elliotcat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I've been reading this and was hoping somebody would say this. I mean, i dont want to stop you from making it and you can as, persay, a fanfiction that goes away from realism but my main concern is: Why are you asking for advice/criticism? From what i'm seeing people are trying to warn you about realism and i even saw some good ideas to fix that but you keep shooting all advice down. Like i said if you wanna make it sure but if you're not going to change your mind about any advice given to you, then asking for it is kind of pointless. Just my opinion. I agree...I mean, would you like advice? Because I think the changes people have suggested you make are really good ones. The concerns are legitimate and they have a serious potential to pretty much destroy your story. You don't seem like a horrible, beyond-all-help kind of writer. But if you're not willing to make suggested changes to make your story realistic in the universe you choose to write in, then there's no point in asking for people's thoughts. Just my $.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) I agree...I mean, would you like advice? Because I think the changes people have suggested you make are really good ones. The concerns are legitimate and they have a serious potential to pretty much destroy your story. You don't seem like a horrible, beyond-all-help kind of writer. But if you're not willing to make suggested changes to make your story realistic in the universe you choose to write in, then there's no point in asking for people's thoughts. Just my $.02. Well I said I could make some change such as the force sensitivity of Theron. I also gave my reason about why would I set character like this since we all played different classes' quest line. OK, people mostly dislike the Malgus&Satele, if you want me to put it away then do you have any advice to let Nox be able to lure Satele Shan to come to Imperial base by her own secretly, without any other Jedi? Edited November 7, 2012 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selentar Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Having written fan fiction myself, I would have to agree with the people who have replied. When writing a story, I try to write about my own characters, including major NPCs only if they play a part in the development of such story and, then again, said NPCs would be only 'used' after doing a bit of research. However, writing fiction about major, well established NPCs would make it a lot more difficult, personally speaking, as I would have to get my facts very straight unless I wanted to be shot down by the readers. As others have already mentioned, writing about Satele and Malgus will put a lot of boundaries to your story which is not always a good thing. As an example, take BW themselves. Why do you think they decided to create a game set during the Old Republic instead of using the usual setting (Obi-Wan, Luke, Han Solo, Darth Vader and the rest)? As they said themselves, it was a choice that allowed them a lot more freedom story wise. Of course there were also other reasons (copyrights, been there, done that) but purely from the point of view of the story, setting it thousands of years before the Skywalker saga, it allowed the writers to create something new without having to worry about incoherence and loose ends. But, if you want to go ahead with the plot you have in mind, I will certainly not try to stop you. You might, after all, come up with a good story. Time will tell, as they say. Just my 2 cents. Edited November 7, 2012 by Selentar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Having written fan fiction myself, I would have to agree with the people who have replied. When writing a story, I try to write about my own characters, including major NPCs only if they play a part in the development of such story and, then again, said NPCs would be only 'used' after doing a bit of research. However, writing fiction about major, well established NPCs would make it a lot more difficult, personally speaking, as I would have to get my facts very straight unless I wanted to be shot down by the readers. As others have already mentioned, writing about Satele and Malgus will put a lot of boundaries to your story which is not always a good thing. As an example, take BW themselves. Why do you think they decided to create a game set during the Old Republic instead of using the usual setting (Obi-Wan, Luke, Han Solo, Darth Vader and the rest)? As they said themselves, it was a choice that allowed them a lot more freedom story wise. Of course there were also other reasons (copyrights, been there, done that) but purely from the point of view of the story, setting it thousands of years before the Skywalker saga, it allowed the writers to create something new without having to worry about incoherence and loose ends. But, if you want to go ahead with the plot you have in mind, I will certainly not try to stop you. You might, after all, come up with a good story. Time will tell, as they say. Just my 2 cents. Well I'm quite opposite, I don't like original character unless no existing character could fit the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfino Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Well I'm quite opposite, I don't like original character unless no existing character