tbowen Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Just wondering if we will ever get WoW style arenas, simple 2v2-4v4 death matches. This has always been my favorite form of pvp. Getting together 8 people to do ranked is a pain, especially cuz you have to hope another group is doing the same. If they aren't you are SOL. Another issue with having Ranked Warzones as your only competetive pvp is that you don't allow us to create teams so we are restricted to basically doing it as a guild in most cases, which makes it even more difficult to PUG a rateds teams and/or to have enough people on from you guild to do it. Quick and dirty arena matches are fast with short queues (you have large numbers of groups that queue for them at any time), fun ( especially compared to pugging regular WZs even with a couple friends as you aren't forced to play with half a team that has no clue where the ball is much less how to pass it), more fun for people gearing up (You can match teams better based on their team arena rating), and more competetive and fun for those of us who are hardcore and already geared. Also it's a nice change of pace from WZs to have the only objective be to kill your enemies. All things considered, pvp is extremely lacking without this avenue and I don't know how much longer I'll continue playing without it. I've always been into competetive PVP and the lack of competition in this game is stifling and makes the game feel as stagnant as the untargetable NPCs you've got in most the tiny lvling hub towns. PLEASE CONSIDER ARENAS. IT WILL MAKE THIS GAME TRULY GREAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 a friend of mine who's way more into the pvp aspect of games than I am/was said he unsubbed RIFT as soon as they announced that they wouldn't do arenas. I'm not sure if saying this helps the push for arenas or just encourages the typical BW silence on the issue in hopes that not saying what ppl don't wanna hear will string them along a little longer. I wouldn't expect them any time in the next year, if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Problem with Areans is. You will actually have to know how to play your class and do it well in order to be good at them. 99% of the people playing this game can't do that. So the bad players will always say no to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOULCASTER Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Arena's while helpful, wont fix pvp in this game. They need OPEN WORLD (without companions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Problem with Areans is. You will actually have to know how to play your class and do it well in order to be good at them. 99% of the people playing this game can't do that. So the bad players will always say no to them. I will just say that class balance becomes increasingly more important the smaller the team, and this game is no where near balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenzali Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) I will just say that class balance becomes increasingly more important the smaller the team, and this game is no where near balanced. I agree, I like the variety that 8-man objective-oriented warzone gameplay brings. Once arena came to WoW, all the classes became horribly homogenized. Bring it down to a small deathmatch arena and you'd be forced to have certain classes. A recent 3v3 tournament on our server showed that having a sage healer and hybrid shadow tank was the best possible lineup with the third being either sentinel or focus guardian. This combination has the best CC - stealth mez, instant force lift, bubble stun, knockback root, aoe mez - the best mobility (for both escape tools and gap closers) - and the best damage output while still having a character in tank stance for guard not to mention some crazy survivability . A specialized class like Gunslinger would not thrive in this situation because their strength is area denial which is more important in objective-based settings, or perhaps a Merc which has minimal CC and no mobility boosts. So the developers would start homogenizing classes to balance around this extremely small setting until there's no longer anything interesting or unique. Edited November 11, 2012 by Jenzali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Arena's while helpful, wont fix pvp in this game. They need OPEN WORLD (without companions) This^. It should be BW's top priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Lol I love how you take my post about how the game isnt balanced and use it to show how it actually is kind of balanced. Well played sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warultima Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 To have a successful arena system classes have to be relatively balanced, class balance is one thing that SWTOR dont have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSabreth Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 This Game is not ballanced around Arena style pvp. If you think the nerfs are bad now in this game it will be much much worse if they had arena. Even Blizzard regrets putting arena in WOW. see the article. http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 This Game is not ballanced around Arena style pvp. If you think the nerfs are bad now in this game it will be much much worse if they had arena. Even Blizzard regrets putting arena in WOW. see the article. http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/ Glad someone brought this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I don't think people realize this game's engine can't support OWPvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbowen Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 I played wow competetively for 4+ years, balance was much worse in that game. And yes certain specs are better than others for arenas, just as certain specs are better for PVE than for PVP, nothing to QQ over and tweaks can be made where needed to classes/specs. Though I will say that when classes became homogenized in WoW that was the beginning of the end for me on that game, the moves in this game are already fairly similar so I dont believe they'd have to make them any more homogenized than they currently are. And world PVP is great...but it's not competetive, and much more difficult to implement in a fun, practical, and rewarding enough way that players will actually do it than it is to implement a few arenas. Please see Ilum. It was terribly implemented according to most people, it was never fun to run around in a circle collecting boxes for hours, and there was no ranking system and therefore no true competition. You lose a lot of PVPers without competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielHex Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I don't think people realize this game's engine can't support OWPvP. It can handle 50 vs 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbowen Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Oh and here is the quote from the article about one of the WoW guys thinking arenas were a mistake. Mind you this comes from a hardcore PVE guy, he is not a PVPer. "We really never designed WoW to be a competitive e-sports game; it was something that we decided to start tackling because there was such a desire and demand to evolve it in that direction, to introduce competitive arenas." Notice the desire and demand part? They knew that competition is what keeps a game fun. Without it you're just banging your head against a wall. He then goes on to say that it was the balancing that it took to make arenas work that they regretted. So, what can we take from that comment? People like being able to compete, and it will take balance work. Not that it's a mistake because it