Gear is partially to blame for tank shortage

[Godlymuppet]

It is not gear. It is you. LTP. A tank only needs on set of gear and what is already in game is fine. Not one tank in my giuld has an agro or taunt issue. Nor has any tank ive played with so far. Other than me or another dps doing uber damage which is normal on trash. Bosses i have not had much of an issue since i use my aggro dumps properly and watch my dps at certain points in fights.

 

I have at no point said I struggle to tank. So where are you getting that its a learn to play issue? Oh I get it your just being offensive, nice.

 

Now back to the point. People seem to think this would flood the lfg with bad tanks. Well until people try tanking how will they know if they enjoy it or are good at it. That pyro over ther could be an amazing tank and lo e it to bits, but before he. An try his luck he has to farm an entirely new set of gear, as he would get ripped to shreds for not having full tank gear. Now try farming a full set of tank gear while queuing as Dps, that's gonna take you a few weeks at least. Now the issue is that needi g different gear to tank or Dps creates a barrier to even tryi g out tanking.

 

Now I'm sure that all you tanks were born knowing you wanted to tank and would be good at it. But unless we let people try we can't assume that they would all be bad tanks.

[Andryah]

Being a tank you need 2 totally different sets of gear if you want to do any dps at all and healers have it to a slightly lesser extent.

 

You jumped the shark right here IMO.

 

It's not that you do not do "any" DPS so stop exaggerating. It IS true that with a tank set of gear, you will not out-DPS a DPS spec/gear character that has been optimized for maximum dps. But so what? A tank, doing a dps role when not needed to tank is fine and does not need to be epeen in the dps list for an encounter.

 

It sounds to me like you want to be epeen as a Tank OR epeen as a DPS with a tanking class character. That's not going to happen. Character play requires trade-offs, you cannot be all things. You make choices in this MMO like every other MMO. If you want to optimize for Tank or DPS on the fly, then you carry two sets of gear with different "off-stats" and respec accordingly. OR.... spec and gear primarily as a Tank and accept that if you go DPS, you will still contribute but you will not top the dps for an encounter, which should be fine for everyone else.

 

And if you are out doing your solo thing in game..... tank with a dps companion. It's all you need to do.

[Mazikeen]

I agree with you, but I would like one more skill for taunts. There is nothing as frustrating when both of em are on cooldown and you hear someone getting hit.

 

If all your taunts on CD and your DPS is getting hit, you either have a boss that has a wonky threat table (they exist), you suck as a tank, or your DPS are morons. If you suck, no extra taunts will help. If the boss has a wonky threat table, you're supposed to fight it differently. If your DPS suck, let them die.

 

And tanks do not have a gear issue. You have specific gear to tank and specific gear to DPS. Letting tanks use DPS gear tot ank will not only result in cries of 'tanks are OPed because they can DPS AND tank' but also lead to more tanks that have no idea what they're doing and pop their tank stance just for a faster queue

 

Real tanks work for the gear, crunch the numbers and deal with the mobs

[Andryah]

If all your taunts on CD and your DPS is getting hit, you either have a boss that has a wonky threat table (they exist), you suck as a tank, or your DPS are morons. If you suck, no extra taunts will help. If the boss has a wonky threat table, you're supposed to fight it differently. If your DPS suck, let them die.

 

Sage advice. Especially the part about letting low intellect DPS take regular dirt naps.

[MasterKayote]

heh, sorry OP but your entire argument goes down the drain when you realize there is no dual specs in TOR. Some may go through the troouble of respeccing, some may even have another set for DPSing but most dont.

[Godlymuppet]

You jumped the shark right here IMO.

 

It's not that you do not do "any" DPS so stop exaggerating. It IS true that with a tank set of gear, you will not out-DPS a DPS spec/gear character that has been optimized for maximum dps. But so what? A tank, doing a dps role when not needed to tank is fine and does not need to be epeen in the dps list for an encounter.

 

It sounds to me like you want to be epeen as a Tank OR epeen as a DPS with a tanking class character. That's not going to happen. Character play requires trade-offs, you cannot be all things. You make choices in this MMO like every other MMO. If you want to optimize for Tank or DPS on the fly, then you carry two sets of gear with different "off-stats" and respec accordingly. OR.... spec and gear primarily as a Tank and accept that if you go DPS, you will still contribute but you will not top the dps for an encounter, which should be fine for everyone else.

 

And if you are out doing your solo thing in game..... tank with a dps companion. It's all you need to do.

 

Why should it require trade offs when that sniper over there can use the same gear for all 3 specs? Give me a real reason WHY?