could fit the role. But this is what you're doing. You're taking an established character and twisting and bending them to fill a desired role when it would be far simpler to create an original character who is a complete blank slate. Not only would this be simpler, but it wouldn't take a character with a canon established history/personality and shoot that to bits indiscriminately for the sake of filling a mold that didn't need filled by a canon character. Edited November 7, 2012 by irishfino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 But this is what you're doing. You're taking an established character and twisting and bending them to fill a desired role when it would be far simpler to create an original character who is a complete blank slate. Not only would this be simpler, but it wouldn't take a character with a canon established history/personality and shoot that to bits indiscriminately for the sake of filling a mold that didn't need filled by a canon character. So is it ok to let Satele Shan to have affair with some original Sith Lord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfino Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 So is it ok to let Satele Shan to have affair with some original Sith Lord? It doesn't make sense for Satele Shan to have an anything with a Sith Lord unless it's a fight. Satele's history and personality are already canon. Honestly, take two original characters, a Sith and a Jedi, and make them have their affair/relationship/one-night stand. Why does it have to be Satele Shan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 So is it ok to let Satele Shan to have affair with some original Sith Lord? If you've having to ask, the answer is going to be 'no'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 It doesn't make sense for Satele Shan to have an anything with a Sith Lord unless it's a fight. Satele's history and personality are already canon. Honestly, take two original characters, a Sith and a Jedi, and make them have their affair/relationship/one-night stand. Why does it have to be Satele Shan? Well she didn't choose to fight Scourge and supported someone who's worse than most of the Sith. Yes her character is canon, but different people could have different opinion on this character. Like I listed before, Satele Shan did work with Sith and permitted very wrongful act, so she is really not that stubborn. I don't think it's wise to say she would never do such thing. Anyway do you have any idea to let Satele go to Imperial base secretly, just by herself to meet Nox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfino Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Well she didn't choose to fight Scourge and supported someone who's worse than most of the Sith. Yes her character is canon, but different people could have different opinion on this character. Like I listed before, Satele Shan did work with Sith and permitted very wrongful act, so she is really not that stubborn. I don't think it's wise to say she would never do such thing. Anyway do you have any idea to let Satele go to Imperial base secretly, just by herself to meet Nox? You have obviously not played the Jedi Knight story, you have obviously done no research into her character, and you are content to do what you're going to do no matter what anyone says. I will say this: Satele Shan would not do any of the things you're trying to shove her into. Stop trying to force an already lore established character with a rich and detailed history into a mold she doesn't belong in. That's what original characters are for, not detailed figures like Satele Shan or Darth Malgus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) You have obviously not played the Jedi Knight story, you have obviously done no research into her character, and you are content to do what you're going to do no matter what anyone says. I will say this: Satele Shan would not do any of the things you're trying to shove her into. Stop trying to force an already lore established character with a rich and detailed history into a mold she doesn't belong in. That's what original characters are for, not detailed figures like Satele Shan or Darth Malgus. No I didn't but I watched some videos online, her action is understandable, Scourge is cruel Sith Lord but he was willing to help, the Jedi were facing a powerful common enemy and any aid would be good. Also she did support someone who's far worse than most of the Sith(maybe only the Emperor is more horrible than him in the cold war era). I believe the BH story is the same. So this shows she could put aside the hatred of the Sith if that's good for the Jedi Order and Republic, or it could hurt the Empire. She also did in the comic, she didn't listen to her master when she let her kill Darth Baras and Darth Angral. Edited November 7, 2012 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 The Sith Warrior kills Darth Baras and the Jedi Knight kills Darth Angral. