvp gear because it does.

 

The problem lies in when you fight other people and expertise's effects take their toll. The tooltips do not reflect that at all, so you have to do math to figure out how much actual damage you're dealing. The math I posted earlier in the thread does exactly that and shows that swapping out pvp armorings for pve ones is a net loss in damage, mitigation, and healing while gaining a negligible amount of HP.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Smashbrother

[L-RANDLE]

Holy **** you are the biggest piece of noob cake on the planet.

 

NOBODY is arguing that equipping pve gear gives you a bigger number on your tooltips over pvp gear.

 

The problem lies in when you fight other people in pvp and expertise's effects take their toll. The tooltips do not represent what happens at all. The math I did earlier does. Now please ****.

 

Take a pill bro.... Its has no baring on who I fight... I dont care who I fight.. WH or not. I have more potential in my BiS build.... is it really that hard to envision?

[Smashbrother]

Take a pill bro.... Its has no baring on who I fight... I dont care who I fight.. WH or not. I have more potential in my BiS build.... is it really that hard to envision?

 

It has EVERY bearing on who you fight. People in full expertise will rape your face. The end. You've clearly never done any competitive RWZs because the moment you walk into a RWZ with your lawl 900 exp, and face a team with 1300+ exp, you'd get raped. Nor do you have any higher brain functions if your argument for why pve armorings > pvp armorings is "Bro my tooltip is bigger with pve armorings so that means I must do more damage in pvp".

 

I'm done responding to your troll baits. The end and /ignored.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Smashbrother

[L-RANDLE]

It has EVERY bearing on who you fight. People in full expertise will rape your face. The end. I'm done responding to your troll baits.

 

Do recruits rape my face? The answer is no. Do WH rape my face. The answer is no... It all boils down to class and skill...... That's it...

 

 

If you got the gear, then try it..

 

This is why I laugh at people who think EXP is a problem in PvP.... You just took first place...

[cashogy]

@ Cash

I was actually reffering to armorings/barrels/hits. 9EA of those in a few combinations depending on Class...

I know your 20% looks that way because that is what your stat monitor says, but understand. Attacks in this game follow a similar fundemental formula in Physics:

 

F=ma

 

where F = attack rating, m=main and a=EXP

if you increase a by a similar amount that you decrease m, F stays the same....

 

not sure what physics have to do with damage calculations. congrats for understanding basic algebra? not sure what you were going for there.....

 

and i assumed you meant replacing 9 pieces of gear. if you replace 9 armorings, you will lose out on 450 expertise. putting you at ~800. which is leaving you with ~15% expertise damage/defense bonus. compared to the average WH geared played who has 20-22%. you are 5-7% expertise deficient.

 

and you do not seem to understand that the rate at which expertise increases your damage I/O is much higher than the rate at which primary stat increases damage.

 

@Cash & Smash

Smash says I have not done the math, which is true. I didnt show it because I have done it ad naseum, but here it is again.... With pics.... :eek: im in the buff too for all the LADIES!!! Val Venus style....

 

 

Here I am in 100% PvE belt, BiS DG armoring BiS DG Mod :

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTORDG.png

Force Sweep Rating: 531

 

Here I am in 100% PvP belt; EWH armoring BiS PvP mod:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOREWH.png

Force Sweep Rating: 515*1.0198= 525.197

 

Now picture this over all pieces... Do you still think I will be at a "deficit" if I did this type of trade over all pieces where you would get a 20%+ increase as stated on the stat screen?

 

Hopefully this will bake your noodle enough. Here is why PvE armoring+PvP mods/enh is BiS for PvP.

 

Here I am with BiS DG armoring +BiS PvP mod:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTORBiS.png

 

Force Sweep Rating: 528*1.0075= 531.96(1.2% greater than PvP gear)

 

 

So rough estimate is if you do this type of exchange over the 9 moddable pieces, its 9%. gain.

 

 

you do not seem to realize that the damage in the tooltip does not reflect your expertise bonuses.

 

your damage is still reduced by at least 5% against other players. and you are taking at least 5% more damage from those same players.

 

 

Your EXP number will be "low", but is actually BiS for PvP from the output perspective. This is why I keep saying carrying lower EXP numbers are benificial if you are doing this type of exchange because diminishing returns is not even taken into account in that analysis. The gap in output becomes larger, the more pieces you do this type of swap. This also does not take into account the difference in crit rating, which amounts to about a 3% difference using my BiS build...

 

I am getting all the benefits of EXP without sacrificing Main/END. So the debate is whether EXP mitigation is better than END... HP talents and medpaks muddy up the situation further...

 

I am sorry, but the EXP advocates offer just as much anedoctal evidence as I do; e.g. in-game observations, with no actualt attempts to try what I am talking about. I actually have tried it with both high and low EXP numbers and found the sweet spot... It's between 900-1100 depending on role. I hope this is some non-anecdotal evidence to consider....

 

Otherwise, I give.... I'll just whistle to my own toon...

 

you are making your tooltip damage look nice, that is all. expertise bonus is not reflected in tooltip damage numbers.

 

you are taking more damage, doing less damage.

 

not sure what your fascination is with the WZ medpack. yeah it will heal for a larger number, but it still heals for 35% of your health. so if i have 10,000 out of 20,000 health, the medpack will heal me from 50% health to 85% health.

[L-RANDLE]

My calcs do account for EXP bonus... What did I miss? Take my calcs and use your own EXP mitigation bonus on each... Edited December 18, 2012 by L-RANDLE