 

Are you disputing that needing one set of gear would make having a character that could tank or Dps make the game more accessible to people? (As not everyone has the time to grind multiple sets of gear or characters, some People like to play one character) thats my point.

 

Just because it has always had a trade off in the past does not mean it should never be changed.

[FooBard]

Trying to dual spec tank/dps in this game is not a good idea.

 

Choose which role you want your toon to play and just go with it.

 

That's my .02

[Godlymuppet]

Trying to dual spec tank/dps in this game is not a good idea.

 

Choose which role you want your toon to play and just go with it.

 

That's my .02

 

So your saying enforce a restriction? WHY?

 

With field respec and free respects for subscribers, the restriction is gear based. WHY should it exist?

[Xatasha]

The reason you have so few tanks and healers is

 

The player base treats them like red headed step children. No one has fun getting attacked by slightly retarded DPS players

[Godlymuppet]

heh, sorry OP but your entire argument goes down the drain when you realize there is no dual specs in TOR. Some may go through the troouble of respeccing, some may even have another set for DPSing but most dont.

 

You do know about field respec and free respecs for subscribers right? Thats like infinite specs if you understand it. But as a tnak my gear is only good for one of my 3 specs, a PDS has gear good for 3 specs.

 

I could understnd people saying chosse a roll and stick with it if that is what the classes did, but the classes all have 2 dps and 1 tank trees. Maybe if they did a classs with 3 tank trees that would be fine for a stick to you roll argument, but they have not done that.

[FloppyRabbit]

all tanks are fine tbh except juggs. Juggs need a rework in immortal tree, 31 pointer is pretty useless.

[Mazikeen]

Why should it require trade offs when that sniper over there can use the same gear for all 3 specs? Give me a real reason WHY?

 

Snipers DPS. That's it. They don't heal, they don't tank, they DPS.

Tanks can tank. Tanks can also DPS.

Healers heal. Healers can also DPS.

 

Do you see my logic here?

[Mazikeen]

...but the classes all have 2 dps and 1 tank trees

 

IAs get to tank? Since when?

And when did Warriors get to heal?

 

Yeah, you have no valid argument. Quit while you can.

[Godlymuppet]

Snipers DPS. That's it. They don't heal, they don't tank, they DPS.

Tanks can tank. Tanks can also DPS.

Healers heal. Healers can also DPS.

 

Do you see my logic here?

 

But no they can't. Not unless they spend extra time grinding out extra gear. Remove that part and your statement is then true.

[FooBard]

So your saying enforce a restriction? WHY?

 

With field respec and free respects for subscribers, the restriction is gear based. WHY should it exist?

So..... get another set of gear and quit complaining?????

 

Nothing stopping you from doing this mate.

 

They are NOT going to redesign the gear specs... and I don't want them to. I'm happy with my sheidl spec shadow... If I want to DPS. I use Sentinal/Trooper/Scoundrel (soon to be GS instead of scoundrel).

Edited December 7, 2012 by FooBard

[Mazikeen]

With field respec and free respects for subscribers, the restriction is gear based. WHY should it exist?

 

So tanks and DPS don't have to fight one another for gear. Ever see a DPS Merc fight a tank PT for gear? Not unless one or both were total tools. Why does this have to be explained?

[Mazikeen]

But no they can't. Not unless they spend extra time grinding out extra gear. Remove that part and your statement is then true.

 

You would astound me if I hadn't given up on humanity years ago.

 

If we have dual roles, we grind two gear sets.

If we have ONE role, we grind one set of gear.

Your example was a Sniper. Which has one role. So they only need one set of gear. Derpderp

[Godlymuppet]

IAs get to tank? Since when?

And when did Warriors get to heal?

 

Yeah, you have no valid argument. Quit while you can.

 

Your seriously claiming that you didn't understand that I was on about tank classes?

 

Your just arguing semantics. You then even went on to suggest that I claimed warriors had a heal tree, when i said nothing of the sort lol. If your going to go the route of pointing out mistakes. You better make sure what you say is flawless.

[ItchyThePenguin]

So your saying enforce a restriction? WHY?

 

With field respec and free respects for subscribers, the restriction is gear based. WHY should it exist?

 

It should exist because Tanking and DPSing are two very different roles requiring two very different stat priorities. Further, I don't really feel that there is a gear restriction here. I don't think I quite understand what you mean by that. It doesn't matter what your role is -- you're going to need gear to be able to take on different Flashpoints and Operations.

[FooBard]

I also wanted to say...