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 The Sith Warrior kills Darth Baras and the Jedi Knight kills Darth Angral. What? Yes but I'm talking about the comic, it happened shortly after ToC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfino Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) No I didn't but I watched some videos online, her action is understandable, Scourge is cruel Sith Lord but he was willing to help, the Jedi were facing a powerful common enemy and any aid would be good. Also she did support someone who's far worse than most of the Sith(maybe only the Emperor is more horrible than him in the cold war era). I believe the BH story and the Foundry are the same. So this shows she could put aside the hatred of the Sith if that's good for the Jedi Order and Republic, or it could hurt the Empire. She also did in the comic, she didn't listen to her master when she let her kill Darth Baras and Darth Angral. No. No, no, no, no. The Bounty Hunter story line and the flash point The Foundry are no where near the same thing. I am now convinced you don't actually play this game, because you would know the warrior kills Baras and the Knight (the story you so desperately need to play to understand the Jedi and Shan) kills Angral. Do actual research, not just watch a few videos and decide that the information presented there is all there is to know. EDITED to reply: Yes but I'm talking about the comic, it happened shortly after ToC. Wookieepedia is a great source of all the canon information you need. Here's Darth Baras' article which refutes your claims of Shan killing him in a comic. It even has a neat little photo from the comic. Had Shan killed him (and it was considered canon) why would he show up in a game that is also canon-compliant? It's obvious you have no desire to put any real effort into your story to make sure it's canon compliant, despite claiming you care a great deal about canon. I'm not even sure why you're asking for advice at this point. Write your story and let this thread die, already. Edited November 7, 2012 by irishfino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) No. No, no, no, no. The Bounty Hunter story line and the flash point The Foundry are no where near the same thing. I am now convinced you don't actually play this game, because you would know the warrior kills Baras and the Knight (the story you so desperately need to play to understand the Jedi and Shan) kills Angral. Do actual research, not just watch a few videos and decide that the information presented there is all there is to know. How are those better than have sex with Malgus to create a child to strike down the Empire? I'm talking about the Threat of Peace comic(happened after ToC), Master Dar'Nala ordered Satele Shan to finish Darth Angral and Darth Baras but she refused because she found their master went to the Dark Side and was behind those conflict, she also let the 2 Sith Lords leave. Edited November 7, 2012 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 How are those better than have sex with Malgus to create a child to strike down the Empire? I'm talking about the Threat of Peace comic(happened after ToC), Master Dar'Nala ordered Satele Shan to finish Darth Angral and Darth Baras but she refused because she found their master went to the Dark Side and was behind those conflict, she also let the 2 Sith Lords leave. Letting a Sith Lord live to halt the fall of your Jedi Master to the Dark Side is NOT the same as shagging one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfino Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 How are those better than have sex with Malgus to create a child to strike down the Empire? I'm talking about the Threat of Peace comic(happened after ToC), Master Dar'Nala ordered Satele Shan to finish Darth Angral and Darth Baras but she refused because she found their master went to the Dark Side and was behind those conflict, she also let the 2 Sith Lords leave. Her making a child with a Sith makes no sense whatsoever, no matter the bunk reasoning you try to come up with. You obviously don't care what others have to say about you brutally murdering canon characters for some convoluted plot. Write your story and let this thread die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Letting a Sith Lord live to halt the fall of your Jedi Master to the Dark Side is NOT the same as shagging one. Yeah I'm just saying she's not some "YOU ARE SITH YOU MUST DIE" kind of character. And what about aiding someone who's worse than most of the Sith (at least the Sith in cold war era) and permit the battlemaster to frame crimes and launch "atrocious" operation to a bounty hunter? I've yet to hear a direct reply about the Foundry and BH story. Edited November 7, 2012 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Yeah I'm just saying she's not some "YOU ARE SITH YOU MUST DIE" kind of character. And what about aiding someone who's worse than most of the Sith (at least the Sith in cold war era) and permit the battlemaster to frame crimes and launch "atrocious" operation to a bounty hunter? I've yet to hear a direct reply about the Foundry and BH story. Does she know about Revan and the... chap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Does she know about Revan and the... chap? Well there are Jedi masters in the Foundry to help Revan do his work, HK-47 even showed the report to the enemy. She had to be responsible for aiding Revan and she should know about it. BH part is for sure, because Seros is the battlemaster under her command, without her permission it's impossible for him to frame the crime, let the Supreme Chancellor list them in the public channel and launch those operations. Think about it, she's