makes a game less fun, quite the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Oh and here is the quote from the article about one of the WoW guys thinking arenas were a mistake. Mind you this comes from a hardcore PVE guy, he is not a PVPer. "We really never designed WoW to be a competitive e-sports game; it was something that we decided to start tackling because there was such a desire and demand to evolve it in that direction, to introduce competitive arenas." Notice the desire and demand part? They knew that competition is what keeps a game fun. Without it you're just banging your head against a wall. He then goes on to say that it was the balancing that it took to make arenas work that they regretted. So, what can we take from that comment? People like being able to compete, and it will take balance work. Not that it's a mistake because it makes a game less fun, quite the opposite. WE have a way to compete. It's called rated war zones. If you can't realize that arena in WoW was a constant balance issue then you're blind. It was stupid at all the buffs and nerfs that went on to the demand of the pvp'ers, who we all know aren't any MMO's main subscriber base, to ask blizzard to do the stupid **** they did. I'm all for arena's in this game... Given it doesn't become the **** fest that it did in WoW and it provides NOTHING but entertainment period, meaning all you get is a rating and no rewards from it. Maybe a title or something at the end of the season for being on top? A mount... something dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 It can handle 50 vs 50. No it can't lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSabreth Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I played wow competetively for 4+ years, balance was much worse in that game. And yes certain specs are better than others for arenas, just as certain specs are better for PVE than for PVP, nothing to QQ over and tweaks can be made where needed to classes/specs. Though I will say that when classes became homogenized in WoW that was the beginning of the end for me on that game, the moves in this game are already fairly similar so I dont believe they'd have to make them any more homogenized than they currently are. And world PVP is great...but it's not competetive, and much more difficult to implement in a fun, practical, and rewarding enough way that players will actually do it than it is to implement a few arenas. Please see Ilum. It was terribly implemented according to most people, it was never fun to run around in a circle collecting boxes for hours, and there was no ranking system and therefore no true competition. You lose a lot of PVPers without competition. ROFL @ World pvp being great, its non exsistent at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 It can handle 50 vs 50. lolwut the hero engine can barely hand the 8v8 for wzs. the random bouts of lag that usually happen at least once a warzone are awesome not to mention that this game is built on a foundation that is at least 5 years old. 32bit, dx9 for the loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 WE have a way to compete. It's called rated war zones. If you can't realize that arena in WoW was a constant balance issue then you're blind. It was stupid at all the buffs and nerfs that went on to the demand of the pvp'ers, who we all know aren't any MMO's main subscriber base, to ask blizzard to do the stupid **** they did. I'm all for arena's in this game... Given it doesn't become the **** fest that it did in WoW and it provides NOTHING but entertainment period, meaning all you get is a rating and no rewards from it. Maybe a title or something at the end of the season for being on top? A mount... something dumb. Go look at the amount of views PvP players get compared to PvE players in WoW. The difference is LOL worthy when people say WoW isn't a PvP game. PvP = Makes an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSabreth Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Go look at the amount of views PvP players get compared to PvE players in WoW. The difference is LOL worthy when people say WoW isn't a PvP game. PvP = Makes an MMO. I love PVP, my main is a fully geared and augmented WH healer OP. i would be fooling myself if i thought that the "BULK MAJORITY" <== of players in most MMO'S including this one were pvpers. the bulk majoritys are PVER'S and i can assure you if their toons are constantly nerfed and played with at the expense of pvp they will take their wallets elsewhere, and we can all agree this game cant afford that to happen at this point. We have competition in this game right now its called rated wzs, which would be much more challageing than a death match between a FOTOM 4 vrs 4. if you want an over hyped duel then go to Illium and duel. im certain if you spammed general there youd have plenty of that, or better yet flag yourself and camp a faction area. there problem solved. Edited November 11, 2012 by DarthSabreth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) I love PVP, my main is a fully geared and augmented WH healer OP. i would be fooling myself if i thought that the "BULK MAJORITY" <== of players in most MMO'S including this one were pvpers. the bulk majoritys are PVER'S and i can assure you if their toons are constantly nerfed and played with at the expense of pvp they will take their wallets elsewhere, and we can all agree this game cant afford that to happen at this point. We have competition in this game right now its called rated wzs, which would be much more challageing than a death match between a FOTOM 4 vrs 4. if you want an over hyped duel then go to Illium and duel. im certain if you spammed general there youd have plenty of that, or better yet flag yourself and camp a faction area. there problem solved. Lets see. This game had nearly 2 million people at launch. And now it's most likely barely pushing over 500k. It's been said a lot on these forums and other areas like Youtube and sub-forums that that only people left are pretty much Star Wars and/or PvE fans. So I'd be willing to bet that those 1.5 million players that are no longer player were somewhat PvP fans. Edited November 11, 2012 by AMKSED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 lolwut the hero engine can barely hand the 8v8 for wzs. the random bouts of lag that usually happen at least once a warzone are awesome not to mention that this game is built on a foundation that is at least 5 years old. 32bit, dx9 for the loss It may not be able to handle 50v50 on ilum with bases capping back and forth but i've done a few 20+v20+ in the black hole. So yeah GG. BTW it's not the engine it's self. It's BW's crappying coding they put on the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 It may not be able to handle 50v50 on ilum with bases capping back and forth but i've done a few 20+v20+ in the black hole. So yeah GG. BTW it's not the engine it's self. It's BW's crappying coding they put on the engine. So how is having a PvP limit in OWPvP making it OWPvP? Just seems like it would be a 20vs20 Warzone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Lets see. This game had nearly 2 million people at launch. And now it's most likely barely pushing over 500k. It's been said a lot on these forums and other areas like Youtube and sub-forums that that only people left are pretty much Star Wars and/or PvE fans. So I'd be willing to bet that those 1.5 million players that are no longer player were somewhat PvP fans. I know plenty of pve'ers who left because lack of or not callenging enough pve content. So you're wrong. Also aren't you the one who was calling nerfs on tankasin while back pedalling and keyboard turning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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