 

Be HAPPY, and I mean DAMN HAPPY that there isn't a HEALING spec set of gear.

 

The infield respec option is really only useful for DPS/Heals.

 

This game is gear based (really, what game isn't), so I don't really have a problem with it. If they'd done it differently from the beginning, I'd say OK. But there's no urgent need to completely "change" it now.

 

Game has way to large of a list of things to make it better than this.

 

Again, .02

[Godlymuppet]

So tanks and DPS don't have to fight one another for gear. Ever see a DPS Merc fight a tank PT for gear? Not unless one or both were total tools. Why does this have to be explained?

 

Actually what you are saying couldn't be further from the truth. If there was no tanking gear and no alacrity gear, there would just be 4 sets, so your Dps would have a 1 in 4 chance of getting gear. As it is now you have less than 1 in 4 due to there being 11 sets currently. Also as it stands now if I want to Dps on my pt I'm gonna have to need the Dps gear as well as the tank gear, so your gonna get the shaft more from the current model.

[Mazikeen]

Your seriously claiming that you didn't understand that I was on about tank classes?

 

Your just arguing semantics. You then even went on to suggest that I claimed warriors had a heal tree, when i said nothing of the sort lol. If your going to go the route of pointing out mistakes. You better make sure what you say is flawless.

 

1. I never claimed you said Warriors could heal.

2. 'You better make sure' comes off as a threat, which coming from you makes me snicker a bit

3. I'm eating waffles right now, you are not

4. I understood exactly what you meant. But you're here whining about a base mechanic of a game that is using the same mechanic as most MMOs in the past decade-plus.

5. I'm a tank and have no issues with how the gear system is set up. In fact, I prefer it this way.

 

The root cause of this is gear (the playstyle to, but gear is definately contributing to this)

 

6. The root cause is more that people want to pewpew and steamroll dungeons instead of worrying about mechanics, responsibility for their teammates and being one of the anchors of a group/raid. If the tank dies, the group will wipe more often than not. If a single DPS dies, most fights won't miss a beat. In addition to this, until you hit HM/NM raids, you can DPS in subpar gear and no skill change. As a tank, you need to either have decent gear or the skill to make up for it.

7. Calling yourself 'Godlymuppet' does not make me want to take you seriously. At all.

[Godlymuppet]

I also wanted to say...

 

Be HAPPY, and I mean DAMN HAPPY that there isn't a HEALING spec set of gear.

 

The infield respec option is really only useful for DPS/Heals.

 

This game is gear based (really, what game isn't), so I don't really have a problem with it. If they'd done it differently from the beginning, I'd say OK. But there's no urgent need to completely "change" it now.

 

Game has way to large of a list of things to make it better than this.

 

Again, .02

 

I think we are actually starting to find some common ground. Multiple specs does work quite well for healers but currently not for tanks.

 

I know that's how the game is now. But I'm saying there could have been or could be alternative which gives that flexibility to tanks. I'm quite sure that model would have more people willing to try tanking.

[Kubernetic]

I have a hard time understanding. Why do I need 2 sets of gear? All I do is tank and raid and I do fine with 1 set. Why do I need a dps set? That what a dps is for. I don't care how much damage I'm putting out. I'm there to control the fight and keep the attention on me.

 

Because with so many people, different playstyles abound.

 

With my old guild, we'd have a number of raids where we didn't need 2 tanks except during the first fight, say on EV, and after the first fight, one of the tanks would switch to DPSing. Why go through the rest of the entire raid with substandard gear when you don't need the tanking gear anymore?

 

Any raid where an off-tank is used would be in the same situation. Either you switch to the DPS gear and get your DPS up and help clear the phases faster, or you stay in tank gear even though your group doesn't need you to be tanking anymore, doing less DPS as a result.

 

I kind of like the OP's idea. I think there should definitely be some penalty to switching, either in a time shift or something, so that you can't just fluidly roll into a tanking stance and then a dps stance without skipping a beat, but I see no reason to make it any more difficult than that.

 

Just my two cents.

[Mazikeen]

But I'm saying there could have been or could be alternative which gives that flexibility to tanks. I'm quite sure that model would have more people willing to try tanking.

 

There was an alternative. It has always existed. Rift, if I'm not mistaken, took this approach. Bioware chose not to. Deal with it. If you want to DPS, take the gear that the existing DPS do not need (if you're tanking) or ask at the beginning of the run if you can roll. Crap, I see a lot of new DPSers using the free set of Recruit PvP gear. FREE SET. Use the GTN. Credits are ridiculously easy to come by if you want them.