RazielHex Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 You never played Warhammer Online then. WAAAAY more linear. Yes and no, because there were asynchronous paths of advancement in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Yes and no, because there were asynchronous paths of advancement in the story. Exactly. Even a spaceship corridor game become less linear when you can CHOOSE the corridors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielHex Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Exactly. Even a spaceship corridor game become less linear when you can CHOOSE the corridors. But that's the thing. It wasn't personalized, and most of the players didn't care about what happened. A majority rarely quested outside of T1. I finished both the Empire and the Da'wi (every single chapter, every single quest), and I can say up and down the streets in how compelling Mythic wrote it (especially in Chapter 3 High Pass/Talabecland) but no one will sympathize. It wasn't the draw of the game. Yeah, there's no asynchronous paths of advancement here, but that allows there to be a threaded class story that is personalized to the player. Asynchronous leveling opportunities mean people skip content. They miss out. The relative speed of leveling up is already high enough that this is already an issue. Edited December 9, 2012 by RazielHex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleryk Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 but you realize that the flying mounts have destroyed WoW. The developers have even said that as it allows players to bypass massive amounts of content. Which took 6 years to do post-launch. Cool. You replied to my post without at least trying to understand it. I did not say flying mounts in Azeroth were a good thing. I did NOT say that it had them at launch. I did -NOT- say that I want them in TOR either. If you read the comment I quoted, or the previous one(it was a part of conversation with Nala), you would've noticed that she asked about MMO that lets you fly to anywhere you want and I answered with WoW as an example. I do not play WoW. I do not like it and Blizz makes me hate it even more ever since WotLK's endgame with every next idea that rapes the WarCraft lore. I don't want to be rude, but please, read the whole post before commenting on it, so you don't end up in same situation next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asbalana Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Ok, let's compare apples with apples. The initial zones of two MMORPG. The first one will be TOR. The second one will be ''that certain game'' Starting zones of TOR. Tython Ord Mantell Korriban Nal Hutta Starting zones of ''that certain game'' (never played Horde in ''that certain game'') Elwynn Forrest-Westfall Teldrassil-Darkshore Dun Morogh-Loch Modan Azuremethyst Isle-Bloodmist Isle Tython : a relatively open valley for the most part, but the mountains to the West are very corridor-like Ord Mantell : several wide areas, but a lot of indoor fight (by definition very unopen) and a lot of very thight areas on the coast Korriban : Horribly unopen IMO, altough very atmospheric.To be honest, most of it is fighting is in tombs Nal Hutta : the swamp is quite open. Elwynn-Westfall : with the exception of a small lake to the North, perfectly open Teldrassil Darkshore : Darkshore is a bit hard to navigate at time because of ti's North South flow, altough it was adressed in CATA. Dun Morogh-Loch Modan : The lake was a navigation obstacle, but changed in CATA. Ironically, despite being mountains, only an handful of mountain paths. Azure-Blood : some mountains with dubious paths, and one annoying final zone, quite open now. To anyone who has played both games the difference is clear and stark. The "other game" offers exploration, free (to a high degree) roaming to gather mats, player choice of path to approach quests as well as multiple possible quest areas to level, day / night cycles, weather, multitudes of critters that move about, and so on. The freedom is a key element in the game experience and makes replayablity much greater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Also, people, I would like to point out an anoying thing. Whatever the way you think about it, WOW is much less linear than TOR. In TOR, you are basically forced to go on every single planet, and in the same order despite permutations In WOW, leveling in dungeons is quite possible. AND there is at the very least a choice of zones to go. If you start from the scratch, you can level on Kalimdor or Azeroth. You can perfectly well do Elwynn then Westfall, or Elwynn then Redridge. The only instance of a zone you are positively forced to do are starting zones in BC and MOP. And even there, after those zones, you have choise (Zangar or Terrokar ?) (Four Winds or Kassarang ?) Having the choice between two zones make a game LOOKs way less linear. I really don't understand why people think you have to do anything on each planet other than your class story? At that point you have several choices for how to level: PvP, space missions, skipping some planets and doing others, Flashpoints. All viable ways to level, I've done it. You people are doing it to yourself. If you don't want a 'linear' experience, then don't follow the path. Find your own. It's not impossible, you just have to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielHex Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Cool. You replied to my post without at least trying to understand it. I did not say flying mounts in Azeroth were a good thing. I did NOT say that it had them at launch. I did -NOT- say that I want them in TOR either. If you read the comment I quoted, or the previous one(it was a part of conversation with Nala), you would've noticed that she asked about MMO that lets you fly to anywhere you want and I answered with WoW as an example. I do not play WoW. I do not like it and Blizz makes me hate it even more ever since WotLK's endgame with every next idea that rapes the WarCraft lore. I don't want to be rude, but please, read the whole post before commenting on it, so you don't end up in same