the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, she could not say "Sorry I don't know" when a high rank member did such thing and numerous Jedi were aiding Revan with such a horrible plan. I'm not saying she or her Jedi Order is evil or as bad as Sith, just these showed she would allow some dirty or cruel plans if that could hurt the Empire. Edited November 7, 2012 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imnotawitch Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Yeah I'm just saying she's not some "YOU ARE SITH YOU MUST DIE" kind of character. And what about aiding someone who's worse than most of the Sith (at least the Sith in cold war era) and permit the battlemaster to frame crimes and launch "atrocious" operation to a bounty hunter? I've yet to hear a direct reply about the Foundry and BH story. I don't know a lot about the BH story and the Foundry, but even IF that small piece of your reasoning is correct, the rest of it is just plain wrong. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense. You can't just latch on to one piece of information that MIGHT be correct and say that all your ideas about canon are correct. Because they're not, they're just not. It's like giving a friend a barrel of apples where all of them except one are completely rotten, and then saying it's a good gift because of the one good apple. If you want to write a canon-compliant fic, one canon mishap is too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'm not saying she or her Jedi Order is evil or as bad as Sith, just these showed she would allow some dirty or cruel plans if that could hurt the Empire. But think about it: the Bounty Hunter, the winner of the Great Hunt, killed a Jedi Master (and his Padawan in some cases), represented a greater threat to the Republic for being part of the Mandolorains and was an easy goal. You remember the Dodgy Dossier fracas? It's pretty much the same thing, Satele could/would have been lied to over the threat the BH posed - with her attention directed at the war rather than at individual persons, fudging the information would have been easy. That and it wasn't personal - it doesn't require time or personal sacrifice. You're confusing the will to do some things to further a cause with the stupidity to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) I don't know a lot about the BH story and the Foundry, but even IF that small piece of your reasoning is correct, the rest of it is just plain wrong. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense. You can't just latch on to one piece of information that MIGHT be correct and say that all your ideas about canon are correct. Because they're not, they're just not. It's like giving a friend a barrel of apples where all of them except one are completely rotten, and then saying it's a good gift because of the one good apple. If you want to write a canon-compliant fic, one canon mishap is too much. It's not small pieces, imagine someone would support her pal to wipe out at least hundreds of billions(97.8% of the whole imperial population) of lives simply because they have Sith ancestry, and permit her men to do something that even the chancellor admitted "it's so bad", would you think it's just a small piece about this person's persona? Even most of the Sith in Cold War era never thought about wiping out so many lives simply because of bloodline. Again I'm not saying Satele Shan is evil, it just showed she would permit cruel actions or even genocide when it could hurt the Empire. Then why is she using Malgus to have a child and raise him as a powerful Jedi to take down the Empire out of her character? Also, if you don't agree it, then do you have an idea that could let Satele Shan agree to meet Nox by herself secretly? Edited November 7, 2012 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imnotawitch Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I can see how Satele isn't the nicest person, but it seems from what I know and what you've said that she hates the Sith, and would do anything to stop the empire. If that's the case, WHY would she have a child with a sith? If she wants a powerful force sensitive child, why not use another powerful Jedi? Also, her supporting Revan now makes no sense. If the father of her child was a Sith, her son would be killed too. Did you think of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 But think about it: the Bounty Hunter, the winner of the Great Hunt, killed a Jedi Master (and his Padawan in some cases), represented a greater threat to the Republic for being part of the Mandolorains and was an easy goal. You remember the Dodgy Dossier fracas? It's pretty much the same thing, Satele could/would have been lied to over the threat the BH posed - with her attention directed at the war rather than at individual persons, fudging the information would have been easy. That and it wasn't personal - it doesn't require time or personal sacrifice. You're confusing the will to do some things to further a cause with the stupidity to do anything. The Chancellor said Master Seros made it personal, that is exactly what he used to describe the case. Yes I see you understand she could ignore morality on individuals, then why is she using Malgus to have a child so bad and out of her character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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