situation next time. A better example would be the late City of Heroes, or AION and Champions Online that let you literally *fly* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinzual Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 A better example would be the late City of Heroes, or AION and Champions Online that let you literally *fly* AION's flight was utter garbage compared to City of Heroes. It was like a minute long and only in certain areas and even then just for getting crafting materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbosa Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Every mmo is linear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edzew Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 But that's the thing. It wasn't personalized, and most of the players didn't care about what happened. A majority rarely quested outside of T1. I finished both the Empire and the Da'wi (every single chapter, every single quest), and I can say up and down the streets in how compelling Mythic wrote it (especially in Chapter 3 High Pass/Talabecland) but no one will sympathize. It wasn't the draw of the game. Yeah, there's no asynchronous paths of advancement here, but that allows there to be a threaded class story that is personalized to the player. Asynchronous leveling opportunities mean people skip content. They miss out. The relative speed of leveling up is already high enough that this is already an issue. having a more open world to explore would slow down leveling i would think.. well for some people anyways. right now im so bored with the stupid story i want to just go off for a while and see what there is to see... but there isnt much to see. in wow i leveled a lot slower than my friends because i would just go off and explore instead of working on quests. in this game there just isint much room to explore and so far there isnt much to see when you do go explore I really don't understand why people think you have to do anything on each planet other than your class story? At that point you have several choices for how to level: PvP, space missions, skipping some planets and doing others, Flashpoints. All viable ways to level, I've done it. You people are doing it to yourself. If you don't want a 'linear' experience, then don't follow the path. Find your own. It's not impossible, you just have to try. you are totally missing the point, its not about leveling at all its about being confined to a small place with very few options in direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaRoamer Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 you are totally missing the point, its not about leveling at all its about being confined to a small place with very few options in direction You said in another thread you were only level 22, this isn't true of all the planets. Have you even been to Tattooine yet? Hoth is completely open as well. The starter planets are small and obviously the city planets are mostly corridors but there is lots of room for exploration on a planet like Belsavis or Alderaan. I'm not saying the exploration is on par with something like Guild Wars 2 which is the only thing I like about that game but it's not as narrow as you're claiming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahl Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) I agree with the OP to be perfectly honest. It amazes me that so many people complained about the space game being on rails, and yet so few people complained about the main part of game being just the same! Now certainly, the main part of the game isn't AS bad as space, but it's still not great. Besides the largely closed nature of the planetscapes you also have the fact that almost nothing actually goes on IN world. Everywhere is instanced, even the dam planet you are on. You dont see people gathered at 'workshops' because you can craft while you level, the cantina's are empty because there really is no reason to go to them,you cant even have a seat, you never see any action because all the PvP is instanced...the place is just devoid of life! And you have to pay for EVERYTHING with a TON of credits.......you can't even get your char' to LOOK the way you want to unless you grind out those social points! SwtOR may well have a short lifespan, but it's not because the game itself is bad, it's because it's gameworld is rubbish. Edited December 9, 2012 by Jahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edzew Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 You said in another thread you were only level 22, this isn't true of all the planets. Have you even been to Tattooine yet? Hoth is completely open as well. The starter planets are small and obviously the city planets are mostly corridors but there is lots of room for exploration on a planet like Belsavis or Alderaan. I'm not saying the exploration is on par with something like Guild Wars 2 which is the only thing I like about that game but it's not as narrow as you're claiming. soooo 4 of the 17 planets are nice wide open areas?? and no i havnt been on any of the ones you listed but even still all the planets should have some exploration, not just corridors or lil small areas. That is one of the biggest problems with the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurmez Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 that's what a theme park mmo is like........ I also disagree, to draw on the theme park analogy a little, in other games you are pretty much free to walk around and choose which ride you want to go on and at what time, swtor is more like the monorail from the parking lot to the entrance to the theme park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) I dont know that I have ever played an MMO that is so linear as SWTOR. You really can't explore much because the planets are actually "hallways" that you cant really divert from. Is this bad gaming design? Or, a product of the HeroEngine? SWTOR feels more like a single player game to me. I mean we shouldn't have expected much more considoring Bioware is not an MMORPG company and never was. I guess we got what we should have expected from this inexperinced group of developers. They are not as linear as you believe. Being a themepark style MMO, and with the breadcrumbs being very deliberate and linear, it makes you feel like the planets are very linear. So, if you want to maximize XP for minimal effort, yes very linear. On the other hand, if you are genuinely more into exploring and freelance play, most of the planets can be experienced in a very non-linear manner. There are a few exceptions, like Coruscant... but they are exceptions and are generally at lower play levels when mobility via speeder is more limited for most. So really, feeling linearly locked in on the planets is only true if you simply want to get to 50 asap, or are unwilling to leave the established traffic routes. /2-cents Edited December 9, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atrimentus Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Also, people, I would like to point out an anoying thing. Whatever the way you think about it, WOW is much less linear than TOR. In TOR, you are basically forced to go on every single planet, and in the same order despite permutations . That is not true at all. The game doesn't force you go level in every planet. While you do have to visit the planets for class quests (which is fine), leveling in those planets is optional. I went to Balmorra just to do my brief quests and moved on to Nar Shadda. I could've done the same with Tatooine and gone right ahead to Alderaan after doing the class quest. It's entirely possible that you could skip these planets and use a combination of pvp, space, flashpoints to level up. From what I can remember it's pretty much like WoW does it where you have different options to go about leveling. Edited December 9, 2012 by Atrimentus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaRoamer Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 soooo 4 of the 17 planets are nice wide open areas?? and no i havnt been on any of the ones you listed but even still all the planets should have some exploration, not just corridors or lil small areas. That is one of the biggest problems with the game. Those are called examples. Do I have to literally go through every single planet in the game? Voss is huge too. So is Corellia. Do I have to go on? Except for Quesh the planets get bigger as you go and you get access to faster speeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Also, people, I would like to point out an anoying thing. Whatever the way you think about it, WOW is much less linear than TOR. In TOR, you are basically forced to go on every single planet, and in the same order despite permutations In WOW, leveling in dungeons is quite possible. AND there is at the very least a choice of zones to go. If you start from the scratch, you can level on Kalimdor or Azeroth. You can perfectly well do Elwynn then Westfall, or Elwynn then Redridge. The only instance of a zone you are positively forced to do are starting zones in BC and MOP. And even there, after those zones, you have choise (Zangar or Terrokar ?) (Four Winds or Kassarang ?) Having the choice between two zones make a game LOOKs way less linear. LOL, seriously are you retarded. WoW is big time Linear as many other modern MMO's but the difference is at least when I start a new character I have 7 different stories to play which make it much less linear than WoW the 2nd, 3rd time and so on around. This game has a lot to explore and half the people that come play are not even aware of DATACRONS/LORE OBJECTS but great Troll post. Freaking hilarious and get real dude. Edited December 9, 2012 by Asturias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielHex Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 soooo 4 of the 17 planets are nice wide open areas?? and no i havnt been on any of the ones you listed but even still all the planets should have some exploration, not just corridors or lil small areas. That is one of the biggest problems with the game. No man, the planets get exponentially more expansive as you level through them. Tatooine, Alderaan, and Hoth are absolutely huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 LOL, seriously are you retarded. WoW is big time Linear as many other modern MMO's but the difference is at least when I start a new character I have 7 different stories to play which make it much less linear than WoW the 2nd, 3rd time and so on around. This game has a lot to explore and half the people that come play are not even aware of DATACRONS/LORE OBJECTS but great Troll post. Freaking hilarious and get real dude. Have you read my point ? I'm saying ''at the very least, in WOW, you can choose between zones'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 No man, the planets get exponentially more expansive as you level through them. Tatooine, Alderaan, and Hoth are absolutely huge. If you think Tatooine or Alderaan are "absolutely huge" you would explode if you ever saw the Karanas of Norrath. When planets can fit inside territories or towns of other games, "huge" is not an apt word for any zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Alderaan is quite a large planet, but it's incredibly unlinear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurmez Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 No man, the planets get exponentially more expansive as you level through them. Tatooine, Alderaan, and Hoth are absolutely huge. and yet have remarkably little in them in terms of content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 What's stopping you? Usually the walls, visible or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritinblack Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 If you think Tatooine or Alderaan are "absolutely huge" you would explode if you ever saw the Karanas of Norrath. When planets can fit inside territories or towns of other games, "huge" is not an apt word for any zone. I have to laugh when I see posts like this. Brings up so many good memories. About half the people who play MMOs now have NO idea. P.S. Thank you for the memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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